Wayne State vs CMU vs Quinnipiac (Netter)?

[goodmornin]

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Hi everyone! I am lucky to have been accepted into 3 MD schools and was hoping to get some advice on which to attend. I've created a small pros/ cons list below for each school and would love to hear your thoughts. Some background about me is that I'm a Colorado resident and would be traveling out of state for each of these choices. I am not entirely sure about which specialty I want to pursue but am in favor of going into something slightly more competitive. I have also been waitlisted at Albany, Tulane, CUSOM. CU would be my top choice if I were to be accepted (given its reputation/ proximity to home), however, I've been told I am in the bottom 1/3rd of waitlistees. Every physician I've worked with has also told me to the cheapest route which is CMU (including a $10,000/semester FA package), although I think it may be difficult to match into competitive specialties there. Aside from CMU, I haven't really received any FA, so I'd love to hear what everyone has to say. Thanks!

Wayne State University School of Medicine

• Pros
  • Classes not mandatory
  • vast research/ service opportunities
  • urban location/ fun things to do in Detroit
  • vast clinical opportunities and diverse patient population
  • clinical training is mainly done by residents
• Cons
  • Not true P/F (honors)
  • administration issues/ poor communication with students
  • large class size (300)
  • higher COL
  • problems with accreditation in the past

Central Michigan University School of Medicine

• Pros
  • Smaller class size
  • Attendance mandatory
  • P/F
  • lower COL/ tuition/ FA package received
• Cons
  • few research opportunities
  • mandatory attendance
  • suburban campus
  • Relocation for M3/M4 (need to move to Mt. Pleasant)
  • less extensive hospital network
  • less extensive reputation

Quinnipiac University School of Medicine

• Pros
  • Very supportive faculty, very well-liked school
  • More clinical experience in preclinical years (MESH program)
  • Better support in transition to medical school
  • Smaller classes
  • fairly good match list (especially considering school size, reputation, etc.)
  • super nice facilities
  • cheaper COL
• Cons
  • Fewer research opportunities
  • No internal hospital system, (all away rotations/ lots of driving)
  • living in suburban New Haven (but close to a lot of big cities)
  • newer/ less established institution

 

[m1redsox]

Can you provide the overall cost of each school?

 

[goodmornin]

Can you provide the overall cost of each school?

Of course! Below is just for tuition.

WSU: $68,628 (w/ $1000 FA package)
CMU: $54,062 (w/ $10,000 FA package)
Netter: $63,170 (no FA package received)

 

[m1redsox]

In that case, I’d go with Wayne St. $14k/year is reasonable to pay to give yourself the best chance at any specialty. Wayne has residency programs in every specialty and is known to keep many of their own students, which is a massive advantage.

 

[wysdoc]

Wayne State Match List OFFICIAL - 2024 Match Lists

 

[Sandman23]

Quinnipiac no question for me. Notice how schools like Carle and Quinnipiac with no affiliated academic centers can do multiple away rotations. If a school has an affiliated academic hospital, it can only allow for 1 away per student. So no wonder the Carle & Quinnipiac match lists are bonkers. On the same vein, I wouldn't worry abt research. Idk about CMU but I'll go with it having few research opps based on your list. And not sure about Quinnipiac either tbh but having got an A from Wayne & cross-referenced info from multiple students, I can say with confidence that Wayne ain't got all that for research. It'd be the same legwork at any other school - it just has a lotta docs affiliated with Wayne. But those docs don't seem genuinely enthusiastic abt it

Above all, support from the actual admin/classmates is HUGE imo - Wayne AINT the place for that. Of all the schools I got an A from, Wayne had the most tell-tale signs of bad admin - everything from scolding a request for help with financial aid to lacking personability with most students when I was on an in-person visit

I will say that my thoughts above are based on comparing my experience with Wayne to the pros/cons you've listed for Quinnipiac. I've always liked Quinnipiac but didn't get an II or A to then dig more into the actual school

About match lists, keep in mind Wayne has 50% of grads in Michigan - yes, some or arguably most wanna stay in Michigan but Ik that isn't the case for everyone who matched into Michigan. I'd imagine you'd wanna break outta that shell and match to a different state

 

[BenzeneToluene]

