Wasting my life in medicine?

[ToySoldier1980]

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Does anyone else feel like they are wasting their time in medicine? I have been on a couple of rotations with other physicians and all they complain about is the work-load, EMR, bureaucracy, and the limitations of health-care. they seem to work harder, but getting less reward.

 

[operaman]

I think it all depends on your expectations and perspective. As a non-trad (and judging by your username you might be too) with a lot of pre-medicine work experience, I can assure you that there is profound suckage in every job. There really isn't any job out there in any field that avoids suckage entirely, so it's up to us to decide if the innate suckage is balanced out by the good parts. That's a really personal decision, but I know a number of physicians who feel like it is. Doesn't stop them from complaining about the suckage -- it's the true American pastime after all -- but if you ask, many will say it's still worth it. Others will feel differently. What matters is how you feel personally.

I'll add that there is a really strange perception out there among some physicians and maybe I'm just too early in my training to understand it yet. An example: when I was on my rural family medicine rotation, I was in the doctor's lounge at the hospital listening to the table of docs next to me wax on about how awful it is, how much suckage there is, and how they aren't making as much money. While sitting there, I decided to do some googling and found 2/4 of the salaries of the docs at the table: $380,000 last year for the FM doc at the table, and $680,000 last year for the cardiologist at the table. Maybe things were much better in the past and I'm sure there's still lots of suckage, but how much money were they making before?!

 

[ChEMD]

I feel like even while in medical school you can almost tell which classmates are going to end up like the physicians that you're describing and which ones are going to truly enjoy their job. And like operaman said above, that's exactly what it is, a job. And no job comes without things that you have to do that you wish you didn't.

 

[operaman]

I feel like even while in medical school you can almost tell which classmates are going to end up like the physicians that you're describing and which ones are going to truly enjoy their job. And like operaman said above, that's exactly what it is, a job. And no job comes without things that you have to do that you wish you didn't.

Yes! As I think back, there's a common theme with these sorts of people that transcends the field they're in: a lack of appreciation/gratitude for the good and exciting aspects of their current situation. They are always unhappy with whatever they are doing and always looking forward to "one day" when all will be better. During preclinical years they complain about classes/PBL and look forward to clinical years when they can finally get in the hospital. Then in clinical years they're miserable and can't wait to graduate and start residency when they'll finally be making a little money and won't be a student anymore. Then the suckage of residency starts and they look forward to being an attending. And then attendinghood comes with its own set of suckage, only now they've actually arrived and there's no new "suckage free" level to look forward to.

You can apply that same metric to any field - business, Ibanking, law, etc. The themes are basically the same - always looking forward to the next level as the remedy to current suckage, failing to realize that new suckage will come. All you can do is focus on the parts you enjoy and be thankful you have the opportunity to do something so few ever get the chance to do. Look for opportunities to find joy and excitement, and occasionally grab a beer with your coworkers and complain about your mutual suckage as you learn what "day in and day out" really means!

 

[Freddie Mercury]

The themes are basically the same - always looking forward to the next level as the remedy to current suckage, failing to realize that new suckage will come. All you can do is focus on the parts you enjoy and be thankful you have the opportunity to do something so few ever get the chance to do. Look for opportunities to find joy and excitement, and occasionally grab a beer with your coworkers and complain about your mutual suckage as you learn what "day in and day out" really means!

 

[DokterMom]

I think it all depends on your expectations and perspective. As a non-trad (and judging by your username you might be too) with a lot of pre-medicine work experience, I can assure you that there is profound suckage in every job. There really isn't any job out there in any field that avoids suckage entirely, so it's up to us to decide if the innate suckage is balanced out by the good parts. That's a really personal decision, but I know a number of physicians who feel like it is. Doesn't stop them from complaining about the suckage -- it's the true American pastime after all -- but if you ask, many will say it's still worth it.

Yes! As I think back, there's a common theme with these sorts of people that transcends the field they're in: a lack of appreciation/gratitude for the good and exciting aspects of their current situation. They are always unhappy with whatever they are doing and always looking forward to "one day" when all will be better. During preclinical years they complain about classes/PBL and look forward to clinical years when they can finally get in the hospital. Then in clinical years they're miserable and can't wait to graduate and start residency when they'll finally be making a little money and won't be a student anymore. Then the suckage of residency starts and they look forward to being an attending. And then attendinghood comes with its own set of suckage, only now they've actually arrived and there's no new "suckage free" level to look forward to.

