We now have a total of 60 new EM residency programs

[alpinism]

For everyone who still believes the EM job market won't be completely saturated within the next few years.

Medical students take note because there likely won't be any good jobs left by the time you graduate residency.


1. Kendall Regional Medical Center - Miami, Florida
2. UM Jackson Memorial Hospital - Miami, Florida
3. FIU Adventura Hospital - Adventura, Florida
4. FAU Delray Medical Center - Delray, Florida
5. Northwest Medical Center - Margate, Florida
6. Ocala Regional Medical Center - Ocala, Florida
7. Osceola Regional Medical Center - Kissimmee, Florida
8. North Florida Regional Medical Center - Gainesville, Florida
9. Orange Park Medical Center - Orange Park, Florida
10. Sarasota Memorial Hospital - Sarasota, Florida
11. Oak Hill Hospital - Brooksville, Florida
12. Lakland Medical Center - Lakeland, Florida
13. Brandon Regional Medical Center - Brandon, Florida
14. Coliseum Health Medical Center - Macon, Georgia
15. Cartersville Medical Center - Cartersville, Georgia
16. Wellstar Kennelstone Hospital - Marietta, Georgia
17. Grand Strand Medical Center - Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
18. Greenville Memorial Hospital - Greenville, South Carolina
19. Trident Medical Center - Charleston, South Carolina
20. Mission Health Medical Center - Asheville, North Carolina
21. UT Nashville Medical Center - Murfreesboro, Tennessee
22. Riverside Regional Medical Center - Newport News, Virginia
23. Lewis Gale Health Medical Center - Salem, Virginia
24. University of South Alabama Hospital - Mobile, Alabama
25. Dothan Regional Medical Center - Dothan, Alabama
26. Oschner Medcial Center - New Orleans, Louisiana
27. Unity Health Medical Center - Searcy, Arkansas
28. BSW All Saints Medical Center - Fort Worth, Texas
29. Medical City Arlington Hospital - Arlington, Texas
30. Texas Tech Medical Center - Lubbock, Texas
31. Kingwood Medical Center - Houston, Texas
32. Las Palmas Medical Center - El Paso, Texas
33. Brookdale Hospital - New York, New York
34. St John Riverside Hospital - Yonkers, New York
35. Orange Regional Medical Center - Middletown, New York
36. Vassar Brothers Medical Center - Poughkeepsie, New York
37. Northwell Southside Hospital - Bayshore, New York
38. Arnot Ogden Medical Center - Elmira, New York
39. Robert Guthrie Medical Center - Sayre, Pennsylvania
40. Einstein Montgomery Hospital - Norristown, Pennsylvania
41. UPMC Pinnacle Hospital - Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
42. Reading Tower Hospital - Reading, Pennsylvania
43. Wyoming Medical Center - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
44. Nazareth Hospital - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
45. Crozer Chester Hospital - Upland, Pennsylvania
46. UVM Medical Center- Burlington, Vermont
47. St Ritas Medical Center - Lima, Ohio
48. St Joseph Hospital - Stockton, California
49. Kaiser Modesto Hospital - Modesto, California
50. Eisenhower Hospital - Rancho Mirage, California
51. Los Robles Medical Center- Thousand Oaks, California
52. Desert Regional Medical Center - Palm Springs, California
53. Riverside Community Medical Center - Riverside, California
54. Temecula Valley Medical Center - Temecula, California
55. St Agnes Medical Center - Fresno, California
56. Abrazo Health Medical Center - Phoenix, Arizona
57. Sunrise Health Mountainview Hospital - Las Vegas, Nevada
58. Valley Health Sumerlin Hospital - Las Vegas, Nevada
59. Loyola Medical Center - Chicago, Illinois
60. Rush Medical Center - Chicago, Illinois

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Also UHS Southern California and Rutgers Health/Community. We have a pandemic going on and the ACGME still manages to approve two new EM residencies in the past month l0l

 

[Angry Birds]

This is nuts

 

[Torsion]

Over what time period have these programs opened? Just a quick perusal of the list and several have been open for years and have already graduated classes.

