Podiatry compensation is laughable. We go through 4 years of post graduate education to then do 3 years of residency… FOR WHAT? To make the same or less then a PA with only 2 years of post graduate education. This is not to overlook the value of PA/NP. It’s a needed and great profession. However until we start to stand up for ourselves and get some lobbyist (like the nursing community has) our value will never go up. Okay we are replaceable? Let ID handle the Diabetic foot ulcer, let vascular handle the gangrenous digits, and ortho handle the foot fractures and compartment syndrome. LET ME TELL YOU they don’t want to do it. So why do we let them abuse our profession. NO OTHER PROFESSION would be okay with this. I have witnessed excellent podiatrst doing TAR and recons but getting valued like a nail nipper. Let me tell you the flooor would never consult the pulmonologist for a patient complaining of a cough so how dare they consult a podiatrist and get mad if we don’t trim their nails….this is a hospital!!!!! We have to demand better. Gone are the days where we just chippped and clip. Our training (some more then others) are adequate but we are treated and compensated poorly. It’s time for a change! When will we stop taking free call at the hospitals…cardio isn’t doing that. When will we stop feeling obligated to rush down and treat the uninsured patient that ortho refuses to see, but now we are suddenly adequate enough to care for the trauma because ortho didn’t want it? It’s time our organization starts fighting for us. This is a great profession. I’ve witnessed patients extremely grateful they didn’t let the MD chop their leg off because WE were able to save it. We are physicians. We are great at what we do. BUT it’s time to demand compensation to reflect that. 150k and only qualified to treat the uninsured trauma case is tom foolery ( for lack of better words). How do start fighting back?! The time is now!
We must do better
- Thread starter footdoc24
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Man, Super Tuesday got people like...
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It is saturation, pure and simple.
It's a race to the bottom.
If you won't work a VA for $180k, tons of other DPMs will.
If you won't work PP for $150k + 35%, tons of other DPMs will.
If you won't take q3 call and do committees and be run ragged at a hospital for $220k, tons of other DPMs will.
If you won't go out to a town of 12k people for a decent salary pod job, tons of other DPMs will.
If you won't take free call or market aggressively or throw elbows to attract pts and refers, other DPM competitors in your area will.
"Fighting back" is up to limiting supply of DPMs... and having DPMs being MUCH better trained on average.
^Since you're probably not in charge of that directly, I'd $uggest you not $upport those who do the opposite (try for more DPMs and watering down already sketchy DPM avg level of residency training).
...Right now, there are more DPMs than there are nearly any MD/DO specialty types.
The only "specialties" that have more docs in practice than Pod are IM, Family Med, Peds, OB, ER, Anesth... which are not specialties.
We podiatrists are nearly eclipsing ortho (all specialties), radio, and gen surg; we will pass them as newer pod schools expand class sizes.
Pods are helpful... but limited scope and should be much more limited in numbers than they are.
If our numbers were more in line with Uro or ENT, the compensation and plethora of other issues would largely solve themselves.
There is not demand for more DPMs than orthos, gen surgeons, radiologists. No way in the world.
Until we realize this, our income compensation is limited... and we'll have all of the other sad problems saturation brings also (limited job locations choices, infighting, cheezy marketing, fraud, terrible ROI on degree, trouble attracting good students, etc etc).
It's a race to the bottom.
If you won't work a VA for $180k, tons of other DPMs will.
If you won't work PP for $150k + 35%, tons of other DPMs will.
If you won't take q3 call and do committees and be run ragged at a hospital for $220k, tons of other DPMs will.
If you won't go out to a town of 12k people for a decent salary pod job, tons of other DPMs will.
If you won't take free call or market aggressively or throw elbows to attract pts and refers, other DPM competitors in your area will.
"Fighting back" is up to limiting supply of DPMs... and having DPMs being MUCH better trained on average.
^Since you're probably not in charge of that directly, I'd $uggest you not $upport those who do the opposite (try for more DPMs and watering down already sketchy DPM avg level of residency training).
...Right now, there are more DPMs than there are nearly any MD/DO specialty types.
The only "specialties" that have more docs in practice than Pod are IM, Family Med, Peds, OB, ER, Anesth... which are not specialties.
We podiatrists are nearly eclipsing ortho (all specialties), radio, and gen surg; we will pass them as newer pod schools expand class sizes.
Pods are helpful... but limited scope and should be much more limited in numbers than they are.
