WAMC: URM 3.7 cGPA, 521 MCAT, 2 IAs

[triedtowalk]

Hello, I graduated in May 2023 and plan to apply in the 2024-2025 cycle. I would appreciate any suggestions for schools to apply to/whether I should apply. I have 2 IAs back from late 2019, both within ~1 week of each other. The first IA was for underage intoxication. The second IA was a deferred suspension (not on my transcript, but the deferred suspension meant that getting in trouble again would lead to an actual suspension)--I was at an airport, and (very stupidly) made a social media post stating that I wanted to take the airplane that I would board and fly it to another country to meet some celebrities I was interested in. The post was reported to administration at my university. As part of the deferred suspension, I completed 30 hours community service and met with a therapist weekly for 5 months.

1. cGPA, sGPA
cGPA: 3.70, sGPA: 3.70

2. MCAT score and breakdown
MCAT: 521 (130, 128, 131, 132)

3. State of residence
Illinois resident

4. Ethnicity/race
URM (Afro-Latino, native fluency in Spanish) does URM status even matter anymore?

5. Undergrad institution
T10 undergrad, private

6. Clinical employment
500 hours medical scribe, 700 hours resident assistant at nursing home (not sure whether this is clinical or non-clinical)

7. Research experience/productivity
1000 hours clinical research addressing dementia care in older adults. 2 abstract presentations at national conferences, working on one first-author publication. I am very interested in geriatric care, and want to make that a theme in my application.

300 hours wet-lab research on gut-brain axis in Parkinson's Disease. No posters/presentations, was mostly there because I wanted to learn about different lab techniques as well as PD pathophysiology (related to geriatrics).

100 hours clinical research on heart failure treatment at a clinic whose patient population was mostly older adults.

8. Shadowing experience
100 hours cardiology
8 hours hospital medicine
8 hours neurology
8 hours urology
8 hours internal medicine

9. Non-clinical volunteering
110 hours food bank volunteering, I plan on adding ~300 hours between now and the 2024/2025 cycle.

10. Other extracurricular activities
~2500 hours varsity (D3) athlete
~70 hours biochemistry TA
~220 hours peer study consultant (mentoring new students who struggled adjusting to increased demands of college academics)
~100 hours peer tutoring

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[Mr.Smile12]

Be honest with your IAs. Work with student conduct for the proper language.

 

[triedtowalk]

Be honest with your IAs. Work with student conduct for the proper language.

Thanks for your response! I definitely don't plan on hiding the IAs. While they're not on my transcript, they are on my disciplinary record. Do you have any suggestions about schools I should target?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for your response! I definitely don't plan on hiding the IAs. While they're not on my transcript, they are on my disciplinary record. Do you have any suggestions about schools I should target?

What is your list? What are your priorities to becoming a doctor?

 

[triedtowalk]

What is your list? What are your priorities to becoming a doctor?

I am really interested in geriatric care, and I think this stems from: (1) working in nursing homes and interactions with elderly adults who often feel that they've been abandoned by their families; (2) learning from my ongoing research project that dementia isn't really taken seriously in the primary care setting. My current school list is as follows:

Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Albany Medical College
Case Western
Central Michigan University College of Medicine
Creighton University School of Medicine
Drexel University College of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai

 

[Faha]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Case Western
Creighton University School of Medicine
Drexel University College of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
You could add these schools:
Rosalind Franklin
TCU
USF Morsani
Miami
Tulane
Georgetown
Temple
Jefferson
Hackensack
Einstein
New York Medical College
Vermont
Tufts
Boston University

 

[triedtowalk]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Case Western
Creighton University School of Medicine
Drexel University College of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
You could add these schools:
Rosalind Franklin
TCU
USF Morsani
Miami
Tulane
Georgetown
Temple
Jefferson
Hackensack
Einstein
New York Medical College
Vermont
Tufts
Boston University

Thanks for the list! Two questions:
1.) Is this list based just on my GPA/MCAT or does it consider other things I mentioned in my post?
2.) Do you think I will need to apply DO as well?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Will you go for

Thanks for the list! Two questions:
1.) Is this list based just on my GPA/MCAT or does it consider other things I mentioned in my post?
2.) Do you think I will need to apply DO as well?

You should not have to apply to DO unless you have a strong mission focus that aligns with DO's and don't want to risk being a reapplicant.

