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ObamaCare Isn't Inevitable

Americans are increasingly concerned about the cost -- in money and personal freedom -- of the president's nanny-state initiatives.


more in Opinion »


By KARL ROVE

While still good, President Barack Obama's political health is deteriorating, threatened by what he thought would be balm -- his ambitious plan for a government takeover of health care.
Mr. Obama remains slightly more popular than most presidents have been in their opening months. But his job approval rating has drifted down to 60% in the RealClearPolitics.com average. His disapproval numbers have nearly doubled to 33%.
More troubling to Team Obama is the growing gap between the president's approval rating and declining support for major items on his policy agenda. Independents are increasingly joining Republicans in opposition to administration initiatives that range from reviving the economy to closing the terrorist detention facility at Guantanamo.
ED-AJ733A_rove_D_20090624191423.jpg
Chad Crowe


Things will likely get worse in the coming months as the congressional stage comes to be dominated by health care. A new poll by Resurgent Republic (a nonprofit, right-of-center education organization whose creation I helped spur), reveals some of the president's challenges. By a 60%-to-31% margin, Americans prefer getting their health coverage through private insurance rather than the federal government.
Mr. Obama's record-setting spending binge has also made Americans more sensitive to deficits and higher taxes. Thirty-nine percent said they supported "a health-care plan that raises taxes in order to provide health insurance to all Americans," while 52% preferred "a plan that does not provide health insurance to all Americans but keeps taxes at current levels." By a 58%-to-37% margin, American prefer reforming health care "without raising taxes or increasing the deficit" to government investing "new resources to make sure it is done right."
This is why Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus blanched when committee staffers priced his -- which is also the Obama administration's -- draft legislation at a cool $1.6 trillion over the next decade.
The federal government will release an update on the deficit in mid-July, which will likely increase the public's fear of deficit spending. The current fiscal year's $1.8 trillion deficit is likely to grow significantly.
About Karl Rove

Karl Rove served as Senior Advisor to President George W. Bush from 2000–2007 and Deputy Chief of Staff from 2004–2007. At the White House he oversaw the Offices of Strategic Initiatives, Political Affairs, Public Liaison, and Intergovernmental Affairs and was Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy, coordinating the White House policy making process.
Before Karl became known as "The Architect" of President Bush's 2000 and 2004 campaigns, he was president of Karl Rove + Company, an Austin-based public affairs firm that worked for Republican candidates, nonpartisan causes, and nonprofit groups. His clients included over 75 Republican U.S. Senate, Congressional and gubernatorial candidates in 24 states, as well as the Moderate Party of Sweden.
Karl writes a weekly op-ed for The Wall Street Journal, is a Newsweek columnist and is now writing a book to be published by Simon & Schuster. Email the author at [email protected] or visit him on the web at Rove.com.
Or, you can send him a Tweet @karlrove.


There is some good news in the Resurgent Republic poll for Mr. Obama if he can sell his plan as shifting power from "insurance bureaucrats to consumers." Resurgent's poll found that Americans favor that by 57% to 38%.
But to argue, as Mr. Obama does, that a government-run health-care plan can control costs better than a market-based system is a mistake. This argument is belied by Medicare's experience. A study published by the Pacific Research Institute finds that since 1970 Medicare's costs have risen 34% a year faster than the rest of health care.
Mr. Obama's trashing of American health care as "a broken system" that must be brought "into the 21st century" doesn't resonate with most Americans. They are happy about their health care, doctor and hospital. Resurgent's poll found that 83% of Americans are very or somewhat satisfied with the quality of care they and their families receive.
Nearly everyone agrees that some reforms are needed. But it is also vital to protect areas of excellence and innovation. Stanford University professor Scott Atlas points out that from 1998 to 2002 nearly twice as many new drugs were launched in the U.S. as in Europe. According the U.S. Pharmaceutical Industry Report, some 2,900 new drugs are now being researched here. America's five top hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other developed country, according to Mr. Atlas. And a McKinsey Co. study reports that 40% of all medical travelers come to the United States for medical treatment.
Transforming health care into a government-run system would be difficult to do under any circumstances. Americans are still wary about big government. Health-care reform also always sounds better in the abstract. Public resistance rises once liberals are forced to release the details of their plans.
Meanwhile, the $787 billion stimulus package has not provided the economic kick Mr. Obama promised. The $410 billion Omnibus spending bill the president signed in March and his $3.5 trillion budget plan for next year are also adding to the river of red ink.
Health-care reform was said to be "inevitable" a few months ago. Today, its prospects are less certain, even to Democrats. The issue may even turn out to be a millstone for the party.
Americans are increasingly concerned about the cost -- in money and personal freedom -- of Mr. Obama's nanny-state initiatives. To strengthen the emerging coalition of independents and Republicans, the GOP must fight Mr. Obama's agenda with reasoned arguments and attractive alternatives. Health care may actually be an issue that helps resurrect the GOP.
Mr. Rove is the former senior adviser and deputy chief of staff to President George W. Bush.
 
