Volunteering?

[bpigz]

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My desire to do medicine is based on my academic aptitude, my interest in
science, and my desire to secure a challenging and well-paid career. Altruism
isn't a prerequisite, not that volunteering proves that one is altruistic. This
isn't to say that I dislike helping people, it's just that I don't like wasting
hundreds of hours of my life, performing unpaid menial tasks just to appease a
committee. If I had a choice, I wouldn't volunteer at all.

I agree, same here.

The Peace Corps could have one hell of a recruiting session in this thread alone, sheez.

From my own personal experience, clinical volunteering (health clinic) was a good, insightful experience...for about two months. Anything after that, up until the present time, has been a waste of my time. Don't get me wrong - the doctors and staff that work there are a great group of people and I learned alot about healthcare/patient communication from the doctors I speak too and shadow while there, but in reality it's been the same mundane **** for the past several months. Besides the actual volunteering part of it (vitals, putting pts in rooms, some paperwork - things I could be getting paid for as an MA), Ive learned nothing new and there was nothing that I couldn't have gained from shadowing (where I've learned more about the "nitty gritty" of medicine, surgery, etc...)

So, if I (hopefully) ever get to the interview stage of the process down the road, it will give me something to talk about, but if I stopped months ago at around 24 hours, I don't see how that could've helped in any way and that's the only reason why I'll continue for a while longer. My lowly opinion on clinical volunteering, experience, etc.. is that this prick in the side is the only "hoop jumping" part of the process that anyone will have to go through. It's really not that big of a deal and those who want to go into medicine should just suck it up and at the bare minimum, do it for at least a year or so. Besides "cookie-cutter" type EC's related to academics, research and so on - try and find one outside of all of that that is worthwhile and that you actually enjoy...some of you may even be involved in one now as I am, which is volunteer firefighting, something that I've been doing for several years. It's an extracurricular that I can draw so many things from and it's a good conversation topic..a much better one than multiple hours of useless, clinical volunteering ****.

If you're so concerned about altruism, join the Peace Corps. Shadowing doctors provides more than enough insight into the medical profession.

 

[1289]

I agree, same here.

The Peace Corps could have one hell of a recruiting session in this thread alone, sheez.

From my own personal experience, clinical volunteering (health clinic) was a good, insightful experience...for about two months. Anything after that, up until the present time, has been a waste of my time. Don't get me wrong - the doctors and staff that work there are a great group of people and I learned alot about healthcare/patient communication from the doctors I speak too and shadow while there, but in reality it's been the same mundane **** for the past several months. Besides the actual volunteering part of it (vitals, putting pts in rooms, some paperwork - things I could be getting paid for as an MA), Ive learned nothing new and there was nothing that I couldn't have gained from shadowing (where I've learned more about the "nitty gritty" of medicine, surgery, etc...)

So, if I (hopefully) ever get to the interview stage of the process down the road, it will give me something to talk about, but if I stopped months ago at around 24 hours, I don't see how that could've helped in any way and that's the only reason why I'll continue for a while longer. My lowly opinion on clinical volunteering, experience, etc.. is that this prick in the side is the only "hoop jumping" part of the process that anyone will have to go through. It's really not that big of a deal and those who want to go into medicine should just suck it up and at the bare minimum, do it for at least a year or so. Besides "cookie-cutter" type EC's related to academics, research and so on - try and find one outside of all of that that is worthwhile and that you actually enjoy...some of you may even be involved in one now as I am, which is volunteer firefighting, something that I've been doing for several years. It's an extracurricular that I can draw so many things from and it's a good conversation topic..a much better one than multiple hours of useless, clinical volunteering ****.

If you're so concerned about altruism, join the Peace Corps. Shadowing doctors provides more than enough insight into the medical profession.

I definitely understand your guys's points. I've had some seriously awful volunteer experiences where I felt like I was completely wasting my time, doing nothing of value, hated it. blah blah. I've also had some amazing experiences. If you don't want to volunteer, don't do it. but don't minimize the experiences that others have had by saying they are "all" wastes of time

 

[semicharmed]

I love how everyone here talks about altruism. Volunteering isn't about altruism. It's about a checkbox. If it were about altruism, you wouldn't put it on your application. Simple as that. That's the definition of altruism. If you want other people to see it (eg adcoms), then it's a form of conspicuous consumption.

Want to see altruism? Look at the number of doctors taking Medicaid. Medicaid is essentially paid altruism (I know, the notion of paid altruism is a contradiction), since it pays "cost of doing business." There something like a 30% buy-in from doctors on Medicaid. All that "altruistic" training takes a back seat when you have loans, houses, cars, college and other **** to pay for.