What is your mission fit with the schools on your list? The in-states are a given. The more hours at the food bank or similar service orientation activities you do that exceed 500 hours, the more probable you can add Rush, where there is a center for aging (Professional Education). Find out what schools their residents represent and what opportunities would position you best.

 

[triedtowalk]

Will you go for

You should not have to apply to DO unless you have a strong mission focus that aligns with DO's and don't want to risk being a reapplicant.

What is your mission fit with the schools on your list? The in-states are a given. The more hours at the food bank or similar service orientation activities you do that exceed 500 hours, the more probable you can add Rush, where there is a center for aging (Professional Education). Find out what schools their residents represent and what opportunities would position you best.

As for mission fit with the schools on my list, I really just used MSAR to choose schools that are in my GPA/MCAT range—I feel that given my IAs, I can’t be choosy? Maybe this is the wrong approach.
I didn’t know that about Rush, thanks for letting me know! I will try to get my volunteering hours at least that high.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

As for mission fit with the schools on my list, I really just used MSAR to choose schools that are in my GPA/MCAT range—I feel that given my IAs, I can’t be choosy? Maybe this is the wrong approach.
I didn’t know that about Rush, thanks for letting me know! I will try to get my volunteering hours at least that high.

No problem... just mentioning they REALLY like service-focused applicants with hundreds/thousands of hours. The rest of your list would probably be okay with your current profile, but the more non-clinical community service hours, the better.

 

[triedtowalk]

No problem... just mentioning they REALLY like service-focused applicants with hundreds/thousands of hours. The rest of your list would probably be okay with your current profile, but the more non-clinical community service hours, the better.

I will keep that in mind. Just one more question: if I am able to properly word descriptions for my IAs (being clear about what I learned, etc.), do you think they will significantly hold me back? I know all admissions committees are different, so if you aren’t able to provide an answer that’s okay.

 

[Faha]

As for mission fit with the schools on my list, I really just used MSAR to choose schools that are in my GPA/MCAT range—I feel that given my IAs, I can’t be choosy? Maybe this is the wrong approach.
I didn’t know that about Rush, thanks for letting me know! I will try to get my volunteering hours at least that high.

Yes, with your IAs you need to include more "safety" schools. For the majority of schools the IAs may not matter but you do not know at which schools it may matter.

 

[triedtowalk]

Yes, with your IAs you need to include more "safety" schools. For the majority of schools the IAs may not matter but you do not know at which schools it may matter.

That’s comforting to hear—I had assumed that the IAs would pretty much exclude me from any school

 

[Mr.Smile12]

That’s comforting to hear—I had assumed that the IAs would pretty much exclude me from any school

Not all IA's are the same, and often IA's are reviewed by a select committee that includes diversity/inclusion, student services, clinical education, and legal counsel. Often IA's are retracted information that standard adcoms will not know about.

 

[triedtowalk]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Case Western
Creighton University School of Medicine
Drexel University College of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
You could add these schools:
Rosalind Franklin
TCU
USF Morsani
Miami
Tulane
Georgetown
Temple
Jefferson
Hackensack
Einstein
New York Medical College
Vermont
Tufts
Boston University

Hi, sorry for the random follow-up but I’m taking another look at this list after reviewing the MSAR and noticed that you still suggested Feinberg despite their 10th percentile GPA being 3.74. I am in-state, but should I remove this school? Or will my URM status maybe play a role in increasing my odds?

I also wanted to ask what you think about adding these two schools: Brown and University of Michigan? I read a little bit about Brown’s concentration in aging and Michigan’s geriatrics center, both of which really interest me. You mentioned that I need to apply carefully due to my IAs, so would it be stupid to apply to these two? Thanks!

Any advice from @Mr.Smile12 would be appreciated as well!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Hi, sorry for the random follow-up but I’m taking another look at this list after reviewing the MSAR and noticed that you still suggested Feinberg despite their 10th percentile GPA being 3.74. I am in-state, but should I remove this school? Or will my URM status maybe play a role in increasing my odds?

Maybe it wasn't clear to me if you ever contacted their admissions staff before applying. Naturally, being from Illinois and from a disadvantaged background makes any in-state school a possibility even if your stats are not at the average of all matriculating students. (Someone had to be below the average.)

Hard to tell without mission fit otherwise.

I also wanted to ask what you think about adding these two schools: Brown and University of Michigan? I read a little bit about Brown’s concentration in aging and Michigan’s geriatrics center, both of which really interest me. You mentioned that I need to apply carefully due to my IAs, so would it be stupid to apply to these two? Thanks!

