Feb 21, 2021
3
2
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
WashU radiology residency is extremely malignant. The residents are overworked and bullied daily. The calls are so bad residents literally faint and need medical attention. Instead of addressing this concern, the PD blames the residents for being weak. Multiple attendings call the residents "worthless, useless, pieces of sh!ts, [email protected]" It is terrible. We are scared to speak up because the PD and her goons crush everybody who does. We can only voice the truth on here. Nobody cares about our education. We are constantly kept from going to lecture to do scudwork. We don't even get time to study for the radiology board exam. All the other programs give their residents time off to study but not here. If you fail then you get blamed just like everything else wrong here gets thrown onto the residents. I know there will be a lot of victim blaming for this post but the applicants should know what kind of program this really is.
 

Dave1980

10+ Year Member
Jan 25, 2007
674
1,346
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I interviewed there for residency and I remember all the residents seem tired/unhappy. We had a pre-interview dinner at 6 right across the street from the hospital and like half of the residents showed up late because they were working late.
 
About the Ads

GadRads

7+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2012
593
331
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
Getting called a ****** is pretty bad. But not time off for boards is whining.

Your program is doing you a disservice if you do not get time off to study for boards. Some residents have kids, and having some time off is extremely helpful. The core exam is more difficult than USMLE Step 1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users

recycledpaper

10+ Year Member
Jul 20, 2010
500
314
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
Your program is doing you a disservice if you do not get time off to study for boards. Some residents have kids, and having some time off is extremely helpful. The core exam is more difficult than USMLE Step 1.

Yeah yeah yeah.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: 1 users

SeisK

2+ Year Member
Oct 6, 2018
114
154
Yeah yeah yeah.

It’s not a difficult request to execute in terms of scheduling, really. If anyone is saying no to this request it more than likely is a matter of administrative pride than real logistical issues. And seems more reflective of the personality of the leadership of such a program, and how they view their residents, than anything else. You have to ask yourself: would you be okay with attending such a program?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Cognovi

Knowledge worker
5+ Year Member
Feb 10, 2016
622
665
bit.ly
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
care to elaborate why your program cannot provide protected study time? Mine can and frankly it should be standard
The ACGME prohibits it. Programs either have to lie to ACGME that they schedule clinical rotations up until Core, or residents have to lie to their program that they're showing up to these rotations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

GadRads

7+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2012
593
331
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
The ACGME prohibits it. Programs either have to lie to ACGME that they schedule clinical rotations up until Core, or residents have to lie to their program that they're showing up to these rotations.

As long as the core exam continues to place value on unnecessary memorization of minutiae and trivia, most programs will find ways to give their residents time off to study.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sep 11, 2020
22
33
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
Don't most program schedule "easy" rotations and dismiss residents after noon conference (which is focused on board prep) so they can study?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Kaputt

I am having a good time!
7+ Year Member
Jun 7, 2011
936
825
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
WashU radiology residency is extremely malignant. The residents are overworked and bullied daily. The calls are so bad residents literally faint and need medical attention. Instead of addressing this concern, the PD blames the residents for being weak. Multiple attendings call the residents "worthless, useless, pieces of sh!ts, [email protected]" It is terrible. We are scared to speak up because the PD and her goons crush everybody who does. We can only voice the truth on here. Nobody cares about our education. We are constantly kept from going to lecture to do scudwork. We don't even get time to study for the radiology board exam. All the other programs give their residents time off to study but not here. If you fail then you get blamed just like everything else wrong here gets thrown onto the residents. I know there will be a lot of victim blaming for this post but the applicants should know what kind of program this really is.

So let's get some more transparency here. Are you a current MIR resident? Recent graduate?
 
Last edited:
About the Ads

Kaputt

I am having a good time!
7+ Year Member
Jun 7, 2011
936
825
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
As long as the core exam continues to place value on unnecessary memorization of minutiae and trivia, most programs will find ways to give their residents time off to study.

half the test is written by MIR faculty or friends of MIR faculty. they view their board review as equivalent to free time to study. maybe it's not. MIR is pretty old school in that regard and follows the ACGME directive of "no time off to study" pretty strictly
 

Cognovi

Knowledge worker
5+ Year Member
Feb 10, 2016
622
665
bit.ly
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
half the test is written by MIR faculty or friends of MIR faculty. they view their board review as equivalent to free time to study. maybe it's not. MIR is pretty old school in that regard and follows the ACGME directive of "no time off to study" pretty strictly
Maybe because an MIR faculty member is on the ACGME RC for radiology and another (the vice chair for education) is on the ABR board of trustees. It would be more scandalous if the MIR program skirted the rules.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