Believe it or not, people may actually do medically-related things because they genuinely enjoy them or think they can make a difference. You shouldn't assume that everyone does these "textbook pre-med things" simply to get into med school. The majority of very successful applicants I have befriended (shocker) actually enjoyed the activities they put on their application and (wait for it..) would have done these activities regardless of whether they were pre-med or not. I know, crazy right?

If you look for the worst in everyone, it's all you will see.

 

[szetok]

I definitely understand your guys's points. I've had some seriously awful volunteer experiences where I felt like I was completely wasting my time, doing nothing of value, hated it. blah blah. I've also had some amazing experiences. If you don't want to volunteer, don't do it. but don't minimize the experiences that others have had by saying they are "all" wastes of time

I agree. I've definitely experienced both sides of the spectrum, horrible and great volunteer experiences. I'm not even going to put my horrible experience down as a EC. But my volunteering experience tutoring children from homeless families was amazing and the kids were great. I love working with children and I know that I want to go in pediatrics in the future. It allows you to see the world in different perspectives. Again, its ultimately finding something you love doing.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to volunteer. But I'm going to do the absolute bare minimum and I'm going to hate every second of it. Volunteering is just another idiotic waste-of-time hoop to jump through. Volunteering for 50, 100, 200, 2000, etc. hours does not mean one is altruistic. Rather, it shows one's begrudging resolve to follow an unwritten rulebook and to check off checklist activities.

So what makes YOU altruistic? Seems like you're the one who's following the unwritten rulebook and check off activities.

I have about 7500 of volunteer hours over the past few years, I love it and have a lot of fun doing it (Firefighting/EMT/Rescue/Tutoring). I spend about 25 hours per week, and the more I do it the more I like it.

If you have a ****ty job like cleaning the **** off of bedsheets, I understand why you hate it. So get something that is actually worth the while and where you can make an actual difference in peoples' lives.

 

[bpigz]

I definitely understand your guys's points. I've had some seriously awful
volunteer experiences where I felt like I was completely wasting my time, doing
nothing of value, hated it. blah blah. I've also had some amazing experiences.
If you don't want to volunteer, don't do it. but don't minimize the experiences
that others have had by saying they are "all" wastes of time

My intention is not to belittle anyones volunteer experience. If so and so enjoys working with animals, or whatever it may be, that's great. I was just trying to point out how, personally, the clinical experience/volunteering aspect of what were talking about, has turned into nothing more than racking up hours when I could've drawn inspiration/spoke about it enough months ago, but the time involved in it obviously wouldn't suffice with a committee. And, that this is the only "hoop-jumping" aspect for some people - at least for me it is. Other things that I'm involved in (tutoring, volunteer firefighting and a few others) are things that I would be doing regardless of my intentions of going to medical school and that's what I think the majority of a persons EC's should be made of - useful and fulfilling ones.

 

[circulus vitios]

So what makes YOU altruistic? Seems like you're the one who's following the unwritten rulebook and check off activities.

I'm not going into medicine because I like helping people. I'm going into medicine because it's interesting, challenging, and financially secure. I don't hate helping people, it's just an added benefit. Nothing about me screams altruism.

I have about 7500 of volunteer hours over the past few years

I love it and have a lot of fun doing it (Firefighting/EMT/Rescue/Tutoring). I spend about 25 hours per week, and the more I do it the more I like it.

If you have a ****ty job like cleaning the **** off of bedsheets, I understand why you hate it. So get something that is actually worth the while and where you can make an actual difference in peoples' lives.

I need something with a small time commitment because I work during the school year and in the summers. I've looked into becoming a paid EMT-B but there are no classes within a hundred mile radius. Volunteer firefighting is too great of a time commitment. The opportunities with small commitments are all variations of "cleaning the **** off of bedsheets."

 

[sliceofbread136]

I think you may have a very narrow version of the term "service." Service doesn't, at its core, mean doing things that are very tedious and not personally gratifying. It seems by your description that you would actually feel very empowered and happy doing something that benefits the mentally ill because of your experience. Why not volunteer at a psych clinic? I've worked with the mentally ill before-it can be a rewarding experience. I maintain that if one is TRULY passionate about something-a disparity, injustice, some unnecessary pain- then you will be naturally drawn towards volunteering in the kinds of communities where the problems are most striking. If you're not drawn to this...then I challenge you to look deep inside and figure out why (or if) you want to help people, or if you just like being a scientist. If the later...then I'd do a more research intensive MD route.

I think you're selling yourself short in an attempt to appear more "enlightened" and "realistic." Don't be afraid to admit that you want to go into medicine because you want to make a difference. Idealism isn't inherently stupid. Search your feelings-you know it to be true.....

1. I don't know why this discussion turned my personal reasons for going into medicine, but they aren't relevant. Honestly, I don't mind my volunteering. That doesn't mean I think it is required to like volunteering to enjoy medicine.

