WAMC 520, 3.8, nontrad

[HAVOK14]

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I thought because this cycle hasn't gone too well for me so far that I would get some input for the next cycle given my status at only 1 WL and no upcoming interviews. This would be my third cycle.

I am very aware of what went wrong my first cycle as I applied with almost no EC's to speak of, a late primary because of an MCAT in September, and secondary submissions at the deadlines due to the lack of funds. It was a train-wreck. I am now attempting to take a serious look at the current one.

Personal Info:

• Graduated 2014 from state undergrad
• ORM
• MI resident

2014-2015 Cycle:
(Primary submitted in October and secondaries at school deadlines)

Stats

• 3.8 cGPA
• 3.79 sGPA
• 34 MCAT (11/11/12)

Clinical experience

• 60 hours hospital experience (that's it)

Non-clinical volunteering experience

• 25 hours tutoring

Shadowing

• 25 hours (primary care and surgeon)

School List:

• Case Western
• Central MI
• Johns Hopkins
• Michigan State
• Northwestern
• Oakland
• Stanford
• U MI
• Wayne
• Western

I received rejections to all but Wayne where I got an interview and a waitlist

2019-2020 Cycle:
(Primary verified at end of June and all secondaries submitted by end of August)

Stats

• 3.8 cGPA
• 3.79 sGPA
• 520 MCAT (132/128/130/130)

Clinical experience

• 60 hours hospital experience
• 130 hours hospice volunteering in inpatient care with significant patient contact (including involvement with pediatric patients)
  • Volunteering is ongoing and should hit 340 hours by beginning of June 2020

Non-clinical volunteering experience

• 25 hours tutoring
• 90 hours at Crisis Text Line
  • Volunteering is ongoing and should hit 450 hours by beginning of June 2020

Other experiences

• Tech in a production chemical lab for two years prior to application
  • This is my current job

Shadowing

• 25 hours (primary care and surgeon)
  • Currently working on adding another 20 hours in anesthesiology, and possibly other specialties

School List:

• Case Western - Rejected
• Temple
• Emory
• Virginia Commonwealth - Rejected
• Loyola
• Rosalind Franklin
• Ohio State
• Mayo Clinic (Rochester) - Rejected
• Michigan State - Rejected
• Oakland - Rejected
• U MI - Rejected
• Wayne - Interviewed and Waitlisted
• Western MI - Interviewed and Rejected

My evaluation of what went wrong:

• Still relatively low on ECs, which also don't show long term commitments
• Slow turn around time on secondaries with an average of 4 weeks
• PS that could have had more eyes looking at it
• Secondary essays that could have been better
• Long period without taking additional courses with prereqs being almost 10 years old now
• Poor interview performance, especially in the structured interviews at Western Michigan
• Major red flag in the form of many W's on transcript (10 to be exact)
  • This was caused by serious mental health problems in the later half of my undergrad years that I can't use to explain them even if they have resolved themselves

Given I'm older and nontraditional, where should I go from here?

 

[deleted972488]

Your "evaluation of what went wrong" seems likely to be correct. You should have also applied to more schools.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I thought because this cycle hasn't gone too well for me so far that I would get some input for the next cycle given my status at only 1 WL and no upcoming interviews. This would be my third cycle.

I am very aware of what went wrong my first cycle as I applied with almost no EC's to speak of, a late primary because of an MCAT in September, and secondary submissions at the deadlines due to the lack of funds. It was a train-wreck. I am now attempting to take a serious look at the current one.

Personal Info:

• Graduated 2014 from state undergrad
• ORM
• MI resident

2014-2015 Cycle:
(Primary submitted in October and secondaries at school deadlines)

Stats

• 3.8 cGPA
• 3.79 sGPA
• 34 MCAT (11/11/12)

Clinical experience

• 60 hours hospital experience (that's it)

Non-clinical volunteering experience

• 25 hours tutoring

Shadowing

• 25 hours (primary care and surgeon)

School List:

• Case Western
• Central MI
• Johns Hopkins
• Michigan State
• Northwestern
• Oakland
• Stanford
• U MI
• Wayne
• Western

I received rejections to all but Wayne where I got an interview and a waitlist

2019-2020 Cycle:
(Primary verified at end of June and all secondaries submitted by end of August)

Stats

• 3.8 cGPA
• 3.79 sGPA
• 520 MCAT (132/128/130/130)

Clinical experience

• 60 hours hospital experience
• 130 hours hospice volunteering in inpatient care with significant patient contact (including involvement with pediatric patients)
  • Volunteering is ongoing and should hit 340 hours by beginning of June 2020

Non-clinical volunteering experience

• 25 hours tutoring
• 90 hours at Crisis Text Line
  • Volunteering is ongoing and should hit 450 hours by beginning of June 2020