GadRads

7+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2012
593
331
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
half the test is written by MIR faculty or friends of MIR faculty. they view their board review as equivalent to free time to study. maybe it's not. MIR is pretty old school in that regard and follows the ACGME directive of "no time off to study" pretty strictly

I suspect they probably "share" their test questions with their residents, and so they may not need dedicated time. Maybe MIR attendings are better teachers, but many other residents at other programs have to study even more than they did for Step 1 (despite scoring 240-260+), so that time "off" is helpful. Many of them also studied fairly regularly as radiology residents.

Academicians (like core question writers) tend to be out of touch usually Beyond MOC: Should The ABR Scrap The Core Exam And Find A Way To Assess Competency Objectively? - RadsResident
 

mmityul

10+ Year Member
May 16, 2008
4
3
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
I don't want to engage in this silly thread but this got forwarded and I read a fair amount of these boards during my application process so I'd like to add a voice of reason. I'm a recent MIR grad and have nothing but excellent things to say about my training, mentors, and overall experience. The original poster doesn't sound like anyone who has worked or trained there, so I'm not sure why anyone would be incentivized to try to trash talk the program aside from someone trying to improve his/her odds of matching. MIR training was an amazing combination of hands-on experience with complex cases, procedures and graduated independent call, as well as engaging teaching from many brilliant researchers and textbook authors. The days we stayed late were for patient care, not scut work, and the whole team would pitch in to help. The PD is incredibly dedicated and there's a huge level of executive function and logistics that goes into keeping one of the best programs in the nation running smoothly. In practice, I'm grateful daily for my training as a fast and accurate reader and physician who knows how to problem solve, and many of my colleagues I've spoken to have shared this sentiment. All medical training is challenging and you'll hear complaints from across the board, but it should challenge you in ways that build the foundation for your career.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

LadyRads

2+ Year Member
Nov 10, 2017
5
6
I know their culture is not great even for faculty. Almost all breast imaging faculty apparently left and they hired from nearby institutions (SLU) to fill the gap. Even the new breast imaging chief from SLU has reputation for being malignant. I didn't even apply to their program for fellowship. A good education should not come at the price of being crushed or humiliated.
My husband did his fellowship at MIR and was shocked at how much their residents were overworked. He didn't like culture either. I'm not an applicant, so I don't have any motive to talk trash about them. Residents may come out strong but at what price? The institution itself is the problem, not the residents.

Board study time, we have a similar situation ourselves. Our PD is refusing to give us study time and is proud of following the rules!! Nonsense!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Feb 27, 2021
1
0
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
Hard to know if engaging in this thread is productive, but I would like to add a few thoughts as a current resident (PGY4). Regarding calls, the MIR night float system has long been known as one of the harder rotations as well as one of the most educational experiences of the entire program. Few of the large academic programs have been able to continue independent call for radiology residents and I believe it remains a formative experience for MIR trainees. It is certainly tiring but to my knowledge there are residents are not passing out. There are mechanisms in place to get coverage if a resident is out for medical reasons. For perspective, the schedule is two nights on followed by one night off, for two weeks (a total of 9/10 nights in 14 days). For most people who completed internships with 6 nights on and one night off, this is doable. The fact that residents answer phones and talk to clinicians who need to speak to a radiologist seems to me to be included in our job description as radiologists.
Regarding the program director, the idea that she has "goons" is ludicrous. It makes me wonder if this poster is actually familiar with my residency (as does the use of the term WashU Radiology since everyone here calls it MIR). She is known on IR as the attending most likely to tell you to stop what you are doing exactly at noon to attend lecture. IR is probably the only rotation where residents might miss conferences. Every other rotation it's understood the resident has protected didactic time. I won't deign to respond to some of the other claims in that post other than to say I've never seen anyone harassed in the manner described. If you are looking to train in a program where you work 25 hours a week, MIR is not for you. That said, in the interest of becoming a well-rounded radiologist who can handle case volume, make calls confidently, and actually improve patient care I'm happy with my choice of residency.
 

throk

2+ Year Member
Mar 18, 2016
33
25
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
I am a current applicant debating whether to rank MIR near the top of my list. When I initially saw this thread I wrote it off as a disgruntled resident trying to do damage to their own program. I couldn't believe any faculty was calling their trainees pieces of ****.