2. You can enjoy helping people without wanting to do unpaid service. Some people got bills to pay.

3. I still don't see why somone who enjoys being with people, likes science, wants a stable career but doesn't like service would make a bad doctor.

 

[NightGod]

Seriously, look into nearby shelters and check with your county's youth service bureau. You can find some stuff that involves actively dealing with people (adults and/or kids) and only takes a few hours a week. The local shelter here offers four hour shifts and is ecstatic to get ANY time from volunteers-most people do ~5 shifts a month, but there are also a lot that only do one or two. Plus they're only open evenings and through the night so it's ideal for anyone who works during the day. The youth service bureau has tons of opportunities in the afternoon/on the weekends. This is in a town of about 18K people. As you said, you can get your clinical experience from a good amount of shadowing, the volunteer time doesn't HAVE to be clinical in nature. Finding an opportunity you enjoy will serve you far better than wiping **** off of sheets to check a box.

 

[circulus vitios]

Seriously, look into nearby shelters and check with your county's youth service bureau. You can find some stuff that involves actively dealing with people (adults and/or kids) and only takes a few hours a week. The local shelter here offers four hour shifts and is ecstatic to get ANY time from volunteers-most people do ~5 shifts a month, but there are also a lot that only do one or two. Plus they're only open evenings and through the night so it's ideal for anyone who works during the day. The youth service bureau has tons of opportunities in the afternoon/on the weekends. This is in a town of about 18K people. As you said, you can get your clinical experience from a good amount of shadowing, the volunteer time doesn't HAVE to be clinical in nature. Finding an opportunity you enjoy will serve you far better than wiping **** off of sheets to check a box.

There are literally zero homeless shelters in or around my town. Probably because there are no homeless in the area. I've looked into volunteering with a youth services department but they did not want to accept young volunteers.

 

[EnergyDrink]

I'm not going into medicine because I like helping people. I'm going into medicine because it's interesting, challenging, and financially secure. I don't hate helping people, it's just an added benefit. Nothing about me screams altruism.

Point taken, but you generalized volunteer workers and equate it to shadowing. Don't discredit the work of some because you haven't be able to find something that makes an impact.

Volunteering/Patient Exposure gives you experience on how to work with people, not what to expect in medicine. As a doctor, you work with people on a daily basis. If you do not like working with/for people, you show indications of being a poor physician.

I started volunteering years before I wanted to get into medical school. It has been far from "box checking" for me. The only thing I've done to check a box is shadowing.

 

[EnergyDrink]

There are literally zero homeless shelters in or around my town. Probably because there are no homeless in the area. I've looked into volunteering with a youth services department but they did not want to accept young volunteers.

Do yourself a favor, if the interviewer asks why you didn't find time to help people, don't tell them there was no one to help.

 

[semicharmed]

1. I don't know why this discussion turned my personal reasons for going into medicine, but they aren't relevant. Honestly, I don't mind my volunteering. That doesn't mean I think it is required to like volunteering to enjoy medicine.

2. You can enjoy helping people without wanting to do unpaid service. Some people got bills to pay.

3. I still don't see why somone who enjoys being with people, likes science, wants a stable career but doesn't like service would make a bad doctor.

I think we've probably reached an impasse. Just for the sake of responding (and I like lists...

1. I don't think you're a bad person or that you don't have good reasons for pursuing medicine. Honestly I'm not trying to target you, personally at all, but am exploring the concept of what it means to BE a physician and whether service is an intangible part of being a physician (or being a "good" physician).

2. You can enjoy helping people without wanting to do unpaid service. However, if you ONLY enjoy helping people if you are financially compensated, then most people would not consider that very morally praiseworthy. Money, in a strictly logical sense, would therefore be NECCESSARY for your interest in helping people. Otherwise, when you remove the money,you would still be interested.

3. There is a reason why telling a medical acom member "I do not like service" is literally a suicide note. Think about why this is. My theory is that a respect/desire to do service is SO INTEGRAL to being a "good physician" that a "good physician" could not exist that did not have this drive. Adcoms value certain things, and a desire to help others in an altruistic sense is much higher on that list than an ability to make money or even memorize extensive medical concepts. This is because doctor=service. It is a service profession and the two concepts are one and the same.

I still maintain that people who say they "don't like service" don't actually mean what that statement literally implies. I think they are saying "I have many other un-avoidable commitments (finances, family, etc) that keep me from helping other people in an altruistic sense" or "I hate menial, tedious labor and prefer something more intellectually stimulating." Volunteering in a free clinic is service that is close to what you will be doing as a physician, sang dinheiro. If a pre-med candidate would not enjoy this type of service-basically exactly what a doctor does without the money-then I do not think they will enjoy medical school or succeed in the profession.

