(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[yoyohomieg5432]

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You are in good shape. I think your stats are good enough where you don't necessarily need a year off for research. My recommendation would be to introduce yourself to your home department and start working on some research

So you don't think there will be a red flag in my application since all of my research is in radiology? I thought derm was a field where they really cared that most of your research was derm specific?

 

[asmallchild]

So you don't think there will be a red flag in my application since all of my research is in radiology? I thought derm was a field where they really cared that most of your research was derm specific?

I think there will be if you only apply with the research you have now. Like I said, your stats are good enough but you will definitely need some derm-specific research before you apply. You can work on this as an MS3 or if you are really hardcore, you can take a year off to do derm-specific research before continuing as an MS4.

If your plan is to only proceed with the research you currently have, then yes, that would be a problem. Radiology research won't do you any good. (Conversely, it won't hurt to have that listed so long as most of your other research is derm-specific)

 

[yoyohomieg5432]

I think there will be if you only apply with the research you have now. Like I said, your stats are good enough but you will definitely need some derm-specific research before you apply. You can work on this as an MS3 or if you are really hardcore, you can take a year off to do derm-specific research before continuing as an MS4.

If your plan is to only proceed with the research you currently have, then yes, that would be a problem. Radiology research won't do you any good. (Conversely, it won't hurt to have that listed so long as most of your other research is derm-specific)

but i guess my question is this.. in the AAMC somewhere it says that the average person to match derm had like 10 research things. is that 10 all derm specific or mixed? Because if it's 10 derm specific there is no way I can get to that during M3 year. but if it's 10 total, I will approach that with my current research and hopefully this year try and get a poster/publication derm related. but there's no way I can do 3 years worth of derm research that some people apply with in just my M3 year.

 

[username456789]

I matched Derm with like a case report in Derm and some BS project that was way early and hardly with mentioning, but with a couple pubs in a different field as well.

The feedback I got at interviews was that it was great to see I had some productive research experience and that I was also applying that towards the field of dermatology.

 

[MilkIsGood]

that number is pulled up by all the md/phd, research year, or ridiculously awesome top tier applicants. the "avg" derm applicant that goes straight through med school doesnt have that many.

 

[nlemme10]

So a little late in the game( 4 months into 3rd year) but i have started to consider derm. 255 on Step 1 and about 18 publications( 3 papers, 12 posters and 3 oral presentations), the only problem is none of my research is in dermatology. I know i still have time to get a poster or case report out in dermatology, but how important is it to have alot of research that is derm specific. Also given my stats will i be a competitive applicant even though i am considering derm late in the game. Any advice would be great.

 

[asmallchild]

So a little late in the game( 4 months into 3rd year) but i have started to consider derm. 255 on Step 1 and about 18 publications( 3 papers, 12 posters and 3 oral presentations), the only problem is none of my research is in dermatology. I know i still have time to get a poster or case report out in dermatology, but how important is it to have alot of research that is derm specific. Also given my stats will i be a competitive applicant even though i am considering derm late in the game. Any advice would be great.

It always helps for the research to be in dermatology.

1) Research in other fields is not likely to generate much conversation during your interview (having a long list of publications on your application is nice. But in the end, it will be a faculty member that ranks you. If you have something to connect with your interviewer, that will help)
2) A big part of doing the research is making connections with bigwigs who can write you a LOR or work behind the scenes to get you a position

Your stats are fine. I would just work on some derm-specific research if you feel you are interested in derm.

 

[DermGirlDoc]

Hi, I'm applying for Derm 2017 match. Am I making a fruitless attempt? I'm also applying for IM and Transitional/Prelim as back up
IMG Graduate
Med School - top college from home country graduated in 2001
Post Graduate in Dermatology in 2009 - Graduated 2nd in class.
Worked extensively in rural and under privileged communities out of choice.
No gaps in clinical career.
Circumstances brought me to US. So I'm applying in US to get board certification.
Step 1: 233
Step 2 CK: 231
Step 2 CS: Pass
Research: None published, but collaborated with local health official to conduct research for better policy formulation
Extras: Permanent on-call physician providing free services for differently abled residential school for under privileged and orphan children.
Have a bit of US observership and few months of research experience and LORs.
Am I trying to catch the clouds here? I wonder if I have any chance to get into a derm program so that I can continue in derm field.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, I'm applying for Derm 2017 match. Am I making a fruitless attempt? I'm also applying for IM and Transitional/Prelim as back up
IMG Graduate
Med School - top college from home country graduated in 2001
Post Graduate in Dermatology in 2009 - Graduated 2nd in class.
Worked extensively in rural and under privileged communities out of choice.
No gaps in clinical career.
Circumstances brought me to US. So I'm applying in US to get board certification.
Step 1: 233
Step 2 CK: 231
Step 2 CS: Pass
Research: None published, but collaborated with local health official to conduct research for better policy formulation
Extras: Permanent on-call physician providing free services for differently abled residential school for under privileged and orphan children.
Have a bit of US observership and few months of research experience and LORs.
Am I trying to catch the clouds here? I wonder if I have any chance to get into a derm program so that I can continue in derm field.

If it is your dream, it's worth a shot. As you already know, you are fighting uphill as your Step 1 scores and research will likely not match up with your fellow applicants. I think it is a good idea to have a backup plan.

If your interest is solely in dermatology, you would likely need some additional research experience (with a program that has a history of matching its research fellows)

 

[DermResident]

If it is your dream, it's worth a shot. As you already know, you are fighting uphill as your Step 1 scores and research will likely not match up with your fellow applicants. I think it is a good idea to have a backup plan.

If your interest is solely in dermatology, you would likely need some additional research experience (with a program that has a history of matching its research fellows)

(S)He's also an International Medical Graduate...chances are slim to none at best.