If our numbers were more in line with Uro or ENT, the compensation and plethora of other issues would largely solve themselves.
There is not demand for more DPMs than orthos, gen surgeons, radiologists. No way in the world.
Until we realize this, our income compensation is limited... and we'll have all of the other sad problems saturation brings also (limited job locations choices, infighting, cheezy marketing, fraud, terrible ROI on degree, trouble attracting good students, etc etc).
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podourology
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My phone has a little red button I click when employers mention sub 175K salaries. Do you want me to send you the app for iphone? Why do you think you are in that position?
SubungualDebris
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You want to know how to start fighting back? It's simple.
1. Close Podiatry schools and raise standards of admission. No reason to be graduating 600 DPMs on a yearly basis. We are oversaturated and heading down the path of Pharmacy.
2. Shut down inept podiatry residencies, standardize training across the board. Some of the crap I see podiatrist who are BOARD certified post on instagram is beyond cringeworthy. I'm talking airballed syndesmosis screws, the screw being completely posterior to the Tibia. It's that bad.
Our "leaders" have failed and us don't care. They've made it in this profession. They are aware of these facts and yet do nothing to combat the issues facing our field. We aren't a unified profession like RNs are. Older pods eat the younger generation pods and spit them back out because of over-saturation in our field. They do it because they can. There is always going to be another schmuck willing to accept 120k + 25% over 500K collections (exaggerating but you get the point) because there are so many of us in the labor force. Supply and demand.
I'm my own boss first year out of residency and I would never turn back. I am one of the lucky few. I will never work for a Podiatrist and neither should you.
1. Close Podiatry schools and raise standards of admission. No reason to be graduating 600 DPMs on a yearly basis. We are oversaturated and heading down the path of Pharmacy.
2. Shut down inept podiatry residencies, standardize training across the board. Some of the crap I see podiatrist who are BOARD certified post on instagram is beyond cringeworthy. I'm talking airballed syndesmosis screws, the screw being completely posterior to the Tibia. It's that bad.
Our "leaders" have failed and us don't care. They've made it in this profession. They are aware of these facts and yet do nothing to combat the issues facing our field. We aren't a unified profession like RNs are. Older pods eat the younger generation pods and spit them back out because of over-saturation in our field. They do it because they can. There is always going to be another schmuck willing to accept 120k + 25% over 500K collections (exaggerating but you get the point) because there are so many of us in the labor force. Supply and demand.
I'm my own boss first year out of residency and I would never turn back. I am one of the lucky few. I will never work for a Podiatrist and neither should you.
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Hybrocure
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I’ve literally never seen compartment syndrome.
I think leadership spends too much time fighting ortho stuff when they should be fighting for just basic call compensation for limb salvage. Because that’s where medicine really needs us. Any proper hospital that has inpatients needing actual “urgent”ankle fracture surgery is likely already geared with on call ortho trauma to deal with it. Most other EDs just close reduce and send for an outpatient appointment at the local ortho group. These level 1 trauma centers also often deal with polytrauma situations. Why consult a podiatrist to fix their ankle when they already have a femur or a pelvis fracture from that car accident and they’re already getting wheeled to surgery with the trauma ortho? Gen surg, ortho and vasc don’t want to do a midnight tma. Too many pods are out there scrubbing those 2am amps because they think they need to for free call coverage because they think they won’t have hospital privileges if they don’t.
Leadership needs to step up and let these hospitals know we need to be compensated for the stuff they actually need us for rather than fighting ortho for stuff that they already do.
It’s time we start treating the pus bus more like the money train.
I think leadership spends too much time fighting ortho stuff when they should be fighting for just basic call compensation for limb salvage. Because that’s where medicine really needs us. Any proper hospital that has inpatients needing actual “urgent”ankle fracture surgery is likely already geared with on call ortho trauma to deal with it. Most other EDs just close reduce and send for an outpatient appointment at the local ortho group. These level 1 trauma centers also often deal with polytrauma situations. Why consult a podiatrist to fix their ankle when they already have a femur or a pelvis fracture from that car accident and they’re already getting wheeled to surgery with the trauma ortho? Gen surg, ortho and vasc don’t want to do a midnight tma. Too many pods are out there scrubbing those 2am amps because they think they need to for free call coverage because they think they won’t have hospital privileges if they don’t.
Leadership needs to step up and let these hospitals know we need to be compensated for the stuff they actually need us for rather than fighting ortho for stuff that they already do.