 

[SpecterGT260]

How does volunteering show me any of this? It does not add anything to the 'view of what medicine is.'

then you arent doing it right 😉

 

[Fed]

I think we've probably reached an impasse. Just for the sake of responding (and I like lists...

1. I don't think you're a bad person or that you don't have good reasons for pursuing medicine. Honestly I'm not trying to target you, personally at all, but am exploring the concept of what it means to BE a physician and whether service is an intangible part of being a physician (or being a "good" physician).

2. You can enjoy helping people without wanting to do unpaid service. However, if you ONLY enjoy helping people if you are financially compensated, then most people would not consider that very morally praiseworthy. Money, in a strictly logical sense, would therefore be NECCESSARY for your interest in helping people. Otherwise, when you remove the money,you would still be interested.

3. There is a reason why telling a medical acom member "I do not like service" is literally a suicide note. Think about why this is. My theory is that a respect/desire to do service is SO INTEGRAL to being a "good physician" that a "good physician" could not exist that did not have this drive. Adcoms value certain things, and a desire to help others in an altruistic sense is much higher on that list than an ability to make money or even memorize extensive medical concepts. This is because doctor=service. It is a service profession and the two concepts are one and the same.

I still maintain that people who say they "don't like service" don't actually mean what that statement literally implies. I think they are saying "I have many other un-avoidable commitments (finances, family, etc) that keep me from helping other people in an altruistic sense" or "I hate menial, tedious labor and prefer something more intellectually stimulating." Volunteering in a free clinic is service that is close to what you will be doing as a physician, sang dinheiro. If a pre-med candidate would not enjoy this type of service-basically exactly what a doctor does without the money-then I do not think they will enjoy medical school or succeed in the profession.

I think you're confusing service with service. Service means making good subs for someone at Subway. It means mowing someone's lawn well. It means passionately and thoroughly arguing a court case. Service is volunteering at a clinic, hospital, homeless shelter, et al.

My main qualm with admissions is that we're forced to do the latter when in the future we'll be doing the former.

 

[thelaw986]

I'm not going into medicine because I like helping people. I'm going into medicine because it's interesting, challenging, and financially secure. I don't hate helping people, it's just an added benefit. Nothing about me screams altruism.

I need something with a small time commitment because I work during the school year and in the summers. I've looked into becoming a paid EMT-B but there are no classes within a hundred mile radius. Volunteer firefighting is too great of a time commitment. The opportunities with small commitments are all variations of "cleaning the **** off of bedsheets."

Wow you really appear to be going into medicine for the wrong reasons. The biggest, if not number one reason to become a doctor is ALTRUISM. Your job as a doctor is to educate, diagnose, and treat those who are in need. You will work long tiring hours at the hospital, up to 80 hours a week as a resident! You will not have a "comfortable" life until your 30's when you become an attending physician. But it will be all worth it because its rewarding to serve the community. You see people coming in the hospital barely alive and leaving with improved/stabilized condition because of YOUR help.

When you are applying to medical school, you will need to stress your altruistic motives in pursuing medicine. You will need to sell this attitude to the adcoms if you aren't personally "altruistic".

Lots of careers out there are "challenging, interesting, and financially secure". Lots of careers make more money and have less stress compared with being a doctor. So your reasons for picking medicine is just as applicable to a careers in business, education, law etc.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I think you're confusing service with service. Service means making good subs for someone at Subway. It means mowing someone's lawn well. It means passionately and thoroughly arguing a court case. Service is volunteering at a clinic, hospital, homeless shelter, et al.

My main qualm with admissions is that we're forced to do the latter when in the future we'll be doing the former.

I cant tell if you're trolling, trying to ironic/funny/profound, or if my browser doesnt support something fancy you did with fonts.....

 

[Fed]

I cant tell if you're trolling, trying to ironic/funny/profound, or if my browser doesnt support something fancy you did with fonts.....

Not trying to do anything fancy. I strongly agree that medicine is about providing a service, and providing it darn well. There's a big difference between that and volunteering. One can be an excellent physician without being altruistic.

 

[thelaw986]

Not trying to do anything fancy. I strongly agree that medicine is about providing a service, and providing it darn well. There's a big difference between that and volunteering. One can be an excellent physician without being altruistic.

been watching House? 😛

 

[SpecterGT260]

actually i agree with him there. Nothing about being a doctor requires you to give a damn. Illness just makes people feel vulnerable and they want their experience to be all encompassing.

 

[semicharmed]

I think you're confusing service with service. Service means making good subs for someone at Subway. It means mowing someone's lawn well. It means passionately and thoroughly arguing a court case. Service is volunteering at a clinic, hospital, homeless shelter, et al.

My main qualm with admissions is that we're forced to do the latter when in the future we'll be doing the former.