Eleanor Clift

Short of the Magic

Right now, Democrats don't have the 60 votes needed to enact health-care reform.

Jun 26, 2009




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It's clear to many Democrats that they'll need Republican support to enact President Obama's health-care reform. With Senators Kennedy and Byrd sidelined by illness, Al Franken not yet seated, and two more Democrats on record publicly opposing the public option that the president supports, the majority currently has about 55 votes—short of the magic 60 needed to avoid a bill-killing filibuster, according to Sen. Kent Conrad of North Dakota, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee.
At a Capitol Hill breakfast on Wednesday, Conrad told an overflow crowd of health-care lobbyists and policy wonks that reform isn't optional. Despite the eyepopping cost, it must be done, he said, adding that the most expensive option is to do nothing.
Earnest and bespectacled, Conrad has the air of an accountant, appropriate for someone who spends his time staring at numbers that could take the country into the abyss. He spent the previous evening at a White House meeting with chief of staff Rahm Emanuel and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, among others. "As a country we are headed off the cliff," he told the breakfast audience, backing up his prediction with charts about the dire state of America's health-care system.


The way the battle lines are shaping up, Republicans and some Democrats are prepared to oppose any bill that has a public option, meaning a government-run, Medicare-like program that would be nonprofit and offer a basic benefit plan. Critics say it's a socialist takeover that would put a government bureaucrat between patient and doctor. But polls show that a surprisingly large majority of Americans want a public option, and that they're less fearful of government bureaucrats than the insurance companies they now have to contend with. How hard Obama will fight for a public option is a mystery. He gives lip service to it, but liberals who say reform will be a sham without it are worried he sees it more as a bargaining chip than the core of reform.
That's where Conrad comes in. So many stakeholders crowded in to hear him this week because of his idea for health insurance co-ops that would be nonprofit and run by members. That could get around the objections to a government-sponsored option. Saying his proposal wasn't "an epiphany," Conrad said co-ops are a way of life in rural America where he's from, and in floating the idea, he found it was the only plan that key Republicans said they could accept. Here's the rub: Democrats need only 51 votes for passage if health insurance is combined in a legislative maneuver with the budget, which can't be filibustered. Do Democrats want to get 80 percent of what they want with 51 votes? Or will they settle for 51 percent of what they want in order to get 80 votes?
For Democrats who voted for change, that's a no-brainer. But Conrad cautions that the legislative maneuver known as "recision" isn't a free ride, that any reform measure would have to reduce the deficit by at least $1 billion over six years, and anything that doesn't have a positive budgetary impact could be stricken from the bill. "We'd be left with Swiss cheese," he warns.
After playing nice for months, insurance companies, health-care providers, and pharmaceuticals are suiting up for battle. Dr. Steven Pribut, a Washington podiatrist, was on the elliptical at the gym when he heard former Republican speaker Newt Gingrich on one of the cable networks denounce a public option in his typically apocalyptic fashion. Nobody challenged him, so Pribut says he poked around on the Internet to learn more about Gingrich's expertise on the topic. He discovered that Gingrich was the founder of a health-reform organization that has as its members more than 20 large corporations, including GlaxoSmithKline and UnitedHealthcare. Pribut was moved to post an item on ++his blog++ [[http://www.drpribut.com/blog/]] suggesting that those making pronouncements should disclose their conflicts. (In the spirit of disclosure, I should say here that I get orthotics from Dr. Pribut.)
Pribut supports a public option as a way to set a minimal standard and put pressure on the insurance industry to conform to that standard without deception. Right now, competition too often means looking for ways to exclude people. Pribut calls insurers "holding companies—they hold patients' money and withhold payments they should be making." But he's not calling for their elimination; he thinks there's much they can do to make their services more attractive and add value for many people.
At the White House, policymakers envision a public option that would coexist with private insurers in the same way that UPS and FedEx compete with the post office, or the way that 401(k)s supplement Social Security. There would still be a vibrant private marketplace. White House support for a public option is strong. It's the political will that's uncertain.
© 2009
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Neocons are funny when they get angry. Do you take special classes do lose touch with reality or are you just naturally anti-society. I can't wait for national health care, and all you people making more than 250k pay for it. God knows none of you nurses deserve it.
 