Seeing other people follow it up with statements like these has me extremely concerned now.

I remember all the residents seem tired/unhappy. We had a pre-interview dinner at 6 right across the street from the hospital and like half of the residents showed up late because they were working late.
Their residents come out extremely strong but I heard they got crushed.
A few of my attendings went there for residency....none of them spoke highly of their times there. 0 out of 3.
I know their culture is not great...A good education should not come at the price of being crushed or humiliated...My husband did his fellowship at MIR and was shocked at how much their residents were overworked.

This feels like a giant red flag. Can any current residents or recent alumni comment on why MIR is spoken of this way if it's not actually a malignant program? Was it previously true that residents were kept late, missed didactics, shamed in case conferences, overworked, unhappy? Have things changed?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Feb 21, 2021
3
2
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
To the MIR fans: if you don't want to engage in the thread then don't engage instead of doing your typical MIR passive aggressive way of engaging while saying you don't want to. It doesn't matter who we are. There are many of us who share the same experience of being abused at MIR. We are publicly humiliated in front of other residents. We get bullied by nurses/techs while the attendings laugh with them. The PD and her goons hold all the power. They do whatever they want to the residents. More calls are added, work days are made longer, residents get their benefits get cut. The only reason there is moonlighting was because residents were driving uber to make ends meet and it looked bad for the program. Now that there is moonlighting, it too is used as leverage by the PD who threatens to take shifts away from any resident who does or says anything she doesn't agree with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

godofsky

5+ Year Member
Mar 21, 2014
4
0
To the MIR fans: if you don't want to engage in the thread then don't engage instead of doing your typical MIR passive aggressive way of engaging while saying you don't want to. It doesn't matter who we are. There are many of us who share the same experience of being abused at MIR. We are publicly humiliated in front of other residents. We get bullied by nurses/techs while the attendings laugh with them. The PD and her goons hold all the power. They do whatever they want to the residents. More calls are added, work days are made longer, residents get their benefits get cut. The only reason there is moonlighting was because residents were driving uber to make ends meet and it looked bad for the program. Now that there is moonlighting, it too is used as leverage by the PD who threatens to take shifts away from any resident who does or says anything she doesn't agree with.
What is your typical study volume/breakdown and shift length on call?
How many nights do you have during residency?
What happens if you skip conference?
How many moonlighting shifts can you typically get in a month?
 

Kaputt

I am having a good time!
7+ Year Member
Jun 7, 2011
936
825
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
What is your typical study volume/breakdown and shift length on call?
How many nights do you have during residency?
What happens if you skip conference?
How many moonlighting shifts can you typically get in a month?

Call structure:

R2s and R3s each do 2 weeks of junior night float a total of 4 times. It's a three night rotating system: night 1 you cover 5pm-7am (you cover the children's hospital + adult ER plain films after about 9pm); night 2 you cover adult ED and urgent inpatient body CT 7pm-8am ish; night 3 you're off. So for that 2 week block, which you generally do 4 times during residency, you're on either 10 or 9 nights. These shifts are busy with you reading XR, US, CT independently. Residents don't cover MR on call (neuro fellows cover neuro MR, body fellows and attendings cover body MRs which are infrequent overnight). This is where you learn to be a radiologist. Cover level 1 trauma on both adult and peds sides. Cover hyperacute stroke CTA with neuro fellow on call as your backup. Rarely an R4 has to do a block of junior night float. If they do they get compensated by less shifts in the senior call pool. I think the dedicated IR people get some junior night float in their R4 year as well since they're not in the senior call pool otherwise.

R2s have rotating weeknight ER plain film swing shifts from 5pm-9pm. They also cover some weekend shifts also doing ER plain films (Saturday 12pm-9pm, Sunday 8am-5pm, Sunday 5pm-8pm); there are generally like 17-19 residents per class who those shifts are spread out between. So during R2 you probably have about 14 weeknight shifts about 8-9 total weekend shifts.

R3s as a class cover only 2 shifts per week, an afternoon Saturday (noon-5pm) and Sunday pediatrics shift (8am-5pm). So like a total of 5-6 of those shifts per year. And you're not in the call pool during board prep time. So call as an R3 is very light. While on the topic of R3 and board review time, you basically get 2 months of "study time" in the form of your AIRP block (which you can either do at AIRP or stay in St Louis and do a 'radpath' block which is basically just study time or time off) and another rotation which is basically just study time. Not everybody gets these 2 blocks right before boards so those who don't complain. There is board review from 4pm-6pm like everyday for several weeks. You otherwise don't have protected time to study during the week, but you have weekends and evenings off during study time (no call). No one as far as I know has ever failed the core.

