Volunteering Abroad for 2 weeks worth anything

[Golden-Future]

Volunteering Abroad for 2 weeks worth anything.

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[SpoiledMilk]

Unless it is to save the world from nuclear annihilation, NOPE.

 

[Goro]

Volunteering Abroad for 2 weeks worth anything.

It's considered tourism.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

Depends on what you're doing.

Posters to spread awareness/give information on issues in the community? Sure
Building houses? Sure
Delivering babies in the bush? Very bad.

 

[begoood95]

https://www.aamc.org/download/47425...al-shadowing-experience-executive-summary.pdf

• Member schools expressed significant concern with regards to premedical students engaging in unsupervised clinical activities in international settings [emphasis added]. In particular, 45-50% of those schools completing the survey described applicant involvement in invasive procedures in international settings as either harmful to, or of no value to, their application. Examples of such invasive procedures include giving vaccinations, suturing an injury, pulling teeth, and delivering a baby. This concern of admissions officers persisted, albeit at lower levels (35-40% of respondents), when the students were supervised by a health professional while performing such invasive procedures in international settings.

• So also 55-50% of those schools completing the survey thought that these clinical activities were beneficial (assuming the other option in addition to "harmful to, or of no value to" was "beneficial to")...
• Also jeeze are there really organizations that let you deliver babies unsupervised???

I don't know. I file "is volunteering abroad useful" under controversial and don't take SDN as the final say.

...literally every interviewer (n=14) asked me about my experience abroad and in a positive light. Unless they were lying, I can't bring myself to believe that it hurt me.

Nevertheless, without more information we can't properly advise you.

 

[Catalystik]

Volunteering Abroad for 2 weeks worth anything.

It could be a nice cultural and language submersion adventure that mainly benefits you.

 

[Golden-Future]

I would be volunteering with the club Volunteers Around the World (VAW) and will be assisting/shadowing doctors. My main tasks will include taking blood pressure, vitals, etc (simple stuff, nothing extreme). Its a good experience for me to see healthcare in a 3rd world setting and what those people have to go through. It's definitely something that I always wanted to do. And, in the future, when I'm a doctor (knock on wood), I want to do volunteer abroad work, because there are so many people suffering with things that can be simply cured if they had the access to the resources we do.

I was just wondering if med schools would consider 2 weeks aboard as anything significant. I wish the club offered longer stays, but this is what is offered.

 

[dr.grenouille]

I would be volunteering with the club Volunteers Around the World (VAW) and will be assisting/shadowing doctors. My main tasks will include taking blood pressure, vitals, etc (simple stuff, nothing extreme). Its a good experience for me to see healthcare in a 3rd world setting and what those people have to go through. It's definitely something that I always wanted to do. And, in the future, when I'm a doctor (knock on wood), I want to do volunteer abroad work, because there are so many people suffering with things that can be simply cured if they had the access to the resources we do.

I was just wondering if med schools would consider 2 weeks aboard as anything significant. I wish the club offered longer stays, but this is what is offered.

7 Reasons Why Your Two Week Trip To Haiti Doesn’t Matter: Calling Bull on “Service Trips” and Voluntourism - The Almost Doctor's Channel

 

[LizzyM]

Go but don't list it on your application. You get whatever you get out of it and you don't run the risk of pissing someone off when they see your application.

I often ask about any visit to a foreign country but not because I think that the trip was a good idea but because it is an opportunity to get the applicant to speak off the cuff about an experience in another culture and with people who do not see the world in the same way as the applicant. I'm not interested in what you did there but how the experience changed the way you see the world and the people in it.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Go but don't list it on your application. You get whatever you get out of it and you don't run the risk of pissing someone off when they see your application.

I often ask about any visit to a foreign country but not because I think that the trip was a good idea but because it is an opportunity to get the applicant to speak off the cuff about an experience in another culture and with people who do not see the world in the same way as the applicant. I'm not interested in what you did there but how the experience changed the way you see the world and the people in it.

I agree that experiencing other cultures and how they see things differently from the applicant's perspective can be educational and inspiration. But like the article posted in #11 indicates, the cost of going on the trip can be donated and feed the people of that country for a very long time, etc...

To experience other cultures, the OP can save the money for the cost of the trip and start volunteering in their local communities that are of a different ethnicity from their own.

 

[LizzyM]

I agree that experiencing other cultures and how they see things differently from the applicant's perspective can be educational and inspiration. But like the article posted in #11 indicates, the cost of going on the trip can be donated and feed the people of that country for a very long time, etc...