Neocons are funny when they get angry. Do you take special classes do lose touch with reality or are you just naturally anti-society. I can't wait for national health care, and all you people making more than 250k pay for it. God knows none of you nurses deserve it.

C'mon Jet, it's been 20 minutes. You ought to be putting lead downrange by now ... :)
 
Neocons are funny when they get angry. Do you take special classes do lose touch with reality or are you just naturally anti-society. I can't wait for national health care, and all you people making more than 250k pay for it. God knows none of you nurses deserve it.

LOL, look at the baby commie crying! Such love and caring from such a self-declared non-angry person.

Comrade, I think you need to re-educate yourself on the issues at hand. Didn't you hear Chairman Maobama saying he would pay for private care if he or his family got sick? Do you think that your dear leaders would participate in such a public plan? Hardly!

Chairman Maobama will have his own &#1062;&#1077;&#1085;&#1090;&#1088;&#1072;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1072;&#1103; &#1082;&#1083;&#1080;&#1085;&#1080;&#1095;&#1077;&#1089;&#1082;&#1072;&#1103; &#1073;&#1086;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1080;&#1094;&#1072; c &#1087;&#1086;&#1083;&#1080;&#1082;&#1083;&#1080;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;&#1086;&#1081; &#1059;&#1087;&#1088;&#1072;&#1074;&#1083;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1103; &#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;&#1084;&#1080; &#1055;&#1088;&#1077;&#1079;&#1080;&#1076;&#1077;&#1085;&#1090;&#1072; &#1056;&#1086;&#1089;&#1089;&#1080;&#1081;&#1089;&#1082;&#1086;&#1081; &#1060;&#1077;&#1076;&#1077;&#1088;&#1072;&#1094;&#1080;&#1080;.

Not familiar with the native language of your budding ideology?

It's English translation is roughly : The Central Clinical Hospital of the Presidential Administration of the Russian Federation. It's guarded by the Federal Protective Service, and has always been the hospital for the elites of Russia.

You know, what's good for the sheeple isn't always good enough for the politboro.
 
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

http://www.kcckp.net/en/periodic/todaykorea/index.php?contents+4035+2009-03+119+11

"We Envy Korean Women”






The Pyongyang Maternity Hospital is a comprehensive curative base which is provided with all conditions for medical treatment, ranging from the birth of children to the health of women in their confinement.

Here Korean women receive assistance in childbirth and are given medical treatment free from any worries amid the special concern of the state.

That is why Korean women call this maternity hospital “maiden home” unreservedly.

Foreign visitors to this hospital are unsparing in their praise of the happiness the Korean women enjoy here, saying that they are blessed women.

Callingham Rogenmary, a member of a delegation from United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) said in the following vein:
The Pyongyang Maternity Hospital is a very fine place for the Korean women.

The great President Kim Il Sung attached great importance to the health of women. I have been deeply moved by the very scrupulous concern and solicitude shown for all the women.

Joseph, a UNICEF consultant of breast-feeding, said to this effect:
I have been deeply affected after going round this splendid hospital for women and children. It is the standard of all hospitals. It is clean and is on a very high hygienic level. In particular, both the room for TV interviews between women delivered of children and visitors and the triplets department are to be found in this hospital alone and the like of them have I seen nowhere in the world so far.

Alejandro Cao de Benos, the head of a delegation from the Association of Friendship with the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea whose headquarters are in Spain, expressed his impressions. The substance of what he said was:

I have been to dozens of countries the world over. But nowhere else have I found such a modern and comprehensive maternity hospital as the Pyongyang Maternity Hospital. Korean women receive assistance in childbirth and are given medical treatment under a condition as happy as happy can be.