R4s have a rotating weeknight ER shifts which parallel the R2 shifts. Probably like 14-16 weeknight shifts and 8-10 weekend shifts. This call shift goes from 5pm-midnight, then you go to sleep and are backup, and you get the next day off.

All of this call is independent and you read out your cases face to face with the attendings the next morning.

R1s and sometimes upper levels do random Saturday morning shifts with attendings (not independent) which usually is like an 8am-noon shift on something like nucs, chest, GI, ultrasound, whatever. Body CT and neuro have some slightly longer shifts. IR call is completely separate and mostly covered by fellows but per month on IR you probably work about 1 weekend.

What happens if you skip conference?
There are morning conferences on most rotations. Those are small groups with attendings generally curating great teaching cases for you and a couple other residents. If you miss those or are late, that's a bad look, and attendings take it personally because they put in work to curate content for you and it sends them the message that you don't care about their time or your own education. And you really shouldn't want to miss those. They're amazing conferences.

You're not supposed to skip the general noon conference (but I never got in trouble for skipping)


Moonlighting?
I remember getting a shift per month or so. It was scanner baby sitting overnight where you slept at the hospital and accumulated dollars by being physically present in the hospital (or sat there during the day on a Saturday or Sunday). I never even had a contrast reaction in 2 years of covering that stuff. Since I graduated they added more and more sites for coverage. Being assigned to some sites which were like 20 minutes away from main campus meant they even let you out of service early on those days. Disgruntled posters talk about moonlighting as a hammer the PD uses to beat the freedom out of you. That's crazy. The PD does use the threat of taking away your moonlighting shifts if you fail to complete things you're supposed to be doing (turning in evaluations, doing quizzes and checkboxes for ACGME crap, stuff like that). The PD's job is often herding cats. Having such wonderful, lucrative moonlighting far outweighs the annoyance of being told to do something you were supposed to do anyway.


If you couldn't tell, I'm an MIR grad and I'd be happy to answer any questions via PM by anybody who has them.

I don't know who OP is but they've been on a mission to air their grievances and they've been doing it the past calendar year via numerous sockpuppet accounts here. It's getting kinda ridiculous. If I were a prospective resident I'd take all this with a huge grain of salt.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Kaputt

I am having a good time!
7+ Year Member
Jun 7, 2011
936
825
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
To the MIR fans: if you don't want to engage in the thread then don't engage instead of doing your typical MIR passive aggressive way of engaging while saying you don't want to. It doesn't matter who we are. There are many of us who share the same experience of being abused at MIR. We are publicly humiliated in front of other residents. We get bullied by nurses/techs while the attendings laugh with them. The PD and her goons hold all the power. They do whatever they want to the residents. More calls are added, work days are made longer, residents get their benefits get cut. The only reason there is moonlighting was because residents were driving uber to make ends meet and it looked bad for the program. Now that there is moonlighting, it too is used as leverage by the PD who threatens to take shifts away from any resident who does or says anything she doesn't agree with.

1. Barnes Jewish Hospital controls your benefits, not the radiology program.
2. What calls are being added? The call schedule has been unchanged for like a decade
3. I was never bullied by a nurse or tech there. Not sure how that happened to you. But on day 1 I made it a point to treat everyone around me with respect, so I never had a negative interaction with any nurse or tech.
4. The uber story is pretty classic (and no, onlookers--I won't elaborate on that one)
 
Dec 11, 2020
76
52
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Call structure:

R2s and R3s each do 2 weeks of junior night float a total of 4 times. It's a three night rotating system: night 1 you cover 5pm-7am (you cover the children's hospital + adult ER plain films after about 9pm); night 2 you cover adult ED and urgent inpatient body CT 7pm-8am ish; night 3 you're off. So for that 2 week block, which you generally do 4 times during residency, you're on either 10 or 9 nights. These shifts are busy with you reading XR, US, CT independently. Residents don't cover MR on call (neuro fellows cover neuro MR, body fellows and attendings cover body MRs which are infrequent overnight). This is where you learn to be a radiologist. Cover level 1 trauma on both adult and peds sides. Cover hyperacute stroke CTA with neuro fellow on call as your backup. Rarely an R4 has to do a block of junior night float. If they do they get compensated by less shifts in the senior call pool. I think the dedicated IR people get some junior night float in their R4 year as well since they're not in the senior call pool otherwise.

