Weird question, but can I get disciplined or dismissed for this?

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DermViser said:
The ones who go for AMSA officer positions are the same douches who go for student govt. in high school. It's to put their name on something for the CV. Which I'm perfectly fine with, however, they then cloak it in actually wanting to change things, when they have no intention of doing so. The brownnosing begins early on for them and do it for perceived advantage to get a residency.

They SAY they want to represent students when it comes to bringing up concerns re: grading policy, etc. but in actuality, it's more just a way for them to continue to kiss butt of administrators. They lie and speak the company line officially the entire way, right up until MS-4 to get what they want. You can do a lot when you can waste money from the med school's credit card to go for AMSA conventions.
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Eh I'd say significant amounts of them buy the crap they're selling too. Not literally but the ideas I mean.
 
PL198 said:
Eh I'd say significant amounts of them buy the crap they're selling too. Not literally but the ideas I mean.
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I'm ok if they actually believe it. At least they're being honest, although a little wet behind the ears. It's the ones that say they believe it and are calculating underneath which are the ones that tick me off - the ones who say how great and important Primary Care is and how everyone should do it on their AMSA megaphone, while doing Ophtho research in the background.
 
I don't get it? Some idiot girl is taking a meaningless extra curricular group so super cereal that she is going to report you for not answering an email? I don't see how you can get in trouble for that, unless there is something in your Student Code of Conduct or other regs that says you are expected to check and respond to emails regularly, even from annoying try-hard gunner trash that think med school extra curricular groups are equivalent to the Bilderberg Group.


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JP2740 said:
He has an obligation to answer emails from this ******* twit chick? Is that in the med school guide? There's some classmates if they emailed me 1000x I wouldn't answer. Mainly because I'd delete it if I simply saw their name.
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Exactly Every other day one of the EC narcissists sends 10 emails out about their trashy group, in every case their signature line details everything theyre involved in, have done, will do and everything except the color and consistency of their last bowel movement. If we had to respond to every one of their stupid emails or get kicked out, our entire class would be on antidepressant doses high enough to give an elephant serotonin syndrome.


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Mass Effect said:
I think you have a very tenuous grasp on reality, frankly. An email such as the one you suggest would damage the student's reputation in a profession where one can't afford to have their reputation tarnished for such things as implied mental instability, harassment, and stalking. You think the school is going to just brush off such an accusation? We're not in grade school anymore. This kind of thing is what ends up in Dean's letters and ends your chances for residency, if you're even allowed to continue without a psychological evaluation. I don't know of a soul who would lay down and take it and not fight back with one hell of a legal defense. And you also greatly underestimate the power of common sense. The story simply isn't logical and plenty of people will see through it. All they have to do is nail down the OP on a specific date and time one of these so-called incidents happened and if the girl was somewhere else that she can prove, the OP is screwed, not to mention the fact that this "buddy" he trusts could easily roll over when lawyers start breathing down his neck. People are successfully sued for slander every single day and the guilty ones who get away with it are the ones who are loaded and can afford the sleaziest lawyers in America to fight their battle for them. Bottom line, your posts are nothing short of irresponsible and if the OP takes your suggestion, he is asking to not only be dismissed but to face one hell of a career-ending lawsuit on top of it.
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Speaking as a (former) lawyer, I have to say this scenario would play out much more like the version mass effect is describing, rather than operaman. operamans version is more entertaining, but only works out that way on TV. In real life lawyers and PIs get involved and these houses of cards tumble pretty readily. There are probably a few pathological liars and scam artist/confidence men out there who maybe could pull it off, but most use their "talents" for bigger scores and are just pictures on your post office wall, not students in med school.

The bigger concern I have is with the OP. I'm picturing a guy who doesn't return calls on his pager. Theres always a resident like this, and its sometimes a career killer (if not a patient killer). A guy who won't return an email in weeks because of the hassle is going to have a real hard time responding in 5-10 minutes to the up to 50 pages he may get each night during intern year. So yes, it's not a stretch to suggest that this SECOND incident should perhaps be looked at as a big red flag. Which is why I think if the MS2 reports it, it actully might make it into OPs jacket.
 