Any advice from @Mr.Smile12 would be appreciated as well!

So I think those programs are solid and should be on your radar if you decide to go into geriatrics. I'll let others comment on the metrics and being an OOS URM candidate.

There is a tendency that Brown Med seems to pick mostly students from Ivy-level institutions.

UMichigan maybe. The university culture is very important so i don't know if that's something you can adjust to. Being an athlete probably helps you. Have you contacted them? What is your personal journey to the profession?

Since we are applying in 2025, take this time now to check out the culture of the schools you are enthusiastic about. Orientation is finishing. Attend recruiting events. Reach out to students through SNMA or any connections with geriatrics from your research.

 

[Faha]

Hi, sorry for the random follow-up but I’m taking another look at this list after reviewing the MSAR and noticed that you still suggested Feinberg despite their 10th percentile GPA being 3.74. I am in-state, but should I remove this school? Or will my URM status maybe play a role in increasing my odds?

I also wanted to ask what you think about adding these two schools: Brown and University of Michigan? I read a little bit about Brown’s concentration in aging and Michigan’s geriatrics center, both of which really interest me. You mentioned that I need to apply carefully due to my IAs, so would it be stupid to apply to these two? Thanks!

Any advice from @Mr.Smile12 would be appreciated as well!

A URM applicant with a 517 MCAT and a 3.7 GPA is competitive for those schools.

 

[triedtowalk]

Maybe it wasn't clear to me if you ever contacted their admissions staff before applying. Naturally, being from Illinois and from a disadvantaged background makes any in-state school a possibility even if your stats are not at the average of all matriculating students. (Someone had to be below the average.)

Hard to tell without mission fit otherwise.


So I think those programs are solid and should be on your radar if you decide to go into geriatrics. I'll let others comment on the metrics and being an OOS URM candidate.

There is a tendency that Brown Med seems to pick mostly students from Ivy-level institutions.

UMichigan maybe. The university culture is very important so i don't know if that's something you can adjust to. Being an athlete probably helps you. Have you contacted them? What is your personal journey to the profession?

Since we are applying in 2025, take this time now to check out the culture of the schools you are enthusiastic about. Orientation is finishing. Attend recruiting events. Reach out to students through SNMA or any connections with geriatrics from your research.

Thanks for your response! I have not applied yet, my first cycle will be 2024/2025. I wasn’t aware of Brown’s preference for Ivy undergrads. My undergrad wasn’t an Ivy, but it’s up there among the Ivies.

I haven’t contacted any schools yet, but will take your advice and start doing so. Also, your question about my personal journey to the profession: I’m not sure if you’re asking about medicine in general or geriatrics specifically, but I mentioned in a previous comment that my research experience really pointed out to me that there’s a lot of work to be done in making sure that dementia is treated properly.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for your response! I have not applied yet, my first cycle will be 2024/2025. I wasn’t aware of Brown’s preference for Ivy undergrads. My undergrad wasn’t an Ivy, but it’s up there among the Ivies.

I haven’t contacted any schools yet, but will take your advice and start doing so. Also, your question about my personal journey to the profession: I’m not sure if you’re asking about medicine in general or geriatrics specifically, but I mentioned in a previous comment that my research experience really pointed out to me that there’s a lot of work to be done in making sure that dementia is treated properly.

You're on the right track. I would suggest getting way more nonclinical volunteering. Continue to get to 300+ hours by the time you apply in food distribution, perhaps housing rehabilitation (which many seniors need help with).

 

[triedtowalk]

@Faha @Mr.Smile12 I’m sorry to bring this thread up again but I have an update that I think might change school suggestions.

I initially mentioned I scored a 517 MCAT, but that was actually the score I was getting on practice exams.

I received my actual MCAT score today and scored a 521 (lowest section 128). I’m really happy with this score and can’t be grateful enough to God. With this score, are there any changes I should make to the school list mentioned earlier? As always, I really do appreciate the time both of you take to respond to questions. Thanks!

 

[LunaOri]

With the 521, I think you have a shot at any school to which you would like to apply. Good luck!

 

[Faha]

@Faha @Mr.Smile12 I’m sorry to bring this thread up again but I have an update that I think might change school suggestions.

I initially mentioned I scored a 517 MCAT, but that was actually the score I was getting on practice exams.