 

[asmallchild]

(S)He's also an International Medical Graduate...chances are slim to none at best.

I have met IMGs (although they typically have much higher Step 1 scores) who have gone on to match in dermatology. They have all had significant lab research time (think 5+ years) and it is usually the program associated with the research lab that ends up taking them on as a resident.

Whether or not it is worth dedicating that kind of time to a research lab with no guarantee of matching is up to each individual applicant.

 

[DermGirlDoc]

Thanks for you input folks. Research took at back seat because I was serving in underprivileged areas and not some urban hospital. I'm hoping some PD will look at my years of derm clinical experience and knowledge.
I'm also applying to Trans/Prelim so I can give a shot at advanced derm next year, but If I get IM I'll take it. I'm a bit surprised that research is such a big factor.

 

[zhopv10]

Alright everyone here's the scoop: I'm a MSIII who has, up until this point, been pretty set on Radonc. Ive recently been exploring some other options however. I've always like working with cancer patients, and enjoyed the science that goes into oncology, so much of my extracurriculars/research has involved that/Radonc. Mixed in was a fair amount of work at a free clinic that I also really enjoyed and got involved in the leadership of. Anyway, I've been intrigued by derm as I like the idea of the quick paced (in general) workflow, having a lot of diagnostic work along with tx's (vs all tx in Radonc), working with a variety of pts instead of one type, and being able to work/do research in cancer, yet also have the flexibility to do research/work in other areas as well. Unfortunately I haven't yet been able to schedule more than a couple of shadowing experiences to really get a feel for the day to day feel of derm, so there is still a little question as to that, hopefully that is going to be resolved soon.

So that is where I'm coming from a little bit. Unfortunately, I know I'm pretty darn late to the game to derm so I wanted to get a realistic feel for what needs to get done and what things Ive done actually would count for.

Here are my general metrics , 3 rotations so far in 3rd year= Neuro honors, Radonc (short rotation) honors, psych pending. Step one=258, step 2= not taken. Extracurriculars: president and founder of the Radonc interest group from MSI on, fair amount of hours at a free clinic for uninsured and have served on the student leadership board for it for a couple years now. Other variety of hobbies and community leadership/service. Research has been neuroscience in undergrad, addiction basic science research 1 pub 4th author handful of abstracts. In Med school, one 2nd author Radonc paper, an oral presentation at a national meeting, a couple abstracts, some neuroncology basic science work with a poster and hopefully a paper by the end of Med school, and 3 pending 1st author papers and one 1st author case review.

My game plan is pretty much get some good shadowing in here soon, I would like to get some melanoma research going. I have an attending I think could do this with just need to get it going. The biggest barrier as I see it is finding time in 3rd year to establish good rapport and relationships with the derm faculty at the home program in order to get really good letters.

My question is: how close am I to being an ok candidate for the field/is it possible, without taking a research year? Also, how much does my previous Radonc research count for, anything? How much derm specific research would I be needing in general?

Sorry for the novel and thanks in advance for any insight!


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[asmallchild]

Alright everyone here's the scoop: I'm a MSIII who has, up until this point, been pretty set on Radonc. Ive recently been exploring some other options however. I've always like working with cancer patients, and enjoyed the science that goes into oncology, so much of my extracurriculars/research has involved that/Radonc. Mixed in was a fair amount of work at a free clinic that I also really enjoyed and got involved in the leadership of. Anyway, I've been intrigued by derm as I like the idea of the quick paced (in general) workflow, having a lot of diagnostic work along with tx's (vs all tx in Radonc), working with a variety of pts instead of one type, and being able to work/do research in cancer, yet also have the flexibility to do research/work in other areas as well. Unfortunately I haven't yet been able to schedule more than a couple of shadowing experiences to really get a feel for the day to day feel of derm, so there is still a little question as to that, hopefully that is going to be resolved soon.

So that is where I'm coming from a little bit. Unfortunately, I know I'm pretty darn late to the game to derm so I wanted to get a realistic feel for what needs to get done and what things Ive done actually would count for.

Here are my general metrics , 3 rotations so far in 3rd year= Neuro honors, Radonc (short rotation) honors, psych pending. Step one=258, step 2= not taken. Extracurriculars: president and founder of the Radonc interest group from MSI on, fair amount of hours at a free clinic for uninsured and have served on the student leadership board for it for a couple years now. Other variety of hobbies and community leadership/service. Research has been neuroscience in undergrad, addiction basic science research 1 pub 4th author handful of abstracts. In Med school, one 2nd author Radonc paper, an oral presentation at a national meeting, a couple abstracts, some neuroncology basic science work with a poster and hopefully a paper by the end of Med school, and 3 pending 1st author papers and one 1st author case review.

My game plan is pretty much get some good shadowing in here soon, I would like to get some melanoma research going. I have an attending I think could do this with just need to get it going. The biggest barrier as I see it is finding time in 3rd year to establish good rapport and relationships with the derm faculty at the home program in order to get really good letters.

My question is: how close am I to being an ok candidate for the field/is it possible, without taking a research year? Also, how much does my previous Radonc research count for, anything? How much derm specific research would I be needing in general?

Sorry for the novel and thanks in advance for any insight!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

I think you should be fine. I do agree you should shadow as quickly as possible to see if you are interested. On a lighter rotation (perhaps like psych), it would also be a good time to try and get some research done. It's early enough in 3rd year where you can get this done with a research year. Additional research never hurts but derm-specific research is best. It gives you something to talk about with interviewers and more importantly, research mentors can write letters or make calls on your behalf. Best of luck!

 

[bluenevus]

I'm working on my list of programs, and it's intimidating. At the moment, the ERAS fees add up to almost $2,000, including ~80 dermatology residency programs, 4 PYs and ~10 TYs. That's insane. But is that excessive or simply to-be-expected? Based on my stats below, I would appreciate any honest feedback or advice about how many dermatology programs to apply to and how many PYs or TYs to apply to? I guess I pay the same fee ($99) for the first ten programs in a given specialty, so should I really apply to ten PYs and TYs? I can only only be in one place at any given time.