You can apply that same metric to any field - business, Ibanking, law, etc. The themes are basically the same - always looking forward to the next level as the remedy to current suckage, failing to realize that new suckage will come. All you can do is focus on the parts you enjoy and be thankful you have the opportunity to do something so few ever get the chance to do. Look for opportunities to find joy and excitement, and occasionally grab a beer with your coworkers and complain about your mutual suckage as you learn what "day in and day out" really means!

Quoted for truth -- Welcome to Real Life.

 

[Doctor Bob]

As an attending the same stupid administrative s*** is still there. The advantage is, you can, from time to time, say no. You can't do that as a resident and you can't do that as a student. So that increases the job satisfaction a little bit.
But then there are additional burdens that get piled on. So it's a trade. As the one with the license, you can pick and choose when you want to make a stand and refuse to do stuff. But you have to weigh the time-benefit of fighting versus acquiescing. Some times it's worth it, some times not.

 

[C@lidoc]

As a non-trad, every job has some aspect that sucks. Unless you happen to be Hugh Hefner.

 

[Mad Jack]

As a non-trad, every job has some aspect that sucks. Unless you happen to be Hugh Hefner.

Rumor has it the guy's so desensitized he can't even get it up anymore. All the sexy girls in the world and zero ability to bang them sounds dowright awful.

I guess the moral of the story is, too much of a good thing can ruin that good thing for you if you aren't careful. It's for this reason that I'm a big fan of doing what you like, rather than what you love, as turning what you love into a job can destroy that thing for you forever if you aren't mindful.

 

[C@lidoc]

Rumor has it the guy's so desensitized he can't even get it up anymore. All the sexy girls in the world and zero ability to bang them sounds dowright awful.

Well, it could be his age too...I don't know too many men his age with the desire to bang all those girls.

 

[Mad Jack]

Well, it could be his age too...I don't know too many men his age with the desire to bang all those girls.

Fair enough. And I guess that's what Viagra is for anyway.

What's the career equivalent of Viagra for doctors? Cash only PP?

 

[NontradCA]

I'll take the money and come back for more everyday. Working minimum wage in fast food is wasting your life. Going into a career with a $100/hr minimum. Nahhhhhhhh

 

[sinombre]

Fair enough. And I guess that's what Viagra is for anyway.

What's the career equivalent of Viagra for doctors? Cash only PP?

Retirement?

 

[Slack3r]

Well, it could be his age too...I don't know too many men his age with the ability to bang all those girls.

FTFY.

 

[MrGrrrMonster]

People like to complain. I have been around plenty of docs complaining about this and that. As kinda stated above, doing what you truly love (like) and enjoy will lead to less complaints, but at the same time everyone has something to **tch about. In the end its about doing what you enjoy rather than solely monetary gains. There are lots of jobs out there that pay much higher than being a doctor. I have a buddy who works for a large financial institution in New York and likely makes exponentially more than I do/ will ever make- with much less "training"- but I would hate that job. I would advise you to invest your time in what you think is worthwhile.

 

[NontradCA]

People like to complain. I have been around plenty of docs complaining about this and that. As kinda stated above, doing what you truly love (like) and enjoy will lead to less complaints, but at the same time everyone has something to **tch about. In the end its about doing what you enjoy rather than solely monetary gains. There are lots of jobs out there that pay much higher than being a doctor. I have a buddy who works for a large financial institution in New York and likely makes exponentially more than I do/ will ever make- with much less "training"- but I would hate that job. I would advise you to invest your time in what you think is worthwhile.

Yea and while we're at it, Mark Cuban is a billionare and owns an NBA team.

 

[C@lidoc]

FTFY.

You mean enough Viagra? I hear it's expensive these days.

 

[operaman]

How'd you google salaries for those specific people?

Anyhow, to the original poster, some people just complain about everything. I'm one of those people. I'll always have a reason to complain about something. For instance, right now I'm upset that the city I'll be going to med school in has crappy internet service providers. I've also been pissed about a paypal dispute I'm having with an ebay seller. Yet another complaint is that I can't lift weights because of my injured hand.

Well I kinda got lucky. You see, all nonprofits with a few exceptions have to file a tax return (Form 990) and these are publicly accessible documents. Many hospitals and physician groups are operated as non-profits and fall under the same reporting requirements. Generally they report the salaries of the 5 highest paid employees as well as salaries of any directors/officers within the organization; this is oversimplifying things, but generally you can find some good stuff.

