Washington residency vs. California residency

[Starsinthesky]

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Hello, everyone! This is my first post, and like many first posts, there is a pressing and important question that has led me to find and register with this forum. If someone out there could help me, that would be greatly appreciated!

I'm here of course, because I am reapplying after an unsuccessful first attempt and now I have the option of changing residency.

Last time I had one interview at the U of Washington out of 23 places I applied (I was a WA resident). I’m not sure if they interviewed me because they wanted to, or because under state legislation they had to because of my GPA and mcat scores. During my feedback interview, they pointed out three major problems:
1) That I submitted late
2) My personal statement did not express explicitly enough my desire to go to med school.
3) My secondaries and personal statement suggested a poor understanding of the health care field and the medical profession.

I’m unsure if these issues will hold me back if I reapply to them, since at least one person on the panel will have my past application.

UPDATE:
I graduated this May with a BA in Chemistry from a small prestigious liberal arts college on the West Coast. My GPA went down from a 3.53 to a 3.49. I took my MCAT in January of 2007 and got a 33Q. This past year I also published a paper in the Journal of Physical Chemistry, and have a second paper in review. I have re-written my personal statement, and during the summer I will have significant clinical work experience with children.

The question is however whether I should apply as a CA resident or a WA resident since I have confirmed with all the UCs that I can apply as a CA resident. As a CA resident I would have a much better shot at all UCs and esp. UCD and UCI. But would obviously not be considered for WA anymore.

Do you think I should pursue WA despite my poor record with them? Or do you think it will work to my advantage that I’m trying again? With UCD and UCI I will have a clean slate and they wont have access to my past substandard essays. Any help would be great!

 

[DrMidlife]

UW has substantially better odds for you than any UC. As a reapplicant, UW will still interview you if you're 3.5/27. And that 3.5 is the weighted GPA that doesn't include your senior year, so you're still >3.5.

Your chances of getting an interview at a UC are 10-14% apiece (vs 66% at UW). That's simple division of the number of instate interviews by the number of instate applicants, nothing fancy. More schools to choose from is no advantage if they're choosier with you.

THAT SAID, what have you done to address UW's concerns with you? Your ability to express a mature understanding of health care issues isn't any less important at a UC. You're not going to make it past anybody's interview if you don't seem like a mature candidate. Your essays got you an interview, so it's not really about the essays. How do you hold up in front of professionals when you're being asked about ethics or health care policy?

Are you getting more clinical exposure? Shadowing docs and not just standing there but asking questions? Are you reading the NYT Health section every day? Are you reading books about health care policy? How about UW's bioethics website? Your competition is doing these things. The really rude question your interviewers want to ask people is this: what business do you have applying to med school if you don't know what you're getting into? Or if you can't convince us that you want to be a doctor and you know what that entails?

I strongly suggest that you spend the time to become an educated candidate, and fret less about whether a UW interviewer is going to have a copy of your last app or not. No interviewer at UW, or at a UC, is going to let you off the hook. More to the point, if you show improvement in your comprehension of the field, and in your commitment and desire to practice medicine, then that gives UW a reason to let you in.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Blade28]

Solid advice above.

Realize that the mean GPA for CA applicants and matriculants is quite a bit higher than where you are - so it'll be a tough uphill battle even if you were a CA resident.

Just curious how you're sure you can quickly change to CA residency all of a sudden?

 

[Starsinthesky]

whoops see reply to Dr Midlife

 

[Starsinthesky]

Thank you for your honest advice. A few questions though. Where did you find out that the GPA doesn't include the senior year? I've graduated already (May 2008) so when I'm applying for Fall 2009 wouldn't they include my senior year GPA as well? When I said my GPA dropped from a 3.53 to a 3.49, I meant my total cumulative GPA, so I'm not sure I would qualify for the automatic interview invite.

I'm not sure if your questions were rhetorical, but for anyone else reading this post, details may be helpful.

- I am currently at a very intensive summer program with children that have life threatening illnesses. Most of my direct interaction is on a mentor level but there will be heavy contact with clinical settings
- Next year I plan on doing heavy shadowing and or volunteering
- I took a public health class this past semester (post interview) and gained a lot of insight from that
- I did prep through reading/studying the WHOLE UW ethics website but apparently that was insufficient.