To experience other cultures, the OP can save the money for the cost of the trip and start volunteering in their local communities that are of a different ethnicity from their own.

People in many countries in the world depend on tourism for their livelihood. You are feeding people if you stay in their hotel, eat in their restaurant and buy their handicrafts. A home-stay study abroad, a language immersion program, an anthropology research program, or a vacation can be as valuable, or more valuable, than a short-term volunteering gig. If you want to live and work abroad at some point as a short-term medical volunteer, it is useful to get out and go somewhere that is completely unfamiliar to you in terms of language, food, currency -- even toilet facilities. I don't believe you can get that while still staying in America. A short term trip abroad might be a good idea before deciding that a 2 year service obligation is a good career move.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

People in many countries in the world depend on tourism for their livelihood. You are feeding people if you stay in their hotel, eat in their restaurant and buy their handicrafts. A home-stay study abroad, a language immersion program, an anthropology research program, or a vacation can be as valuable, or more valuable, than a short-term volunteering gig. If you want to live and work abroad at some point as a short-term medical volunteer, it is useful to get out and go somewhere that is completely unfamiliar to you in terms of language, food, currency -- even toilet facilities. I don't believe you can get that while still staying in America. A short term trip abroad might be a good idea before deciding that a 2 year service obligation is a good career move.

Those are all very fair and valid points, especially the positive impact that tourism can have to the local indigenous community.

However, unless OP clarifies whether their trip won't fall under the term "voluntourism" as described by this article in Reuters embedded in the article posted on #11 Boom in 'voluntourism' sparks concerns over whether the industry is doing good, the trip OP is considering will enrich the volunteerism industry, and do more harm than good to the indigenous population.

OP can get all the "local" experiences by going the DIY route and visit other nations by staying at hostels or seek out international nonprofit organizations that do not need them to pay out of pocket to take part in.

 

[Planes2Doc]

A few years ago I went to Las Vegas with my now wife. There was a show playing at the MGM Grand called "Crazy Horse." It was a burlesque show that featured topless women. I was reading the reviews and eventually stumbled on one that put everything into perspective. It said something along the lines of: "If you want to see topless women, go to a strip club. You'll save a lot of money and have a much better time."

Same with these trips. Pre-meds typically have that very same kill two birds with one stone mentality (kind of like going to the show above). Do something fun and exciting, while scoring some application material at the same time. Look, if you want to go on an exotic trip, just take the money you'd spend on one of these over-priced voluntourism experiences and go somewhere a lot cooler. Instead of going somewhere in Central America, you can go to an exotic place in Asia. Also, if you genuinely care about [INSERT LOCAL POPULATION HERE], you would actually do more for the population as a tourist by pumping money into the local economy in numerous ways versus lining the pockets of yet another company taking advantage of eager pre-meds (voluntourism organization, Scribe America, etc) and likely doing close to nothing with your incredibly limited skill-set.

 

[Golden-Future]

I agree that experiencing other cultures and how they see things differently from the applicant's perspective can be educational and inspiration. But like the article posted in #11 indicates, the cost of going on the trip can be donated and feed the people of that country for a very long time, etc...

To experience other cultures, the OP can save the money for the cost of the trip and start volunteering in their local communities that are of a different ethnicity from their own.

I have some shadowing in a free clinic, where most people are poor and unable to pay for treatment or don't have insurance. So, I have some experience with poor local comunties, I should probably shadow more there too. I was thinking that I don't have to go far to help the underserved, but people in another country are experiencing it differently though.

 

[Golden-Future]

Those are all very fair and valid points, especially the positive impact that tourism can have to the local indigenous community.

However, unless OP clarifies whether their trip won't fall under the term "voluntourism" as described by this article in Reuters embedded in the article posted on #11 Boom in 'voluntourism' sparks concerns over whether the industry is doing good, the trip OP is considering will enrich the volunteerism industry, and do more harm than good to the indigenous population.

OP can get all the "local" experiences by going the DIY route and visit other nations by staying at hostels or seek out international nonprofit organizations that do not need them to pay out of pocket to take part in.

I was looking into non profits, but places like the peace corps require 2 years and I'm applying this summer

 

[SpoiledMilk]

If you insist on going after taking everything said on this thread into consideration, go and use it as a learning experience. However, like LizzyM advised, don't list it on your AMCAS activities.

I still think you should save your money and use the two weeks to increase your hours volunteering locally to shore up on any "deficiencies" in your ECs.

You can always go abroad if you get an early acceptance. For ex. I have an acceptance and now have 8 months (July 2018 orientation) to work, continue to volunteer, and/or use what is left in my bank acct to go overseas, etc.