 

[Fox800]

Thanks HCA.

This is disgusting.

 

[southerndoc]

Cartersville Medical Center is on that list. To my knowledge I don’t think they were approved. I don’t think they even have a PD and as of a few years ago, several of their physicians were FM-trained. I question the validity of the list.

 

[CajunMedic]

Can make it 62:

Magnolia Regional Medical Center; Corinth, Mississippi

MSOPTI/Trinity West; Steubenville, Ohio. They might get off on a technicality because it’s basically a reconstituted OVMC/EORH program. Their accreditation was expedited after the closure and nearly the entire staff, PD/aPD, and faculty all came from OVMC.

 

[Tenk]

Lol cya Florida.

 

[Rekt]

Cartersville Medical Center is on that list. To my knowledge I don’t think they were approved. I don’t think they even have a PD and as of a few years ago, several of their physicians were FM-trained. I question the validity of the list.

The rest are for the most part correct. I was following this very closely as I applied. I'd say maybe 2-4 more of those are in flux, but the rest is legit.

ACEP and AAEM came together against low-level providers/noctors.

Why not this?

Lol cya Florida.

Already many posts from graduating Floridians that they can't find anything. They'll flood the rest of the small amount of spots left across the country. Texas is doing it's part too.

Over what time period have these programs opened? Just a quick perusal of the list and several have been open for years and have already graduated classes.

About 5 years.

 

[namethatsmell]

Cartersville Medical Center is on that list. To my knowledge I don’t think they were approved. I don’t think they even have a PD and as of a few years ago, several of their physicians were FM-trained. I question the validity of the list.

Lets say there's a 1/3 error rate and there's only 40 new programs in the last few years. How many more signs do we all need that it's time to batten down the hatches (in every sense of the phrase)?

Until recently we've always had the leverage of there being a limited supply of us relative to huge demand. Now, in the last few months-years most of us have felt the pain of that brightest light in our favor significantly fade or go out completely.

If one hasn't already, now is the time for every EM doc to get their financial house in order, solidify as decent a gig (or ideally gigs) as possible, and start working on niches/non-EM skills to diversify work options moving forward. Your future self will thank you.

 

[namethatsmell]

ACEP and AAEM came together against low-level providers/noctors.

Why not this?

Because it means more potential members, and thus more due$, for them. Perhaps there's a chance AAEM will speak out against this. Highly unlikely ACEP ever would though given who butters there bread. And the cat is already out of the bag. And even if ACEP/AAEM made a statement would it change anything? You'd probably need ABEM to lean on the ACGME to make any headway against this (and in doing so ABEM would also be working to deny itself more testing money$$$).

The urologists know how to control their numbers. Their training is just a long and arduous enough path to turn most folks away and their leadership is super strong on preventing too many training spots from being made. I get the sense that if HCA approached a urologist and offered him/her a PD spot to start up a residency at HCA Little Sisters of the Poor Health System then other urologists would find that potential HCA PD and cysto him/her to death.

 

[Fox800]

This is going to be the death of EM. Too many fresh-faced new grads hungry for jobs with $300,000 in debt and a spouse/baby, willing to work for $200/hr supervising an army of Jenny McJennyson, FNP-BCs.

SDGs vanishing left and right for the past 10+ years.

In the desirable areas you'll be making $150/hr. Just wait.

I'm about to jump ship and go overseas.

 

[Rekt]

This is going to be the death of EM. Too many fresh-faced new grads hungry for jobs with $300,000 in debt and a spouse/baby, willing to work for $200/hr supervising an army of Jenny McJennyson, FNP-BCs.

SDGs vanishing left and right for the past 10+ years.

In the desirable areas you'll be making $150/hr. Just wait.

I'm about to jump ship and go overseas.

This is already right now.

I expect 160-170/hr non-desirable and ~120 Devner, Portland, SoCal etc.

 

[Fox800]

This is already right now.

I expect 160-170/hr non-coast and ~120 Devner, Portland, SoCal etc.

