weird issue with professor, don't know what to do

[softy]

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long story short - last quarter, on the last day (day of the final) of orgo 1, i got into an...argument, i guess, about my final grade. he's generous enough to offer extra credit for attendance - it's not much, but it's something. i'd missed 2 classes which qualified me for an extra point. it might not be much, but it could mean the difference between an A or an A-, so i thought it was worth asking about.

now let me be clear, i was nothing but polite. i would never start a fight with a professor for any reason - i'm not stupid, i know the ball is always in their court. but for some reason or other, he viewed it as me trying to defy him or disrespect him, i'm not sure. he is foreign, so maybe culturally there was a misunderstanding. he actually ended up basically yelling at me in front of the entire class. i was totally shocked and just left.

i was even more shocked when i received my final grade a week later. i had an A going into the final, and it had dropped to a B. i checked my final grade, and he had given me a 69. let me just say, i had a 98 on the first midterm, a 96 on my second midterm, and 9/10's on all quizzes. so, you make your deductions. somehow i totally bombed a final that i felt pretty confident about?

i didn't want to piss him off more by challenging my final grade (and have him view me as trying to disrespect him again) because he was going to be teaching orgo 2 next quarter, so i let it go. i talked to some people about it and they said that if the worst that he did was give me a B, just to let it go. i wasn't happy because a 3.0 really drags down my gpa, but i decided they were right and i just dropped it. i apologized profusely after the "incident" and on the first day of the orgo 2, i apologized again. he smiled and claimed it was all "water under the bridge" and not to worry about it.

my first midterm, he graded completely wrong. i initially had a B. after class, i had to approach him and ask him why he marked several things wrong. i ended up with an A-. i should have gotten a higher grade, but i was tired of arguing and i did not want to push him too much. but the way he graded my exam was comical. i really think he thought i wouldn't pay too much attention and accept a false lower grade.

now every time i ask him a question, he either refuses to answer it, or responds in a slightly hostile and 100% unhelpful way. an example of an e-mail exchange, about the upcoming second midterm:

Hi Professor,

I just wanted to confirm with you that we will not need to know the mechanisms for Catalytic Hydrogenation, addition of Br2 and Cl2, hydroboration-oxidation and ozonolysis.

We only need to know the products, right?

Thank you,
****

his response?

Hi Ms. ****

The content of the exam was discussed in class.

****
the thing is, it wasn't. i know, because i go to every class and i'm attentive the entire time. he went over the general topics that will be covered, but not this specifically. how hard would it have been for him to say "yes" or "no"? and this is just one example.

the quarter is almost over, thank God, but it's just so stressful to have to sort of battle my way through class because my professor holds this grudge against me. i feel like there's nothing i can do but accept my fate and the possibility of getting another B in orgo. i would be fine with it if it were the grade i truly deserved, but it's not. i know and understand the material. i had an A in chem 1 and an A+ in chem 2. orgo is actually easier for me than gen chem, but you wouldn't know it if you looked at my transcript.

any advice? anything i could possibly do?

thank you.

 

[BLACKMD]

This is for the dean to handle.

 

[KindofBlue]

It's a bit hard to understand exactly what's going on by just reading your post alone I think.
It seems unclear to me exactly how you approached him about the issues; although you say you were being polite, in reality you might have been emitting an air of arrogance or defiance in the eyes of the professor. On the other hand, it is possible that he is just a total nut case.

If all your fellow classmates and friends are advising you against raising an issue, I would follow the advice. A B+ on Ochem is pretty good IMO, and especially so if you run the risk of further alienating yourself from the professor.
But yes if what you're suggesting is correct (improper/unfair grading), it is definitely an issue that should be brought to the dean's attention.
If you are allowed to review the exams yourself, I would do that, if not, have it re-graded by someone other than the professor.

[edit] you wrote in the e-mail that you were "confirming" that you will not need to know about the mechanism, but if he never mentioned that how could you have confirmed?

 

[KYTopgun]

I disagree with the above post. You should bring this to the dean. Bring the dean email records and if I were you request to see your final to make sure it was graded correctly. There seems to be a bias here. You should get the grades you deserve, not bias grade.