Jordanian writer Marwan Musa Salrim Sudah and his wife, on a visit to Pyongyang in October last year, went round the Pyongyang Maternity Hospital and made no secret of their feelings of admiration for the fact that the hospital was admirably furnished with all necessary facilities.
He said to this effect:

In general, a maternity hospital is an institution where women give birth to children. But what leaves a deep impress at this hospital is that it is arranged in the form of general hospital so that women can be assisted by midwives when they are in childbirth and that they can be given treatment even when they are seized with such diseases as are dealt with at specialized departments. We quite envy the women who are placed under medical care at such a hospital.

Ludmila Revkova in charge of the Kim Jong Il Association of Children for Russia-Korean Friendship at Secondary School No. 11 in Khabarovsk, Russia, said in the following vein:

I have seen with my own eyes many women who are undergoing medical treatment at the Pyongyang Maternity Hospital furnished with up-to-date facilities without paying even a penny. It is beyond conception in capitalist society that the state provides all conditions for the promotion of health of the women.

Voices of admiration can also be heard among the foreign women who have been delivered of children at the Pyongyang Maternity Hospital.
Mariyang Yunes Babai, wife of a former second secretary of the Iranian Embassy in the DPRK, had a pretty girl at this hospital in May 2004. On the day of her discharge from the hospital, she, recalling her stay to memory, said that she had deeply felt again the warmth and sincerity of the health workers of the Pyongyang Maternity Hospital and added: “They have high technical attainments. On top of it, the hospital is on a very splendid level both materially and technically as well so that sufficient obstetrical and gynaecological treatment can be given.”

The wife of Michel le Pechoux, the acting representative of UNICEF to the DPRK said: “I should like to express my heartfelt thanks to all the members of the maternity hospital for their deepest love and care for me and my son Jun, for the splendid benefits of the DPRK’s health system and exceptional concern.”
 
I believe Chairman Maobama will still have some private care options left within the socialized system. After all, check out the grace and joy of Kim Jong Il! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

*Note*: They have some great North Korean medical propaganda articles on their official website, http://www.kcckp.net. Check out the "Head Nurse Diary".

http://www.kcckp.net/en/periodic/todaykorea/index.php?contents+3936+2009-01+117+12

Beautiful Face of Mother

It was one day in December 2004 when Kim Jong Il, Supreme Commander of the Korean People’s Army (KPA), visited a navy unit and met a woman and two men with vivid scars from serious burns on their faces.

The woman had been a soldier and the two men maintenance workers at a local revolutionary site, when they had serious burns on their bodies while protecting the relics of the place from a sudden forest fire several years before. She was now working as an instructor of the place after discharge from military service, like the men.

Looking at her face attentively, the leader asked her how she was treated for her burns.


Though she had been looking forward to seeing him even in her dream, the instructor couldn’t lift her face and answer, for fear that her face with ugly scars would worry him. On her behalf one official replied that she had received facial surgeries 14 times at Hamhung Orthopaedic Hospital and Pyongyang University of Medicine Teaching Hospital and that now she got better.

Looking painfully at their faces for a while the Supreme Commander worried that they had still burnt scars on faces and hands and said they should be sent abroad for treatment in order to regain their original looks.

His affectionate words made the woman burst into tears.

She was at first ashamed of her withered face to be seen, but gradually felt relieved as everybody held her in respect and affection. And an army officer proposed to her, encouraging her that human beauty lies in the heart. On the wedding day, a senior official in her hometown told her to lift her face proudly as she was an admirable daughter of the country with a firm conviction that never burns even in fire. At that moment, she made up her mind not to worry about her face anymore.

Her resolve, however, began to be soft when she had a daughter. She was afraid her scarred face should be projected on her daughter’s clear eyes, but the next moment she consoled herself with the thought that when she grew up, she would understand.

Seeing them in tears with emotion, Kim Jong Il said, “We ought to spend money on their smart surgeries. Perhaps they have children of their own, and we should help them regain their original features and show them to the children.”

Thanks to his care, they were sent to a famous hospital in a foreign country and received facial surgeries at a great cost.

A year later they returned home. The woman instructor who was restored to her beautiful face, hugged her two-year-old daughter at the airport, and whispered in an emotion-choked voice.

Look at my beautiful face, darling!
 
Neocons are funny when they get angry. Do you take special classes do lose touch with reality or are you just naturally anti-society. I can't wait for national health care, and all you people making more than 250k pay for it. God knows none of you nurses deserve it.


Hey,

I found your favorite talk show. Check out your man on health care:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31532839#31532839

The above LINK is worth your ten minutes. See what the Liberals really think.
 