 

[fi3451]

I think it depends. Do you have a skill to offer? If so then, yes it could be worthwhile. Also, there are organizations that are not that expensive to volunteer with (essentially you pay your plane ticket and little more). I think if you are paying $1000s of dollars then it's a waste.

I have gone on a service trip to Honduras and will be going on one in December to the same place. I am fluent in Spanish and will be a Spanish/English translator for the American doctors that are volunteering there. If I didn't speak Spanish, I think it would be a waste of time and I would essentially be a warm body and get in the way more than anything else.

I will absolutely include this in my EC's when applying as I have a desire to work with Spanish speaking patients. However, when I apply I will have other Spanish related experiences here in the United States.

If you feel like you can contribute and its something you are passionate about then go. My $.02.

 

[Golden-Future]

If you insist on going after taking everything said on this thread into consideration, go and use it as a learning experience. However, like LizzyM advised, don't list it on your AMCAS activities.

I still think you should save your money and use the two weeks to increase your hours volunteering locally to shore up on any "deficiencies" in your ECs.

You can always go abroad if you get an early acceptance. For ex. I have an acceptance and now have 8 months (July 2018 orientation) to work, continue to volunteer, and/or use what is left in my bank acct to go overseas, etc.

Whats the min about of volunteer clinical hours and shadowing that's considered competitive? By the time I apply, I will have ~100-150 hrs volunteering in my local hospital (aiding with feeding, mobility, cognitive function, and emotional support of the elderly patients). Additionally, I have 12.5 hrs shadowing, which I think I should do more of.

Yes, I definitely am thinking about going abroad during my gap year.

Also, this is not just a trip, we do fundraising all year to raise money for the medication/trip, are taught how to take vitals/blood pressure, and Spanish lessons. So, maybe it should go under activities as I am devoting time each weak to it.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Whats the min about of volunteer clinical hours and shadowing that's considered competitive? By the time I apply, I will have ~100-150 hrs volunteering in my local hospital (aiding with feeding, mobility, cognitive function, and emotional support of the elderly patients). Additionally, I have 12.5 hrs shadowing, which I think I should do more of.

Yes, I definitely am thinking about going abroad during my gap year.

Also, this is not just a trip, we do fundraising all year to raise money for the medication/trip, are taught how to take vitals/blood pressure, and Spanish lessons. So, maybe it should go under activities as I am devoting time each weak to it.

Adcoms on SDN can better advise whether your 100-150 hours of hospital volunteering is enough. Adcoms have advised that you will need a minimum of 50 hours of physician shadowing (primarily with primary care doctors). In any event, the point is to not just do the minimum to "check the box." Do enough hours to show Adcoms that you have a passion for medicine. Your competition will have hundreds if not thousands of clinical hours.

Remember that clinical/shadowing hours are just one aspect of your app. You will also need enough non-clinical volunteering hours to under-served populations, leadership, etc. I don't know if this trip and the time you spent in preparation for this trip will count as that. SDN Adcoms can better addressed this from their perspectives.

You could also elicit responses from Adcoms by making a new thread on WAMC (What Are My Chances?) listing metrics and stats.

GL!!

 

[LizzyM]

Whats the min about of volunteer clinical hours and shadowing that's considered competitive? By the time I apply, I will have ~100-150 hrs volunteering in my local hospital (aiding with feeding, mobility, cognitive function, and emotional support of the elderly patients). Additionally, I have 12.5 hrs shadowing, which I think I should do more of.

Yes, I definitely am thinking about going abroad during my gap year.

Also, this is not just a trip, we do fundraising all year to raise money for the medication/trip, are taught how to take vitals/blood pressure, and Spanish lessons. So, maybe it should go under activities as I am devoting time each weak to it.

Fundraising to pay for your trip abroad is not going to impress anyone on an adcom. Taking medications overseas is not a good idea for a host of reasons I won't get into right now. Medical school will teach you how to take vitals and blood pressure. You aren't expected to learn it and practice it before coming to medical school. Spanish is good to know but there are many cheaper and more efficient ways to learn that raising money to go abroad for two weeks.

 

[Golden-Future]

Adcoms on SDN can better advise whether your 100-150 hours of hospital volunteering is enough. Adcoms have advised that you will need a minimum of 50 hours of physician shadowing (primarily with primary care doctors). In any event, the point is to not just do the minimum to "check the box." Do enough hours to show Adcoms that you have a passion for medicine. Your competition will have hundreds if not thousands of clinical hours.

