Weak Extracurricular Activities Question

[Pooker_]

Going into this application cycle will be my first time applying (I'm graduating and taking a gap year). I'm worried that the combination of my subpar GPA and average at best EC's is really going to hold me down from securing an acceptance, or even an II for that matter. I have a few questions so if anyone could provide some insight on any and/or all of them I'd appreciate it.

Current EC's
Shadowing: 200+ hours in various locations primarily specialties but I plan to add some primary care shadowing before my application.
Paid Clinical: 550+ hours working as a patient care associate.
Volunteering: Non-clinical: volunteer firefighter in high-school for ~100 hours
Clinical: Starting next week I can probably have 50 hours minimum by the time apps begin
Research: None, but I'm applying to clinical research positions for my gap year, so this will be filled and will be adding to my clinical hours.
Notable Extras: Part of an orthopedic interest group where I work with medical students under the instruction of physicians to learn new things.

1. I was a volunteer firefighter in high-school. From what I've heard I shouldn't list pre-college activities, but since being a first-responder helped develop my passion for wanting to be a doctor is it okay to list this? I did ~100 hours of this.
2. I'm starting a volunteer position at a hospital next week. When I apply can I put how many hours I'll expect to have by the time I matriculate? I.e. if I have 60 hours when I apply but I'll be doing the position for a year can I put how many hours that will equate to ~250+
3. Is there anyway to swing providing health/fitness/coaching advice to people as a volunteer activity? This is kind of a longshot,but I often helped guide individuals on their fitness journeys whether it was getting their diet in check or helping them set up a workout regiment. The only issue is this was never through a company so I'm not sure how it would be verified or if it would even be counted but I did it all for free to help others.
4. I was an exercise companion for an elderly woman where I would help her get around a few times a week and encourage her to stay active. My transportation was covered, but I was not paid hourly. This was not done through a company, her daughter hired me to do it. Can this be counted as volunteer?

I'm not really sure what would be the best option moving forward. The clear weakness is my volunteering, both clinically and non-clinical. Does anyone have any recommendations as to what to do?

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[calivianya]

You already have the clinical exposure covered between your job and your shadowing. I would go ahead and graciously back out of that clinical volunteering before you start (thank you for the opportunity, but I won't be able to start this position as planned, blah blah blah), and find a non-clinical volunteering position during that time slot instead.

Could you volunteer as a firefighter now, especially if you skip your clinical volunteering? I feel like that would legitimize your past experience if it's something you continue now - volunteer firefighting, x (high school) and y (college) locations, z amount of cumulative hours that will be completed before matriculation. Otherwise, listing something just from high school is going to look weak.

I will defer the other parts to people who know way more than I do.

 

[Pooker_]

You already have the clinical exposure covered between your job and your shadowing. I would go ahead and graciously back out of that clinical volunteering before you start (thank you for the opportunity, but I won't be able to start this position as planned, blah blah blah), and find a non-clinical volunteering position during that time slot instead.

Could you volunteer as a firefighter now, especially if you skip your clinical volunteering? I feel like that would legitimize your past experience if it's something you continue now - volunteer firefighting, x (high school) and y (college) locations, z amount of cumulative hours that will be completed before matriculation. Otherwise, listing something just from high school is going to look weak.

I will defer the other parts to people who know way more than I do.

You don't think it would be important to do any clinical volunteering if I have none? I thought ADCOMs would look down on having zero, so even if I were to only do this position temporarily.
I can't do volunteer firefighting anymore, at this age I'd have to go through the entire process of being certified legitimately -- so this isn't an option.
I may even be able to add in another volunteer position that is non-clinical -- do you have any recommendations as to what the best ones are?
My other concern is that at this point I feel like it just looks like I'm "checking boxes" so I want to find a solid thing to stick to, but something that I can also genuinely talk about in an interview.

