WAMC 4.0/527 URM Trad Applicant

[OutOfRoo]

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WAMC: 4.0/527, URM (African American), FGLI, Arizona Resident

Demographics

• African American, URM
• FGLI, low SES/income
• Arizona resident

Stats

• cGPA: 4.0
• sGPA: 4.0
• MCAT: 527 (CARS: 131)
• Undergrad: State school

Clinical Experience (~800 hours over 3 years, all volunteer)

• Hospice volunteering, very important to me
• Many different hospital volunteerings
• Clinical research patient interactions (consenting patients, etc., through my lab. But this is minor hours <50)

Research (~700 hours, projected 1100)

• Translational clinical research
• 3 abstracts, 2 posters
• Projected 400-hour paid research fellowship this summer continuing with the same lab, presenting at a conference at the end

Shadowing (~105 hours)

• Orthopedic surgery
• Neurosurgery
• Primary care
• Cardiothoracic surgery

Non-Clinical Volunteering (~200 hours)

• Unhoused shelter for the past 2 years

Teaching (~600 hours across 3 courses, many semesters) — major theme of my app

• TA for biology, gen chem, ochem
• Private MCAT after taking the MCAT myself

Non-Clinical Employment (~2,300 hours, 4ish years)

• Long-term big-box retail, started in HS

Honors/Awards

• None notable

School List (Admittedly top heavy)


Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, UPenn (Perelman), Duke, UCSF, Columbia, Yale, WashU, NYU Grossman, Mayo, Michigan, UCLA, Mayo Arizona, Vanderbilt, Weill Cornell, Northwestern, Pitt, Emory, Icahn Mount Sinai, UChicago (Pritzker), Ohio State, UVA, Dartmouth (Geisel), Case Western, USC (Keck), Brown, BU, Einstein, USF (Morsani), Rochester, Hofstra, Iowa, Indiana, University of Arizona (Phoenix), University of Arizona, Arizona State University

Priorities

• Cost/aid is my #1 priority, I'm FGLI and will rely heavily on institutional aid. I know top-tier programs tend to be the most generous here (full-ride/full-tuition programs, strong need-based aid), which is partly why the list is top-heavy.
• I don't know what specialty I want yet, so I want to be positioned well for anything, including competitive specialties, which is another reason I'm leaning toward research-heavy programs.

Questions

1. Is the top-heavy list justified given stats + URM status + aid priorities, or am I over-shooting?
2. Any obvious adds I'm missing for strong need-based aid?
3. Clinical hours are all volunteer with no paid clinical work, is 800 hrs enough, or should I flag it? I've been consistent since the start of college.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Welcome to the forums.

I hope you applied to the SDN Prehealth Scholarship when we opened earlier this year. Are you part of any mentoring programs that support Black (male?) physicians? Your metrics should get you lots of attention, but if you are financially constrained, you need a smaller list. Mission fit is extremely important, and you want to make the schools recruit you. Have you gone to any recruitment events?

 

[Faha]

You have a good list and should receive several interviews.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

The top heavy list is justified. You're one of the strongest applicants I've ever seen here. URM with near-perfect stats? See you at Harvard. Not even kidding. You're not golden, not even platinum, but damn near unobtainium. Last applicant that I saw that was as strong as you are was a former Navy SEAL or some other kind of Special Forces with a 4.0 and near-perfect MCAT.

 

[MateoGM416]

Jesus. You're the future of this country. When you're an attending, I hope you can give back as a mentor for pre-meds and med students from similar backgrounds. Godspeed.

 

[jvquarterback]

I’d add the hbcu’s. They have some solid financial aid packages as well. You’ll get aid other places too. The list is fine otherwise.

 

[OutOfRoo]

Welcome to the forums.

I hope you applied to the SDN Prehealth Scholarship when we opened earlier this year. Are you part of any mentoring programs that support Black (male?) physicians? Your metrics should get you lots of attention, but if you are financially constrained, you need a smaller list. Mission fit is extremely important, and you want to make the schools recruit you. Have you gone to any recruitment events?

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I applied for the SDN Prehealth Scholarship but didn't get it, I think it came down to location and a few eligibility factors that ruled me out, but I am very well below the poverty line, haha.

I'm not currently part of any mentoring programs that support Black physicians. I'd genuinely appreciate any recommendations if you have them though, it's a gap I'd like to fill.

On list size and cost: I qualified for FAP, so my first 20 primaries are free and the corresponding secondaries are waived. After that, each additional primary is about $50, so even ~20 more schools would run me around $1,000 in primaries (but secondaries are waived). I've been saving specifically for this, and given the opportunity cost of not getting in, I feel comfortable casting a wider net. Although if the better move is to trim rather than expand, I'm open to that. Is your concern more about spreading myself thin on secondaries, or about mission fit being the real bottleneck regardless of how many I apply to?

On recruitment events: honestly, I didn't know this was a thing. I assumed top schools had no shortage of strong applicants and wouldn't need to actively recruit, especially at the pre-application stage. Can you point me toward what these typically look like, are they school-hosted virtual info sessions, AAMC-organized things, or something else? I'd like to start attending ones relevant to the schools on my list.