"The Ed Show"

LOL..Who is this "progressive" clown?

Pro-union, pro-big government, anti-private sector, anti-capitalistic solutions. I also looked up, and while the biggest liberal radio talk show host, he's small-average in size overall, with only about 100 affiliates nationwide, broadcasting out of Fargo, ND.

The majority of Americans are not supporters of Chairman Maobama's and ED of the "ED" show's views of healthcare "reform".

The Senator from Wyoming (who is an orthopod) owned the clown Ed. Nice clip, blade.

Hey,

I found your favorite talk show. Check out your man on health care:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31532839#31532839

The above LINK is worth your ten minutes. See what the Liberals really think.
 
spyyder said:
Do you take special classes do lose touch with reality or are you just naturally anti-society.
LOL, look at the baby commie crying! ... Comrade ... Chairman Maobama ... sheeple
BLADEMDA said:
See what the Liberals really think.
Jesus. I understand this is a divisive issue, and this is only an online forum, but are you people really twelve years old? This is embarassing.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
APTRANS.gif
updated 3:02 p.m. ET, Tues., June 30, 2009

WASHINGTON - Senators on a key committee are putting the finishing touches on a government health insurance option that they hope will win broad support among Democrats and the public.
According to a draft summary circulating Tuesday, the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee proposal calls for a nationwide plan to be run by the federal government. An upfront loan from taxpayers would get the plan started, but it would have to pay its own way after a few months, relying on premiums collected from beneficiaries to stay solvent.
The public plan would be offered alongside private coverage through new insurance purchasing pools called exchanges. The government option would have to follow the same consumer protection rules as private plans it competes with.
Story continues below &#8595; advertisement | your ad here


The idea of government medical coverage for middle-class workers and their families has become the hottest issue in the debate over how to overhaul the health care system. President Barack Obama and most Democrats say the choice of a public plan would serve to balance the power of private insurers. But insurance companies see it as a step toward a government takeover, and many business groups agree. Polls indicate public support for a government option.
"This has the ability to unify Democrats," Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, said Tuesday. His organization is a liberal advocacy group that supports coverage for all.
One of at least four options
The health committee proposal will be one of at least four major options for lawmakers to consider on a government plan after they return from their weeklong July 4th recess.
The first option is to have no public plan, maintaining the current system in which the government covers the elderly and low-income people, but most workers and their families get job-based insurance. Having no public plan is the option favored by Republicans, who are almost unanimously opposed to the idea.
At the other end of the spectrum is the House Democrats' proposal. It calls for a public plan that would pay doctors and hospitals using reimbursement rates keyed to Medicare's, which medical providers say are often too low.
In an important distinction, the Senate HELP committee's plan would not use Medicare payment rates.
Instead it would set fees to doctors and hospitals using an average of what private insurers pay in each local area, according to the summary. That seemingly technical difference could help neutralize opposition from medical providers, who are wary that a public plan will translate into a significant pay cut for them. The health panel's plan also stipulates that hospitals and doctors would be free to opt in or out.
Trying to find a compromise
Finally, the Senate Finance Committee is trying to come up with a bipartisan compromise. Ideas include setting up nonprofit co-ops that would not be controlled by the government, and having a public plan as a fallback only if private insurers fail to bring costs down and expand coverage.

Click for related content

Obama to hold virtual town hall on health care



The health committee plan reflects some of the ideas outlined by Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., who has been taking a leading role for Democrats on the issue.
"We believe it is possible to devise a public plan option that exerts competitive pressure on insurers without relying on unfair, built-in advantages," Schumer said in a statement Tuesday. "We are going to keep up our push to include this kind of plan in the health care reform bill."
A spokesman for Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., who's standing in for Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., at the head of the health committee, had no immediate comment.
 
Two words for all the Maobama supporters of nationalized health care:

SOCIAL SECURITY

This example of efficiency and economy is set to go bankrupt very shortly while continuing to pay benefits to people who are dead. Oh wait, no problem just put 1 trillion to bail out Social Security. Obamanomics you just can't beat it!

Seriously though, please call and write your representatives! Not just an online contact form but a real one to two page logical letter on real paper and a real envelope.