 

[LizzyM]

Frankly, and it might kill you to hear this, you should plan on two gap years. You can apply 15 months from now with a strong application or you can be sitting there, 12 months from now with a failed cycle (which would not surprise you) and the need to reapply.
Do it right. Do it once.

Put the firefighter thing in your essay but don't list it among your experiences. Ditto the health and fitness activities.
You can list yourself as a volunteer who helped an elderly woman as a volunteer even if you were reimbursed for your travel.
If you have paid clinical experience, it isn't important to have volunteer clinical experience as well but it is important to have some community service and not doing a "two birds-one stone" of a clinical volunteering gig makes it seem like you did it because you like to help people and not because you could double count it as service and clinical.
Stop shadowing and start doing. 200 hours of shadowing is already too much standing around watching.
Research is important if you have high GPA and high MCAT and are gunning for a research-intensive med school.
It would have been nice to see some community service to help the poor or others who are unable to help themselves (feeding the hungry, teaching/tutoring the poor, advocacy for immigrants/refugees, etc). Try to start somethign like that rather than volunteering in a hospital setting when you are already shadowing and working in clinical settings.

 

[calivianya]

You don't think it would be important to do any clinical volunteering if I have none? I thought ADCOMs would look down on having zero, so even if I were to only do this position temporarily.
I can't do volunteer firefighting anymore, at this age I'd have to go through the entire process of being certified legitimately -- so this isn't an option.
I may even be able to add in another volunteer position that is non-clinical -- do you have any recommendations as to what the best ones are?
My other concern is that at this point I feel like it just looks like I'm "checking boxes" so I want to find a solid thing to stick to, but something that I can also genuinely talk about in an interview.

I actually had this exact topic come up in an interview for my state school - clinical vs. non-clinical volunteering. They noted I have extensive paid clinical hours and moderate clinical volunteering, but criticized me on a lack of community service. My interviewer stated I was not a good fit for the school's service-oriented mission based on my lack of service activities, and got told "for next year, you need community service activities." I was not at all surprised that I got rejected post interview after that "for next year" comment.

My takeaway from that was that if you already have good clinical exposure and have to choose between clinical volunteering and non-clinical volunteering, choose non-clinical. Based on what I was told in my interview, if I'd had community service instead of clinical volunteering, I would have had a chance of being accepted to that school. N=1, though.

Anything that's not comfortable would probably be good non-clinical volunteering. Soup kitchens, working in a homeless shelter, etc. I picked up a position with an organization that offers money, food, and prescription drugs to people in crisis situations.

 

[Pooker_]

Frankly, and it might kill you to hear this, you should plan on two gap years. You can apply 15 months from now with a strong application or you can be sitting there, 12 months from now with a failed cycle (which would not surprise you) and the need to reapply.
Do it right. Do it once.

Put the firefighter thing in your essay but don't list it among your experiences. Ditto the health and fitness activities.
You can list yourself as a volunteer who helped an elderly woman as a volunteer even if you were reimbursed for your travel.
If you have paid clinical experience, it isn't important to have volunteer clinical experience as well but it is important to have some community service and not doing a "two birds-one stone" of a clinical volunteering gig makes it seem like you did it because you like to help people and not because you could double count it as service and clinical.
Stop shadowing and start doing. 200 hours of shadowing is already too much standing around watching.
Research is important if you have high GPA and high MCAT and are gunning for a research-intensive med school.
It would have been nice to see some community service to help the poor or others who are unable to help themselves (feeding the hungry, teaching/tutoring the poor, advocacy for immigrants/refugees, etc). Try to start somethign like that rather than volunteering in a hospital setting when you are already shadowing and working in clinical settings.

Thank you for the response. So the clinical volunteer is very low commitment -- its only ~3-4 hours a week so I can still fit something else into my schedule. The reason I was adding the clinical research is because I figured it was the best option for my gap year to fund my living while gaining new exposure and having a small chance of being published.
If I were to be able to start volunteering at a non-clinical place immediately and gain ~50+ hours paired with my ~50+ hours of clinical and having ADCOMs both know they are ongoing is that reasonable?
If it helps my GPA is going be be ~3.55 and my MCAT is a 512 so it's really my GPA and lack of EC's holding me back.