MS4 at a top 15 P/F medical school
Step 1: 250s
Clerkships: All Honors except one High Pass not in Medicine or Surgery
AOA member
Extracurriculars: Very strong
Recommendations should be strong, too
Three dermatology articles and a couple presentations

 

[asmallchild]

I'm working on my list of programs, and it's intimidating. At the moment, the ERAS fees add up to almost $2,000, including ~80 dermatology residency programs, 4 PYs and ~10 TYs. That's insane. But is that excessive or simply to-be-expected? Based on my stats below, I would appreciate any honest feedback or advice about how many dermatology programs to apply to and how many PYs or TYs to apply to? I guess I pay the same fee ($99) for the first ten programs in a given specialty, so should I really apply to ten PYs and TYs? I can only only be in one place at any given time.

MS4 at a top 15 P/F medical school
Step 1: 250s
Clerkships: All Honors except one High Pass not in Medicine or Surgery
AOA member
Extracurriculars: Very strong
Recommendations should be strong, too
Three dermatology articles and a couple presentations

Looks like you are in good shape, those ERAS fees are sadly correct.

With regards to the prelims and TYs, it wouldn't hurt to apply to the full 10 of each since you are "entitled" to them with your $99 fee. I would strongly suggest not interviewing at 20 of these intern year programs as you'll burn out come dermatology interview season.

With regards to the derm programs, the fees are outrageous but unfortunately, it's something we have to put up with until someone changes the system. Even for a strong applicant like yourself, I can't bring myself to recommend cutting down the number of derm programs you apply to. If you know you have no interest in the program or the location, that's fine. But as hard as it is to shell that dough out, you'll have a chance in the future to earn/repay that back. You only get once chance to apply for the first time and that represents your strongest chance. I'd go out swinging for as many programs as possible.

 

[bluenevus]

Looks like you are in good shape, those ERAS fees are sadly correct.

With regards to the prelims and TYs, it wouldn't hurt to apply to the full 10 of each since you are "entitled" to them with your $99 fee. I would strongly suggest not interviewing at 20 of these intern year programs as you'll burn out come dermatology interview season.

With regards to the derm programs, the fees are outrageous but unfortunately, it's something we have to put up with until someone changes the system. Even for a strong applicant like yourself, I can't bring myself to recommend cutting down the number of derm programs you apply to. If you know you have no interest in the program or the location, that's fine. But as hard as it is to shell that dough out, you'll have a chance in the future to earn/repay that back. You only get once chance to apply for the first time and that represents your strongest chance. I'd go out swinging for as many programs as possible.

Thank you for the advice! Okay, I'll apply to 10 each of the PYs and TYs, then decide which interviews to actually go to if and when they trickle in. I guess I'm about to drop two grand, but like you said it's ultimately a drop in a bucket...a bucket full of my own tears.

 

[Dral]

Yah, you haven't started booking flights, hotels, and rental cars yet either.

Sadly, the whip the credit card out and then try to forget all about it until later is the best way I found to deal with it.

You just have to think of it as career development money spent...as in, it's not the time to skimp and save. It's the time to go all in.

 

[bluenevus]

Yah, you haven't started booking flights, hotels, and rental cars yet either.

Sadly, the whip the credit card out and then try to forget all about it until later is the best way I found to deal with it.

You just have to think of it as career development money spent...as in, it's not the time to skimp and save. It's the time to go all in.

Alright, I'll suck it up. Thanks!

 

[Dral]

I just started my job in July and I'm just now gearing up to pay off the crazy interest rate loans I had to take out during 4th year.

It's one of those things: If you cut corners and have a bad outcome, you will never get over the gnawing feeling of what would have happened if you didn't cut corners. It sucks for us, but it's what we all (or a lot of us at least) do.

 

[MilkIsGood]

open up a new credit card that requires certain amount spending in first 1-3 months. get some free miles out of it

 

[sgustudent2012]

x

 

[ddcg]

Your question has been answered many times, please search and read the older threads. As a Carib IMG with an average step 1 for derm, you are facing nothing but an uphill battle. IEA is nothing like AOA. Your best bet would have been transferring to a US allo school with a derm program after MS2. You are going to have a tough time getting your application looked at by a derm program, so you need do as many away rotations at real derm programs as you can (which will be tough considering derm rotations are competitive and there are none at SGU affiliate hospitals). You will need solid derm LoRs when you apply for a derm research fellowship after a medicine prelim (that sticky is chock full of great info). A derm attending is going to have to go to bat for you to get an interview because you'll be taking that spot from a US allo student who is likely better on paper. You really have to ask yourself, what is it about becoming board certified in dermatology that is worth all this effort and uncertainty when you could open a medspa or focus on derm in a more rural area as an internist.

 

[DermBruh55]

School: Top 40
Step 1: 255
Preclinical: Top 25% for everything
Clinical: All HP, no honors
Research: Multiple oral presentations and posters; 1st author derm review, and multiple 2nd author publications in journals and textbooks; some research awards as well

Im about to start 4th year. Heres my info. My grades in clinical are all High Pass with no pass or honors. How could I strengthen my app? Research year?

 

[asmallchild]

School: Top 40
Step 1: 255
Preclinical: Top 25% for everything
Clinical: All HP, no honors
Research: Multiple oral presentations and posters; 1st author derm review, and multiple 2nd author publications in journals and textbooks; some research awards as well

Im about to start 4th year. Heres my info. My grades in clinical are all High Pass with no pass or honors. How could I strengthen my app? Research year?

If you are starting 4th year, there's not much more you can do. Your stats are actually very similar to mine when I applied. I matched the first time without a research year.