Thanks again for the advice, even if its not particularly what I wanted to hear. I'd rather be in CA, but I guess so would a lot of people 🙁

 

[Starsinthesky]

I called every UC and gave them my profile/residency information and asked if I could apply as a resident. Every school said yes. FYI every school has different policy on changing residency.

And also, my GPA is low in general isn't it? It's low for UW and for UCs... does it "mean more" to CA schools simply because there are more people applying there?

thanks for the advice, keep it coming!

 

[DrMidlife]

The weighted-GPA-not-including-your-senior-year thing is on http://uwmedicine.washington.edu/Education/MDProgram/Admissions/FAQ.htm, under "What is a weighted GPA?" I went to about a dozen UW admissions info sessions over the last 3 years and it's always there on the slides. I don't believe Dr. Teitz has pushed to change this.

 

[Blade28]

I called every UC and gave them my profile/residency information and asked if I could apply as a resident. Every school said yes. FYI every school has different policy on changing residency.

I'm still curious - how would you be able to change state residency so quickly? Are your parents going to establish residence in CA? Are you additionally planning on moving from WA to CA, filing taxes, buying a house, etc.?

It's low for UW and for UCs... does it "mean more" to CA schools simply because there are more people applying there?

I'm completely confused by your question here. 😕

 

[Starsinthesky]

I'm financially independent and my parents did not file me as a dependent so wherever I am this year will pretty much decide my residency (long story short)

you mentioned that my GPA is low for CA schools, but my understanding that it is low for UW also? so I was curious why my GPA would fare better at UW?

thanks 🙂

 

[DrMidlife]

you mentioned that my GPA is low for CA schools, but my understanding that it is low for UW also? so I was curious why my GPA would fare better at UW?

It's not that "your GPA" would fare better at UW, it's that the statistics for instate applicants are substantially favorable in Washington, as compared to the UC system. Forget GPA and look at numbers of applicants vs. seats. I suggest you find an MSAR and see for yourself. (The '09-'10 version has ranges of accepted GPAs and MCAT scores which are a big improvement in system transparency over previous years' MSARs.)

Think back to basic probability. If you have a 10% chance of getting an interview at UCI, and a 10% chance of getting an interview at Davis, does that mean that you have a 20% chance of getting an interview at a UC? No it doesn't. They are 2 independent events, thus are not additive. It's also not random probability: your interview chances are correlated with your app assets.

So, quiz time. If you apply to all 5 UCs, with a 10-14% chance of an interview at each, will you ever beat UW's 66% chance of an interview? More to the point, will a UC give you an auto-interview as UW does?

Best of luck to you.

 

[Blade28]

Outstanding post above. 👍

 

[ThatQuestionGuy]

UW offers automatic interviews to in-state candidates with a weighted GPA of over 3.5 and MCAT of over 30.

http://depts.washington.edu/mdadmit/interview/process.htm

 

[DrMidlife]

UW offers automatic interviews to in-state candidates with a weighted GPA of over 3.5 and MCAT of over 30.

http://depts.washington.edu/mdadmit/interview/process.htm

Cite the source for "over 30" please. It's been "over 27" for years, and I haven't seen anything change in Dr. Teitz's presentations. Neither 27, nor 30, nor 3.5 is on the admissions or interview websites - you can only get that info from admissions info sessions.

 

[gman33]

Stay with the Washington residency.

You have a pretty slim chance of even getting an interview at a Cali school. In fact, if you are going to reapply this cycle, I wouldn't even bother applying to the Cali schools. You are much better off finding suitable out of state private schools. Post your list of schools if you want some more feedback.

What is your BCPM gpa?

A common problem is people don't properly evaluate how competitve an applicant they are. You may apply to 20-30 schools, but you may have no effective shot at many of them. You have to realize that with your gpa, you are a below average applicant. Does this mean you can't get in? NO. But it does mean you have to be smart about how and where you apply.

One of the first things UW told you was that you applied too late.
Why haven't you submitted your app yet????

 

[somemom]

My D is a CA resident who will likely have stats similar to the OP (MCAT based on practice scores) I have moved to WA and she would prefer the PNW to CA, but many people have told us she should stick with the multiple options at the UCs.