Remember that clinical/shadowing hours are just one aspect of your app. You will also need enough non-clinical volunteering hours to under-served populations, leadership, etc. I don't know if this trip and the time you spent in preparation for this trip will count as that. SDN Adcoms can better addressed this from their perspectives.

You could also elicit responses from Adcoms by making a new thread on WAMC (What Are My Chances?) listing metrics and stats.

GL!!

Yeah I have a ton of non clinical volunteering hours (in the 1000s) and 2 leadership roles. Also, a D1 athlete.

Up until this past may, I wanted to get my phd. Then, I decided MD/PhD is the route that's destined for me. I have a passion for research, but also discovered that I want to be able to treat patients. And, that having the MD will aid my research.

So, when deciding to go to medical school, I had no real clinical experience, now I have this volunteer program at my local hospital. I agree I should shadow more, maybe not primary care, maybe someone more towards my research interests. And yes, a what are my chances thread would probably be helpful.

Maybe this trip is a waste of money, but I feel like there's more I want to do to help people, but I feel so lost.

 

[sliceofbread136]

https://www.aamc.org/download/47425...al-shadowing-experience-executive-summary.pdf

• Member schools expressed significant concern with regards to premedical students engaging in unsupervised clinical activities in international settings [emphasis added]. In particular, 45-50% of those schools completing the survey described applicant involvement in invasive procedures in international settings as either harmful to, or of no value to, their application. Examples of such invasive procedures include giving vaccinations, suturing an injury, pulling teeth, and delivering a baby. This concern of admissions officers persisted, albeit at lower levels (35-40% of respondents), when the students were supervised by a health professional while performing such invasive procedures in international settings.

Some of these are stupid. “Invasive procedures”... we usually have people who haven’t graduated high school give vaccines, I am actually confident I could train an ape to do it. If joe the college student was standing around while some lady was giving birth instead of doing it on the floor of a cave or whatever I really don’t think it’s going to matter...

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Yeah I have a ton of non clinical volunteering hours (in the 1000s) and 2 leadership roles. Also, a D1 athlete.

Up until this past may, I wanted to get my phd. Then, I decided MD/PhD is the route that's destined for me. I have a passion for research, but also discovered that I want to be able to treat patients. And, that having the MD will aid my research.

So, when deciding to go to medical school, I had no real clinical experience, now I have this volunteer program at my local hospital. I agree I should shadow more, maybe not primary care, maybe someone more towards my research interests. And yes, a what are my chances thread would probably be helpful.

Maybe this trip is a waste of money, but I feel like there's more I want to do to help people, but I feel so lost.

Ahh..Now that you have provided a bit more clarity as far as your ECs, it looks to me that you might have enough other activities to fill the 15 slots on AMCAS. Therefore, I wouldn't raise any Adcom red flags during initial review of your app by listing the trip. If you want to go, then go and if it comes up during an interview, then you can elaborate on the experience and what you learned.

It's a good idea to do the gap year and use that time to increase your clinical hours and shadowing to shore up your app. Regarding the shadowing, you can shadow physicians of various specialties, but it is VITAL that you include primary care shadowing (IM, Peds, FM, OBGYN...maybe 20-25 hrs). Don't discount it because Adcoms love that kind of activity. Or you could find a scribe job during the gap year.

And lastly, feeling lost is normal. As a undergrad, your ability to help is limited by your time and lack of expertise. So don't sweat it. Remember that when you become licensed to practice, your opportunities to help patients/people will grow substantially. You can work/volunteer with organizations like Doctors Without Borders, WHO, Red Cross, etc. Think of the future and its promises, don't dwell on what you can't do right now. Do what you can to shore up your app presently.

GL!!!

 

[begoood95]

Ahh..Now that you have provided a bit more clarity as far as your ECs, it looks to me that you might have enough other activities to fill the 15 slots on AMCAS. Therefore, I wouldn't raise any Adcom red flags during initial review of your app by listing the trip. If you want to go, then go and if it comes up during an interview, then you can elaborate on the experience and what you learned.

It's a good idea to do the gap year and use that time to increase your clinical hours and shadowing to shore up your app. Regarding the shadowing, you can shadow physicians of various specialties, but it is VITAL that you include primary care shadowing (IM, Peds, FM, OBGYN...maybe 20-25 hrs). Don't discount it because Adcoms love that kind of activity. Or you could find a scribe job during the gap year.