Oh trust me, I know. Austin is $170-200 per hour. My friend in Chicago makes $190 at a busy trauma center with Cook County malpractice environment looming and the countiest of county hospital patients.

USACS in Colorado was offering $140/hr 2 years ago.

$150/hr is going to be "good money" in desirable places soon.

 

[Hercules]

And even if ACEP/AAEM made a statement would it change anything? You'd probably need ABEM to lean on the ACGME to make any headway against this (and in doing so ABEM would also be working to deny itself more testing money$$$).

You hit the nail on the head here. I’m not sure that it matters if ACEP/AAEM/AMA/CIA disapproves of the number of graduates. They don’t control the process. ABEM would be the organization in the best position to put leverage on the ACGME, but I wouldn’t expect them to for the above reasons.

 

[Fox800]

You hit the nail on the head here. I’m not sure that it matters if ACEP/AAEM/AMA/CIA disapproves of the number of graduates. They don’t control the process. ABEM would be the organization in the best position to put leverage on the ACGME, but I wouldn’t expect them to for the above reasons.

ABEM can't do anything and has no incentive. They've been holding our oral boards hostage since May, with no plan articulated 4 months later. Thus, their imperative is making money. I'm sure they'll charge $1500 to do virtual oral boards via Zoom and fail us if we don't wear a dress shirt and tie in our own living rooms.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Lol HCA we have no one to blame but ourselves to many EM doc want to be “academic” so we face the consequences. It’s short sided blaming this on medstudents.

You don’t see derm doing this when they could easily populate derm residencies and med students are most eager for them.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

To make matters worse, the number of jobs on EDPhysician has already decreased from 986->816 in the past 5 months or so. How much of it is due to COVID vs being slammed by new grads I don’t know. Same with Practicelink, 856->757 total jobs

 

[southerndoc]

@namethatsmell My comment wasn't to suggest there aren't too many new residencies. I think the supply is about to outpace the demand.

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

Others in the Works:
St Lukes Anderson (Easton, PA)
Capital Health (Trenton, NJ - Envision)
Inspira Medical Center (Woodbury, NJ - Team Health)
Community Medical Center (Toms River, NJ - Envision)

 

[RustedFox]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

Ocala regional.
Oak Hill.

These are cow towns.

Ugh.

Don't get me started on the PA ones.

 

[RustedFox]

St. Rita's?!

Lima, Ohio...


Oh. My. God.

 

[JSReed]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

Ocala regional.
Oak Hill.

These are cow towns.

Ugh.

Don't get me started on the PA ones.

Excuse you. Ocala is a *horse* town...

 

[alpinism]

The list includes hospitals that are currently in the process of opening new EM programs.

Envision has been advertising for Cartersville for the past year and according to their website they filled the program director position.

 

[EM Junkie]

Here's the list of the RRC members for Emergency Medicine:

Click here -->

Review Committee Members

www.acgme.org

 

[EMhawkeye]

Aaem and saem need to get on these particular guys to stop this madness

 

[RustedFox]

Excuse you. Ocala is a *horse* town...

Great joke.

But seriously.

Oak Hill?

I interviewed there when I interviewed with every job in a 2 hour radius of Tampa.

I was a graduating senior.

I walked out of that interview and said to myself: "No effing waaaay, duuude."

St. Rita's? In Lima, Ohio?!


I used to drive down there from Toledo to go teach the new medics ACLS.

It's... Super Cow Town.

This is the death knell for EM.

 

[EMhawkeye]

Great joke.

But seriously.

Oak Hill?

I interviewed there when I interviewed with every job in a 2 hour radius of Tampa.

I was a graduating senior.

I walked out of that interview and said to myself: "No effing waaaay, duuude."

St. Rita's? In Lima, Ohio?!


I used to drive down there from Toledo to go teach the new medics ACLS.

It's... Super Cow Town.

This is the death knell for EM.

Not a "new" program. Was a DO em program that transitioned to acgme accred

 

[RustedFox]

Not a "new" program. Was a DO em program that transitioned to acgme accred

Which?