Medicine is not just another job. This sentiment above is what has turned the medical profession into a considerably "for-profit" enterprise. This is the root of what I am frustrated about; the fact that some individuals believe medicine is or should be something that is not about helping people, but instead about fulfilling a financial transaction. That is not the kind of medicine that is good for patients and people who think this way will not be good doctors. They may become doctors. But they will never exceed a certain level of excellence without an altruistic attitude.

I know it's frustrating to feel like one is obligated to participate in things to get into medical school, and the pressure to pursue some activities (i.e. research, etc) that may not be to a particular person's liking does suck. With service, I am arguing that the definition of community service is so broad that you should be able to find some volunteering activity that you like to do and enjoy it without being paid. If you don't enjoy anything without being paid, I do not think that medicine will be as enjoyable as another kind of field, such as biomedical entrepreneurship, business, etc.
Note: I'm not targeting any specific person/people here on the thread. Just the attitude in general.

 

[Neurosis]

stating the obvious here, but: volunteering to make yourself look altruistic is not altruistic.

 

[SpecterGT260]

stating the obvious here, but: volunteering to make yourself look altruistic is not altruistic.

yeah... its unfortunate that the conversation always turns this way.....
Being not altruistic does not make it not an important part of your application. If we rewind closer to the OP you will see the subject is not about the meaning of volunteering but whether or not you should do it. The answer to that question is yes, because if you dont you will lose your seat to someone with equal stats who did 👍

 

[thelaw986]

stating the obvious here, but: volunteering to make yourself look altruistic is not altruistic.

Correct. But being a volunteer forces you into a position where u have to perform service/altruistic tasks without compensation. This in itself shows the adcoms that some form of humility exists in this applicant (however little there may be). Which is better than the arrogant and whiny: I don't want to do community service because I hate doing menial tasks.

 

[mohad]

looks like I'm screwed with my 50 hours of volunteering 🙁

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I'm confused. is the "volunteering" that we are referring to clinical, non-clinical, or both? You can probably get into medical school a lot easier without non-clinical volunteering than without clinical volunteering.

Also, while I realize the importance of alturism in a potential doctor, I find it a little insulting when people judge other's reasons for going into medicine as inferior.

 

[circulus vitios]

Wow you really appear to be going into medicine for the wrong reasons. The biggest, if not number one reason to become a doctor is ALTRUISM. Your job as a doctor is to educate, diagnose, and treat those who are in need. You will work long tiring hours at the hospital, up to 80 hours a week as a resident! You will not have a "comfortable" life until your 30's when you become an attending physician. But it will be all worth it because its rewarding to serve the community. You see people coming in the hospital barely alive and leaving with improved/stabilized condition because of YOUR help.

When you are applying to medical school, you will need to stress your altruistic motives in pursuing medicine. You will need to sell this attitude to the adcoms if you aren't personally "altruistic".

Lots of careers out there are "challenging, interesting, and financially secure". Lots of careers make more money and have less stress compared with being a doctor. So your reasons for picking medicine is just as applicable to a careers in business, education, law etc.

I'm going into medicine for the wrong reasons, says a pre-med. There are not "lots of careers out there" that make more money than physicians, let alone more money with less stress.

 

[neoevolution]

I'm going into medicine for the wrong reasons, says a pre-med. There are not "lots of careers out there" that make more money than physicians, let alone more money with less stress.

How many happy attendings have you met who went into medicine purely for the money or will tell you it's a low stress job? Even if you make it as a physician, is the money really worth being miserable? And with the way compensation is falling, medicine just isn't that lucrative anymore. (IC took a 30% payment hit in a SINGLE year)

EDIT: look at physician satisfaction surveys if you don't believe me, many doctors feel stressed, unhappy, and underpaid.

 

[circulus vitios]

How many happy attendings have you met who went into medicine purely for the money or will tell you it's a low stress job? Even if you make it as a physician, is the money really worth being miserable? And with the way compensation is falling, medicine just isn't that lucrative anymore. (IC took a 30% payment hit in a SINGLE year)

EDIT: look at physician satisfaction surveys if you don't believe me, many doctors feel stressed, unhappy, and underpaid.

Welcome to the real world. Everyone feels 'stressed, unhappy, and underpaid.'

I like the money but I'm not going into only for the money. I like learning about science, and learning about and staying on the cutting edge of medical treatments really interests me. Helping people is cool, but it's not my main motivation for enterting medicine. An interest in science/medicine is.

 

[drfeelgood88]

Many colleges have SGA-funded volunteer organizations to participate in,such as Alpha Phi Omega, which has numerous alumni with connections.
😎




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Phi_Omega

 

[Fed]

Medicine is not just another job. This sentiment above is what has turned the medical profession into a considerably "for-profit" enterprise. This is the root of what I am frustrated about; the fact that some individuals believe medicine is or should be something that is not about helping people, but instead about fulfilling a financial transaction. That is not the kind of medicine that is good for patients and people who think this way will not be good doctors. They may become doctors. But they will never exceed a certain level of excellence without an altruistic attitude.