I know this is effective because the Texas legislature recently revoked some special needs money. They were hammered with letters and calls to the extent that all the phone lines were tied up for weeks. We need to stop complaining to ourselves and let our representatives know.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/health/07essa.html?_r=1&em

the quote:

The constant intrusion of the marketplace is creating serious and deepening anxiety in the profession.

is especially true.

you would feel strongly too if you understood what it takes to go through med school and residency. and then you were told that you OWE the american people more of your tax money and that your compensation will continue to fall. this profession is way too difficult if you remove its inherent stability.

Jesus. I understand this is a divisive issue, and this is only an online forum, but are you people really twelve years old? This is embarassing.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/health/07essa.html?_r=1&em

the quote:

The constant intrusion of the marketplace is creating serious and deepening anxiety in the profession.

is especially true.

you would feel strongly too if you understood what it takes to go through med school and residency. and then you were told that you OWE the american people more of your tax money and that your compensation will continue to fall. this profession is way too difficult if you remove its inherent stability.

Agreed. Take a look at today's news. Plan on paying an additional surplus of 3.5% if you make over 200k. Wait, don't worry Maobama is going to reduce Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements to specialists so you will never have to worry about making over 200k.
 
LOL, look at the baby commie crying! Such love and caring from such a self-declared non-angry person.

Comrade, I think you need to re-educate yourself on the issues at hand. Didn't you hear Chairman Maobama saying he would pay for private care if he or his family got sick? Do you think that your dear leaders would participate in such a public plan? Hardly!

Chairman Maobama will have his own &#1062;&#1077;&#1085;&#1090;&#1088;&#1072;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1072;&#1103; &#1082;&#1083;&#1080;&#1085;&#1080;&#1095;&#1077;&#1089;&#1082;&#1072;&#1103; &#1073;&#1086;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1080;&#1094;&#1072; c &#1087;&#1086;&#1083;&#1080;&#1082;&#1083;&#1080;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;&#1086;&#1081; &#1059;&#1087;&#1088;&#1072;&#1074;&#1083;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1103; &#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;&#1084;&#1080; &#1055;&#1088;&#1077;&#1079;&#1080;&#1076;&#1077;&#1085;&#1090;&#1072; &#1056;&#1086;&#1089;&#1089;&#1080;&#1081;&#1089;&#1082;&#1086;&#1081; &#1060;&#1077;&#1076;&#1077;&#1088;&#1072;&#1094;&#1080;&#1080;.

Not familiar with the native language of your budding ideology?

It's English translation is roughly : The Central Clinical Hospital of the Presidential Administration of the Russian Federation. It's guarded by the Federal Protective Service, and has always been the hospital for the elites of Russia.

You know, what's good for the sheeple isn't always good enough for the politboro.

Wow, that is some comedy there. As crappy as his post was you proved that someone can cram more crazy talk with cues that people shouldn't take you seriously into one post. You sir, have turned mindless trolling into an art form. I applaud you!

You should switch it up so you don't get mistaken for some nut. Start a thread about how bush and rove were nazis and how they ruined health care to line the pockets of the illuminati!
 
Wow, that is some comedy there. As crappy as his post was you proved that someone can cram more crazy talk with cues that people shouldn't take you seriously into one post. You sir, have turned mindless trolling into an art form. I applaud you!

You should switch it up so you don't get mistaken for some nut. Start a thread about how bush and rove were nazis and how they ruined health care to line the pockets of the illuminati!

Huh? What are you talking about?

If you think Chairman Maobama's policies are not utterly communistic in nature, then there isn't anything I can do to help you.

You see, when you have people like Chairman Maobama leading our nation, and telling us to steal from the rich to give to the poor, do you really think that he will follow suit?

Heck no. Just like his ideological comrades in the old USSR, he will ensure that he and other members of govt have the best of the best.

Hope that clarifies things. Your post really didn't make any sense otherwise...
 
C'mon Jet, it's been 20 minutes. You ought to be putting lead downrange by now ... :)

Typical neocon ideologue. Lets shut out dissenting opinion, they are wrong, we are right, rah rah rah! This thread is full of more talking points than 15 minutes of Rush Limbaugh. Why do you guys hate America so much that you are willing to 'kill' your countrymen to make a buck? Patriots of freedom support universal healthcare. It's down right anti-American to continue to support our current system. Like I said before I will glady take a 50%+ pay cut to pay for healthcare.
 
Huh? What are you talking about?

If you think Chairman Maobama's policies are not utterly communistic in nature, then there isn't anything I can do to help you.