As sad as it is, that's considered an average application profile (or maybe even a tad under average) when applying for dermatology.

A research year could definitely strengthen your app but certainly isn't necessary.

If you want to roll the dice, I would make sure you apply broadly. My saving grace (particular since I had no clinical honors) was having a very influential research mentor go to bat for me. Often times, it's who you know, not necessarily what you know.

Good luck!

 

[asmallchild]

Hey everyone, I am currently a student at St. George's University which is a Caribbean medical school. I have a great interest in dermatology, and hopefully wish to apply for a dermatology residency next year. I wanted to obtain some advice on if doing an internal medicine residency first for 3 years would make me more competitive, or would I be able to have any chance at obtaining a dermatology residency? I obtained a 250 on my step 1, am in the schools honor society, and currently have a few research publications. Thank you for the help!

Your question has been answered many times, please search and read the older threads. As a Carib IMG with an average step 1 for derm, you are facing nothing but an uphill battle. IEA is nothing like AOA. Your best bet would have been transferring to a US allo school with a derm program after MS2. You are going to have a tough time getting your application looked at by a derm program, so you need do as many away rotations at real derm programs as you can (which will be tough considering derm rotations are competitive and there are none at SGU affiliate hospitals). You will need solid derm LoRs when you apply for a derm research fellowship after a medicine prelim (that sticky is chock full of great info). A derm attending is going to have to go to bat for you to get an interview because you'll be taking that spot from a US allo student who is likely better on paper. You really have to ask yourself, what is it about becoming board certified in dermatology that is worth all this effort and uncertainty when you could open a medspa or focus on derm in a more rural area as an internist.

I think DDCG said it all. You have a great Step 1 score but it will still be an uphill climb as a Carribean med school student

Doing an internal medicine residency first would not make you more competitive. If your passion is in dermatology, I would chase it from the very start and use IM as a backup.

Getting great letters and even better yet, great faculty members to back you will be your best strategy (some students can develop those relationships over a 4 week rotation. Some students need a research year to build those connections. Some students have pursued an IM residency while building derm connections and parlaying that into a 2nd residency in dermatology. I would look to graduates from SGU who have matched into dermatology and ask them for their recommendations)

I'm coming off a bad day at work so my view is slightly skewed today 🙂 My job is fantastic. But it is still a job. It has its great points. It has its bad points. If you think you can be happy in any other field, I would pursue that since it will likely be an easier pathway than attempting to match into derm. If derm is your true passion, I would chase it down. There's no guarantee and you may have to take the long path. But for those who are persistent enough, eventually they will find their way in.

 

[UMundergrad]

MS4
School: very new state school, no home program
Step 1: 258
Step 2: 268
Class rank: 2nd quartile, not AOA
Pre clinic: GPA 90%
Clinic: Honors in IM, Surgery, Psych. Near honors in FM, Ob/GYN. Pass in peds and neuro.
Extras: Chair of 2 committees at school, one leadership position in service group, did camp discovery
No home derm residency, but chair of the derm dept at my school will enthusiastically support my application.
Research: 8 pubs accepted (including 1 in JAMA derm (2nd author) and 2 research letters in JAAD (1st and 4th author)), 3 pubs submitted as 1st author, 16 posters, 4 book chapters. All derm related.

I applied to 87 derm programs. My question is, am I competitive enough to be selective about programs? I didn't apply to all the programs becuase of the cost but I'm second guessing myself.

 

[asmallchild]

MS4
School: very new state school, no home program
Step 1: 258
Step 2: 268
Class rank: 2nd quartile, not AOA
Pre clinic: GPA 90%
Clinic: Honors in IM, Surgery, Psych. Near honors in FM, Ob/GYN. Pass in peds and neuro.
Extras: Chair of 2 committees at school, one leadership position in service group, did camp discovery
No home derm residency, but chair of the derm dept at my school will enthusiastically support my application.
Research: 8 pubs accepted (including 1 in JAMA derm (2nd author) and 2 research letters in JAAD (1st and 4th author)), 3 pubs submitted as 1st author, 16 posters, 4 book chapters. All derm related.

I applied to 87 derm programs. My question is, am I competitive enough to be selective about programs? I didn't apply to all the programs becuase of the cost but I'm second guessing myself.

I think you should be fine. I would still recommend doing as many interviews as possible and then being selective about not ranking programs if you really can't see yourself there for 3 years. I wouldn't start eliminating programs at the interview phase. With 87 programs, I'm guessing you didn't apply to all programs but I'm sure you must be at 80-90% of all programs already.

 

[username456789]

When I applied I think there were about ~110 programs. I applied to about 100 (left California out and maybe a few others). Overall, although it's a very expensive process, in my mind unless you absolutely know you cannot and would not go somewhere, it makes zero sense to limit yourself otherwise at this stage.

Risking potentially not matching (this year, or ever), losing at least one year's salary as a Derm attending, etc is absolutely not worth trying to save a few hundred bucks.

That said, it sounds like you should hopefully have a good application season. Like asmallchild said, plan to go on every interview you are fortunate enough to receive. The Derm application process can be a very humbling journey. Your application seems very solid, fortunately.

 

[UMundergrad]

I think you should be fine. I would still recommend doing as many interviews as possible and then being selective about not ranking programs if you really can't see yourself there for 3 years. I wouldn't start eliminating programs at the interview phase. With 87 programs, I'm guessing you didn't apply to all programs but I'm sure you must be at 80-90% of all programs already.

There are 113 programs offered this year. I'm going to go on every interview I'm invited to if possible. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

When I applied I think there were about ~110 programs. I applied to about 100 (left California out and maybe a few others). Overall, although it's a very expensive process, in my mind unless you absolutely know you cannot and would not go somewhere, it makes zero sense to limit yourself otherwise at this stage.