I received my actual MCAT score today and scored a 521 (lowest section 128). I’m really happy with this score and can’t be grateful enough to God. With this score, are there any changes I should make to the school list mentioned earlier? As always, I really do appreciate the time both of you take to respond to questions. Thanks!

You could add Washington University (in St. Louis) to my list above.

 

[triedtowalk]

With the 521, I think you have a shot at any school to which you would like to apply. Good luck!

Even with my IAs? I really appreciate you saying that, but I’m having trouble believing that I’m still a competitive applicant.

 

[LunaOri]

Even with my IAs? I really appreciate you saying that, but I’m having trouble believing that I’m still a competitive applicant.

I Forgot about those! You will need to own your behavior and show evidence of growth and maturity.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'll take the "maybe" tag off of my suggestion of Michigan, and I'd also include WashUSTL.

Faha's list still looks good, but now we may have to think a little on possible yield protection schools. Pick the public non-IL programs where you want to attend should you get picked out as an OOS candidate for interview.

As noted, own the IA's, and let's just see what happens.

 

[triedtowalk]

@Mr.Smile12 @Faha Sorry to bring this thread up a third time, but I do have some activity updates and am wondering what your thoughts are on my finalized school list:

Since my last post, I'm at around 1000 hours scribing, and have added approximately 200 hours of food bank volunteering. Also, beginning last summer, I have volunteered as an English tutor for the elderly Spanish-speaking congregation at my local church (the church is a Spanish-language church, and much of the congregation are older people who migrated to the United States as adults and so their English literacy is really limited). It's actually been pretty enjoyable to put my Spanish fluency to use outside of my family. I've accumulated approximately 90 hours here--can I count this as non-clinical volunteering?

Below is my tentative school list--I've highlighted schools which I hadn't considered earlier in this thread. In light of my IAs, should I add more schools?

Loyola
WashU
UI COM
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Case Western
Creighton
Einstein
Drexel
Emory
Quinnipiac
Dartmouth
George Washington
Mount Sinai
UMich
Rush

I would like to avoid Rosalind Franklin.
As always, I really appreciate your input! Thank you!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Seems plausible, but I don't keep the lists.

Register for the webinar scheduled for next week, just in case:

Athletes in Medicine

Athletes in Medicine (AiM) is dedicated to supporting and inspiring athletes as they pursue a career in medicine.

www.athletesinmedicine.org

 

[triedtowalk]

Seems plausible, but I don't keep the lists.

Register for the webinar scheduled for next week, just in case:

Athletes in Medicine

Athletes in Medicine (AiM) is dedicated to supporting and inspiring athletes as they pursue a career in medicine.

www.athletesinmedicine.org

Thanks for the resource, I didn't even know something like that existed! Just to be clear: the 90 hours of English tutoring can count as non-clinical volunteering? I'm hesitant to categorize it as teaching just because I've seen others who've done community-type ESL stuff categorize it as volunteering.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for the resource, I didn't even know something like that existed! Just to be clear: the 90 hours of English tutoring can count as non-clinical volunteering? I'm hesitant to categorize it as teaching just because I've seen others who've done community-type ESL stuff categorize it as volunteering.

I'll see what others think, but I am fine with you classifying the English classes you are doing with your church as non-clinical volunteering. It may be changed at the discretion of faculty reviewing your application, but that depends on the rubrics we use.

If you attend, let us know what you think. Their marketing focuses a lot on Div1 athletes, but I figure you all need similar help.

 

[triedtowalk]

I'll see what others think, but I am fine with you classifying the English classes you are doing with your church as non-clinical volunteering. It may be changed at the discretion of faculty reviewing your application, but that depends on the rubrics we use.

If you attend, let us know what you think. Their marketing focuses a lot on Div1 athletes, but I figure you all need similar help.

I see. If that's the case, I might just go ahead and categorize it as teaching instead since I don't want adcoms thinking I'm trying to inflate my hours. Also, I do plan on attending the AiM webinar: funnily enough, even though my undergrad was a premed factory, they didn't have much targeted support for different groups like athletes

 

[Faha]

You should add more schools and include those I listed above.

 

[triedtowalk]

I Forgot about those! You will need to own your behavior and show evidence of growth and maturity.

@LunaOri Looking back at your reply, if I am able to make it evident that I’ve matured since my IAs and that they are not reflective of my current character (I’ve had mentorship/leadership roles and a scot-free disciplinary record since then), do you think that the IAs will be a significant detractor from my application? Of course, I understand that all adcoms might be different but I would still appreciate your insight.