R2s have rotating weeknight ER plain film swing shifts from 5pm-9pm. They also cover some weekend shifts also doing ER plain films (Saturday 12pm-9pm, Sunday 8am-5pm, Sunday 5pm-8pm); there are generally like 17-19 residents per class who those shifts are spread out between. So during R2 you probably have about 14 weeknight shifts about 8-9 total weekend shifts.

R3s as a class cover only 2 shifts per week, an afternoon Saturday (noon-5pm) and Sunday pediatrics shift (8am-5pm). So like a total of 5-6 of those shifts per year. And you're not in the call pool during board prep time. So call as an R3 is very light. While on the topic of R3 and board review time, you basically get 2 months of "study time" in the form of your AIRP block (which you can either do at AIRP or stay in St Louis and do a 'radpath' block which is basically just study time or time off) and another rotation which is basically just study time. Not everybody gets these 2 blocks right before boards so those who don't complain. There is board review from 4pm-6pm like everyday for several weeks. You otherwise don't have protected time to study during the week, but you have weekends and evenings off during study time (no call). No one as far as I know has ever failed the core.

R4s have a rotating weeknight ER shifts which parallel the R2 shifts. Probably like 14-16 weeknight shifts and 8-10 weekend shifts. This call shift goes from 5pm-midnight, then you go to sleep and are backup, and you get the next day off.

All of this call is independent and you read out your cases face to face with the attendings the next morning.

R1s and sometimes upper levels do random Saturday morning shifts with attendings (not independent) which usually is like an 8am-noon shift on something like nucs, chest, GI, ultrasound, whatever. Body CT and neuro have some slightly longer shifts. IR call is completely separate and mostly covered by fellows but per month on IR you probably work about 1 weekend.

What happens if you skip conference?
There are morning conferences on most rotations. Those are small groups with attendings generally curating great teaching cases for you and a couple other residents. If you miss those or are late, that's a bad look, and attendings take it personally because they put in work to curate content for you and it sends them the message that you don't care about their time or your own education. And you really shouldn't want to miss those. They're amazing conferences.

You're not supposed to skip the general noon conference (but I never got in trouble for skipping)


Moonlighting?
I remember getting a shift per month or so. It was scanner baby sitting overnight where you slept at the hospital and accumulated dollars by being physically present in the hospital (or sat there during the day on a Saturday or Sunday). I never even had a contrast reaction in 2 years of covering that stuff. Since I graduated they added more and more sites for coverage. Being assigned to some sites which were like 20 minutes away from main campus meant they even let you out of service early on those days. Disgruntled posters talk about moonlighting as a hammer the PD uses to beat the freedom out of you. That's crazy. The PD does use the threat of taking away your moonlighting shifts if you fail to complete things you're supposed to be doing (turning in evaluations, doing quizzes and checkboxes for ACGME crap, stuff like that). The PD's job is often herding cats. Having such wonderful, lucrative moonlighting far outweighs the annoyance of being told to do something you were supposed to do anyway.


If you couldn't tell, I'm an MIR grad and I'd be happy to answer any questions via PM by anybody who has them.

I don't know who OP is but they've been on a mission to air their grievances and they've been doing it the past calendar year via numerous sockpuppet accounts here. It's getting kinda ridiculous. If I were a prospective resident I'd take all this with a huge grain of salt.

wait, 14-16 weeks of night float as an R4!? Am I reading that right?
 

Kaputt

I am having a good time!
7+ Year Member
Jun 7, 2011
936
825
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
wait, 14-16 weeks of night float as an R4!? Am I reading that right?
14-16 weeknight shifts, aka individual nights for the academic year. Not 14-16 weeks. They are swing shifts after a day of normal work, followed by a day off
 

GadRads

7+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2012
593
331
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
The call schedule at MIR is similar to my program's schedule with very busy call shifts. My program may have had slightly more call shifts. Some might consider that as getting crushed, but I view it as good training. Note that I am assuming whoever posted the MIR schedule is truthful, and that the schedule has not changed significantly since he/she left the program.

After reading all the comments, I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I suspect the program tends to have favorites who get better treatment than other non-favored residents. This model creates graduates who will swear by MIR and others who will always despise their time there. Overall, this raises the question as to whether MIR treats its employees equitably.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.
About the Ads