Risking potentially not matching (this year, or ever), losing at least one year's salary as a Derm attending, etc is absolutely not worth trying to save a few hundred bucks.

That said, it sounds like you should hopefully have a good application season. Like asmallchild said, plan to go on every interview you are fortunate enough to receive. The Derm application process can be a very humbling journey. Your application seems very solid, fortunately.

I cut out programs where I saw that previous and current residents were exclusively from the area where the program was located. This cut out a lot of programs in the Midwest and California. I also didn't include programs that only take 1 resident per year. I don't think there is a chance programs like that would interview me because all my schooling has been in the Southeast and I have no ties to the area.

 

[notchandlerparsons]

I realize that I'm jumping the gun AND being a pretty big gunner here but...

Current M1 at a mid-tier private allo. No home derm program, the other allo (top tier) in state also does not have a derm program (yet). My home state has no derm program as well
Went to undergrad at my current med school and did molecular mechanisms of SCC research for 3 years, and jumped right back into it M1 year. 2nd author on a poster presentation, 3rd or 4th author on a PhD dissertation that has yet to be published (I think), and currently helping a PhD candidate with his research. (all under Department of Biomedical Sciences)

I realize that my skin cancer-specific research gives me a massive leg up on other potential derms. Derm is something that I'm genuinely extremely interested in given the time I've put into it. Of all of biology, I find cellular and molecular biology to be the most interesting as well, and I have a true passion for treating cancer (insert spiel about how it's cruel and unfair and yet scientifically fascinating). Thus, dermatology is literally where ALL of my interests merge.

Anyways, what can I do to further improve myself to make me a very attractive (and not just physically 😉 ) candidate in a few short years? I pretty much don't care for any other field at the moment, nor do I care for any ECs that I constantly get bombarded with in my email inbox, aside from Habitat from Humanity and anything food-related (former professional chef).

One of my classmate's father is a dermatologist and he already knows me from my cooking career (it's fate/destiny, seriously). I definitely would like to get that connection going for me. What else can I do? Start contacting and shadowing/rubbing elbows with dermatologists affiliated with the two medical schools in my state (happen to be in my city) even though there is no proper department/program?


Thanks all, hope I'm not being that annoying gunner M1 (I know I am)

 

[asmallchild]

I realize that I'm jumping the gun AND being a pretty big gunner here but...

Current M1 at a mid-tier private allo. No home derm program, the other allo (top tier) in state also does not have a derm program (yet). My home state has no derm program as well
Went to undergrad at my current med school and did molecular mechanisms of SCC research for 3 years, and jumped right back into it M1 year. 2nd author on a poster presentation, 3rd or 4th author on a PhD dissertation that has yet to be published (I think), and currently helping a PhD candidate with his research. (all under Department of Biomedical Sciences)

I realize that my skin cancer-specific research gives me a massive leg up on other potential derms. Derm is something that I'm genuinely extremely interested in given the time I've put into it. Of all of biology, I find cellular and molecular biology to be the most interesting as well, and I have a true passion for treating cancer (insert spiel about how it's cruel and unfair and yet scientifically fascinating). Thus, dermatology is literally where ALL of my interests merge.

Anyways, what can I do to further improve myself to make me a very attractive (and not just physically 😉 ) candidate in a few short years? I pretty much don't care for any other field at the moment, nor do I care for any ECs that I constantly get bombarded with in my email inbox, aside from Habitat from Humanity and anything food-related (former professional chef).

One of my classmate's father is a dermatologist and he already knows me from my cooking career (it's fate/destiny, seriously). I definitely would like to get that connection going for me. What else can I do? Start contacting and shadowing/rubbing elbows with dermatologists affiliated with the two medical schools in my state (happen to be in my city) even though there is no proper department/program?


Thanks all, hope I'm not being that annoying gunner M1 (I know I am)

You are pretty early into M1. I would make sure you can handle the workload and handle it well before biting off more than you can chew. You have an extensive research background and while that will help, it won't mean much if you don't have the Step scores and grades to go with it. If you are certain you can handle the M1 workload, I would continue with the research you are currently doing.

I think shadowing your classmate's father isn't a bad idea but if he isn't in academics, it's not going to be as big of a connection as you think. Once you've had some clinical exposure in private practice, it might not be a bad idea to reach out to neighboring programs to see if there are any shadowing opportunities or research opportunities you can get involved with.

Again, that is a lot (at least for me) to juggle as an MS1. If your grades aren't stellar, there is plenty of time to do this. I would make sure you can handle your primary job: to be the best medical student you can be before proceeding further.

 

[notchandlerparsons]

You are pretty early into M1. I would make sure you can handle the workload and handle it well before biting off more than you can chew. You have an extensive research background and while that will help, it won't mean much if you don't have the Step scores and grades to go with it. If you are certain you can handle the M1 workload, I would continue with the research you are currently doing.

I think shadowing your classmate's father isn't a bad idea but if he isn't in academics, it's not going to be as big of a connection as you think. Once you've had some clinical exposure in private practice, it might not be a bad idea to reach out to neighboring programs to see if there are any shadowing opportunities or research opportunities you can get involved with.

Again, that is a lot (at least for me) to juggle as an MS1. If your grades aren't stellar, there is plenty of time to do this. I would make sure you can handle your primary job: to be the best medical student you can be before proceeding further.

Thank you for your advice.

Classmate's father is private practice. My university has a practicing dermatologist in the SoM directory, so I'll definitely attempt to rub elbows with him later (as early as this summer?). I don't think if he's academic because my PI is one who lectures on skin/skin cancer/cancer in general to med students and pretty much gets introduced/talked about as such.

