WashU

[Ramon]

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Anyone have any experience here? I just interviewed here and wanted to know if there is any inside information. My interview day was "Okay"

Thank you.
R

 

[superkeith]

Anyone have any experience here? I just interviewed here and wanted to know if there is any inside information. My interview day was "Okay"

Thank you.
R

certainly washu has a tremendous reputation in both ap and cp. i am not a resident there, and did not interview there, so i cannot comment on the program directly. however, i will add that st. louis is pretty happening place and can be a cool location to spend your residency years.

 

[Napoleon1801]

How is St. Louis? I keep hearing about how its ranked #2 in the US for crime.

 

[superkeith]

How is St. Louis? I keep hearing about how its ranked #2 in the US for crime.

yea, im not sure what to make of those reports. to be sure, there are some areas of st. louis that i did not make a habit of frequenting, but im sure most large cities have areas that are not the best. because i never hang out in those areas, they werent a part of my st. louis experience.

st. louis is all about the neighborhoods, and people who only go to the downtown area are missing out. south grand, soulard, central west end, university city, the hill, dogtown, clayton, etc. are all neighborhoods with a personality of their own. when a group of us would mobilize at night, all we had to do was say "dogtown," and we'd eventually run into each other.

barnes is located in a nice area, beside central west end and directly adjacent to forest park, home to the gratis art museum, zoo and science center.

 

[longlakeboy]

How is St. Louis? I keep hearing about how its ranked #2 in the US for crime.

The area around Barnes is very, very nice. Forest Park, has a ton of free stuff, including museums and the zoo.

St. Louis is a small city square mileage-wise, and there's a ton of crime concentrated in north part of the city. You won't need to be anywhere near that part of town.

The area around the hospital you don't need to worry about, and as mentioned about, there are a ton of neighborhoods in and around downtown that are safe and very nice. Let me throw Lafayette Square into the mix, which is right by Soulard - it's a small neighborhood with a great park and several fantastic restaurants, and they're building a complex with a grocery, Walgreens, and Starbucks pretty soon. It's about 10 minute drive from Barnes. I live here and walk my dog at night and never feel unsafe.

 

[LADoc00]

How is St. Louis? I keep hearing about how its ranked #2 in the US for crime.

Crime number you quote is East St. Louis, which is actually in the state of IL not MO.

St. Louis MO proper is the most underrated place in the US IMO. Cost of Living is low, public transportation is adequate and there is a ton is to do.

Im actually planning a vacation there later in 2008, incredible blues&jazz clubs, BBQ places, museums etc.

There isnt another place Ive ever been like it. Hint of New Orleans, hint of Chicago with a Kansas City-like base.

 

[gbwillner]

Anyone have any experience here? I just interviewed here and wanted to know if there is any inside information. My interview day was "Okay"

Thank you.
R

From your post, it doesn't sound like you were terribly impressed with WashU.

WashU is top-notch in both AP and CP, with great research and diagnostic training. While St. Louis is underrated as many people point out, it's this location that holds many top applicants from going there.
I myself was very impressed with both the quality of their training and the philosophy and direction of the department.

 

[mlw03]

From your post, it doesn't sound like you were not terribly impressed with WashU.

WashU is top-notch in both AP and CP, with great research and diagnostic training. While St. Louis is underrated as many people point out, it's this location that holds many top applicants from going there.
I myself was very impressed with both the quality of their training and the philosophy and direction of the department.

and this is why it's a "match" - we all have different career and personal goals, and therefore each program will suits our particular needs differently. i'm sure i'll be ranking some programs higher or lower than convention would suggest because of my needs. for someone with your goals, it sounds like WashU fits them, so hopefully they feel similarly about you.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

Crime number you quote is East St. Louis, which is actually in the state of IL not MO.

St. Louis MO proper is the most underrated place in the US IMO. Cost of Living is low, public transportation is adequate and there is a ton is to do.

Im actually planning a vacation there later in 2008, incredible blues&jazz clubs, BBQ places, museums etc.

There isnt another place Ive ever been like it. Hint of New Orleans, hint of Chicago with a Kansas City-like base.