I know it's frustrating to feel like one is obligated to participate in things to get into medical school, and the pressure to pursue some activities (i.e. research, etc) that may not be to a particular person's liking does suck. With service, I am arguing that the definition of community service is so broad that you should be able to find some volunteering activity that you like to do and enjoy it without being paid. If you don't enjoy anything without being paid, I do not think that medicine will be as enjoyable as another kind of field, such as biomedical entrepreneurship, business, etc.
Note: I'm not targeting any specific person/people here on the thread. Just the attitude in general.

Oh, to be young again. 🙄

I can't speak for anyone but myself. Truth is, I would be happy in many professions--high school band teacher, middle school math teacher, architect, to name a few. But I can make the most money as a physician. It's not about helping people; it's about prestige. I dare say most pre-meds, if they were truly honest, would agree.

And can we please, once and for all, dispel the notion that one must be "altruistic," "selfless," "compassionate," etc. in order to be a good doctor. You provide a service and are compensated accordingly.

 

[thelaw986]

I'm confused. is the "volunteering" that we are referring to clinical, non-clinical, or both? You can probably get into medical school a lot easier without non-clinical volunteering than without clinical volunteering.

Also, while I realize the importance of alturism in a potential doctor, I find it a little insulting when people judge other's reasons for going into medicine as inferior.

Clinical volunteering is great because it's killing two birds with one stone: get more exposure to hospital environment (able to chat with doctors, nurses, patients etc.) and performing community service.

Non-clinical volunteering can make you stand out from the rest of the crowd if you happen to have interest in other types of community service. It adds depth to your character and application.

There are many reasons why people pursue a career in medicine: interest in research, love of biology, challenging/ever-changing environment, leadership, financial stability etc. However, it's important to understand that the FOUNDATION of medicine, the principle core value that all physicians share is a yearning to help those that are in need. Therefore at bare minimum, a doctor should have some altruistic inclination. The other reasons (research ... etc.) should build on top of this fact.

 

[thelaw986]

Oh, to be young again. 🙄

I can't speak for anyone but myself. Truth is, I would be happy in many professions--high school band teacher, middle school math teacher, architect, to name a few. But I can make the most money as a physician. It's not about helping people; it's about prestige. I dare say most pre-meds, if they were truly honest, would agree.

And can we please, once and for all, dispel the notion that one must be "altruistic," "selfless," "compassionate," etc. in order to be a good doctor. You provide a service and are compensated accordingly.

Well, it depends upon what u mean by "good" right? everyone's got a different definition of a good doctor. Your future patients will each have their own definitions and exceptions as well, which you will have to fulfill.

 

[SpecterGT260]

looks like I'm screwed with my 50 hours of volunteering 🙁

cant.... stop... watching.... your... avat........ deeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[semicharmed]

Oh, to be young again. 🙄

I can't speak for anyone but myself. Truth is, I would be happy in many professions--high school band teacher, middle school math teacher, architect, to name a few. But I can make the most money as a physician. It's not about helping people; it's about prestige. I dare say most pre-meds, if they were truly honest, would agree.

And can we please, once and for all, dispel the notion that one must be "altruistic," "selfless," "compassionate," etc. in order to be a good doctor. You provide a service and are compensated accordingly.

I'm sorry I'm so young and naiive. Thanks for being so enlightened with all your years of medical school experience. Oh wait.

Good luck with the application. I strongly suggest taking acting classes, because if you tell your schools that you do not believe that altruism or compassion are important to be a doctor, and that prestige and money are the reasons you are pursuing the profession, they will laugh you out of the room (or possibly beat you with their clipboards...depending on the institution...). Best to be extremely dishonest.

 

[gettheleadout]

Welcome to Bad Attitudes Avenue, everyone.

 

[Fed]

I'm sorry I'm so young and naiive. Thanks for being so enlightened with all your years of medical school experience. Oh wait.

Good luck with the application. I strongly suggest taking acting classes, because if you tell your schools that you do not believe that altruism or compassion are important to be a doctor, and that prestige and money are the reasons you are pursuing the profession, they will laugh you out of the room (or possibly beat you with their clipboards...depending on the institution...). Best to be extremely dishonest.

I'm begrudingly playing "the game." And I've checked off all the boxes. Habitat for Humanity for low-income minority families after Katrina. CNA at a clinic for the uninsured. Open houses and fundraising campaigns for the university. Secretary at a museum. Reading and math tutor for low-income minority elementary school children. I've done all this and hated every single minute of it. Not to mention the COD I've missed out on. Oh well.

Again, it's not compassion or altrusim that propels physicians to excellence. It's just business.