My classes are pass fail and I think top 10% honor. Obviously knowing my aspirations I want to excel at everything and rock the Step 1 (thank god I'm a ridiculously good multiple choice test taker). Are there certain subjects/fields that I should try to honor in moreso than others? Obviously Molecular/Cell Biology is one.

 

[username456789]

Are there certain subjects/fields that I should try to honor in moreso than others? Obviously Molecular/Cell Biology is one.

All of them.

 

[dermderm7]

Research year between MS3 and MS4
School: Top 5 w/ very good home derm program
Step 1: 251
Step 2: 247
Class rank: No rank or AOA
Pre clinic: P all (P/F)
Clinical: All honors, great clerkship reviews
Extras: Head of community health student group (won University-wide award for this), developed two courses, free clinic volunteer
Research: Non-derm: 2 posters, 1 national conference presentation, year of basic science experience (no publications)
Derm: 1 case report; currently taking year of research - have already in the works 2 first author papers and book chapter (hope to get a few other things published as well)

3 Qs: I am concerned that my Step 2 score was a few points lower than Step 1 (had a nightmare of a testing experience), will this be an issue? How many publications should I shoot for this year? What are my chances of matching at a top tier program?

Would love as many opinions as possible!

 

[dermie1985]

Research year between MS3 and MS4
School: Top 5 w/ very good home derm program
Step 1: 251
Step 2: 247
Class rank: No rank or AOA
Pre clinic: P all (P/F)
Clinical: All honors, great clerkship reviews
Extras: Head of community health student group (won University-wide award for this), developed two courses, free clinic volunteer
Research: Non-derm: 2 posters, 1 national conference presentation, year of basic science experience (no publications)
Derm: 1 case report; currently taking year of research - have already in the works 2 first author papers and book chapter (hope to get a few other things published as well)

3 Qs: I am concerned that my Step 2 score was a few points lower than Step 1 (had a nightmare of a testing experience), will this be an issue? How many publications should I shoot for this year? What are my chances of matching at a top tier program?

Would love as many opinions as possible!

I would not worry about your Step 2 at all. Very few programs actually care about Step 2 and the fact that your score was 4 points lower is of no consequence, especially when you're in the 240-270 range. Literally the difference between those scores is a matter of a few questions/percentiles that aren't of much consequence. You're either at Stanford or Harvard, as those are the only Top 5 schools without AOA or ranking. Stanford tends to take it own applicants (especially those with research years), Harvard does not have as much preference for its internal applicants. I think you'll be well-prepared to garner interviews at a lot of places. Your best bet for a "top" program will probably be your home institution, but you'll certainly be competitive elsewhere. I wouldn't get overly confident even though you have good grades and come from a good medical school. Plenty of students from "top" schools with great grades don't end up in top derm programs, so I'd still recommend applying broadly (i.e. 60-100 programs). I'm sure you'll match somewhere.

Also, having interviewed at both "top", "middle", and "lower" tier programs, I would say picking a program based on location and resident happiness should definitely trump prestige. I found many a resident at top programs who didn't appear particularly happy with their decision, and conversely many residents at lower tier programs who were very happy, much more relaxed, and sometimes (at least by appearance) had received better clinical training.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi everyone, hope you're all doing well. I would appreciate your advice:
MS3
School: Top 25 w/ home derm program
Step 1: 255
Step 2: not taken yet
Preclinical: P/F (all passed)
Clinical: 2 As, 1 A-, anticipating a B+ in OBGYN (not sure how this compares to H/HP)
Extras: some scattered volunteering, involvement in DIG
Research: None besides a non-derm poster presentation in undergrad. Have spoken with some derm faculty and have tentatively gotten on board with a few projects. Most anxious about this.

I'm going to do my best to meet more derm faculty and try to get some research under my belt - I'm not sure if the ones I already met even remember me. It's hard to find time during rotations though. Do people typically do the bulk of their research M4 year?

Does anyone have further advice? Thanks in advance and good luck to everyone applying this cycle!

You should be in good shape. The summer after 1st year is a good time for research. If you are extremely productive, you can concurrently do research as an MS2. Some people will take time off after MS3. If you are motivated enough, you can work on small projects during "easier" rotations in MS3. Some students will take a research rotation as an MS4.

This is not the case for everyone but I'm of the opinion that worthwhile research usually requires taking time off or really squeezing in some extra work on the side during MS1 / 2 / 3.

Your stats are good enough to apply without a research year. But I would work on getting to know your home program better and trying to get involved this year so that you can have as many connections and publications as possible come application time. I don't think it would be a good idea to wait until you are an MS4.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Thanks very much @asmallchild . I'll take your advice to heart. Thanks for being so helpful to everyone who seeks help here.

 

[DoctoWho]

MS3
School: Middle tier
Step 1: 250
Step 2: not taken yet
Preclinical: All Honors and High pass
Clinical: HP on one, Honors in another so far
Extras: Pretty strong extracurricular. President/VP of several organizations on campus. Plenty of volunteering. Lots of community outreach projects
Research: Did 2 years during undergrad but nothing published a. No publications. Did some NIH funded research between years 1 and 2 and got a poster presentation but once again no publication out of it. Currently trying to get some research in the derm department but seems nobody has things going on they are willing to let people on board on. Bad thing is there seems to be a crazy amount of people in my class going into derm with tons of 260+ and involvement in the department ready to jump on anything. Not sure if I should take a year off and just do research to offset all of this.

 

[asmallchild]

MS3
School: Middle tier
Step 1: 250
Step 2: not taken yet
Preclinical: All Honors and High pass
Clinical: HP on one, Honors in another so far
Extras: Pretty strong extracurricular. President/VP of several organizations on campus. Plenty of volunteering. Lots of community outreach projects
Research: Did 2 years during undergrad but nothing published a. No publications. Did some NIH funded research between years 1 and 2 and got a poster presentation but once again no publication out of it. Currently trying to get some research in the derm department but seems nobody has things going on they are willing to let people on board on. Bad thing is there seems to be a crazy amount of people in my class going into derm with tons of 260+ and involvement in the department ready to jump on anything. Not sure if I should take a year off and just do research to offset all of this.