You see, when you have people like Chairman Maobama leading our nation, and telling us to steal from the rich to give to the poor, do you really think that he will follow suit?

Heck no. Just like his ideological comrades in the old USSR, he will ensure that he and other members of govt have the best of the best.

Hope that clarifies things. Your post really didn't make any sense otherwise...

You might want to learn what Communism is before you use such big words. Also what makes you think you are entitled to stay 'rich'. After all most people became 'rich' using socialist programs like public schools, public roads, public libraries, public utilities, public law enforcement, public sanitation. Their money is protected by socialist banking laws and financial regulations. Oh the naivety runs deep in this one.
 
You might want to learn what Communism is before you use such big words. Also what makes you think you are entitled to stay 'rich'. After all most people became 'rich' using socialist programs like public schools, public roads, public libraries, public utilities, public law enforcement, public sanitation. Their money is protected by socialist banking laws and financial regulations. Oh the naivety runs deep in this one.

Says the ever so intelligent and experienced med student. Get back to us when you are a physician and actually earn a paycheck. Until then, spare us your commie nonsense. If you feel the same when/if you graduate, then you are more than welcome to enjoy getting **** on in your free clinic.
 
Typical neocon ideologue. Lets shut out dissenting opinion, they are wrong, we are right, rah rah rah! This thread is full of more talking points than 15 minutes of Rush Limbaugh. Why do you guys hate America so much that you are willing to 'kill' your countrymen to make a buck? Patriots of freedom support universal healthcare. It's down right anti-American to continue to support our current system. Like I said before I will glady take a 50%+ pay cut to pay for healthcare.
you don't earn any paychecks yet, chief
 
Why do you guys hate America so much that you are willing to 'kill' your countrymen to make a buck? ...Like I said before I will glady take a 50%+ pay cut to pay for healthcare.

let's see how you feel after a couple of sleepless nights in a row burning hundreds of thousands of dollars trying vainly to save one of your countrymen's lives--lives that they've either directly or indirectly attempted to end themselves...
 
Says the ever so intelligent and experienced med student. Get back to us when you are a physician and actually earn a paycheck. Until then, spare us your commie nonsense. If you feel the same when/if you graduate, then you are more than welcome to enjoy getting **** on in your free clinic.

How about you, do you get a paycheck? If you want some credibility, why can you even tell us who are? with only three post on here, I can only see the general internet warmongering in your writing.
 
How about you, do you get a paycheck? If you want some credibility, why can you even tell us who are? with only three post on here, I can only see the general internet warmongering in your writing.

ACLU member? ACORN internet police?
Dude - get back to your textbooks and enjoy being a student. If you want "democracy" North Korea is a place for you. After you start to make a buck - post again and we'll see. :sleep:
 
ACLU member? ACORN internet police?
Dude - get back to your textbooks and enjoy being a student. If you want "democracy" North Korea is a place for you. After you start to make a buck - post again and we'll see. :sleep:

2win, you've outdone yourself with this thread. Spare people some time. What makes you think I support this administration?
 
How about you, do you get a paycheck? If you want some credibility, why can you even tell us who are? with only three post on here, I can only see the general internet warmongering in your writing.

I'm a resident. I earn my paycheck. Excuse the hostility when a MED STUDENT starts volunteering 50+% of his and everyone else's hard earned paychecks. Again, you are welcome to police this thread when you join the real world. Until then, abide by the same rules that you do in the hospital. Shut up and stand in the corner.
 
I'm a resident. I earn my paycheck. Excuse the hostility when a MED STUDENT starts volunteering 50+% of his and everyone else's hard earned paychecks. Again, you are welcome to police this thread when you join the real world. Until then, abide by the same rules that you do in the hospital. Shut up and stand in the corner.