 

[softy]

It's a bit hard to understand exactly what's going on by just reading your post alone I think.
It seems unclear to me exactly how you approached him about the issues; although you say you were being polite, in reality you might have been emitting an air of arrogance or defiance in the eyes of the professor. On the other hand, it is possible that he is just a total nut case.

If all your fellow classmates and friends are advising you against raising an issue, I would follow the advice. A B+ on Ochem is pretty good IMO, and especially so if you run the risk of further alienating yourself from the professor.
But yes if what you're suggesting is correct (improper/unfair grading), it is definitely an issue that should be brought to the dean's attention.
If you are allowed to review the exams yourself, I would do that, if not, have it re-graded by someone other than the professor.

[edit] you wrote in the e-mail that you were "confirming" that you will not need to know about the mechanism, but if he never mentioned that how could you have confirmed?

hi,

sorry for not being clear. he uses the lectures slides of the main organic chemistry professor. on those lecture slides, there is a note that says we are not responsible for the mechanisms. but i was doing practice problems in the book and some of them required us to know the mechanisms, so i became unsure and just wanted to double check.

i definitely considered the possibility that maybe i came off the wrong way, that's why i apologized twice after. i said i was sincerely sorry if i had offended him in any way and that it was not my intention to be disrespectful. the first time i wrote an e-mail and the second time i said it in person. when he smiled and told me everything was good, i believed him.

i considered going to the dean, but every time i think about it i feel like it would sound so petulant. and i don't want things to get even MORE complicated, seeing as i still have one more midterm and a final to go, and have him hate me even more for "telling" on him. i'm mentally preparing myself for another B so i don't get upset again. i did consider contacting the main organic chemistry professor and having him take a look at my exams, but again, i don't want my current professor to feel like i disrespected him by going around his authority.

i was wondering if there was any way i could explain these B's on my medical school transcript - but then i guess it would sound kind of stupid?

 

[KindofBlue]

I've had straight B+ s all 3 quarters of Ochem, no one mentioned anything about them in my 3 interviews.
I'm sure during the screening process someone might take note of that, but the overall consensus on SDN seems to be that most adcoms take into consideration the difficulty of Ochem.

To go back to your problem, do you have access to your past exams? Do you get them back, or at least get to see them? It seems you are not able to do so, so I think the best way would be to ask the dean a general question about re-grading/unfair grading without specifying which professor and see where to go from there.

[edit]
Also, a lot of schools give you a chance to explain why there was a lapse in grades etc in secondaries. If the lowest grade you received throughout college is a B, however, I really doubt you'll need to utilize this section.

 

[Ismet]

sorry for not being clear. he uses the lectures slides of the main organic chemistry professor. on those lecture slides, there is a note that says we are not responsible for the mechanisms. but i was doing practice problems in the book and some of them required us to know the mechanisms, so i became unsure and just wanted to double check.

It really wasn't necessary to email him asking if you needed to know the mechanisms. If all your questions are similar to that, I can see how he could get annoyed. Most professors would still politely respond and clarify, but there are always those "hostile" professors who seem to hate interacting with students. My advice for dealing with him for the remainder of the semester is to only ask him a question if absolutely necessary. Ask your classmates before you ask him. My biochem professor in undergrad had a policy of "ask 3 before me" so she didn't get inundated with hundreds of emails asking petty questions.

As for the actual grade dilemma, bring it up with the dean.

 

[radiogoogoo]

his email seems fine to me. maybe you are reading too much into it

 

[wholeheartedly]

It's really hard to say what's going on here. I've seen students completely lacking in insight come across very poorly when dealing with stuff like this. On the other hand I've definitely seen a few profs and the like with such god complexes that any disagreement or polite questioning is taken as an attack on them. And it wouldn't surprise if someone did retaliate or behave in a biased manner.

You should be able to view your exams to at least see what you did wrong. If you actually get them back, and things look really questionable, take it another chem professor you've worked well with and trust and just say, "I feel like I'm missing something here. Can you take a look at this with me?" If that prof goes over the exam with you and notices serious sketchiness, you might get some good advice on what approach to take given what they know as faculty about your instructor, the dean, and any relevant departmental politics. Just don't go in accusing your instructor of bias etc or the other prof won't want to get involved.