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cbrons said:
Exactly Every other day one of the EC narcissists sends 10 emails out about their trashy group, in every case their signature line details everything theyre involved in, have done, will do and everything except the color and consistency of their last bowel movement. If we had to respond to every one of their stupid emails or get kicked out, our entire class would be on antidepressant doses high enough to give an elephant serotonin syndrome.
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]
He took an officer role in the organization and she actually needs paperwork and materials from him to get this organization going again. It's not the same as unsolicited emails from clubs. It's no longer optional for him to delete and ignore emails related to this club. Plus this guy has already been explicitly warned by the dean regarding not being responsive on email. So yeah, it's totally different than what you are describing.
 
Law2Doc said:
Speaking as a (former) lawyer, I have to say this scenario would play out much more like the version mass effect is describing, rather than operaman. operamans version is more entertaining, but only works out that way on TV. In real life lawyers and PIs get involved and these houses of cards tumble pretty readily. There are probably a few pathological liars and scam artist/confidence men out there who maybe could pull it off, but most use their "talents" for bigger scores and are just pictures on your post office wall, not students in med school.

The bigger concern I have is with the OP. I'm picturing a guy who doesn't return calls on his pager. Theres always a resident like this, and its sometimes a career killer (if not a patient killer). A guy who won't return an email in weeks because of the hassle is going to have a real hard time responding in 5-10 minutes to the up to 50 pages he may get each night during intern year. So yes, it's not a stretch to suggest that this SECOND incident should perhaps be looked at as a big red flag. Which is why I think if the MS2 reports it, it actully might make it into OPs jacket.
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Unless she was actually dismissed from school and had nothing to lose, I still feel the odds of the MS2 funding a lawsuit out of her own pocket over the next 2-3 years it takes to get to trial are pretty slim. Lawyers and PIs cost $$$ as you well know, and since nobody would take her case on contingency unless they thought they could argue negligence on the part of the institution, she would have to fund that herself. I guess the trick would be to make the allegations subtle and fact-based enough that she wouldn't actually get dismissed from school AND based enough in reality that OP would be safe in the event of a defamation suit if one did occur. I really don't think it would take much to freak this girl out and make her back down. Even if something got placed in her MSPE, I think she'll have a hard time proving and quantifying damages assuming she secures some residency somewhere; even from a low-ranked program, she would still come out drawing a high salary on par with physicians from the top programs.

All that said, 100% agree that people who don't return emails/pages are a big problem. We actually had a resident dismissed for exactly that. It's also a pet peeve of mine -- I've actually had someone tell me he didn't see my email yet while simultaneously checking his email on his iPhone!

I guess the beauty of it all is that if the OP doesn't have the stones to answer this girl's email to begin with, he definitely won't have the stones to go after her for harassment.
 
operaman said:
Unless she was actually dismissed from school and had nothing to lose, I still feel the odds of the MS2 funding a lawsuit out of her own pocket over the next 2-3 years it takes to get to trial are pretty slim. Lawyers and PIs cost $$$ as you well know, and since nobody would take her case on contingency unless they thought they could argue negligence on the part of the institution, she would have to fund that herself. I guess the trick would be to make the allegations subtle and fact-based enough that she wouldn't actually get dismissed from school AND based enough in reality that OP would be safe in the event of a defamation suit if one did occur. I really don't think it would take much to freak this girl out and make her back down. Even if something got placed in her MSPE, I think she'll have a hard time proving and quantifying damages assuming she secures some residency somewhere; even from a low-ranked program, she would still come out drawing a high salary on par with physicians from the top programs.

All that said, 100% agree that people who don't return emails/pages are a big problem. We actually had a resident dismissed for exactly that. It's also a pet peeve of mine -- I've actually had someone tell me he didn't see my email yet while simultaneously checking his email on his iPhone!

I guess the beauty of it all is that if the OP doesn't have the stones to answer this girl's email to begin with, he definitely won't have the stones to go after her for harassment.
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First, not all med students are from poor families or families without lawyers. For all you know her cousin is a big name lawyer who will do this for free. Second, falsely acusing someone of something like this is potentially a tort that could be a contingency fee case. If the dude has $10,000 to his name, it still could be worth a couple hours of a lawyers time for a chance to pocket 1/3.
 
operaman said:
Thank you 🙂

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. I would construct a theoretical timeline beginning with the initial email as point of first contact. Then create a story about in person meetings, her saying things like "we should run this together -- wouldn't we be a great team?" etc. Then her asking you in person to come over to her place to have a few drinks and talk about the group and you turning her down. You told her that you had a significant other back home but she kept pushing saying "well she's not here, is she." Then you told her in no uncertain terms that you weren't interested and that she needed to stop talking to you. If she wrote additional emails, hopefully the content will jive with this story and your lack of response was simply your trying to get away from a bad situation. Then, the story goes, she started showing up randomly at places you would be, when you were out with friends, etc. She would get drunk and make passes at you. Recently she's starting even making veiled threats about reporting YOU for severe unprofessionalism if you kept ignoring her advances.