 

[GNE24]

Yeah, it matters. SO many people have a distorted view of the medical field (see: Grey's Anatomy, ER, House) that Adcoms want to know that they've had some real exposure to the medical world. When you volunteer/shadow, you definitely end up doing pretty menial crap (I spent a year wiping down beds and changing sheets in the ER, the closest I came to a medical procedure was helping transfer a patient from a bed to a stretcher), but you also get a chance to see day to day patients and get a chance to talk with health care professionals about what their lives are like. You get to observe them dealing with malignant patients, get to watch drunks brought in by the police rant about how horribly they're being treated, get to see addicts make death threats when they don't get the drugs they "need", you get to sit outside a room for two hours making sure the person with suicidal ideations doesn't try ripping open the sharps box, and, yes, you get to smell patients (/nod to LizzyM's sig). While you certainly don't do anything like practice medicine, you do get exposed to the lives of people who do and *that* is why Adcoms want to see clinical experience.

This is right on. Worked for a hospice organization for the past few years. Had to make home visits quite frequently. One of which was the home of a meth user who was placed on hospice care. Priceless experience.

 

[GNE24]

I'm sorry I'm so young and naiive. Thanks for being so enlightened with all your years of medical school experience. Oh wait.

Good luck with the application. I strongly suggest taking acting classes, because if you tell your schools that you do not believe that altruism or compassion are important to be a doctor, and that prestige and money are the reasons you are pursuing the profession, they will laugh you out of the room (or possibly beat you with their clipboards...depending on the institution...). Best to be extremely dishonest.

Nicely said. Geeze. That post was extremely disgusting. I got a chill just reading it. All about prestige? God, I loved being in classes with *****s like that. It made my day to kick their butts in terms of having the highest grade average and doing it with ease. People like that should be arrested for being complete jerks. Not about money, not about prestige...its great to have money but if your not passionate about what you do eventually you will 1) Fail 2) Get caught cheating 3) Get arrested for being a fraud or 4) ruin someones life and get sued. I'm happy a med student stepped up and defended this. 👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

Nicely said. Geeze. That post was extremely disgusting. I got a chill just reading it. All about prestige? God, I loved being in classes with *****s like that. It made my day to kick their butts in terms of having the highest grade average and doing it with ease. People like that should be arrested for being complete jerks. Not about money, not about prestige...its great to have money but if your not passionate about what you do eventually you will 1) Fail 2) Get caught cheating 3) Get arrested for being a fraud or 4) ruin someones life and get sued. I'm happy a med student stepped up and defended this. 👍

You are drawing a lot of relationships here that are not true.....

 

[Fed]

Nicely said. Geeze. That post was extremely disgusting. I got a chill just reading it. All about prestige? God, I loved being in classes with *****s like that. It made my day to kick their butts in terms of having the highest grade average and doing it with ease. People like that should be arrested for being complete jerks. Not about money, not about prestige...its great to have money but if your not passionate about what you do eventually you will 1) Fail 2) Get caught cheating 3) Get arrested for being a fraud or 4) ruin someones life and get sued. I'm happy a med student stepped up and defended this. 👍

Ah, where to begin? First, let's disregard your personal feelings. The "chills" you allegedly felt are not relevant to this discussion. Second, let's disregard your grades. They are not relevant to this discussion, either. Cool story though, bro. 😎

Now we're getting somewhere. You stated that people who are "complete jerks" should be arrested. Clearly, you are wrong on this point. One point to Slytherin.

It is great to have money. Recall from my post that I stated I would be challenged by, satisfied with, and passionate about numerous careers. For example, I have a keen interest in music and would LOVE being a high school band teacher. But I don't want a highlight of my life to be a dinner at Applebee's celebrating breaking the $50k/year mark. (You feel the exact same way and you know it.) Even if I would be marginally less happy and fulfilled in medicine, it would still be the obvious choice for financial reasons.

Anyway, let's step back for a moment. This discussion initially was about altruism and compassion. But you mentioned passion. In many ways, we agree. Being passionate about medicine (or any other field) is important--I don't dispute that. But one can be passionate about a business transaction without being altruistic/selfless/compassionate.

 

[circulus vitios]

I'm sorry I'm so young and naiive. Thanks for being so enlightened with all your years of medical school experience. Oh wait.

Good luck with the application. I strongly suggest taking acting classes, because if you tell your schools that you do not believe that altruism or compassion are important to be a doctor, and that prestige and money are the reasons you are pursuing the profession, they will laugh you out of the room (or possibly beat you with their clipboards...depending on the institution...). Best to be extremely dishonest.

Admissions committee members? Sure.
Practicing physicians?