If you really don't have hard evidence it's going to be hard for the dean to help much even if they want to. You might just hae to let it go even if it sucks.

 

[911 Turbo]

This is for the dean to handle.

this, go straight to the dean with all the evidence you have.

 

[hubriz]

long story short - last quarter, on the last day (day of the final) of orgo 1, i got into an...argument, i guess, about my final grade. he's generous enough to offer extra credit for attendance - it's not much, but it's something. i'd missed 2 classes which qualified me for an extra point. it might not be much, but it could mean the difference between an A or an A-, so i thought it was worth asking about.

now let me be clear, i was nothing but polite. i would never start a fight with a professor for any reason - i'm not stupid, i know the ball is always in their court. but for some reason or other, he viewed it as me trying to defy him or disrespect him, i'm not sure. he is foreign, so maybe culturally there was a misunderstanding. he actually ended up basically yelling at me in front of the entire class. i was totally shocked and just left.

i was even more shocked when i received my final grade a week later. i had an A going into the final, and it had dropped to a B. i checked my final grade, and he had given me a 69. let me just say, i had a 98 on the first midterm, a 96 on my second midterm, and 9/10's on all quizzes. so, you make your deductions. somehow i totally bombed a final that i felt pretty confident about?

i didn't want to piss him off more by challenging my final grade (and have him view me as trying to disrespect him again) because he was going to be teaching orgo 2 next quarter, so i let it go. i talked to some people about it and they said that if the worst that he did was give me a B, just to let it go. i wasn't happy because a 3.0 really drags down my gpa, but i decided they were right and i just dropped it. i apologized profusely after the "incident" and on the first day of the orgo 2, i apologized again. he smiled and claimed it was all "water under the bridge" and not to worry about it.

my first midterm, he graded completely wrong. i initially had a B. after class, i had to approach him and ask him why he marked several things wrong. i ended up with an A-. i should have gotten a higher grade, but i was tired of arguing and i did not want to push him too much. but the way he graded my exam was comical. i really think he thought i wouldn't pay too much attention and accept a false lower grade.

now every time i ask him a question, he either refuses to answer it, or responds in a slightly hostile and 100% unhelpful way. an example of an e-mail exchange, about the upcoming second midterm:

Hi Professor,

I just wanted to confirm with you that we will not need to know the mechanisms for Catalytic Hydrogenation, addition of Br2 and Cl2, hydroboration-oxidation and ozonolysis.

We only need to know the products, right?

Thank you,
****

his response?

Hi Ms. ****

The content of the exam was discussed in class.

****
the thing is, it wasn't. i know, because i go to every class and i'm attentive the entire time. he went over the general topics that will be covered, but not this specifically. how hard would it have been for him to say "yes" or "no"? and this is just one example.

the quarter is almost over, thank God, but it's just so stressful to have to sort of battle my way through class because my professor holds this grudge against me. i feel like there's nothing i can do but accept my fate and the possibility of getting another B in orgo. i would be fine with it if it were the grade i truly deserved, but it's not. i know and understand the material. i had an A in chem 1 and an A+ in chem 2. orgo is actually easier for me than gen chem, but you wouldn't know it if you looked at my transcript.

any advice? anything i could possibly do?

thank you.

If you feel that you are being treated unfairly after speaking with the professor, the proper course of action is to speak with the Department Chair. It would not be appropriate or well received to go beyond the Department Chair for this matter.

Out of curiosity, why were you not compelled to take action when you suspected your professor improperly graded your Orgo 1 final? You could have retrieved and reviewed your exam to confirm your suspicion without explicitly bringing into question his grading.

Good luck.

 

[KYTopgun]

If you feel that you are being treated unfairly after speaking with the professor, the proper course of action is to speak with the Department Chair. It would not be appropriate or well received to go beyond the Department Chair for this matter.

Out of curiosity, why were you not compelled to take action when you suspected your professor improperly graded your Orgo 1 final? You could have retrieved and reviewed your exam to confirm your suspicion without explicitly bringing into question his grading.

Good luck.

100% Agree with this post. This was your first mistake and led you down this road.

 

[Goro]

And his Dep't Chair. Don't take this sitting down.

This is for the dean to handle.