 

[Gilakend]

Frankly, and it might kill you to hear this, you should plan on two gap years. You can apply 15 months from now with a strong application or you can be sitting there, 12 months from now with a failed cycle (which would not surprise you) and the need to reapply.
Do it right. Do it once.

Put the firefighter thing in your essay but don't list it among your experiences. Ditto the health and fitness activities.
You can list yourself as a volunteer who helped an elderly woman as a volunteer even if you were reimbursed for your travel.
If you have paid clinical experience, it isn't important to have volunteer clinical experience as well but it is important to have some community service and not doing a "two birds-one stone" of a clinical volunteering gig makes it seem like you did it because you like to help people and not because you could double count it as service and clinical.
Stop shadowing and start doing. 200 hours of shadowing is already too much standing around watching.
Research is important if you have high GPA and high MCAT and are gunning for a research-intensive med school.
It would have been nice to see some community service to help the poor or others who are unable to help themselves (feeding the hungry, teaching/tutoring the poor, advocacy for immigrants/refugees, etc). Try to start somethign like that rather than volunteering in a hospital setting when you are already shadowing and working in clinical settings.

Just curious, if he could get 100 hours of clinical and non-clinical volunteering before this app cycle could he apply? I didn't know if you recommended another gap year so he would get enough hours or because doing it in 3 months would look like "box-checking"

 

[calivianya]

Thank you for the response. So the clinical volunteer is very low commitment -- its only ~3-4 hours a week so I can still fit something else into my schedule. The reason I was adding the clinical research is because I figured it was the best option for my gap year to fund my living while gaining new exposure and having a small chance of being published.
If I were to be able to start volunteering at a non-clinical place immediately and gain ~50+ hours paired with my ~50+ hours of clinical and having ADCOMs both know they are ongoing is that reasonable?
If it helps my GPA is going be be ~3.55 and my MCAT is a 512 so it's really my GPA and lack of EC's holding me back.

My cumulative GPA's right at yours, with my MCAT a few points higher.

With the glaring deficits of lack of research/lack of community service before app (I kind of feel like adcoms are going to see you're box checking if you are just starting now), I still had great luck with DO schools. If you are determined to apply this cycle, I just about guarantee you will get some DO acceptances with that MCAT score.

Honestly, if I could do this all over, I probably would have applied DO only to save myself a lot of money and grief.

 

[Pooker_]

@calivianya @LizzyM - If we assume I can rack up some good hours before the cycle is there anyway I can spin it to not sound like I'm box-checking? I get that in an interview I would be expected to talk genuinely about my experience, which I'm sure I'll be able to by then, but in regards to not having prior hours what would be the best way to bring that up? I was a transfer student/dealing with personal stuff/working etc for a while, but I know excuses only go so far because other people make time for it. Is it reasonable to say something along the lines of me wanting go directly into clinical work to get as much experience as possible and then since I gained what I could from those positions I wanted to give back to the community as much as possible before medical school? I know they want to see long-term commitments, but that isn't really an option for me right now. Also, in regards to reporting future hours -- is that allowed or no?

 

[LizzyM]

@calivianya @LizzyM - If we assume I can rack up some good hours before the cycle is there anyway I can spin it to not sound like I'm box-checking? I get that in an interview I would be expected to talk genuinely about my experience, which I'm sure I'll be able to by then, but in regards to not having prior hours what would be the best way to bring that up? I was a transfer student/dealing with personal stuff/working etc for a while, but I know excuses only go so far because other people make time for it. Is it reasonable to say something along the lines of me wanting go directly into clinical work to get as much experience as possible and then since I gained what I could from those positions I wanted to give back to the community as much as possible before medical school? I know they want to see long-term commitments, but that isn't really an option for me right now. Also, in regards to reporting future hours -- is that allowed or no?