Thank you again, this is really helpful.

 

[OutOfRoo]

I’d add the hbcu’s. They have some solid financial aid packages as well. You’ll get aid other places too. The list is fine otherwise.

Thank you for the HBCU suggestion, I agree. It would be a mistake not to. This was the school list made by admit.org and it left them out, but I'll add Howard, Meharry, and Morehouse 100%

 

[Toffifay]

I don’t know, that 131 CARS might hold you back 😉

Sky is the limit. Schools will be beating down your door. Just make sure you interview well.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

You don't need HBCUs unless you want them. Your list should be at least half Top 20s. You are one of the strongest applicants I have seen on these boards in a decade. @Goro, @LizzyM, this is an unobtainium-grade rock star.

The Chuck Norris of premeds. A true legend.

 

[Goro]

WAMC: 4.0/527, URM (African American), FGLI, Arizona Resident

Demographics

• African American, URM
• FGLI, low SES/income
• Arizona resident

Stats

• cGPA: 4.0
• sGPA: 4.0
• MCAT: 527 (CARS: 131)
• Undergrad: State school

Clinical Experience (~800 hours over 3 years, all volunteer)

• Hospice volunteering, very important to me
• Many different hospital volunteerings
• Clinical research patient interactions (consenting patients, etc., through my lab. But this is minor hours <50)

Research (~700 hours, projected 1100)

• Translational clinical research
• 3 abstracts, 2 posters
• Projected 400-hour paid research fellowship this summer continuing with the same lab, presenting at a conference at the end

Shadowing (~105 hours)

• Orthopedic surgery
• Neurosurgery
• Primary care
• Cardiothoracic surgery

Non-Clinical Volunteering (~200 hours)

• Unhoused shelter for the past 2 years

Teaching (~600 hours across 3 courses, many semesters) — major theme of my app

• TA for biology, gen chem, ochem
• Private MCAT after taking the MCAT myself

Non-Clinical Employment (~2,300 hours, 4ish years)

• Long-term big-box retail, started in HS

Honors/Awards

• None notable

School List (Admittedly top heavy)


Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, UPenn (Perelman), Duke, UCSF, Columbia, Yale, WashU, NYU Grossman, Mayo, Michigan, UCLA, Mayo Arizona, Vanderbilt, Weill Cornell, Northwestern, Pitt, Emory, Icahn Mount Sinai, UChicago (Pritzker), Ohio State, UVA, Dartmouth (Geisel), Case Western, USC (Keck), Brown, BU, Einstein, USF (Morsani), Rochester, Hofstra, Iowa, Indiana, University of Arizona (Phoenix), University of Arizona, Arizona State University

You're rock solid for any of those schools!
Start list with WashU. You can scratch Hofstra and IU. ASU is more for engineering people.
Consider Baylor, UTxSW, U VM, SUNY Stony Brook

 

[LizzyM]

WashU in St. Louis loves high MCATs and is known to offer free rides to applicants with the right numbers. It is a smaller city but if you have Rochester on your list -- 🤷‍♀️

 

[Mr.Smile12]

For professional organizations, everything starts with the NMA and the SNMA. Most of the mentoring organizations are started by members of NMA/SNMA. SNMA just had its national conference, but they are very active on social media nationally and among their chapters. Connect with SNMA members at the schools of interest.

Mentoring organizations, I certainly know about the 15 White Coats Foundation, the National Medical Foundation (part of the NMA), Black Girl White Coat, Black Men in White Coats, ... many others also exist.

The top schools need diverse classes too, and they have to compete for good applicants like everyone else. The number of Black applicants with your metrics is extremely small (maybe less than 100), and remember that most Black applicants wind up at the HBCU programs, the rest are split among the remaining 140+ allopathic programs... and osteopathic/Caribbean schools get quite a share among those not accepted into an AMCAS program.

Many admissions professionals record videos either on their own or at the behest of influencers on YouTube. I like PremedCC's videos and TMDSAS's library.

The AAMC Virtual Fair was announced for June 3-4.

Upcoming Fairs

virtualfairs.aamc.org

 

[OutOfRoo]

You're rock solid for any of those schools!
Start list with WashU. You can scratch Hofstra and IU. ASU is more for engineering people.
Consider Baylor, UTxSW, U VM, SUNY Stony Brook

I'll take this feedback to heart! Thank you so much

 

[OutOfRoo]

WashU in St. Louis loves high MCATs and is known to offer free rides to applicants with the right numbers. It is a smaller city but if you have Rochester on your list -- 🤷‍♀️

Thank you very much, this is incredibly helpful. WashU was already on my list, but it's now moved to my top priority, especially after @Goro said the same thing. I'll make sure their secondary is my most polished.

I really appreciate you two weighing in.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

With WashU, watch out for the "extra work" you will need to do. They are listed as requiring PREview (while in past years they did some form of recorded interview).

 

[OutOfRoo]

For professional organizations, everything starts with the NMA and the SNMA. Most of the mentoring organizations are started by members of NMA/SNMA. SNMA just had its national conference, but they are very active on social media nationally and among their chapters. Connect with SNMA members at the schools of interest.