It’s time we start treating the pus bus more like the money train.
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Hybrocure
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That’s because that is attractive for a new grad
Bored Snorlax
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Let's make it simple and exciting, all future conferences should be in DC (sorry @Adam Smasher).
We'll head straight to the White House and make things happen.
We'll head straight to the White House and make things happen.
It really just starts with the schools. Let’s say the national cap goes from 500-600 to 200 a class. When those classes start going into residency naturally the strong residencies will stay and fill their PGY years. 10 years from now the bad/weak residencies will not fill the spots up and lose funding and dissolve by themselves. Problem solved.
But hey let’s open up more schools.
But hey let’s open up more schools.
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Ha judging the title of this thread before opening made me think a mustache pod came on here to troll us 'to do better.'
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In order to do better, we need better lobbying power. To get that power, we need greater numbers.
We need more schools.
We need more schools.
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This is the same thread, written in every thread, written in every response.
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150k is a solid offer. I saw 2 of those in terrible locations, rural crime ridden areas. If you can get that in a decent metro I’d take it. (If you want to live in a metro).
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What's the inspiration for this thread today?
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A fired up 4th year student who found out they've matched.
Honestly, I feel like a fool for not opening up my own practice. I have been working for my current employer for a number of years, and every year we have a few new grads that come into the area. It seems like it has been increasing with time. They all come in guns blazing, stating they have the greatest and latest ways of treating all sorts of pathology.
I think the best solution is we all should be opening our own practices, this will only get worse. The best case scenario is we can start hiring some of these new grads for 100-120k once the saturation gets really out of hand. It's possible that the job market might get so bleak, we can hire for starting salaries sub 80-100k, depending on how bad the saturation gets regionally. Looking at my practice owner now, he truly is set up for life. He could not work another day clinically and be fine. He only works 2 days a week as it is, and I know there is a good delta between what the associates bring in and his overhead.
I think in a few years of having 600+ DPMs pumped into the market, we will all regret not having our own practice to hire these people. I agree that saturation can hurt us, but it can also benefit those who are willing to exploit the next generation. The real question can I sleep at night doing this ? The answer is maybe...
Thank you
I think the best solution is we all should be opening our own practices, this will only get worse. The best case scenario is we can start hiring some of these new grads for 100-120k once the saturation gets really out of hand. It's possible that the job market might get so bleak, we can hire for starting salaries sub 80-100k, depending on how bad the saturation gets regionally. Looking at my practice owner now, he truly is set up for life. He could not work another day clinically and be fine. He only works 2 days a week as it is, and I know there is a good delta between what the associates bring in and his overhead.
I think in a few years of having 600+ DPMs pumped into the market, we will all regret not having our own practice to hire these people. I agree that saturation can hurt us, but it can also benefit those who are willing to exploit the next generation. The real question can I sleep at night doing this ? The answer is maybe...
Thank you
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We should start a job match for pgy-3s...
They can do Zoom interviews, rank and be ranked...
match into jobs and fellowships?
Once podiatry job match starts, the podiatry residency match will be looking like a walk in the park.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like you believe that all jobs and salaries are dictated by a single governing body. Then that if our professions leaders confront this singular body to demand higher salaries, all jobs across the nation will magically go up. This is not the case. Although you could probably argue that something needs to be done about corrupt insurance companies but that is across all of medicine and not just us.
One truth has been mentioned above and in most threads on here about saturation.
Another very real truth is going to set off a firestorm after me. Debated making a nasty post about it but decided against because I realized that a lot of the pro ABFAS guys just have a different point of view based off of their experiences and that is why they think the way they do. After conversing with a few of them they are quite friendly and helpful so I never went through with my post since it could have been seen as an attack.
Here it is. Separate all podiatrist jobs into 2 categories. ABFAS jobs (jobs requiring ABFAS) versus ABPM jobs (jobs that will take either ABFAS or ABPM). There is no 3rd category that only accepts ABPM. ABPM does not believe in disqualifying doctors based on board status. Once you have separated the jobs compare the salaries and you will see that the ABPM category has significantly higher salaries. Despite this, all 600 graduating students are brainwashed into thinking ABFAS is the superior board. Many ABFAS employers are actively trying to take advantage of desperate graduates need for case numbers to screw them over. Now this is based on my anecdotal findings. But try it out and see for yourself.
There are very few pro ABPM guys out there. Me being one of them.