What you start after January of the application year always looks like box checking. You won't even get the chance to talk about it becuase you are unlikely to be invited for interview.
Less than half of all applicants get even one offer of admission. You need to have a far better application in relation to others than you did to get into college.

You can list future hours as long as you start the activity before you apply. However, some adcoms are getting wise to the applicants who have done something for 5 hours and who plan to do another 95 (or 995) before matriculation. Those experiences are heavily discounted.

DO schoosl will be fine; they aren't looking for research experience and your grades and scores are in that ballpark. If you want to be employed and support yourself and research seems to be the best way to do that, go for it. It beats pulling espresso shots as a barista. But don't do it because you think it will look good on your application.

Some schools want a ton of clinical experience and you might be too light for those schools. (A few are looking for a year full-time.) Know before you apply what the school's expectations are for clinical experience.

 

[Pooker_]

What you start after January of the application year always looks like box checking. You won't even get the chance to talk about it becuase you are unlikely to be invited for interview.
Less than half of all applicants get even one offer of admission. You need to have a far better application in relation to others than you did to get into college.

You can list future hours as long as you start the activity before you apply. However, some adcoms are getting wise to the applicants who have done something for 5 hours and who plan to do another 95 (or 995) before matriculation. Those experiences are heavily discounted.

DO schoosl will be fine; they aren't looking for research experience and your grades and scores are in that ballpark. If you want to be employed and support yourself and research seems to be the best way to do that, go for it. It beats pulling espresso shots as a barista. But don't do it because you think it will look good on your application.

Some schools want a ton of clinical experience and you might be too light for those schools. (A few are looking for a year full-time.) Know before you apply what the school's expectations are for clinical experience.

Moving forward to the following application cycle assuming I get zero II's and/or acceptances -- Do you think having that year of volunteering/research will make a significant difference? There is still the issue of my subpar GPA.

 

[lovehate]

If you had strong stats (esp. higher gpa), you might get accepted somewhere with your ECs. But you need much better ECs to compensate 3.55 even with 512. I know you might not like to hear this, but I don't think it's wise to apply this upcoming cycle.

 

[Pooker_]

If you had strong stats (esp. higher gpa), you might get accepted somewhere with your ECs. But you need much better ECs to compensate 3.55 even with 512. I know you might not like to hear this, but I don't think it's wise to apply this upcoming cycle.

Is there any significant downfall to reapplying besides loss of money? I know you need to show improvement over the next year (which a job and volunteering would do) to improve my EC's significantly. Is there any other reason why I would be at a disadvantage? I just feel like I'm wasting a year to just get volunteer service if I don't apply. I'm confident I can get ~100 hours by the time of application and that would also be ongoing.

 

[lovehate]

Is there any significant downfall to reapplying besides loss of money? I know you need to show improvement over the next year (which a job and volunteering would do) to improve my EC's significantly. Is there any other reason why I would be at a disadvantage?

You are right, money is usually what comes to mind first. AMCAS processing fees and the secondaries are pretty expensive. (~$150-200 per school + one time amcas processing fee). From my understanding, if money is not an issue, It's school dependent. They will ask why they rejected you the first time and look for significant improvement. Do you think you can make significant within a year?

 

[Pooker_]

You are right, money is usually what comes to mind first. AMCAS processing fees and the secondaries are pretty expensive. (~$150-200 per school + one time amcas processing fee). From my understanding, if money is not an issue, It's school dependent. They will ask why they rejected you the first time and look for significant improvement. Do you think you can make significant within a year?

Well the only thing I can't fix is my GPA. I can afford another cycle, but not 70k for a SMP. So, my lacking problems are clearly volunteer and research (school dependent) which would both increase significantly. Assuming I get a research job that would be ~1500-2500 hours over the year + active volunteering for the entire year could easily put me at ~300-600 hours. If I were to reapply I assume I'll be able to knock quite a few off my list that don't list my EC's as the reason I was declined (i.e. my GPA). Assuming I fail this cycle, I also plan to apply to a few DO next cycle along with my smaller MD list.