I think you are in decent shape, I would continue to work on research and if no one in your home department is letting medical students participate (that's odd), I would look for neighboring programs (if available) where you can tag onto a project.

The decision to pursue a research year is personal. I think your stats are good enough to chance it without a research year. That being said, if you are interested in research, it never hurts.

I wouldn't let the fact that others in your year are applying for derm be the determining factor for a research year. Lots can happen between now and application season. (The best student on paper in my year ended up changing her mind and ranking internal medicine programs AFTER running the gamut of interviews in dermatology). You'll drive yourself nuts if you let others dictate what path you want to pursue.

 

[dermderm7]

@dermie1985 Apologies for the late reply: thanks so much for your encouragement and advice.

I certainly would take location/satisfaction over prestige. Could you mention any of these "lower" tier programs where residents seemed happier and with better clinical training? I'm thinking location-wise I may want to be in D.C. Do the programs there fit into that category by any chance?

 

[DermApplicant3]

Hello everyone, hope you all are doing well. I would like to ask your opinion on my competitiveness for applying into dermatology.

MS4
School: Mid-tier
Step 1: ~250
Step 2: Not taken yet.
Preclinical: Honored more than Passed
Clinical: Honored and High Passed all; Honors > High Pass
Extras: in an American Academy of Dermatology mentorship program from underrepresented-in-medicine students; quite active in my school's minority student organization; volunteered on a few weekends at a county dermatology clinic with a probono dermatologist and did local (inner city) and international educational outreach; also did wound care work in an African country for 3 summers total.
Research: 11 publications / presentations / abstracts etc. pertaining to basic science oncology, wound care, dermatology, and rheumatology

Thanks for helping me out guys!

 

[asmallchild]

Hello everyone, hope you all are doing well. I would like to ask your opinion on my competitiveness for applying into dermatology.

MS4
School: Mid-tier
Step 1: ~250
Step 2: Not taken yet.
Preclinical: Honored more than Passed
Clinical: Honored and High Passed all; Honors > High Pass
Extras: in an American Academy of Dermatology mentorship program from underrepresented-in-medicine students; quite active in my school's minority student organization; volunteered on a few weekends at a county dermatology clinic with a probono dermatologist and did local (inner city) and international educational outreach; also did wound care work in an African country for 3 summers total.
Research: 11 publications / presentations / abstracts etc. pertaining to basic science oncology, wound care, dermatology, and rheumatology

Thanks for helping me out guys!

I don't think there is much more you can do. Apply broadly, enjoy the interview season, and good luck!

 

[DermApplicant3]

I don't think there is much more you can do. Apply broadly, enjoy the interview season, and good luck!

Thank you! I applied to 100+ programs, hoping for the best. It's a bit of a nerve-wrecking process, where some days I feel alright and others are filled with much self-doubt... Trying to stay positive though.

Good luck to everyone else these next few months!

 

[DermApplicant3]

Please share your reviews once you get any result.

I would gladly share! There is also a helpful Google document where other applicants share their reviews on programs, visiting rotations, interviews, etc. The navigation panel is at the bottom of the document.
Here is the link:

Hope this helps! Best of luck.

 

[snowys435]

So somewhat long story please bear with me. I'm a third year peds and ob down. Very beginning of med school I was interested in family medicine but then I thought I may not be find it very stimulating. Then for about a year and a half I was super super interested in ophtho but then I got to third year and I realized I absolutely do not enjoy surgery or the OR very much. Ophtho or might be different but I also have visual issues that possibly preclude me from doing it. Also on peds and ob I realized that I am a very very outpatient oriented person. being in the hospital makes me very depressed and miserable and when I wake up to round I think I'll want to kill myself if I do this forever. However, I loved peds out patient and ob outpatient but not enough to do either of them. Then I was thinking I could maybe do family med however I spoke to the dean at my scchool and she listened to my thought process and what I've liked/ not liked about third year and she think dermatology would be a really good fit for me. I've never really seriously actually considered derm before, maybe as a passing thought but I thought i'd give it a chance and I shadowed. I actually really did like it. It's totally outpatient, even the procedures are out patient but its way cooler and intellectually stimulating than family med.

However, I am super super intimidated and not sure I could do derm. I don't think I have what it takes and I don't know where to begin. My grades third year are kinda floundering. I got all A's and H's in preclinical and 254 on step 1. However third year I got an A- on peds and Ob and my shelf scores have been 70's to 80s. I'm struggling very much with third year and constantly exhausted. I have a bunch of research prior to med school and one book review in med school ( all basic science cardiology research). Nothing in med school. Idk how to really go about pumping out case reports this year seeing as how I can't even pull the grades right now. I'm feeling really dejected. I don't even know if its possible for me do derm in any realm of possibility. Furthermore, I have geographic constraints due to an SO who really can be satisfied with their job in major cities like la,sf, chicago, ny. So, all in all lost, confused, would love your thoughts. Part of me wants to pursue derm but another part is like well maybe I should just settle with family med.

 

[asmallchild]

So somewhat long story please bear with me. I'm a third year peds and ob down. Very beginning of med school I was interested in family medicine but then I thought I may not be find it very stimulating. Then for about a year and a half I was super super interested in ophtho but then I got to third year and I realized I absolutely do not enjoy surgery or the OR very much. Ophtho or might be different but I also have visual issues that possibly preclude me from doing it. Also on peds and ob I realized that I am a very very outpatient oriented person. being in the hospital makes me very depressed and miserable and when I wake up to round I think I'll want to kill myself if I do this forever. However, I loved peds out patient and ob outpatient but not enough to do either of them. Then I was thinking I could maybe do family med however I spoke to the dean at my scchool and she listened to my thought process and what I've liked/ not liked about third year and she think dermatology would be a really good fit for me. I've never really seriously actually considered derm before, maybe as a passing thought but I thought i'd give it a chance and I shadowed. I actually really did like it. It's totally outpatient, even the procedures are out patient but its way cooler and intellectually stimulating than family med.