Quinnipiac no question for me. Notice how schools like Carle and Quinnipiac with no affiliated academic centers can do multiple away rotations. If a school has an affiliated academic hospital, it can only allow for 1 away per student. So no wonder the Carle & Quinnipiac match lists are bonkers. On the same vein, I wouldn't worry abt research. Idk about CMU but I'll go with it having few research opps based on your list. And not sure about Quinnipiac either tbh but having got an A from Wayne & cross-referenced info from multiple students, I can say with confidence that Wayne ain't got all that for research. It'd be the same legwork at any other school - it just has a lotta docs affiliated with Wayne. But those docs don't seem genuinely enthusiastic abt it

Above all, support from the actual admin/classmates is HUGE imo - Wayne AINT the place for that. Of all the schools I got an A from, Wayne had the most tell-tale signs of bad admin - everything from scolding a request for help with financial aid to lacking personability with most students when I was on an in-person visit

I will say that my thoughts above are based on comparing my experience with Wayne to the pros/cons you've listed for Quinnipiac. I've always liked Quinnipiac but didn't get an II or A to then dig more into the actual school

About match lists, keep in mind Wayne has 50% of grads in Michigan - yes, some or arguably most wanna stay in Michigan but Ik that isn't the case for everyone who matched into Michigan. I'd imagine you'd wanna break outta that shell and match to a different state

Disclaimer:

Accepted to Wayne, will be attending

Congrats on all of the acceptances and a successful cycle! I just wanted to give my input and play Devil’s Advocate on a couple of these points!

1. I’ve talked to several medical students from all calibers of schools this cycle and one of the overwhelming points I’ve heard stressed is how nice it is to have affiliated academic centers. It makes having “home” programs much more likely, which will be a huge help in finding specialty specific opportunities and forging connections(which are really important in small, competitive specialities where who you know is important). As for Wayne State, there are opportunities built into the post-clerkship phase to do multiple away rotations at other institutions, not just one.

2. Wayne definitely is not a T25/30 academic powerhouse. Research isn’t the central “mission” of either CMU, Quinnipiac, or Wayne. All are pretty service based. However, I’ve talked multiple students at Wayne, and it does not seem like research is particularly hard to find. All students who I’ve talked to were able to find research either through the research elective(most commonly) or by simply reaching out to faculty. I haven’t come across a student who wanted to do research but has struggled to get opportunities. I know CMU also has decent research as well!

3. As for admin, I do gotta agree that Wayne is definitely notorious for not having the best one. But I’ve heard that admin is nice, just unorganized and poor with communication. Getting “Wayne State’d” is definitely a real thing though apparently.

Overall, I think that if your goal is to match into something competitive or to keep as many “doors” open as possible, I would go with Wayne.

 

[Sandman23]

Quinnipiac has some residencies - anesthesiology, internal med, diagnostic rad & gen surgery; reference: Graduate Medical Education for Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine

Wayne def has the upside on home residencies. Imo match list is the ultimate outcome and when Quinnipiac is matching everything from derm to plastics to diagnostic rad, they solid. It's not the specialties they match in that would make the difference for me but where they match - several matches at Beth Israel, Mass Gen, NYU (especially!), Yale and UConn

Keep in mind that proportions gotta be even. WSU has 300 students, Quinnipiac has 95

 

[m1redsox]

Quinnipiac no question for me. Notice how schools like Carle and Quinnipiac with no affiliated academic centers can do multiple away rotations. If a school has an affiliated academic hospital, it can only allow for 1 away per student. So no wonder the Carle & Quinnipiac match lists are bonkers. On the same vein, I wouldn't worry abt research. Idk about CMU but I'll go with it having few research opps based on your list. And not sure about Quinnipiac either tbh but having got an A from Wayne & cross-referenced info from multiple students, I can say with confidence that Wayne ain't got all that for research. It'd be the same legwork at any other school - it just has a lotta docs affiliated with Wayne. But those docs don't seem genuinely enthusiastic abt it

Above all, support from the actual admin/classmates is HUGE imo - Wayne AINT the place for that. Of all the schools I got an A from, Wayne had the most tell-tale signs of bad admin - everything from scolding a request for help with financial aid to lacking personability with most students when I was on an in-person visit

I will say that my thoughts above are based on comparing my experience with Wayne to the pros/cons you've listed for Quinnipiac. I've always liked Quinnipiac but didn't get an II or A to then dig more into the actual school

About match lists, keep in mind Wayne has 50% of grads in Michigan - yes, some or arguably most wanna stay in Michigan but Ik that isn't the case for everyone who matched into Michigan. I'd imagine you'd wanna break outta that shell and match to a different state

I basically disagree with every point in this post other than the fact that Wayne St’s admin has a questionable/negative reputation.