 

[LunaOri]

The alcohol violation will have absolutely no effect. The other will depend on the school, and on who reads your application. Since it’s been 5 years and your record has been clean, it may be okay at many schools. It sure does show poor judgment, so you need to be clear that you have moved beyond that.

 

[triedtowalk]

The alcohol violation will have absolutely no effect. The other will depend on the school, and on who reads your application. Since it’s been 5 years and your record has been clean, it may be okay at many schools. It sure does show poor judgment, so you need to be clear that you have moved beyond that.

Thanks, this is a bit reassuring. I’m trying to keep myself from feeling defeated before even applying since I can’t change the past, but I know this will still give some schools pause in considering my application which makes me really upset with myself

 

[triedtowalk]

beginning last summer, I have volunteered as an English tutor for the elderly Spanish-speaking congregation at my local church (the church is a Spanish-language church, and much of the congregation are older people who migrated to the United States as adults and so their English literacy is really limited). It's actually been pretty enjoyable to put my Spanish fluency to use outside of my family. I've accumulated approximately 90 hours here--can I count this as non-clinical volunteering?

@LizzyM would you be able to offer your opinion on categorizing this as volunteering VS. teaching?

Also, do you have any insight on how the admissions committee at your particular school would view my past IAs? I’ve been told by others that the alcohol one is unremarkable, but that the second one (explained in at the top of the thread) may be more controversial. Are there any mitigating factors in my profile (stats, URM, leadership) that might encourage schools to not dump my application in the trash? I’ve lost sleep over the past few months at the thought that this could very well prevent me from ever being a doctor. Thank you in advance.

Just to clarify on my URM status in case the term ‘Afro-Latino’ is a bit fuzzy, I’m 100% Black and 100% Latino (my parents are Black from Spanish-speaking countries)

 

[KaiBuzz]

If you attended a top 10 LAC or UChicago/MIT, Brown and UMich will love you. Were you captain of your DIII team?

 

[triedtowalk]

If you attended a top 10 LAC or UChicago/MIT, Brown and UMich will love you. Were you captain of your DIII team?

I did not attend a liberal arts university. My undergrad is a T10 pre-med factory notorious for GPA deflation, and the med school associated with it is a T5. You might be able to guess. I was a two-sport athlete, but was not captain of either team. Would that have given me a boost?

 

[LunaOri]

I think you are being too hard on yourself right now. Why not meet with someone on the adcom at the medical school associated with your university, and ask them how this IA would affect your application?

 

[triedtowalk]

I think you are being too hard on yourself right now. Why not meet with someone on the adcom at the medical school associated with your university, and ask them how this IA would affect your application?

I honestly hadn't even considered that—I'll give that a try. I know I'm being hard on myself, but whenever I remember that most applicants don't even have one, let alone two, IAs, I just feel super hopeless about my odds.

 

[LizzyM]

The alcohol thing as a freshman -- nothing to worry about!
The social media post about wanting to hijack a plane to see a celebrity.... that is wacky and I'm surprised that your school considered in an IA -- on the other hand, I'm even more surprised that the TSA didn't take you into custody. In any case, it might bring a bit of levity to the adcom meeting where your IA is reviewed. It is just wacky but clearly you learned a lesson.

I would call using your Spanish language skills to help elderly non-English speaking immigrants as "volunteering, non-clinical". I don't believe that anyone expects the older folks to be able to learn English with some tutoring.... I wouldn't consider it padding your non-clinical volunteering which you have covered with the food pantry or whatever that other thing is.

Good luck!

 

[triedtowalk]

The alcohol thing as a freshman -- nothing to worry about!
The social media post about wanting to hijack a plane to see a celebrity.... that is wacky and I'm surprised that your school considered in an IA -- on the other hand, I'm even more surprised that the TSA didn't take you into custody. In any case, it might bring a bit of levity to the adcom meeting where your IA is reviewed. It is just wacky but clearly you learned a lesson.

I would call using your Spanish language skills to help elderly non-English speaking immigrants as "volunteering, non-clinical". I don't believe that anyone expects the older folks to be able to learn English with some tutoring.... I wouldn't consider it padding your non-clinical volunteering which you have covered with the food pantry or whatever that other thing is.

Good luck!

Thank you! It's seriously a huge huge relief to hear this! It was a wacky situation, but it definitely scared me straight and I've significantly scaled back my social media use.