One truth has been mentioned above and in most threads on here about saturation.
Another very real truth is going to set off a firestorm after me. Debated making a nasty post about it but decided against because I realized that a lot of the pro ABFAS guys just have a different point of view based off of their experiences and that is why they think the way they do. After conversing with a few of them they are quite friendly and helpful so I never went through with my post since it could have been seen as an attack.
Here it is. Separate all podiatrist jobs into 2 categories. ABFAS jobs (jobs requiring ABFAS) versus ABPM jobs (jobs that will take either ABFAS or ABPM). There is no 3rd category that only accepts ABPM. ABPM does not believe in disqualifying doctors based on board status. Once you have separated the jobs compare the salaries and you will see that the ABPM category has significantly higher salaries. Despite this, all 600 graduating students are brainwashed into thinking ABFAS is the superior board. Many ABFAS employers are actively trying to take advantage of desperate graduates need for case numbers to screw them over. Now this is based on my anecdotal findings. But try it out and see for yourself.
There are very few pro ABPM guys out there. Me being one of them.
Retrograde_Nail
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SATURATION
It's hurts us in training, private practice and even for hospital employed podiatrists who are too afraid to stick up for themselves for fear of losing that great job which can be filled in 1 minute once the hospitals post for a new podiatry position.
Our leaders have failed us. They are secret ortho lovers/admirers. They talk a huge game on the lecture circuit but when they go back to their ortho groups and hospitals they pretend they are one of the boys and bash podiatry to try and fit in. They also don't want to rock the boat because that could compromise their own position and money.
Podiatry made much bigger strides as a profession back in the 80s/90s/00s when they were fighting for equality and were just private practitioners/owners.
It's hurts us in training, private practice and even for hospital employed podiatrists who are too afraid to stick up for themselves for fear of losing that great job which can be filled in 1 minute once the hospitals post for a new podiatry position.
Our leaders have failed us. They are secret ortho lovers/admirers. They talk a huge game on the lecture circuit but when they go back to their ortho groups and hospitals they pretend they are one of the boys and bash podiatry to try and fit in. They also don't want to rock the boat because that could compromise their own position and money.
Podiatry made much bigger strides as a profession back in the 80s/90s/00s when they were fighting for equality and were just private practitioners/owners.
Hybrocure
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100%. And those few who do fight ortho also do all they can to box out other podiatrists at their hospitals. They’re just as bad.
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Firstly,
If you're considering podiatry school. Don't do it.
If you're already a podiatry student and not beyond 2nd year. Consider cutting your losses now.
Yes. Saturation is going to have its way with the profession and you most definitely don't want to be a part of that as a newcomer.
It seems the course has already been set.
Several young PP owners may find that they are entering the "peak earning years" of their life only to also find that they're looking at a half full schedule. It's not fun when you are young, healthy, educated in you're speciality and hungry to work. But, unsurprisingly, theres not enough meat on the table.
I just can't believe any leader with a conscience would push to open additional schools. Is there no proper separation of power among the governing bodies? The only way I see it is the leaders are opening more schools to blatantly take advantage of new kids with federal loan capabilities.
Other specialities have no problem putting moratoriums in place for however long needed to maintain proper concentration of the profession.
But again, podiatry isn't like any other specialty. We must eat our young & only look out for ourselves.
If you're considering podiatry school. Don't do it.
If you're already a podiatry student and not beyond 2nd year. Consider cutting your losses now.
Yes. Saturation is going to have its way with the profession and you most definitely don't want to be a part of that as a newcomer.
It seems the course has already been set.
Several young PP owners may find that they are entering the "peak earning years" of their life only to also find that they're looking at a half full schedule. It's not fun when you are young, healthy, educated in you're speciality and hungry to work. But, unsurprisingly, theres not enough meat on the table.
I just can't believe any leader with a conscience would push to open additional schools. Is there no proper separation of power among the governing bodies? The only way I see it is the leaders are opening more schools to blatantly take advantage of new kids with federal loan capabilities.
Other specialities have no problem putting moratoriums in place for however long needed to maintain proper concentration of the profession.
But again, podiatry isn't like any other specialty. We must eat our young & only look out for ourselves.