Agreed. The lou is an awesome place with tons to do, and since most tend to never move away the city has a provincial feel and it's coolness remains unknown by other Americans who consider it flyover country. Awesome cuisine, tons of history, a vibrant arts scene, and thriving suburbs if you have a family. PLus, I think this is one of the underrated aspects of St. Louis, you are in close proxiimity to so many cool burgs for weekend trips. I can't even count the number of times in medical school after a block finished that friends and I would take off to KC, or Memphis, or Chicago, or Indianapolis, or Pittsburgh, or Louisville, or Cincinatti for the weekend.

As far as crime goes, the statistics are not just for East St. Louis. That annual crime report ranked St. Louis proper as #1 last year and #2 this year. And as my classmate superkeith attests, the area around the hospitals is generally pretty good along with the gentrifying neighborhoods of the south side and near north side. But the north side (north of Delmar and along I-70 is a war zone). IMO as the city has begun to improve and people are moving back into the gentrifying historic neighborhoods the north side has gotten worse.

I interviewed at Wash U last year and rotated there as a medical student. The volume and diversity is unmatched. Tons of complicated specimens, lots of junior faculty just out of fellowship for sub-specialty sign out, big national names who sign out with residents... they have a lot to offer. I think the program is great and trains great residents. I would have been content to match there.

That said, there were some negatives. For whatever reason, 4th years from Wash U last year had no interest in continuing on for residency. I knew a couple of them and they all planned on going elsewhere (I take that as a worrisome sign). I did not like their lack of dedicated preview time and their hot seat program. Also, they were in the midst of switching chairs last year and are in the midst of building and moving into a new building. They had to scramble residents in last year. Finally, they do the first 2 years straight AP and second 2 CP and electives (many programs do this but I am not a fan).

 

[gbwillner]

That said, there were some negatives. For whatever reason, 4th years from Wash U last year had no interest in continuing on for residency. I knew a couple of them and they all planned on going elsewhere (I take that as a worrisome sign). I did not like their lack of dedicated preview time and their hot seat program. Also, they were in the midst of switching chairs last year and are in the midst of building and moving into a new building. They had to scramble residents in last year. Finally, they do the first 2 years straight AP and second 2 CP and electives (many programs do this but I am not a fan).

I shared some of your concerns... I've yet to see how the move into the new building will affect training (no one has really answered this question). I think most WashU med students want to get out of St Louis, although there are a few in the program that I recall. I saw similar things at Yale and other schools outside of major, desirable cities.
That said, I really like the new chairman and the direction of the program. As far as scrambling goes, I've heard both Penn and MGH did this... So I won't hold it against them (Actually, I heard they did not fill their spots). I also find their schedule less "sexy" than combined AP/CP schedules, but after talking to people in the combined programs I've come to see the strengths of this schedule.
I also like the "hotseat", which gives you an opportunitiy to show your stuff, and is only avalable at few institutions (to the jealousy of many others).

 

[mlw03]

gbwiller - care to explain your perceived advantages of the split AP-CP training that WashU, and a few others do. i've been places that do this too, and i can only see negatives to such a system. i'm not trying to be argumentative (in case that's the tone that seems to come through), rather i'm curious to hear the thoughts of a fellow applicant on this topic that i've spent considerable time thinking about myself.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

So there is no confusion, the hotseat program at Wash U is for surgical pathology fellows. Every specimen is sent to the fellow on the hot seat who renders a preliminary diagnosis so that clinicians can call for immediate results. Thus, as a resident, you won't see a specimen that has not already been looked at and preliminarily diagnosed. I agree that this is great training for fellows, but I feel it steals autonomy from residents.

 

[LADoc00]

Just an FYI, modern pathology training was essentially invented in St. Louis, both AP and CP. Prior to 1948, there was no such thing as a surgical pathologist as we know it today and neither was there a field of lab medicine/cp. Pathology=autopsy prior to Lauren Ackerman's revolution after WWII.