 

[orangeman25]

You definitely will want to get this mess figured out. Don't let it slide. It may just be one B, but if you deserve an A, this isn't fair. A couple semesters later, this could come back and bite your science gpa in the behind - and you don't want that. If I were you, I would use my whole arsenal.

 

[Quizlet04]

Get a copy of your final exam from last semester. He should, as per policies for most schools, have kept it. Take a look at the grading and go from there. I can't make a judgment any other way.

 

[softy]

If you feel that you are being treated unfairly after speaking with the professor, the proper course of action is to speak with the Department Chair. It would not be appropriate or well received to go beyond the Department Chair for this matter.

Out of curiosity, why were you not compelled to take action when you suspected your professor improperly graded your Orgo 1 final? You could have retrieved and reviewed your exam to confirm your suspicion without explicitly bringing into question his grading.

Good luck.

believe me, i wanted to. i was shocked, furious, upset, etc. but he was teaching the next quarter of orgo. say an official school investigation opened up - i'm still attending lecture every week and he's still in charge of grading my exams (and would probably hate me even more) and i felt like it would have just gotten messy. i thought if i just let it go, he would move on and we could start fresh. not to mention, everyone i talked to told me not to push my professor anymore in order to not risk my orgo 2 grade as well.

we didn't receive our finals back, i probably would have had to make a special request. i was walking on eggshells already and i didn't want to step on anymore of his toes by bothering him.

 

[KYTopgun]

If you are afraid of upsetting a professor who wronged you, how are you going to run a business? Talk with insurance companies on a patients behalf? In the nicest way possible Im saying stand up for yourself and gain some confidence. Your are not in the wrong, you should fight for whats right.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

I had a chem professor freshman year who seemed like he hated premeds. He decided to curve on a C- and fail 40% of the class because he said our class needed some weeding out. Our average without a curve was a C+, which was much higher than the two classes being taught by the other two professors who used the same final as our professor. Anyways all 300+ of us emailed the dean/department chair because we figured we had nothing to lose and they forced him to recurve the class. So yeah, it never hurts to try. We probably had less of a right to try than you do right now as well.

 

[anbuitachi]

Orgo isn't that subjective. Ask to see your final exam. If he doesn't let you.. then theres a problem and Go straight to the dean

 

[Zelda840]

Did you take the ACS final or was it one that your teacher wrote?

 

[softy]

Did you take the ACS final or was it one that your teacher wrote?

it was a final that he wrote.

here is an example from my last midterm:

"briefly state zaitsev's rule, using twenty words or less."

i wrote, "in an e2 elimination reaction, the major product is the more stable alkene." for those of you at ucla, this is word for word from the lecture supplement. however, i got the entire question wrong - not even half credit. he said that he was looking for "highly substituted". i argued that it was the same thing - more stable means more substituted! - not to mention, it's exactly what the book says. he kept insisting that's what he was looking for and that's why my answer is wrong. this is the sort of crap i'm talking about. am i in the wrong?

the girl who sat next to me wrote a COMPLETELY wrong answer - she stated markovnikov's rule instead - but because she had the words "highly substituted" in her answer, she got full credit. the problem is, i don't want to screw her over by bringing it up, so i'm not. but it's frustrating.

 

[CollegeGirl94]

it was a final that he wrote.

here is an example from my last midterm:

"briefly state zaitsev's rule, using twenty words or less."

i wrote, "in an e2 elimination reaction, the major product is the more stable alkene." for those of you at ucla, this is word for word from the lecture supplement. however, i got the entire question wrong - not even half credit. he said that he was looking for "highly substituted". i argued that it was the same thing - more stable means more substituted! - not to mention, it's exactly what the book says. he kept insisting that's what he was looking for and that's why my answer is wrong. this is the sort of crap i'm talking about. am i in the wrong?

the girl who sat next to me wrote a COMPLETELY wrong answer - she stated markovnikov's rule instead - but because she had the words "highly substituted" in her answer, she got full credit. the problem is, i don't want to screw her over by bringing it up, so i'm not. but it's frustrating.

Guess he's really picky, but from my quarter of Orgo, more substituted = more stable in general. Did you not get any points for that?

EDIT: Oh I see, wow.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Be careful. Schools protect their own. Best you can do is ask to be dropped without penalty. Take it at a CC if you have to.