Thanks for all of your replies! I guess for some of us we will agree to disagree. It appears that saturation does seem to be a problem so it’s crazy they would open up new schools without closing down a few others( and we all know which ones need to be closed). I personally find issue with the “if you don’t do it someone else will” notion. My argument is MD/DO’s aren’t like that. NP/PA profession etc isn’t like that so why are we settling with that? It’s sad that people on here are thinking 180K is a great opportunity after 4 years of schoool and 3 years of residency. The profession as a whole should be embarrassed. Other fields wouldn’t have that same mindset and it’s disheartening that podiatry is okay with that. No point in lobbying or demanding better if everyone is okay with the scraps.
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You still sound like a student and not someone who has had to work in this field post residency.
I like what I do and am happy to stay in my lane. I went through a whole phase of super pre-pod-pro-podiatry, then jaded out and got depressed from all the doom and gloom, and am now in the acceptance phase of "We are who we are, just do good by your patients."
There will always be patients, doctors, surgeons who disrespect podiatrists or whatever you want to call yourself. That's life. Get over it. You cannot win over everyone and you never will. Even the most highly respected fields get s*** on daily by other departments or amongst themselves.
The physicians around you who matter are they ones who recognize your skill set and start to realize what you can fix or do for them. They will continue to send you patients.
You admit there is a saturation problem, but do not see the connection of why we cannot afford to ask for bigger salaries.
General ortho is seeing every bone in the body. They can justify their salary because they graduate- as a whole- lesser numbers who can do more for whoever is hiring them when they graduate. We are limited to the foot and ankle- yet purely by a numbers standpoint out number all of ortho graduates yearly.
You also do not realize why we are disrespected as a profession.
Have you seen some of your classmates or coresidents? How other residencies or even attendings take care of things? We are judged as a whole by our weakest link. And there are a lot of weak links. Sometimes those weak links are also are the most vocal and lack any sense of self-awareness. How can any professional take you seriously when they see mismanagement of patients from another podiatrist in your area? It only takes one person to screw everyone.
Bored Snorlax
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This is one of the biggest problems in podiatry and I can only imagine that it will get worse.
eyeeye_captain
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Great post. I'd echo this. For me, I had to cut my teeth doing nursing home care because I refused to work for a predatory PP and during the peak of COVID there weren't many jobs at all. I went through the stages of grief and legitimately hated my life choices that led to me being a "doctor" with a quarter mil debt, driving hours a day, staying in middle-of-nowhere hotels just to get on my hands and knees to trim toenails. That said, I cleared 180k my first full year and I remained hungry. It led me to find my current job working in a rural hospital. My patients LOVE me. The other docs legitimately respect me as a colleague and ask for my advice or even as a surgical assist on amputations. I am very happy with how it's ended up. I've got minimal concern of competition because it's not a very desirable place to live, but it's job security and, again, my patients are effusive in their praise and referrals. It's not for everyone and honestly I feel very lucky to have even ended up doing as well as I am despite the geographic setting.
Also, the postop results that comes through my clinic from some of these rural PP pods is just sad oftentimes. There's a reason most of medicine looks down on us. In my experience I've had to earn their respect with my results because they've only ever known bad pods.
You sound as if you are one of the providers who are responsible for eating their young. Idiots are in every field. You can hear a horror story about every MD/DO, dentist, Nurse etc. That’s a piss poor excuse. I’m acknowledging that after reading the posters messages I’ve LEARNED that saturation is a problem….BUT how about something be done to combat this? Why don’t we take measures to ensure we have quality applicants and quality training and if they aren’t fitting the bill give them the axe etc? All I’m trying to say is others care more about their profession and I don’t see why podiatry doesn’t… but then I read messages like yours and I understand why nothing is being done because we are filled with podiatrist that are content
CleanDryandIntact
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You might want to read more in these forums, especially before you accuse someone of being malicious and “eating their young”. The answers to your questions have been discussed at length from applicants, schools, residency and boards.
The search bar is your friend but I’ll save you the time… money.
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It won't happen. Get over it.
MD schools limit their seats and quality residencies.
For-profit DO schools (LECOM and others) try to increase grad numbers and take USMLE to get their grads into DO or MD residencies (there were not enough good DO programs and DO programs for their grads overall).
MDs (ACGME) took full control the residencies (both allo and osteopath programs), and they're regulated and high quality. That is the quality control. Therefore, the greed is kept in check, and the income and demand is protected... so, result is almost universally good training and ROI and jobs and career.