Other experiences

• Tech in a production chemical lab for two years prior to application
  • This is my current job

Shadowing

• 25 hours (primary care and surgeon)
  • Currently working on adding another 20 hours in anesthesiology, and possibly other specialties

School List:

• Case Western - Rejected
• Temple
• Emory
• Virginia Commonwealth - Rejected
• Loyola
• Rosalind Franklin
• Ohio State
• Mayo Clinic (Rochester) - Rejected
• Michigan State - Rejected
• Oakland - Rejected
• U MI - Rejected
• Wayne - Interviewed and Waitlisted
• Western MI - Interviewed and Rejected

My evaluation of what went wrong:

• Still relatively low on ECs, which also don't show long term commitments
• Slow turn around time on secondaries with an average of 4 weeks
• PS that could have had more eyes looking at it
• Secondary essays that could have been better
• Long period without taking additional courses with prereqs being almost 10 years old now
• Poor interview performance, especially in the structured interviews at Western Michigan
• Major red flag in the form of many W's on transcript (10 to be exact)
  • This was caused by serious mental health problems in the later half of my undergrad years that I can't use to explain them even if they have resolved themselves

Given I'm older and nontraditional, where should I go from here?

Why no DO schools? You are a reapplicant, non-traditional/older prospective student. DO schools in general have a reputation of being more accommodating to older, non-traditional applicants. I also suspect something about the way you are marketing your experiences and their meaningfulness is not resonating. Have you networked with students and admissions staff at your in-state schools and talked with students who have a similar background to yours as a non-traditional/older student? I will agree that your academic history may be challenging, especially with your W's though I would need to understand your high GPA calculations.

 

[HAVOK14]

Why no DO schools? You are a reapplicant, non-traditional/older prospective student. DO schools in general have a reputation of being more accommodating to older, non-traditional applicants. I also suspect something about the way you are marketing your experiences and their meaningfulness is not resonating. Have you networked with students and admissions staff at your in-state schools and talked with students who have a similar background to yours as a non-traditional/older student? I will agree that your academic history may be challenging, especially with your W's though I would need to understand your high GPA calculations.

At the time, I didn't believe I needed to apply to DO, which I was obviously wrong about. In addition, I didn't have a convincing reason why I wanted to be DO vs an MD, or any DO shadowing for that matter.

I have not networked with the admissions staff or students at my in-state schools. I hadn't thought to do that, or how I would go about it.

What would you need to know about the GPA calculations?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

At the time, I didn't believe I needed to apply to DO, which I was obviously wrong about. In addition, I didn't have a convincing reason why I wanted to be DO vs an MD, or any DO shadowing for that matter.

I have not networked with the admissions staff or students at my in-state schools. I hadn't thought to do that, or how I would go about it.

What would you need to know about the GPA calculations?

Networking: in Michigan there are recruitment fairs each semester on campuses throughout the state. I'm also sure each school hosts a recruiting day. You should have gone to those events. You also interviewed at some schools, so which students gave you their emails for followup?

Grades: what biomedical courses do you have W's? What biomedical courses did you have recorded grades?

Shadowing: how many hours will be recorded by the time you submit a new application in June?

Letters from professors?

Sent from my SM-N960U using SDN mobile

 

[HAVOK14]

Networking: in Michigan there are recruitment fairs each semester on campuses throughout the state. I'm also sure each school hosts a recruiting day. You should have gone to those events. You also interviewed at some schools, so which students gave you their emails for followup?

Grades: what biomedical courses do you have W's? What biomedical courses did you have recorded grades?

Shadowing: how many hours will be recorded by the time you submit a new application in June?

Letters from professors?

Sent from my SM-N960U using SDN mobile

Networking: I will have to look into attending those. I haven't given much thought to the recruiting fairs that the schools have been hosting. I will have to go back at the notes I took and see if I can find the email addresses.

Grades:

Withdrawals (BCPM):
Human Anatomy
Biochem I & Lab
Statistical Methods
Intro to Diffeq
Immunology
Intro Astrophysics
Physics III

Recorded Grades:
Calc II
Bio I
Chem I & Lab
Bio II
Chem II & Lab
Calc III
Orgo I & Lab
Physics I & Lab
Genetics
Orgo II
Physics II & Lab
Microbio
Analytical Chem & Lab
P Chem I & Lab
Virology
Human Physiology
Neurobiology
Medicinal Chemistry
Cell Biology
Intro Biochem & Lab
Human Anatomy
Intro to Stats

Shadowing: I hope to have 50 hours of shadowing by June.

Letters:
Orgo professor, English professor, and a recommendation from my former supervisor at my job

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Networking: I will have to look into attending those. I haven't given much thought to the recruiting fairs that the schools have been hosting. I will have to go back at the notes I took and see if I can find the email addresses.