 

[LizzyM]

Having a failed cycle is emotionally draining as well as being financially draining. Furthermore, it suggests that you are impulsive rather than deliberate in making a plan to make the best possible application for admission. Gonnif recommends skipping a cycle so you'd be applying in 2018 and then 2020 rather than 2018 and 2019 or take my advice and just applyi in 2019.

Your year of employment after graduation might make you an attractive applicant in 2019 after getting nothing in the 2018-2019 cycle but you'll still have the taint of being a reapplicant.

 

[Pooker_]

Having a failed cycle is emotionally draining as well as being financially draining. Furthermore, it suggests that you are impulsive rather than deliberate in making a plan to make the best possible application for admission. Gonnif recommends skipping a cycle so you'd be applying in 2018 and then 2020 rather than 2018 and 2019 or take my advice and just applyi in 2019.

Your year of employment after graduation might make you an attractive applicant in 2019 after getting nothing in the 2018-2019 cycle but you'll still have the taint of being a reapplicant.

Why is it looked down upon so much on when i accrue those hours? I understand the "box-checking" idea that they will have, but if I have 100hrs and counting and another applicant has 100hrs but has stopped volunteering, is that really looked at so differently? In my case I started late, but I'm actively doing it and continuing to do it.

 

[boogiecousins94]

Why is it looked down upon so much on when i accrue those hours? I understand the "box-checking" idea that they will have, but if I have 100hrs and counting and another applicant has 100hrs but has stopped volunteering, is that really looked at so differently? In my case I started late, but I'm actively doing it and continuing to do it.

Because once you submit the application you can stop volunteering and arguably nobody would know especially if you don't send update letters. The only difference is you say you are but whats stopping you from not volunteering anymore?

If you have only volunteered for a few months prior to AMCAS submission then and ADCOM can easily think of the box checking idea and that you may stop since it seems you did it just for applying (since you started so recent).

You can argue you didnt know you wanted to pursue medicine so thats why you started so late, but thats the whole point of people like @LizzyM telling you to take a gap year as you get more hours and the box-checking thought would hopefully not cross and adcoms mind

 

[Pooker_]

Because once you submit the application you can stop volunteering and arguably nobody would know especially if you don't send update letters. The only difference is you say you are but whats stopping you from not volunteering anymore?

If you have only volunteered for a few months prior to AMCAS submission then and ADCOM can easily think of the box checking idea and that you may stop since it seems you did it just for applying (since you started so recent).

You can argue you didnt know you wanted to pursue medicine so thats why you started so late, but thats the whole point of people like @LizzyM telling you to take a gap year as you get more hours and the box-checking thought would hopefully not cross and adcoms mind

I understand the future part that I could stop, but that would just concern the future hours not that 100hrs vs 100hrs. I had mentioned in an earlier post I wanted to practice as much hands on and clinical stuff as possible, which is why I was a PCA and did a lot of shadowing. I'm just wondering if that is a decent enough reason to justify why I waited until now. I can fully understand the advice of taking a year off to make my applicant as appealing as possible, but the only reason I personally could justify taking another year off is if I were to be doing something very significant to change my application (i.e. SMP). I appreciate the insight though, just trying to learn as much as I can going into this, which is another reason I lacked the hours. Nobody in my family, friends, etc has ever been a doctor so I'm learning this process as I go of what to do and unfortunately I'm learning a lot of what I "should" do too late. I didn't even know how important volunteering was until a month ago when I was looking at the MSAR, I was always under the impression my shadowing and clinical experience would suffice.

 

[calivianya]

Nobody in my family, friends, etc has ever been a doctor so I'm learning this process as I go of what to do and unfortunately I'm learning a lot of what I "should" do too late. I didn't even know how important volunteering was until a month ago when I was looking at the MSAR, I was always under the impression my shadowing and clinical experience would suffice.