Pharmacy, podiatry, chiro, OD, counseling PhD, etc don't have those checks and balances. They have oversupplied their need and/or have corrupt regulation "leadership" that benefits from more students, more schools, more tuition, more GME monies, more organization dues. Any time there are more residencies or more student interest for those programs, they will just approve more seats/schools. They are businesses that will take as many students and as many tuition checks as they can get. It has been that way for years. The only stop point for podiatry was lack of interest (when DPMs were mostly nail clippers), and then it was lack of post-grad training and residencies (once DPMs were more "doctors" and more hospital/surgery accepted). They've always accepted nearly any reasonably qualified applicant. Now, they've whipped up some low quality programs early 2000s and could say "everybody gets a 3 year residency." The demand for such "podiatry foot and ankle surgeon" was rapidly exceeded... and gets worse - and more expensive schooling - every year. We've opened four schools in 20 year span.
Those latter grouped 'doctor' professions have - and will continue to have - alllll of the problems that oversaturation and variable training bring (poor overall ROI compared to the debt, low or variable income, limited job choices, high competition, goofy marketing, and many other issues of saturation). Holding out for more money or demanding it doesn't work when thousands of colleagues will take less out of necessity. Patients are unlikely to wait a month for awesome doc A when same specialty doc B will see them this afternoon. That is the race to the bottom that saturation causes. It's economics. You have to know that going in, and then you need to either:
- Accept that podiatry ROI/saturation issue and be ok with it, or...
- Have some ridiculous connection (eg, family money and will be low/no debt... or MD/DPMs in family/circle and virtually guaranteed good residency/jobs/ownership placement after school).
- Hope to be one of the "exceptions" (hospital pharmacist making $150k + benefits, podiatrist FTE hospital or PP owner making $300k to get nearly 1.5:1 or 1:1 ROI, etc). Those are the minority... increasingly rare as saturation gets to tip point - already did for pharma, hopefully soon for podiatry???
...I would add finding a financially competent partner and/or being frugal. That does a lot for security and to help you be fine with your life. Not hyperextending $$ will prevent the temptations for taking jobs just for money, fraud, overbilling, looking at patients like a cash register, always feeling like you are getting a raw deal, etc. Paying on the massive student loans, feeding a family, driving nice cars, or sending a low/no income partner around to malls and vacations is not logical on just the average DPM income and ROI. It might work for a bit, and then it'll be likely to blow up in your face. Welcome to podiatry. Sorry.
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footshazam
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Not going to lie, I agree with you. The vast majority are just so content and complacent and it’s annoying. I was once down about my choice but I’ve gotten off the doom and gloom train I was on a few months ago. Just going to do my thing and move forward. The same things are belabored here over and over and it’s exhausting and tiring.
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He just likes to party, so what. Not a ***** like some of my peers. Age is just a number. Um above a legal defined age that is.
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Same. Rural podiatry is it's own little fantasy dream world. Patients LOVE me. They love that there is a full time foot doctor just down the street. They love not having to drive 45+ minutes to another podiatrist. Other providers respect me as a colleague and also love the higher quality of care their patients are receiving. They are still learning what I can do and are shocked at the amount of treatments I can offer. Rural ortho just sent me a bimal I am fixing on Tuesday. Rural gen surg loves me because I do all the inpatient amps and I&Ds (which are incredibly easy and good RVUs)
In my first year out I'm going to clear $260,000. I have a nice house with a hefty savings account now. I am able to fully support my wife and kids. I started a high yield savings account and started investing which I have never been able to do before. All before I turn 30.
I'm going to stay in my little rural podiatry dream world as long as possible. A place where I am respected, get paid well, and practice full scope of podiatry
JustAPedicurist
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I’m coming out of residency signed a $215,000 contract with potential to bonus. Think realistically I can hit 250 the first year and possibly more going forward. Wish it was more. But that’s where I’m starting. Feel blessed compared to what I hear from others. I think key is to move rural. if you want to practice in a major city you’re screwed.
Which just proves the point that SATURATION is the key issue as mentioned above.
Also agree that we should ride the pus bus and stop pretending to be ortho.
Here’s a pic of where I’ll be living! (Just kidding
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Which just proves the point that SATURATION is the key issue as mentioned above.
Also agree that we should ride the pus bus and stop pretending to be ortho.
Here’s a pic of where I’ll be living! (Just kidding
)Attachments
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Have fun saving lives while I sleep.
I’m coming out of residency signed a $215,000 contract with potential to bonus. Think realistically I can hit 250 the first year and possibly more going forward. Wish it was more. But that’s where I’m starting. Feel blessed compared to what I hear from others. I think key is to move rural. if you want to practice in a major city you’re screwed.