However, I am super super intimidated and not sure I could do derm. I don't think I have what it takes and I don't know where to begin. My grades third year are kinda floundering. I got all A's and H's in preclinical and 254 on step 1. However third year I got an A- on peds and Ob and my shelf scores have been 70's to 80s. I'm struggling very much with third year and constantly exhausted. I have a bunch of research prior to med school and one book review in med school ( all basic science cardiology research). Nothing in med school. Idk how to really go about pumping out case reports this year seeing as how I can't even pull the grades right now. I'm feeling really dejected. I don't even know if its possible for me do derm in any realm of possibility. Furthermore, I have geographic constraints due to an SO who really can be satisfied with their job in major cities like la,sf, chicago, ny. So, all in all lost, confused, would love your thoughts. Part of me wants to pursue derm but another part is like well maybe I should just settle with family med.

I think you have to figure out what you want and how badly you want it.

It sounds like you want to do derm. Your Step 1 score is good. You'll need to do better clinically. You'll need to get some research under your belt. It isn't easy juggling clinical rotations with research, perhaps you could look into taking a year off for research? Geographic constraints don't help but as part of taking a year off for research, you may consider doing so in one of those major cities so that you will have a better chance of matching the area. You'll need to juggle the risk of not matching or the costs of taking a year off. If you want it badly enough, you'll find a way to make it work.

Conversely, maybe derm is just a passing interest? I don't think you would have any difficulty matching into FM and in a location of your choice. Perhaps that would be the safer way to go if grinding through the remainder of med scohol, taking a year off, or potentially going unmatched do not sound like palatable options.

Perhaps you can do both? Apply for derm as your first choice and family medicine as your second choice.

 

[Fpg1245]

Is There even a chance for a Pgy2 Rad-Onc Resident who would like to make the switch to derm? Strong boards and good Med school grades pretty much the only thing I have going for me. Research predominantly onc based no derm unfortunately. The push/pull factors:

pulling towards derm: better mix of patients ( I miss the non-onc side of patient care) , Performing procedures (Mohs, curettage, electro dissection etc) which rad onc used to do with interstitial brachy but it's slowly becoming less relevant in practice, not everyone has a life threatening disease, and I can see onc patients granted it won't be breast or cervical cancer but still. I am even hearing that some Derm practices are adopting more electronic brachytherapy for their patients. Finally, you actually have to watch and manage your patients and the complications they experience. Surprisingly, this really isn't the case in rad-onc. Management decisions are confined to largely to give or not to give radiation every other complication is handed over to med-onc.

pushing away from rad-onc - a shrinking number of RT indications, research is sparse and mostly focused on delivery and how to give less, and just a general feeling that the field has an increasingly marginalized impact on a cancer prognosis. Moreover, it is being viewed by the other Oncologic specialties as just a wasted resource that they can do without. It's become lost in its own academic discussion for the sake of itself. Hearing a debate over giving someone 4gy in 5fx versus 5gy in 3 fractions really takes the cake. It would be funny if it wasn't so downright trivial to patient care. I wished I had realized earlier I had attached myself to such a dead end in the medical field.

I understand it's probably a long shot but what can I do? What are my chances? How would I go about improving them if that's possible?

 

[asmallchild]

Is There even a chance for a Pgy2 Rad-Onc Resident who would like to make the switch to derm? Strong boards and good Med school grades pretty much the only thing I have going for me. Research predominantly onc based no derm unfortunately. The push/pull factors:

pulling towards derm: better mix of patients ( I miss the non-onc side of patient care) , Performing procedures (Mohs, curettage, electro dissection etc) which rad onc used to do with interstitial brachy but it's slowly becoming less relevant in practice, not everyone has a life threatening disease, and I can see onc patients granted it won't be breast or cervical cancer but still. I am even hearing that some Derm practices are adopting more electronic brachytherapy for their patients. Finally, you actually have to watch and manage your patients and the complications they experience. Surprisingly, this really isn't the case in rad-onc. Management decisions are confined to largely to give or not to give radiation every other complication is handed over to med-onc.

pushing away from rad-onc - a shrinking number of RT indications, research is sparse and mostly focused on delivery and how to give less, and just a general feeling that the field has an increasingly marginalized impact on a cancer prognosis. Moreover, it is being viewed by the other Oncologic specialties as just a wasted resource that they can do without. It's become lost in its own academic discussion for the sake of itself. Hearing a debate over giving someone 4gy in 5fx versus 5gy in 3 fractions really takes the cake. It would be funny if it wasn't so downright trivial to patient care. I wished I had realized earlier I had attached myself to such a dead end in the medical field.

I understand it's probably a long shot but what can I do? What are my chances? How would I go about improving them if that's possible?

There is certainly a chance. I find it is always more complicated when you are already a resident, you will need to discuss this with your PD if you are serious about making the change (I would not have this conversation though until you are absolutely certain). You'll likely need to have a conversation with your GME office as well to discuss funding issues.

You can try applying directly (if there is a home department within the same system as your current residency, it would be a good place to start. I would check with the PD to see how competitive you would be) and taking your chances.

Most consider taking a year off to do some rotations, get some exposure and some LORs. It is a good opportunity to get some research in as well.

I think inertia is probably the biggest deterrent. Even after doing all that (including taking the year off), there is no guarantee of matching so many residents end up just staying with their original field. It is still early in your PGY2 year, are you certain rad-onc isn't right for you?