It's almost worse knowing people who are doctors... I know a ton, and all of them thought I'd get multiple acceptances based on my work experience alone and have been very surprised to hear that I've had trouble getting even one MD acceptance. People who are already doctors applied in just about a different world. I was so confident in my application because of what I was told that I didn't even join SDN until I'd already submitted my primary.

You can always add the DO schools in later after you get an idea of how your MD cycle's going - you don't necessarily have to wait a cycle. I was complete at one DO program in mid-September - one of my physician colleagues' alma mater, the only one I was actually taking seriously at the time. I wasn't complete at the rest of them until mid-November, after I got my first MD post-II rejection. Being complete that late didn't hurt me at all.

 

[Pooker_]

It's almost worse knowing people who are doctors... I know a ton, and all of them thought I'd get multiple acceptances based on my work experience alone and have been very surprised to hear that I've had trouble getting even one MD acceptance. People who are already doctors applied in just about a different world. I was so confident in my application because of what I was told that I didn't even join SDN until I'd already submitted my primary.

You can always add the DO schools in later after you get an idea of how your MD cycle's going - you don't necessarily have to wait a cycle. I was complete at one DO program in mid-September - one of my physician colleagues' alma mater, the only one I was actually taking seriously at the time. I wasn't complete at the rest of them until mid-November, after I got my first MD post-II rejection. Being complete that late didn't hurt me at all.

Yeah, that is just more of my second option for me, which is why I plan to do that in my second cycle. If the reason I get denied this time is my EC's, those will be fixed by next cycle in which case I "should" be accepted. If the issue at that point is GPA (which can't be fixed) then that is where DO comes in.

 

[Goro]

Having a failed cycle is emotionally draining as well as being financially draining. Furthermore, it suggests that you are impulsive rather than deliberate in making a plan to make the best possible application for admission. Gonnif recommends skipping a cycle so you'd be applying in 2018 and then 2020 rather than 2018 and 2019 or take my advice and just applyi in 2019.

Your year of employment after graduation might make you an attractive applicant in 2019 after getting nothing in the 2018-2019 cycle but you'll still have the taint of being a reapplicant.

QFT.
It's not just the wise gonnif's advice, but also the advice from MULTIPLE medical schools.
OP, I can see you're dying to apply this cycle, but the schools don't need the donations.

Apply once with the best possible app.

 

[Gilakend]

What you start after January of the application year always looks like box checking. You won't even get the chance to talk about it becuase you are unlikely to be invited for interview.
Less than half of all applicants get even one offer of admission. You need to have a far better application in relation to others than you did to get into college.

You can list future hours as long as you start the activity before you apply. However, some adcoms are getting wise to the applicants who have done something for 5 hours and who plan to do another 95 (or 995) before matriculation. Those experiences are heavily discounted.

DO schoosl will be fine; they aren't looking for research experience and your grades and scores are in that ballpark. If you want to be employed and support yourself and research seems to be the best way to do that, go for it. It beats pulling espresso shots as a barista. But don't do it because you think it will look good on your application.

Some schools want a ton of clinical experience and you might be too light for those schools. (A few are looking for a year full-time.) Know before you apply what the school's expectations are for clinical experience.

Would you say the same is true for shadowing/clinical employment/something else? Or just volunteering?

 

[LizzyM]

Would you say the same is true for shadowing/clinical employment/something else? Or just volunteering?

It is true of everything... if you've been pre-med forever, you should be able to walk and chew gum, meaning you should also be able to start community service as a freshman (because you want to serve people as a doctor and you can't wait to start), clinical experience starting the summer after freshman year at the latest, and research experience starting the summer after sophomore year at the latest. Then you apply as a junior and you have a year or more of each activity. If you put off one of these things, you don't look like a competent multi-tasker or you look like you don't like one of the three activities which then leads to questions.