I got lucky in that this hospital reported a LOT of information AND the docs at the table were a little more "seasoned" and thus likely to be officers/directors/key employees where their salaries would be published.

Just google "form 990 online" and there are tons of free sites that let you search 990s.

One more thing: the stimulus package of 2009 included something called the paperwork reduction act (or something that sounded like that) that reduced the filing requirements for certain nonprofits, so if you find minimal forms for the recent years, look back at something from 2008 and see if there's a lot more.

 

[a good soldier]

When operaman said that he was a nontraditional student, he meant that he used to work for the NSA.

 

[Taurus]

As someone who had a good career before medicine, I can attest to there being suckage in every profession and job. I'm glad that I do have that experience because on my worst days as a physician I can say that I would rather being doing this than what I did before. It's about being grateful for what you have and having perspective in life.

 

[JP2740]

Does anyone else feel like they are wasting their time in medicine? I have been on a couple of rotations with other physicians and all they complain about is the work-load, EMR, bureaucracy, and the limitations of health-care. they seem to work harder, but getting less reward.

Yea, you are. I'm gonna go get another drink

 

[Ophthoseidon]

Obviously you need to go in it for other reasons besides money. But coming from a family who had a median income of < 30k, seeing people complain about their $380,000 as a family doc makes me want to vomit. I understand if you've made more and it goes down it sucks, but what an ignorant ****. Probably grew up with parents as physicians too.

 

[Psai]

Obviously you need to go in it for other reasons besides money. But coming from a family who had a median income of < 30k, seeing people complain about their $380,000 as a family doc makes me want to vomit. I understand if you've made more and it goes down it sucks, but what an ignorant ****. Probably grew up with parents as physicians too.

It doesn't matter what you grew up with. Physicians should be paid for the hard work, dedication, responsibility and liability

 

[DrBodacious]

Rumor has it the guy's so desensitized he can't even get it up anymore. All the sexy girls in the world and zero ability to bang them sounds dowright awful.

I guess the moral of the story is, too much of a good thing can ruin that good thing for you if you aren't careful. It's for this reason that I'm a big fan of doing what you like, rather than what you love, as turning what you love into a job can destroy that thing for you forever if you aren't mindful.

Obviously you need to go in it for other reasons besides money. But coming from a family who had a median income of < 30k, seeing people complain about their $380,000 as a family doc makes me want to vomit. I understand if you've made more and it goes down it sucks, but what an ignorant ****. Probably grew up with parents as physicians too.

This person probably have a substantial administrative position that adds to their compensation. I don't know the MGMA data for FM, but usually non profits need to justify their salaries, eg can not exceed 75%ile for the specialty. $380,000 seems high for that.

It is interesting to hear a family described as having a "median income." You have a large family and half make above $29,999 and half make below? Do you think the education, resumes, skill set, demand for the lower paying jobs deserve much higher pay? How about the hours the lower paid family members make, do the work full time or do they work nights and weekends?

The other thing I will say is that most of the folks posting here who are put off by the supposed complaining about decreased salaries will be complaining themselves.

One thing I learned mid residency (from my own introspection on how I had internally criticized actions as a student/intern) is to not judge your upper level. You don't have the same prospective they have, and you usually realize where they are coming from later on. I'm not saying everyone is right, just take mental notes and think about later when you get more prospective, rather than going around thinking people are unethical, bad clinicians, greedy, etc.

 

[Mad Jack]

This person probably have a substantial administrative position that adds to their compensation. I don't know the MGMA data for FM, but usually non profits need to justify their salaries, eg can not exceed 75%ile for the specialty. $380,000 seems high for that.

It is interesting to hear a family described as having a "median income." You have a large family and half make above $29,999 and half make below? Do you think the education, resumes, skill set, demand for the lower paying jobs deserve much higher pay? How about the hours the lower paid family members make, do the work full time or do they work nights and weekends?

The other thing I will say is that most of the folks posting here who are put off by the supposed complaining about decreased salaries will be complaining themselves.

One thing I learned mid residency (from my own introspection on how I had internally criticized actions as a student/intern) is to not judge your upper level. You don't have the same prospective they have, and you usually realize where they are coming from later on. I'm not saying everyone is right, just take mental notes and think about later when you get more prospective, rather than going around thinking people are unethical, bad clinicians, greedy, etc.