Grades:

Withdrawals (BCPM):
Human Anatomy
Biochem I & Lab
Statistical Methods
Intro to Diffeq
Immunology
Intro Astrophysics
Physics III

Recorded Grades:
Calc II
Bio I
Chem I & Lab
Bio II
Chem II & Lab
Calc III
Orgo I & Lab
Physics I & Lab
Genetics
Orgo II
Physics II & Lab
Microbio
Analytical Chem & Lab
P Chem I & Lab
Virology
Human Physiology
Neurobiology
Medicinal Chemistry
Cell Biology
Intro Biochem & Lab
Human Anatomy
Intro to Stats

Shadowing: I hope to have 50 hours of shadowing by June.

Letters:
Orgo professor, English professor, and a recommendation from my former supervisor at my job

Hmm... it seems like you could have had a major change? Why W on Biochem I with lab, replacing with Intro Biochem? You look like you have a chemistry major in progress so I don't know what the difference in class title means. Also I guess you dropped differential equations because you didn't need it?

You did say you had inconsistent course loads. I'm not sure how all admissions committees will think about it so I suggest networking with admissions recruiters for help.

Shadowing still seems a little light but I defer to others' judgment.

Sent from my SM-N960U using SDN mobile

 

[HAVOK14]

Hmm... it seems like you could have had a major change? Why W on Biochem I with lab, replacing with Intro Biochem? You look like you have a chemistry major in progress so I don't know what the difference in class title means. Also I guess you dropped differential equations because you didn't need it?

You did say you had inconsistent course loads. I'm not sure how all admissions committees will think about it so I suggest networking with admissions recruiters for help.

Shadowing still seems a little light but I defer to others' judgment.

Sent from my SM-N960U using SDN mobile

That’s basically right. I was a double major in biochem and biomed up until that point. I dropped the biochem and graduated with biomed.

Thank you for your thoughts on it. I think Michigan State gives meetings after rejection to go over their applications. I will start there to get an idea.

What number of hours would you think would be good?

 

[Faha]

More shadowing, clinical and non clinical volunteering hours will increase your chances for more interviews. I suggest these schools when you reapply:
Wayne State
Michigan State
Central Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Toledo
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
TCU-UNT
Kaiser
California University
NOVA MD
USF Morsani
Miami
Wake Forest
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Seton Hall
Hofstra
Einstein
New York Medical College
Albany
Rochester
Pittsburgh
Washington University
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts
Cincinnati
Also apply to at least 6 DO schools and include MSUCOM, MU-COM and CCOM
Apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July.

 

[HAVOK14]

More shadowing, clinical and non clinical volunteering hours will increase your chances for more interviews. I suggest these schools when you reapply:
Wayne State
Michigan State
Central Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Toledo
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
TCU-UNT
Kaiser
California University
NOVA MD
USF Morsani
Miami
Wake Forest
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Seton Hall
Hofstra
Einstein
New York Medical College
Albany
Rochester
Pittsburgh
Washington University
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts
Cincinnati
Also apply to at least 6 DO schools and include MSUCOM, MU-COM and CCOM
Apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July.

Thank you!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What number of hours would you think would be good?

On shadowing, the floor should be 50 hours and the bulk majority of applicants will have much more. You've at least got primary care covered, so different clinic environments (specialties, free clinics outside hospital care) would be helpful.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Yeah, next year you should be pretty strong although the Ws might give people pause. IIRC, LizzyM counsels students that have had health issues like yours that you've had some medical/health issues that've resolved themselves. Maybe if you are really, really gunning for the MD you might do a DIY postbacc? If not, apply broadly MD and DO: everything from Harvard to the half-dozen DO schools you need on your list. You should be okay like that. The low volunteering is killing you but you'll have that fixed next cycle.

 

[HAVOK14]

Yeah, next year you should be pretty strong although the Ws might give people pause. IIRC, LizzyM counsels students that have had health issues like yours that you've had some medical/health issues that've resolved themselves. Maybe if you are really, really gunning for the MD you might do a DIY postbacc? If not, apply broadly MD and DO: everything from Harvard to the half-dozen DO schools you need on your list. You should be okay like that. The low volunteering is killing you but you'll have that fixed next cycle.

This is part of why I wanted to post. I wasn’t sure if I show reapply after a DIY postbacc or SMP. I was hopping though that improvements to my EC’s would be enough.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

How strongly are you gunning for the MD/a top-20 MD? If you're fine with DO, the EC improvements are more than enough. You even have a shot at MD, maybe top-tier if you're lucky. A DIY postbacc would just assuage doubts about all those withdrawals. You do not need an SMP. Your case is an unusual one, though; maybe adcoms @Moko @LizzyM @Goro @Catalystik and @gyngyn could potentially help you here. Good luck.

 

[Goro]

I think that the recommendations above cover everything the OP needs