Doesn't matter.


Never had volume or acuity.

 

[boolin_1]

so as an MS4 going into emergency medicine, what can I do to prepare? I was already preparing for a possible ICU fellowship because of midlevel encroachment, but now job saturation

 

[RustedFox]

so as an MS4 going into emergency medicine, what can I do to prepare? I was already preparing for a possible ICU fellowship because of midlevel encroachment, but now job saturation

Go do IM.

 

[FiveIronFrenzy]

Great joke.

But seriously.

Oak Hill?

I interviewed there when I interviewed with every job in a 2 hour radius of Tampa.

I was a graduating senior.

I walked out of that interview and said to myself: "No effing waaaay, duuude."

St. Rita's? In Lima, Ohio?!


I used to drive down there from Toledo to go teach the new medics ACLS.

It's... Super Cow Town.

This is the death knell for EM.

I know people who did moonlighting at St Rita’s as year 3 EM residents as little as 3 years ago.

serious question: if they were so desperate for coverage that recently and couldn’t staff it without hiring residents, who exactly is doing the teaching?!?!

 

[turkeyjerky]

I know people who did moonlighting at St Rita’s as year 3 EM residents as little as 3 years ago.

serious question: if they were so desperate for coverage that recently and couldn’t staff it without hiring residents, who exactly is doing the teaching?!?!

They probably hired a couple of 'residency-trained' midlevels.

 

[RustedFox]

I know people who did moonlighting at St Rita’s as year 3 EM residents as little as 3 years ago.

serious question: if they were so desperate for coverage that recently and couldn’t staff it without hiring residents, who exactly is doing the teaching?!?!

I moon-lit there .

Nobody is teaching anyone. anything. there .

 

[Rekt]

Not a "new" program. Was a DO em program that transitioned to acgme accred

This is false. Oak Hill was never a DO program. Opened the same time as many of the other onslaught of HCA residencies

 

[GeneralVeers]

I read the first two programs and thought that Kendall-Jackson had started an awesome program in Napa!

 

[Apollyon]

I read the first two programs and thought that Kendall-Jackson had started an awesome program in Napa!

Don't "wine" about it!

 

[CajunMedic]

But seriously.

Oak Hill?

They were my first interview last year. Probably the most disorganized interview day I had. On the bright side, they were assembling their new high dollar ultrasound machine in the room where we were having didactics. Didn't like being talked down to by one of the second years. Overall wasn't impressed.

 

[EMhawkeye]

This is false. Oak Hill was never a DO program. Opened the same time as many of the other onslaught of HCA residencies

St rita’s is what i was rederring to

 

[RustedFox]

They were my first interview last year. Probably the most disorganized interview day I had. On the bright side, they were assembling their new high dollar ultrasound machine in the room where we were having didactics. Didn't like being talked down to by one of the second years. Overall wasn't impressed.

Dude. You And I "know each other" on here.

I can't imagine this!!!

It was my "first" interview in 2012. I left that interview and said to myself:

"Okay. Okay. They told you that you would go on interviews... And you would not want to be there."

I walked away.

I shook.

 

[sallyhasanidea]

Go do IM.

Isn't there saturation in IM as well with mid levels taking over primary care and hospitalist positions?

 

[starbuck2]

Yikes. Thanks for the heads up on EM, everyone! I’ll probably go into psych. -M1

 

[wendalltwolf]

Yikes. Thanks for the heads up on EM, everyone! I’ll probably go into psych. -M1

Unfortunately the Psych forum is also talking about NP’s and Social Workers cutting into the pie too. Also now the VA is looking into letting Psychologists prescribe meds...

 

[bravotwozero]

Unfortunately the Psych forum is also talking about NP’s and Social Workers cutting into the pie too. Also now the VA is looking into letting Psychologists prescribe meds...

You guys still have an out. Psychiatrists can always hang up their own shingle, do tele psych, sub specialize in things that have a payoff (child psych), etc.