If you are serving as a volunteer, becuase you like to help people, and doing some other major, discover medicine late in college, the expectation is that you'll start checking things out and trying clinical exposure around the time you start taking o-chemistry. That means you'll have a year behind you before you take the MCAT and apply. Often people feel the need for a gap year to shore up research (full-time employment) or community service (full-time service is one option, or a paid experience with an underserved community e.g. Teach for America).

 

[ciestar]

Would you say the same is true for shadowing/clinical employment/something else? Or just volunteering?

It is true of everything... if you've been pre-med forever, you should be able to walk and chew gum, meaning you should also be able to start community service as a freshman (because you want to serve people as a doctor and you can't wait to start), clinical experience starting the summer after freshman year at the latest, and research experience starting the summer after sophomore year at the latest. Then you apply as a junior and you have a year or more of each activity. If you put off one of these things, you don't look like a competent multi-tasker or you look like you don't like one of the three activities which then leads to questions.

If you are serving as a volunteer, becuase you like to help people, and doing some other major, discover medicine late in college, the expectation is that you'll start checking things out and trying clinical exposure around the time you start taking o-chemistry. That means you'll have a year behind you before you take the MCAT and apply. Often people feel the need for a gap year to shore up research (full-time employment) or community service (full-time service is one option, or a paid experience with an underserved community e.g. Teach for America).

True, but I think most everyone looks past craming shadowing in at the last minute.

 

[br2pi5]

@LizzyM what about if you have had ~250 hours of shadowing (before university) but want to do clinical work (paid or volunteer) now. I would like to start scribing but I didn't know previous to this thread that I would run the risk of looking like I was checking boxes (starting it a few months before this app cycle because this gap year I've been focusing on non-clinical volunteering, studying for the MCAT, and working). I'd appreciate to know your opinion!

 

[LizzyM]

@LizzyM what about if you have had ~250 hours of shadowing (before university) but want to do clinical work (paid or volunteer) now. I would like to start scribing but I didn't know previous to this thread that I would run the risk of looking like I was checking boxes (starting it a few months before this app cycle because this gap year I've been focusing on non-clinical volunteering, studying for the MCAT, and working). I'd appreciate to know your opinion!

I don't really care when you shadowed. Some people will look down on too much shadowing as too much passivity and some will say you should have too many more recent experiences to have room for anything from HS. Do what you think is best in that regard.

Clinical work is essential. It may be paid or volunteer. Ideally, one had some clinical exposure before sitting for the MCAT (why would you take the MCAT without knowing what the career you are preparing for is all about).

Non-clinical volunteering is very, very good and some would say essential.

Paid employment is a necessity for some people and not everyone can find something in research or cilnical or community service or tutoring. C'est la vive.

 

[br2pi5]

I don't really care when you shadowed. Some people will look down on too much shadowing as too much passivity and some will say you should have too many more recent experiences to have room for anything from HS. Do what you think is best in that regard.

Clinical work is essential. It may be paid or volunteer. Ideally, one had some clinical exposure before sitting for the MCAT (why would you take the MCAT without knowing what the career you are preparing for is all about).

Non-clinical volunteering is very, very good and some would say essential.

Paid employment is a necessity for some people and not everyone can find something in research or cilnical or community service or tutoring. C'est la vive.

thank you!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You don't think it would be important to do any clinical volunteering if I have none? I thought ADCOMs would look down on having zero, so even if I were to only do this position temporarily.
I can't do volunteer firefighting anymore, at this age I'd have to go through the entire process of being certified legitimately -- so this isn't an option.
I may even be able to add in another volunteer position that is non-clinical -- do you have any recommendations as to what the best ones are?
My other concern is that at this point I feel like it just looks like I'm "checking boxes" so I want to find a solid thing to stick to, but something that I can also genuinely talk about in an interview.

You need clinical experience. It can be paid or volunteer. Since you already have more than enough paid clinical experience, don’t waste your time on clinical volunteering. That time is better spent doing non-clinical volunteering, which you also definitely need.