Which just proves the point that SATURATION is the key issue as mentioned above.
Also agree that we should ride the pus bus and stop pretending to be ortho.
Here’s a pic of where I’ll be living! (Just kidding
That's an incredible offer starting out of residency. You hit the lottery, congratulations.
Thank you! Good to know I’m not the only one. Seems like people are not just content but happy about that 150k offer after 3 years of residency. BLOWS my mind that we as a profession aren’t demanding better or at least a change. (Don’t model the curriculum around a medical pathway etc if it’s not gonna be paid as such. IDK I don’t have any answers, but it’s truly a shame so many are okay with where this profession is). I think a lot of podiatrist come out of residency with great training and should be compensated and treated as such (which does not mean we want to be ortho) but we have a lane that should be valued but it is what it is... I wish everyone the best of luck with their careers!
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Numerous ppl have told you:
Podiatry would be valued and recruited with 8k or 10k licensed and well-trained docs. It's not valued with 20k of them... with wildly variable training. That is plain to see.
Likewise, Uro or ENT are highly valuable with 8k or 10k of each... yet they wouldn't be with 20k of each of them (but MDs aren't stupid enough to allow that to happen).
It's the same logic even with Amazon pkg delivery drivers... if that took a $100k car or PhD, they'd be paid a ton more. If there were 500,000 guys would could play NBA level bball and not just 500 or so, they'd make a whole lot less. Simple supply/demand.
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ReaganomicsLamborghini
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This is what makes podiatry extra stupid. 4 years of school and 3 years of residency. Physician length training without the physician salary/job opportunities/prestige. Podiatry needs to give up on being wannabe MD. The inferiority complex needs to go away. We do not have to be like MDs, we do not need 7 years of training to focus on the foot and ankle. It’s a waste of time. If it takes 7 years to train a podiatrist then podiatry shouldn’t exist. Medicine has its model of broad curriculum and residency because they can branch out into so many specialities. Podiatry is nothing like that. Dentistry, PA, NP, etc. are far better alternatives especially considering that people DO have lives outside their career. Why does podiatry want to be medicine so bad? Maybe being a real physician is “prestigious” but so what? Podiatry’s attempt to look more like real doctors is a facade anyway, 3 year residency maybe looks good on paper but we all know the variability of podiatry training. 7 years of junk training is a long time but its still junk. Shorter length of high quality training would be far more valuable.
Hybrocure
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Looking back to how hard I stressed myself over the brachial plexus and cranial nerves to now remembering absolute zero about any of that makes me cringe every time.
I still google everything above the knee.
Histo knowledge has been erased from my brain storage. So has biochemistry. Path and micro was useful. It’s probably the only non pod thing I remember.
physio? Get lost. I couldn’t tell you an equation now if you pointed a gun to my head
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Ancillary Modalities For The Office: Why you should incorporate this in today’s economic climate
In-office laser and shockwave therapy, in-office magnetic resonance imaging, in-office vascular testing, the stocking of wound care supplies and other modalities can add value to your podiatry practice. In this article we will cover insights on what can give you the best return on investment and how to implement these ancillary modalities in the office.
Given the tough economic climate that we are currently living in, and the changing nature of healthcare, podiatric physicians are now turning to additional means of treating patients, while generating additional business revenue for their practices. Ancillary services such as diagnostic vascular and nerve testing, cosmetic treatments, and physical therapy, as well as the in-office dispensing of foot care products and footwear are just a few examples of increasing office revenue to contend with these challenging times. In these tough times, setting up a more technologically driven practice that is geared towards patient satisfaction, patient comfort and the extension of conservative treatments is extremely important and will drive more quality patients through your office doors. Savvy podiatrists are also training and involving their staff in these new ventures as well as marketing the new services and items which are available for consumption in their practices through social media and their referral sources.
Although some ancillary services are relatively easy to adopt, others are expensive and require substantial financial outlays. Even the more expensive, time-consuming services can be highly lucrative over time if you still have several years of practice ahead and if you have a group of doctors who work with the same blueprint of practice protocols.
So often I hear colleagues saying that they do not want to be a salesman in their practice. I hear “I’m not doing that, I don’t want to sell, I’m a doctor”. From a business management approach, as the physician, you also must invest in the health of your practice. I learned a long time ago that anything that you do to improve your practice is an investment. Like anything else, you invest in something that you expect a return on.