And lastly, feeling lost is normal. As a undergrad, your ability to help is limited by your time and lack of expertise. So don't sweat it. Remember that when you become licensed to practice, your opportunities to help patients/people will grow substantially. You can work/volunteer with organizations like Doctors Without Borders, WHO, Red Cross, etc. Think of the future and its promises, don't dwell on what you can't do right now. Do what you can to shore up your app presently.

GL!!!

This is great advice. I'll repeat a portion for emphasis: if your app is otherwise strong, it would be a shame for you to be unsuccessful simply because of a lack of clinical hours—which is a simple area to mediate. Increase those hours (perhaps volunteer at a hospice center), and with a strong MCAT and great EC's like you've mentioned, you have a high(er) likelihood of success. Don't rush, as the wise @gonnif says; you don't want to be a re-applicant. Take your time, make sure to get your ducks in a row, and good luck!

 

[Golden-Future]

Ahh..Now that you have provided a bit more clarity as far as your ECs, it looks to me that you might have enough other activities to fill the 15 slots on AMCAS. Therefore, I wouldn't raise any Adcom red flags during initial review of your app by listing the trip. If you want to go, then go and if it comes up during an interview, then you can elaborate on the experience and what you learned.

It's a good idea to do the gap year and use that time to increase your clinical hours and shadowing to shore up your app. Regarding the shadowing, you can shadow physicians of various specialties, but it is VITAL that you include primary care shadowing (IM, Peds, FM, OBGYN...maybe 20-25 hrs). Don't discount it because Adcoms love that kind of activity. Or you could find a scribe job during the gap year.

And lastly, feeling lost is normal. As a undergrad, your ability to help is limited by your time and lack of expertise. So don't sweat it. Remember that when you become licensed to practice, your opportunities to help patients/people will grow substantially. You can work/volunteer with organizations like Doctors Without Borders, WHO, Red Cross, etc. Think of the future and its promises, don't dwell on what you can't do right now. Do what you can to shore up your app presently.

GL!!!

Wow thanks for writing that it made me feel so much better. Yes, once I'm a doctor I'll be able to help so much more!!

Im actually getting my Master's right now, as I started the program to prepare me for my PhD and enhance my research (before I knew I wanted to get my MD). I'm graduating in January, and applying MD/PhD in June, so I'll be able to get more shadowing hours and volunteering in once I graduate. But I also need to focus hardcore on the MCAT.

I'll have a gap year, but my application will already be in. I guess I could send updates about my volunteering??? I'm going to write in my application about the recent decision to go MD/PhD and the events that made me feel it was for me. So the lack of clinical would make sense.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Wow thanks for writing that it made me feel so much better. Yes, once I'm a doctor I'll be able to help so much more!!

Im actually getting my Master's right now, as I started the program to prepare me for my PhD and enhance my research (before I knew I wanted to get my MD). I'm graduating in January, and applying MD/PhD in June, so I'll be able to get more shadowing hours and volunteering in once I graduate. But I also need to focus hardcore on the MCAT.

I'll have a gap year, but my application will already be in. I guess I could send updates about my volunteering??? I'm going to write in my application about the recent decision to go MD/PhD and the events that made me feel it was for me. So the lack of clinical would make sense.

A gap year is an actual year between graduation of your masters and the time you apply.

For ex.
You graduate from your masters in January 2018.
From Jan 2018 to Jan 2019 is consider your gap year when you use that time to get more clinical volunteering/shadowing and doing other things to shore up your upcoming app. During this period, you can also study and take the MCAT and write your PS, activities description, pre-write secondaries.
Then June 2019 is when you apply and interview during August2019 to maybe Feb. 2020 (school dependent). When you get accepted, you won't start medical school until July/August 2020.

Remember that since you are applying MD/PhD, that process is EVEN MORE competitive than just MD. Some schools generally don't like updates unless the update is worthy (publications, new grades, Nobel Prize). However, this is school dependent. And telling the schools of your recent decision to go MD/PhD would probably be frown upon unless you show them. You can alleviate their concerns by showing them through taking an actual gap year to do what we talked about.

I would advise not rushing to apply. Age is not an issue, so take the time and use it wisely. You don't want your haste to result in being a re-applicant. Do it once and do it well.

 

[LizzyM]

I disagree that an applicant to a MD/PhD program needs 20 hours of primary care shadowing. Shadowing in the area of medicine one would be expected to practice in light of the desired PhD training would make far more sense.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

I disagree that an applicant to a MD/PhD program needs 20 hours of primary care shadowing. Shadowing in the area of medicine one would be expected to practice in light of the desired PhD training would make far more sense.

Deferring to LizzyM's expertise on this aspect. My advice is based on my experience and the advice I received as a MD applicant.