Mentoring organizations, I certainly know about the 15 White Coats Foundation, the National Medical Foundation (part of the NMA), Black Girl White Coat, Black Men in White Coats, ... many others also exist.

The top schools need diverse classes too, and they have to compete for good applicants like everyone else. The number of Black applicants with your metrics is extremely small (maybe less than 100), and remember that most Black applicants wind up at the HBCU programs, the rest are split among the remaining 140+ allopathic programs... and osteopathic/Caribbean schools get quite a share among those not accepted into an AMCAS program.

Many admissions professionals record videos either on their own or at the behest of influencers on YouTube. I like PremedCC's videos and TMDSAS's library.

The AAMC Virtual Fair was announced for June 3-4.

Upcoming Fairs

virtualfairs.aamc.org

I didn't respond to this right away because I wanted to actually dig into everything you mentioned before replying. I've since reached out to a few SNMA members at the most high priority schools on my list, and even if just one gets back to me, it'll be well worth it. I've also got the AAMC Virtual Fair on June 3-4 on my calendar.

Seriously, thank you for the depth of your responses throughout this thread. They've been genuinely helpful and given me a lot to act on.

 

[OutOfRoo]

With WashU, watch out for the "extra work" you will need to do. They are listed as requiring PREview (while in past years they did some form of recorded interview).

Post in: 'Second thoughts about taking PREview'

Jun 5, 2024

Voids will be counted against your four lifetime PREview attempts.

We have been told only schools that will require/recommend PREview will receive your scores in real-time (AMCAS guide, according to @wysdoc). We are told that the 37+ schools wanting PREview data for research will not receive those scores until later (likely end-of-cycle).

Our survey results show that since PREview is in such an early stage, it is not clear that low scores will screen you out as one would expect of SJTs. This could change but we need member participation when the next survey comes out.

If you...

• Mr.Smile12

I actually came across this thread from a couple years back where you mentioned that only schools that require or recommend PREview receive scores in real-time, and that non-PREview schools may only see them at the end of the cycle if at all. Do you know if that's still the case in 2026, or has it changed as more schools have adopted the exam?

My concern is this: If I have an otherwise strong application, I don't want to give schools reasons to eliminate me. If I get a middling PREview score and it's only visible to WashU and UCLA, that's one calculus. But if it's sent to the other 25+ schools on my list (none of which ask for it), that's a very different decision about whether the two schools requiring it are worth the risk.

P.S. Sorry for asking so many questions.

 

[mike-sheree]

Don’t let this grueling system intimidate you at all. You have put in a boatload of hard work and I can virtually assure you it will be recognized by an institution that is worthy of getting you. I am not an Adcom, but I have watched this all play out for more than 50 years and I have a very good feel for who “makes it“ and who doesn’t.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I mean - application strength wise, even without you being a URM you're already towards the strong end of pack fodder at top-20 schools, maybe even leaving pack fodder tier entirely. Now, with your experiences, with growing up as a black man and overcoming socioeconomic hurdles?! There's a tiny, tiny handful of people that could compete with you: Navy SEALs, Olympians, people with multiple first-author Nature papers, things like that.

See you at Harvard.

Not even kidding.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Post in: 'Second thoughts about taking PREview'

Jun 5, 2024

Voids will be counted against your four lifetime PREview attempts.

We have been told only schools that will require/recommend PREview will receive your scores in real-time (AMCAS guide, according to @wysdoc). We are told that the 37+ schools wanting PREview data for research will not receive those scores until later (likely end-of-cycle).

Our survey results show that since PREview is in such an early stage, it is not clear that low scores will screen you out as one would expect of SJTs. This could change but we need member participation when the next survey comes out.

If you...

• Mr.Smile12

I actually came across this thread from a couple years back where you mentioned that only schools that require or recommend PREview receive scores in real-time, and that non-PREview schools may only see them at the end of the cycle if at all. Do you know if that's still the case in 2026, or has it changed as more schools have adopted the exam?

My concern is this: If I have an otherwise strong application, I don't want to give schools reasons to eliminate me. If I get a middling PREview score and it's only visible to WashU and UCLA, that's one calculus. But if it's sent to the other 25+ schools on my list (none of which ask for it), that's a very different decision about whether the two schools requiring it are worth the risk.

P.S. Sorry for asking so many questions.

Unfortunately, the medical school admissions teams don't give us clear answers. What I know: PREview scores are part of the AMCAS data stream just like MCAT scores. Each school can have a policy whether they wish to use PREview scores. If they do not, they need to set their applicant management portals to not expose admissions reviewers to the PREview score data.

Is it possible that a small handful of admissions leaders could see your PREview scores? Only if they have permissions during the cycle. But the admissions professionals should live up to their policies and use PREview scores only when permitted. University counsels may ask for confirmation under the threat of severe scrutiny and penalties from our White House/DOJ... so the admissions office cannot be sloppy.

SJTs in Admissions: Research Review | SDN

A review of Situational Judgment Test (SJT) research and their impacts on health professional school admissions.

www.studentdoctor.net