When I first started my practice and I leaned solely on insurance reimbursement, I realized very quickly that I would not be able to survive and have a comfortable stream of income without incorporating ancillary services. I too, did not want to be a salesperson. Once I realized that the services and products that I was offering were purely for the benefit of the patient and improving their outcome, the process became much simpler. The idea of “selling” was no longer an issue. My first piece of capital equipment was a shockwave machine.
In office dispensing of products will not only make your patient’s lives easier but it will also improve their outcomes and increase their compliance. Since utilizing in-office dispensing, I have noticed much improved patient compliance. For example, in the past, I would prescribe a topical prescription anti-fungal to a patient for treatment of mycotic nails, have the patient back in a few months to evaluate if there was any noticeable improvement, only to find out that the patient didn’t fill the prescription due to expense. Likewise, I’d recommend digital pads to protect a painful hammertoe, and the patient would return with poor quality ones, or none at all, offering excuses such as forgetting to buy them or being too busy to get them.
Since then, I have invested in multiple capital equipment such an MLS laser machine, Swift therapy for plantar warts, shockwave treatment, Onyfix ingrown toenail management solution, an ABI machine as well as a nail laser machine. This equipment has fantastic financing options, often times with no payments for the first six months so that you have a steady business flow. I have found that these purchases have had a great return on investment. Often, I’m asked which of these are the most successful in my practice. I cannot personally answer that question as they all have separate indications for use. The biggest pearl is building a protocol and getting yourself comfortable in discussing these treatment options with the patient.
My approach with the patient is that “my job as your physician is to tell you what treatment is best for you and will give you the quickest and most long-term result without much downtime in order to get you back to your normal life. My job is not to solely tell you what insurance covers for you.” Once you have stated the benefit and the science of the service to the patient, they will make the more appropriate decision that will get them better and not solely base their decision on what their insurance covers.
In Conclusion
I always recommend starting small in providing services, adding one service or item at a time. Heavily involving staff in harnessing their contributions to improved care for the patients is of utmost importance. I always have my staff try the products. They all wear our medical upgrade insoles daily and have custom orthotics that they wear on a regular basis so that they can discuss these treatments in great detail through their own personal experience. Obviously, having a fully educated staff on what one is trying to do and why, with improved outcomes as the objective, goes a long way. Also, always, and without exception, when adding an in-office dispensing program, I believe one must stand one hundred percent behind whatever product is provided to a patient. Having regular meetings to educate staff on in office services and products will increase their comfort level and confidence in discussing such treatments and services with your patients and ultimately increase your patient satisfaction as well as your business bottom line.
Your message to the patient must be to “invest in your foot health”, then the patient looks at the purchase as an investment and not a purchase.
Hybrocure
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lol in office MRI
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How does that work? I spoke with a group with in office MRI. Didn’t go with them but they were the only pod group with an in office MRI that I know of.
Hybrocure
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Your guess is as good as mine. Between equipment cost, staff, ability to sedate and someone to read and/or pay for a radiologist read that is outside my wheelhouse. I don’t known how that works in private practice. To dedicate that amount of work for a foot is nuts without some sort of billing wizardry
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Gen surg was confused why our training is 3 years. “1 year for the left foot, 1 year for the right foot, what’s the last year for?”
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I haven't seen anyone say they're content or happy about the oversaturation. That's the whole point of these posts is illuminating the rot that no one notices prior to PGY2 when they start the job search. I don't have time or desire to join pod leadership and make the change from there. A decent strategy is to make the problem known to prepods and students which will help them avoid the problem, but also potentially decrease the oversaturation to some degree.
As a parallel, it's the political season. If you really think the 2 most qualified Americans to run this country are Trump or Biden then I don't know what to tell you. Fact is, the most qualified candidates are too busy, and don't want to deal with the BS that goes with it. So we continue to get leadership (from both sides) making horrible choices that we can all see is ruining a good thing.
myfeetrkillingme
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Well said! Podiatrist should also make use of physician extenders in order to work efficiently, therefore having the ability to increase their income.
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The way things are, physician extenders (PA/NP) don't make sense for most of us.
I want to see something like a "Bachelor's of Chiropody" as a podiatric extender, someone who could trim nails and do XR and pad out hammertoes and do the lobster work. Like a dental hygienist but for the foot. The whole doctorate + residency model has left us with an army of really overtrained people relative to the demand for podiatry services.