1. Wayne St may not have amazing research, but it certainly has more than CMU or QU.

2. Medical schools create their own policies on how many aways students can do, but there is absolutely no policy limiting students with an affiliated hospital to one away rotation. My USMD school has an affiliated hospital, and I did 3 aways. There was a maximum of 6 that you could fit in your schedule while still fulfilling all other graduation requirements. While I don’t know Wayne St’s policy, I doubt they limit their students to 1 away rotation. Additionally, if more aways made the best match lists, then DO schools would have the best match lists because DOs applying surgical specialties routinely do like 8 aways. One of my buddies who went to ACOM did 11 derm aways.

3. Do NOT over analyze match lists. With regional and program-specific signaling, depending on your specialty and your competitiveness for your specialty, you can match anywhere you want. Given that Wayne St is a public school in MI, it is absolutely no surprise that 50+% stayed there. Look at any public school’s match list. All are about the same. Additionally, match lists are incredibly variable and obviously dependent on the student’s preference of specialty, location, training environment, etc. For example, the two smartest kids in my class (270+ step, AOA, honored all rotations) ranked small name neurology and family medicine programs over Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, etc. The one who matched neurology cited that the small name neurology program was more outpatient-heavy and taught the residents to read EMGs whereas Mass Gen was almost 100% inpatient and left EMG reading to the fellows. There really is so much more to a match list than you think. Additionally, I will point out that Quinnipiac is in Connecticut, so matching in CT, MA, NY is likely matching the students’ region of preference, whereas Wayne St is more midwest heavy for the same reason. In the day of virtual interviews, applicants rank places they are familiar with or where they are comfortable. You would be surprised how many people choose to stay in the region of their medical school, even if they aren't from there. I was shocked how many of my classmates *chose* to stay in the south (where we did med school) even if they were from CA, NY, MN, etc. So, with that reasoning in mind, QU might match more (percentage-wise) to Mass Gen, BIDMC, and NYU, but Wayne St matches more frequently to UMich, Mayo, and Northwestern. Not because their best applicants couldn't match in the Northeast, rather they prefer the midwest. You just never know with match lists and should only take them with a grain of salt when choosing schools.

 

[cytomegalovirus123]

Quinnipiac no question for me. Notice how schools like Carle and Quinnipiac with no affiliated academic centers can do multiple away rotations. If a school has an affiliated academic hospital, it can only allow for 1 away per student. So no wonder the Carle & Quinnipiac match lists are bonkers. On the same vein, I wouldn't worry abt research. Idk about CMU but I'll go with it having few research opps based on your list. And not sure about Quinnipiac either tbh but having got an A from Wayne & cross-referenced info from multiple students, I can say with confidence that Wayne ain't got all that for research. It'd be the same legwork at any other school - it just has a lotta docs affiliated with Wayne. But those docs don't seem genuinely enthusiastic abt it

Above all, support from the actual admin/classmates is HUGE imo - Wayne AINT the place for that. Of all the schools I got an A from, Wayne had the most tell-tale signs of bad admin - everything from scolding a request for help with financial aid to lacking personability with most students when I was on an in-person visit

I will say that my thoughts above are based on comparing my experience with Wayne to the pros/cons you've listed for Quinnipiac. I've always liked Quinnipiac but didn't get an II or A to then dig more into the actual school

About match lists, keep in mind Wayne has 50% of grads in Michigan - yes, some or arguably most wanna stay in Michigan but Ik that isn't the case for everyone who matched into Michigan. I'd imagine you'd wanna break outta that shell and match to a different state

+ and in the past they have been at risk of losing accreditation within their programs and they have lost affiliations with hospitals like Henry ford who moved on to partner with schools like Michigan State