Physician groups that staff hospitals are often for-profit and don't have to justify a damn thing. Most likely, given the fact he's working for a rural hospital, he isn't acting as a FM doc, but rather as a hospitalist. In a lot of rural hospitals, even the ICUs end up being staffed by FM hospitalist physicians a good amount of the time. It isn't really an apples to apples comparison when you've got big city outpatient FM clinic docs being compared with rural hospitals that are playing Jack of all trades on the inpatient units in a CAH, thus making any MGMA comparisons meaningless to begin with.

 

[NeedToStudy]

Well, it could be his age too...I don't know too many men his age with the desire to bang all those girls.

I'm pretty sure they have the desire. I've actually seen older men check out and sometimes even try to flirt with women who are much younger. They probably don't have the ability though.

 

[Ophthoseidon]

It doesn't matter what you grew up with. Physicians should be paid for the hard work, dedication, responsibility and liability

I totally agree they should get paid for everything, I'm just sick of people complaining about their jobs

This person probably have a substantial administrative position that adds to their compensation. I don't know the MGMA data for FM, but usually non profits need to justify their salaries, eg can not exceed 75%ile for the specialty. $380,000 seems high for that.

It is interesting to hear a family described as having a "median income." You have a large family and half make above $29,999 and half make below? Do you think the education, resumes, skill set, demand for the lower paying jobs deserve much higher pay? How about the hours the lower paid family members make, do the work full time or do they work nights and weekends?

The other thing I will say is that most of the folks posting here who are put off by the supposed complaining about decreased salaries will be complaining themselves.

One thing I learned mid residency (from my own introspection on how I had internally criticized actions as a student/intern) is to not judge your upper level. You don't have the same prospective they have, and you usually realize where they are coming from later on. I'm not saying everyone is right, just take mental notes and think about later when you get more prospective, rather than going around thinking people are unethical, bad clinicians, greedy, etc.

I should have said "mean" income (even though median would still be accurate), but I meant if you spanned it over 5 years it'd probably come out to less than $30,000 average. And I am not disagreeing with the fact they should make what they do. I believe many physicians are underpaid for various reasons, but it is a privilege to be where we are. I just can't stand when people complain about making that much money. Sure it might suck, but in that scenario where he was sitting in the cafeteria, just about everyone in the cafeteria is making less than you. Of course they deserve probably more than what they get, but complaining about it in a public setting like that just irks me I guess.

 

[Bancrofti]

I totally agree they should get paid for everything, I'm just sick of people complaining about their jobs



I should have said "mean" income (even though median would still be accurate), but I meant if you spanned it over 5 years it'd probably come out to less than $30,000 average. And I am not disagreeing with the fact they should make what they do. I believe many physicians are underpaid for various reasons, but it is a privilege to be where we are. I just can't stand when people complain about making that much money. Sure it might suck, but in that scenario where he was sitting in the cafeteria, just about everyone in the cafeteria is making less than you. Of course they deserve probably more than what they get, but complaining about it in a public setting like that just irks me I guess.

Complaining about it at all irks me. I can almost understand people who maybe at one point made a certain amount, structured their life around an expected continuous income of the same level, then had to deal with unnecessary cuts that significantly impacted their salary. I think one should be allowed a few seconds to wallow in your misery but then take a step back that you are still more financially secure than 99% of the country.
I think the parent doctor thing or professional parent thing must be true. Coming from a single parent home with 2 bros and a parent who made twice what u said your mean was, I can't fathom making even 100k. I remember I made more than 15k one year in college and I felt rich. I think as far as how much we make, at times doctors may want to complain but just take a quick step back and really think whether or not your salary dropping down to 300,000 really "sucks."
Granted, I'm sure we'll all be complaining until school loans get paid off.

 

[C@lidoc]

I'm pretty sure they have the desire. I've actually seen older men check out and sometimes even try to flirt with women who are much younger. They probably don't have the ability though.

Idk. A guy with Testosterone levels of a pre-pubescent girl may not be interested in sex, although I'm sure some guys up in their 80s may still be interested. Viagra is still an option.

 

[ToySoldier1980]

Thanks for the input. It was a little off-putting to be around these docs. I wonder if it physicians just don't have the knowledge on managing their time or are just really inefficient with how they spend their day, making themselves do more work than they should. Seems like a lot are re-inventing the wheel.