Check your run-on sentences if you want some credibility.:smuggrin:
 
2win, you've outdone yourself with this thread. Spare people some time. What makes you think I support this administration?

because you're .....
 
strong force, perhaps as powerful in Congress as President Barack Obama, is keeping the drive for health care going even as lawmakers seem hopelessly at odds.
Lobbyists.
The drug industry, the American Medical Association, hospital groups and the insurance lobby are all saying Congress must make major changes this year. Television ads paid for by drug companies and insurers continued to emphasize the benefits of a health care overhaul — not the groups' objections to some of the proposals.
"My gut is telling me that something major can pass because all the people who could kill it are still at the table," said Ken Thorpe, chairman of health policy at Emory University in Atlanta. "Everybody has issues with bits and pieces of it, but all these groups want to get something done this year." As a senior official at the Health and Human Services department in the 1990s, Thorpe was deeply involved in the Clinton administration's failed effort.
President Barack Obama on Saturday continued his full-court press to pass health care reform legislation. In his weekly Internet and radio address, Obama cited a new White House study indicating that small businesses pay far more per employee for health insurance than big companies — a disparity he says is "unsustainable — it's unacceptable."
"And it's going to change when I sign health insurance reform into law," Obama said, adding that he has "a sense of urgency about moving this process forward."
This time, the health care industry groups see a strategic opportunity. As lawmakers squabble, the groups are focused on how to come out ahead in the end game.
"We're still optimistic that we can get health care reform accomplished," said Robert Zirkelbach, spokesman for America's Health Insurance Plans, the main insurance industry trade group. "There is strong support from policymakers and from across the health care sector. "
It's all got to do with shifts in the economy. Even before the recession hit, employer-sponsored health coverage had been steadily shrinking, and many people couldn't afford the premiums for individual policies. Meanwhile, government programs have been expanding — and they've gotten increasingly friendly to private insurance companies. Insurers now play major roles as middlemen in Medicare, Medicaid and the children's insurance program.
And if the government requires everybody to get coverage — just what the overhaul legislation calls for — it could guarantee a steady stream of customers subsidized by taxpayers not only for insurers, but for all medical providers.
What I'm concerned about is the damage that's being done right now to the health of our families, the success of our businesses, and the long-term fiscal stability of our government," Obama said in his address.
Obama criticized what he said were tactics by opponents to block health care overhaul "as a way to inflict political damage on my administration. I'll leave it to them to explain that to the American people."
"Today, after a lot of hard work in Congress, we are closer than ever before to finally passing reform that will reduce costs, expand coverage and provide more choices for our families and businesses," Obama said.
The industry groups have invested heavily to make sure their views get taken into account. The health care sector gave $167 million in campaign contributions to congressional candidates in the 2008 election cycle, according to the watchdog group OpenSecrets.org. Health care companies poured $484 million into lobbying efforts in 2008, and are on pace to exceed that this year.
Separately, the drug companies have offered up $80 billion over 10 years to reduce prescription costs of seniors if a deal goes through, while major hospital groups agreed to a $155-billion reduction in Medicare and Medicaid payments to free up funds that would help subsidize coverage for the uninsured.
The political infighting on Capitol Hill has strengthened the hand of the health care groups, since liberals have been thwarted so far in their attempts to win speedy passage of the legislation through the House and Senate.
One of the liberals' main objectives is to include a strong government-sponsored insurance plan in the legislation, to compete against private insurance. Stopping or weakening the government plan is a top priority for the insurance industry. Other health care interest groups are also leery because the public plan could put a dent in their budgets. The House version, modeled on Medicare, would pay doctors and hospitals less than private insurance.
All eyes are now on Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., who has never been friendly to the idea of a government-sponsored insurance plan. Baucus is trying to broker a bipartisan deal with a handful of Republican colleagues.
It's not clear if Baucus will succeed, but his group is looking at creating nonprofit co-ops that would lack Medicare's power to dictate payment levels and tell providers to take it or leave it. Instead, the co-ops would have to negotiate payment rates with hospitals, doctors and drug makers — just like private insurance plans do.
"We are hopeful at the end of the day a bipartisan plan will emerge that benefits both patients and the U.S. economy," said Ken Johnson, senior vice president of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, the drug industry lobby.
Obama has endorsed the notion of a strong public plan, the kind liberals want to see. But if Baucus gets a bipartisan deal, the president may have to swallow hard and embrace it — or accept defeat of his top domestic priority.
"There is a way out of it — a bipartisan compromise_ but so far the liberals have found that to be anathema," said Robert Laszewski, a health care industry consultant.
Laszewski is pessimistic about the prospects for overhaul legislation this year. But he thinks insurers in particular look like they're in a win-win situation.
"The health insurance industry is in a fantastic position," he said. Democratic liberals overreached and can't move a bill over the objections of their moderate and conservative colleagues.
"Democrats can't blame the industry if this goes down," Laszewski added. "So the health insurance industry is happy to let this thing take its course."
 
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