I would make sure the timeline and any emails she sent fit like a glove. Then I would pre-emptively report HER. If you have a buddy who you trust implicitly, have him vouch for one of the inappropriate encounters. Otherwise, nobody can know you're making this up or you're hosed. Any report she makes, the school will view as a squabble among students and it won't go anywhere at all. At best, they may even end up putting something in HER file.

Should be fairly easy to make it work. If you want to really do it and need help, PM me the emails and dates and I'll help you tell a whopper of a story.
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As much as I enjoyed reading that post, that WOULD be a career-ending move. There's no way anybody with half a brain wouldn't be able to tear his story to shreds and/or break him down. That said, I'm all for teaching the cow a lesson.

colbgw02 said:
I love SDN so much.

Seriously, give yourselves a round of applause.
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You, on the other hand, disappoint.

I expected you to provide the cherry.
 

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OP, just take my advice. Resign and then call her a **** to her face. Do it off school grounds, though.
 
Law2Doc said:
First, not all med students are from poor families or families without lawyers. For all you know her cousin is a big name lawyer who will do this for free. Second, falsely acusing someone of something like this is potentially a tort that could be a contingency fee case. If the dude has $10,000 to his name, it still could be worth a couple hours of a lawyers time for a chance to pocket 1/3.
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This is why I married someone who is a lot smarter and levelheaded than me. She keeps my hair-brained ideas in some semblance of check. I still think I would pre-emptively go after the girl if threatened, but probably keep any allegations or insinuations to things that are supported by her emails or very clearly stated as my opinion and interpretation of them.

My original idea is much more entertaining though!

Maybe you could still get the effect by replying to her threatening email with the whole shebang, allegations of romantic interest, please stop harassing me, etc, but CC the email to a phony email for the dean and not the real one. Maybe invert a couple letters so it's a non-existent mailbox; only the OP would get the system-generated "failed to deliver" notice, but the MS2 may not realize the dean never even saw the allegations. Hopefully she'd be freaked out but no damage done to her career. Unless she barges in to the dean's office to deny the crazy allegations that were never actually made....
 
Law2Doc said:
Speaking as a (former) lawyer, I have to say this scenario would play out much more like the version mass effect is describing, rather than operaman. operamans version is more entertaining, but only works out that way on TV. In real life lawyers and PIs get involved and these houses of cards tumble pretty readily. There are probably a few pathological liars and scam artist/confidence men out there who maybe could pull it off, but most use their "talents" for bigger scores and are just pictures on your post office wall, not students in med school.

The bigger concern I have is with the OP. I'm picturing a guy who doesn't return calls on his pager. Theres always a resident like this, and its sometimes a career killer (if not a patient killer). A guy who won't return an email in weeks because of the hassle is going to have a real hard time responding in 5-10 minutes to the up to 50 pages he may get each night during intern year. So yes, it's not a stretch to suggest that this SECOND incident should perhaps be looked at as a big red flag. Which is why I think if the MS2 reports it, it actully might make it into OPs jacket.
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if you and Dr. Dahle could somehow collab on a blog or postings or you ever made a similar site but for law, I'd read the **** out of that.
 
Find someone else who wants this leadership position. Turn it over to that person. Email Dean that you have done this. Bizzach left out in the cold. You'll find some ms1 sucker to take it on. Easy game.

Oh, and see a shrink. That sort of irrational behavior is gonna get you fired come internship.


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Just finished watching the series finale of Breaking Bad. Operaman, if medicine doesn't work out for you, would you consider Chemistry?
 
circulus vitios said:
No, the four letter word that hits like lightning.
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never understood why using that word is like avada kedavra. Really stupid concept

That phrase is hilarious though and I will absolutely use it in the future.
 
PL198 said:
never understood why using that word is like avada kedavra. Really stupid concept

That phrase is hilarious though and I will absolutely use it in the future.
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Yes, I've never understood why that particular word brings such bad anger from women either. I know they don't like the p-word either, but that might be just the women I know.
 