 

[gbwillner]

gbwiller - care to explain your perceived advantages of the split AP-CP training that WashU, and a few others do. i've been places that do this too, and i can only see negatives to such a system. i'm not trying to be argumentative (in case that's the tone that seems to come through), rather i'm curious to hear the thoughts of a fellow applicant on this topic that i've spent considerable time thinking about myself.

While I agree that on the surface this scheduling scheme seems inherently more "boring" and raises the possibility that you'll forget some aspects of path while doing other things, it becomes much easier to schedule didactic lectures that relate to your current service, allows you to develop an eye for the scope, and helps protect CP time and research.
As an example of the latter I'll just mention that at some programs, you may be pulled from CP if someone on surgpath gets sick to cover, but that doesn't happen when the training is split (granted good CP programs have protected CP time). Furthermore, it allows you to get through the more labor-intensive rotations in the first two years, as in general CP has less hours. This also allows you to have time to complete research projects while still covering CP without much interruption, something that is practically impossible to do at a high-volume AP training program.
Lastly, I'll just say that I spoke with residents who picked a program because of the combined AP/CP training, and after a few years of experience said it really didn't make any difference in their training and some even said in retrospect that they would have rather done the program split.

So at this point, I think it's a toss-up and I don't think it will weigh heavily in my decision-making.

 

[mlw03]

thanks for your explanation - i think you made a good point about research, something i'm not too interested in. i want to do my project or two and that's about it. i would agree that the split system probably leads to better CP training, but in my opinion it would be at the expense of getting to see surg path every year, which is something i'd prefer.

 

[gbwillner]

... but in my opinion it would be at the expense of getting to see surg path every year, which is something i'd prefer.

This is true for core surgpath, but don't forget that most programs that are split (with possibly the exception of Yale that is super-split) will let you do your AP electives 3rd and 4th years anyway, so that if you're interested in a surgpath specialty you'll still do them at that time.

 

[superkeith]

They had to scramble residents in last year.

<hi-five>Ziehl-Nielsen</hi-five>
whacky match last year. my understanding is that washu, upenn and u washington did not fill their ap/cp spots last year. very interestingly, washu sent 1 to the upenn program, and 2 to the uwash program. also, 1 did in fact stay at washu.

certainly, these are all great programs. last year was just very atypical.

 

[Tiki]

In Penn's defense, they interview such a small number of people considering their number of spots, that I'm not surprised they went unfilled one year. The PD told me they are interviewing between 50-60 people for 8 spots this year, very similar to what they've done in years past. Then you look at a program like BID who interviewes close to 100 people for the same number of spots, and it comes as no surprise that Penn had to scramble last year.

Maybe WashU does something similar.

 

[mlw03]

that's a very low ratio for Penn; most places seem to be about 10:1. i wonder why they feel they can get away with less. it's not like Philly is such a super-awesome destination that people are clamoring to be there.

 

[Neddy]

that's a very low ratio for Penn; most places seem to be about 10:1. i wonder why they feel they can get away with less. it's not like Philly is such a super-awesome destination that people are clamoring to be there.

They can normally get away with less because they are one of the best, if not the best funded departments in the country on the research side, and have been traditionally attractive to, and interested in, a relatively small pool of research-oriented applicants. Last year, they basically told applicants "we're totally redoing our entire surg path system, and we're not sure what it will look like." Obviously a lot of people thought that was too much uncertainty, resulting in some unfilled match spots. It may have just been a one-year issue, although there were rumors of other factors in posts on this forum and elsewhere which I can't really speak to.

 

[LADoc00]

topic derailed....

AFAIK-Penn used to have a mandatory research year for everyone. There is no other program I was aware of in the 1990s that had a similar requirement. That *might* be an underlying factor in all this.

 

[yaah]

A mandatory research year was fine when it could be used as a credentialling year. But now it's an extra year of training so they can't really require it anymore, I would think.

 

[gschl1234]

topic derailed....

AFAIK-Penn used to have a mandatory research year for everyone. There is no other program I was aware of in the 1990s that had a similar requirement. That *might* be an underlying factor in all this.

They don't require it anymore. Any resident may choose to take a year off for research and the department promises to fully fund the extra year.