Do I understand ya'll correctly- much better interview possiblities at UW? ow does one see one of these presentations you've mentioned?

Do the CA privates favour instate applicants?

DD is also at the point where she can choose to maintain CA or switch to WA and trying to determine that choice most wisely.

Thanks

 

[DrMidlife]

...many people have told us she should stick with the multiple options at the UCs.

If she's got the numbers to get into a UC, and she wants to stay in CA, then those folks have a point. If she's an average applicant, then these folks haven't done their homework.

Do I understand ya'll correctly- much better interview possiblities at UW?

MUCH better than the UCs. Again, with stellar numbers, all chances improve everywhere.

How does one see one of these presentations you've mentioned?

Contact UWSOM admissions.

Do the CA privates favour instate applicants?

No. There's no state funding at LL, USC or Stanford. Get ahold of an MSAR to see stats on applicants, interviewees & matriculants. (www.aamc.org)

Best of luck to you.

 

[RisingSun]

Good luck on which ever course you take. I always told myself during the application season a few years ago that SOMEBODY has to get into the med schools that I was applying to, why not me?

I just want to add that UW is a great school and that you wouldn't be settling in any way by choosing to put your in-state hopes here rather than California. You'll get an interview here - why not at least bank on that rather than stressing over whether or not the CA schools will interview you?

Also, apply broadly and consider DO schools as well. There are some good ones out there. 👍

 

[amakhosidlo]

If you do want to go for the Cali schools as in-state, think long and hard before making the decision to claim residency there. Having pretty extensive experience with the whole Wa higher-ed residency system I can tell you they've made it nearly impossible gain residency coming from another state, for educational purposes anyway...

It took me 2 1/2 years, a parent semi-retiring in the state and 3 applications before I got instate residency after coming up from Cali, even though my family and I are originally from Wa. Since you're independent, it may be easier for you but you'd still be under a moratorium regarding college classes for at least 6 months (To prove you're not moving for educational purposes). In addition, the paper trail necessary to prove residency is a couple miles long (utility bills, DL, vehicle reg, etc.). Lastly, schools do consider your residency history when deciding whether you're to be treated as OOS or not. How do you think hopping from state to state just to boost your odds will look?

I guess I'm backing everyone else up on this. Stay in Washington, if for no other reason than the fact that blackberry season will soon be upon us. 😀

 

[dragonfly99]

I'm not sure I have anything super valuable to add.
I can say that from your stats and volunteer experiences you look to be a competitive medical school candidate. Be aware that it is much harder to get in to school on the West and East coasts vs. somewhere else like Midwest, South, etc. It is a good idea to go to one of the state schools you have mentioned, if possible. I didn't realize it was that brutal trying to get in to a Calif. med school,but I've heard stories. It sounds like you might be better served to go to U of Washington. You can always go to Cali for residency later if you like...

It sounds like you might semipermanently lose your Wash. state residency if you claim Cali residency. Perhaps it would be better to give it one more shot in Washington this year, and THEN if still not accepted you could try for California (assuming you're going to physically stay in California).

I wouldn't obsess too much about the Washington interviewers (what they said and whether they will remember reading your application). Some interviewers are just asses. I'm not saying you do or do not have a good understanding of health care ,but I do know that U of Wash. and some other state schools are kind of fixated on public health and primary care (very important areas, to be sure), and some of their interviewers tend to assume people with research backgrounds (i.e. chem majors with p chem publications) are drones with no people skills who don't understand health care policy. I had a similar experience to yours interviewing at U of Missouri-Columbia years ago. Some interviewers were great but another one just hammered me the entire time about why I had a job in a research lab, and she definitely had an agenda. These schools have a mission of delivering primary care and they are trying to weed out all those who they don't think will enter primary care. You need to think how to "spin" your application so they don't assume you are a chemistry nerd.

Might I suggest you also apply out of state to some private schools that would likely look favorably on your application. Research-oriented schools are likely to look favorably upon your chem. degree and publications. Baylor, U of Chicago, Emory, etc. St. Louis University takes a lot of out of state students, including many Californians. All these places will cost more money, but you may like to consider them if you don't want to wait another year to go to school.