PL198 said:
never understood why using that word is like avada kedavra. Really stupid concept

That phrase is hilarious though and I will absolutely use it in the future.
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It's our trump card. The nuclear option, I guess. :laugh:
 
DermViser said:
Yes, I've never understood why that particular word brings such bad anger from women either. I know they don't like the p-word either, but that might be just the women I know.
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depends on the situation 😉
 
Gastrapathy said:
Find someone else who wants this leadership position. Turn it over to that person. Email Dean that you have done this. Bizzach left out in the cold. You'll find some ms1 sucker to take it on. Easy game.

Oh, and see a shrink. That sort of irrational behavior is gonna get you fired come internship.


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Haha now THIS is good advice.

Find some eager M1, then email the crazy M2 and say - "Oh, I'm so sorry. Johnny M1 actually approached me a while ago about leading up this group and I gave it over to him. I didn't realize you were interested!"
 
Gastrapathy said:
Find someone else who wants this leadership position. Turn it over to that person. Email Dean that you have done this. Bizzach left out in the cold. You'll find some ms1 sucker to take it on. Easy game.

Oh, and see a shrink. That sort of irrational behavior is gonna get you fired come internship.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
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Okay. This. Do this.
 
holy hell this is too good, machievel would be proud.
 
The thought that you could get seriously disciplined for this just seems ludicrous to me...yeah, you should have responded to her and should be better about checking your emails. But I'd say just do what Gastrapathy said, and then tell this girl to go study for step 1 or something instead of wasting everyone's time.
 
saudades said:
The thought that you could get seriously disciplined for this just seems ludicrous to me...yeah, you should have responded to her and should be better about checking your emails. But I'd say just do what Gastrapathy said, and then tell this girl to go study for step 1 or something instead of wasting everyone's time.
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I got reprimanded on unprofessional behavior for taking care of patients and lies.... So, yes, it's possible.
 
Kaustikos said:
I got reprimanded on unprofessional behavior for taking care of patients and lies.... So, yes, it's possible.
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Well, when patients are involved it's a whole different story. This is just some student group. Not saying he won't get in trouble, just that to me it doesn't seem significant enough to warrant any severe discipline.
 
saudades said:
Well, when patients are involved it's a whole different story. This is just some student group. Not saying he won't get in trouble, just that to me it doesn't seem significant enough to warrant any severe discipline.
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Medical schools expect you to behave "professionally" in all aspects of your school life. Some even go far as to talk about outside of school (i.e. drinking at a bar while wearing scrubs, for example), but usually that just gets a bunch of eye rolls and move on.

It's irrelevant whether it had to do with patient care or not. Schools are getting quite heavy handed about professionalism violations, right or wrong, bc apparently the literature has shown that people that have professionalism issues in medical school have been shown to have a greater risk of being disciplined by a medical board. Yes, I realize that an overzealous academic can make the statistics/data say anything they want it to say, to make a name for themselves in academia, but that's not the point.

Just look at the recent medical student at University of Washington who was selling her virginity for money.
 
DermViser said:
Medical schools expect you to behave "professionally" in all aspects of your school life. Some even go far as to talk about outside of school (i.e. drinking at a bar while wearing scrubs, for example), but usually that just gets a bunch of eye rolls and move on.

It's irrelevant whether it had to do with patient care or not. Schools are getting quite heavy handed about professionalism violations, right or wrong, bc apparently the literature has shown that people that have professionalism issues in medical school have been shown to have a greater risk of being disciplined by a medical board. Yes, I realize that an overzealous academic can make the statistics/data say anything they want it to say, to make a name for themselves in academia, but that's not the point.

Just look at the recent medical student at University of Washington who was selling her virginity for money.
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I don't see why that's an issue.
 
saudades said:
Well, when patients are involved it's a whole different story. This is just some student group. Not saying he won't get in trouble, just that to me it doesn't seem significant enough to warrant any severe discipline.
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You missed the point. I was disciplined for something I didn't do.
 
Kaustikos said:
You missed the point. I was disciplined for something I didn't do.
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Oh, I see--I thought you meant you were disciplined for lying haha. But yeah, I think it's important that OP sticks up for himself here but should also accept responsibility. Apologize, turn over the group stuff, move on and just don't let it happen again.
 
I think my plan is the best, focusing on your med career alone is bs, you have to build relations.
 
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