 

[semicharmed]

I may have been a little...worked up... when I wrote that so I apologize for the ad hominem. I meant the literal thing though, which is to think about why adcoms so emphasize service. The physicians I work with stay late to help me out sometimes-they could just peace out at the end of the day. It makes me respect them a lot and makes me work harder to meet their standards. Think about the things in life that bring meaning, investment, a sense of importance and fulfillment. I don't think these feelings come with "financial transactions." They come with a dedication to serve; a feeling that you are making a difference with intentions rooted in something bigger than mere fiscal exchanges.

It'd be a stretch to say EVERY doc loves volunteering or altruism. But even if some docs go into medicine without a sense of compassion/altruism, does anyone on here actually think it's a good thing for the patients or profession? Maybe it would be better to have an a-hole surgeon who was incredible with his skills to fix my leg than the really nice surgeon who isn't quite as good...but I do think that compassion and altruism of the physician would play into the quality of care (who's going to spend time at home researching your case-history? Who's going to be accessible to come in on a sunday afternoon if you've been admitted to the ER?)

There were some really good points about volunteering on here that others said about exposing yourself to different communities and putting yourself in difficult situations. Reminds me of the Calvin and Hobbes' dad response to Calvin's complaints: "it builds character."

I'm out: got to go break rocks with some day laborers wooo haha.....

 

[ShowandTell]

Curious to know, do medical schools admission committees ask you to list the start and end dates of your volunteering on the form, or is it more generalized i.e. "List how many hours of volunteering you have done."

 

[snorlax]

Curious to know, do medical schools admission committees ask you to list the start and end dates of your volunteering on the form, or is it more generalized i.e. "List how many hours of volunteering you have done."

Start date, end date, and average # of hours per week. It doesn't ask you to list how many volunteer hours you did, but that can be extrapolated I guess.

 

[Simpson]

You say that shadowing will not make one a better doctor and you immediately mention volunteering, as if volunteering will make one a better doctor. Ignoring the baseless juxtaposition, shadowing is more important because it gives one a rough idea of what being a physician is really about. To me, volunteering is useless because I do not want to become an orderly, a janitor, a secretary, or a homeless shelter manager. I don't enjoy volunteering and doing more volunteering will not make me enjoy it. It's not that I don't like helping people, it's that I hate wasting my time on pointless, unskilled, menial labor and not even getting paid for it -- all for the sake for fulfilling some stupid checklist. I understand that being a physician is not all dollars and glamor. I don't need to waste hundreds of hours of my life in a hospice to indirectly realize this.

Hi! I am a currently a medical school hopeful and can attest to the importance of both volunteering and showowing. As a volunteer in the emergency departnent have had the most enjoyful experience. Now, I understand that I do not receive any more responsbillity than just cleaning beds;however, on my second week the experience the on call physician asked me what I was doing and hoped to gain from the experience. He said that I may follow him in the rooms and listen to the conversations and basically shadow him whenever I wanted to. I was stark and excited because I was given major access to the differenctial side of medicine. This dctor is a 30 year ER physcian and is one of the most kindest people I have ever meet. I have begin to build relationships with many of the nurses aswell. The physicians at the ER are basically an overqualified group of individuals.

I wanted to end this argument one and for all for all of the previous arguments that occured regarding volunteering versus shadowing. The on site experience you receive contributing to any other individual is what you make it. You can just volunteer, to move carts, prepare beds, or you can make it much more. I learn much about the terminology doctors and nurses use on a daily basis.

I don't know the emphasis of volunteering/shadowing on a medical school committe;however, I can assure you that an appplicant with the exact same GPA/MCAT, but has no meaningful volunteer/shadowing experience will be turned down over one with it.

I think volunteering is much more than just your stats as a rising physician. I beleive coming and working in a Hospital every week has allowed me to imagine my self in a similar career for the future. In addition, you should consider the privacy laws that are intact. Volunteers must maintain these, and medical schools can be more comfortable with somone who has staffed in a hospital and has dealt with these procedures.
Most importantly, I am allowed to see patients. I have always been troubled by people who are hurt, wounded, or undergoing trials that they do not understand. Seeing these conditions first hand has allowed me to mature as an individual. Whenever you see a patient, you see yourself. A heart of service and longing is developed through this process in my mind.

 

[Styrene]

My ED volunteering was one of the best learning experiences I've ever had.

My non-clinical volunteering was one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had (still doing it).

Volunteering can be about more than a requirement: It can be used to gain self-esteem, to improve an infinitesimally small slice of society, and even to build skills and experiences that translate well to future employment. I think getting into med school has a lot to do with depth of experience, insight into the human condition, perspective on one's own flaws and shortcomings, and a desire to help make a better world--volunteering can certainly factor into the development of these aspects of a person, though if these are truly communicable through online applications is another thing altogether.

I did initially start volunteering because I thought it was required for acceptance to med school, but now I can't imagine my life without the resulting experiences. I would recommend, as has been said so many times, to pick a special talent you have and use it to give freely back to the community one day a week.