 

[namethatsmell]

You guys still have an out. Psychiatrists can always hang up their own shingle, do tele psych, sub specialize in things that have a payoff (child psych), etc.

Agreed. The overhead costs for psych to go into pp is as low as it gets. They certainly face challenges from NPs, social workers, psychologists who are all vying for a piece of that pie. But demand for mental health is huge and as long as it's easy for individual psychiatrists to go solo they'll always be able to dodge and weave their way out of crappy employment setups moreso than probably anybody else in the house of medicine.

 

[wamcp]

Isn't there saturation in IM as well with mid levels taking over primary care and hospitalist positions?

i’m a hospitalist (nocturnist). I’m shocked at the pay rates some posters claim for EM in certain areas. Is it really true you might get offered 140/hr somewhere? To do ER work????

I get rates between 200-300/hr for moonlighting in my area for admitting or night shifts.

and half the time i’m sitting on my butt watching tv or playing video games in a quiet call room while my ER buddies are slugging through 2-3 pt per hour downstairs

I don’t envy you guys at all.

i would have thought IM would be a poor choice given thousands of residencies but i suppose since half of all grads do fellowship and a quarter to primary care, it blows off a lot of pressure to keep the hospitalist market stable thus far

 

[CCM-MD]

i’m a hospitalist (nocturnist). I’m shocked at the pay rates some posters claim for EM in certain areas. Is it really true you might get offered 140/hr somewhere? To do ER work????

I get rates between 200-300/hr for moonlighting in my area for admitting or night shifts.

and half the time i’m sitting on my butt watching tv or playing video games in a quiet call room while my ER buddies are slugging through 2-3 pt per hour downstairs

I don’t envy you guys at all.

i would have thought IM would be a poor choice given thousands of residencies but i suppose since half of all grads do fellowship and a quarter to primary care, it blows off a lot of pressure to keep the hospitalist market stable thus far

$300/h for hospitalist is an outlier, not the norm. You frequently post this comparisons of the equivalent of >90th percentile hospitalist to average/low numbers for other specialties. I also believe you posted screenshots of your investment accounts. Kind of weird. Wonder if its an inferiority complex thing if you feel the constant need to post your financial successes on here. Regardless, hospitalist is not "safe" by any means, very saturated in my area, 120-140/h for days is the average.

 

[sallyhasanidea]

i’m a hospitalist (nocturnist). I’m shocked at the pay rates some posters claim for EM in certain areas. Is it really true you might get offered 140/hr somewhere? To do ER work????

I get rates between 200-300/hr for moonlighting in my area for admitting or night shifts.

and half the time i’m sitting on my butt watching tv or playing video games in a quiet call room while my ER buddies are slugging through 2-3 pt per hour downstairs

I don’t envy you guys at all.

i would have thought IM would be a poor choice given thousands of residencies but i suppose since half of all grads do fellowship and a quarter to primary care, it blows off a lot of pressure to keep the hospitalist market stable thus far

Where do you live?

Any suggestions/thoughts on EM vs. IM regarding job market and what are your thoughts on the future of midlevels in IM? Will we see a situation IM where midlevels are hired more, less need for physician oversite, leading to saturation of hospitalist and primary care positions?

 

[sallyhasanidea]

$300/h for hospitalist is an outlier, not the norm. You frequently post this comparisons of the equivalent of >90th percentile hospitalist to average/low numbers for other specialties. I also believe you posted screenshots of your investment accounts. Kind of weird. Wonder if its an inferiority complex thing if you feel the constant need to post your financial successes on here. Regardless, hospitalist is not "safe" by any means, very saturated in my area, 120-140/h for days is the average.

While it's good to point out that $300/h is an outlier, I don't think it was appropriate to say the other poster has an inferiority complex for posting financial successes. Those kinds of posts are important for financial guidance

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Add Plantation Florida to the list.

I’m from Plantation. I’ve been to west side medical center. The idea they could train even 1 EM resident a year is laughable.

They don’t have the volume or the acuity, let alone being like the 7th program in south Florida.

So stoked to graduate into the soon-to-be most over-saturdated market in the US.