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Were can i find the med school LizzyM score

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by muja786, May 4, 2007.

  1. muja786

    muja786 2+ Year Member

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    tried searchin for it, seen plenty of posts talkin about how it works, was wondering were the list was of these schools with the "LizzyM" scores. Thanks
     
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  3. Catalystik

    Catalystik Providing herd protection Physician Faculty SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Inside the tesseract
    To calculate your LizzyM scores: gpa(10)+MCAT. Compare to the medical school's LizzyM score for their matriculants (get this data from the MSAR and calculate it yourself): their average gpa(10)+their average MCAT-1. Look for schools that have LizzyM scores that are equal to or less than your LizzyM score.
     
  4. spicedmanna

    spicedmanna Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    ^ Precisely. To find the raw numbers to use in the calculation for each school you are interested in applying, find a copy of the AAMC MSAR at your local premed office or buy it online at:

    http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/msar.htm
     
  5. frickonastick

    frickonastick 2+ Year Member

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    Just a clarification question, to do this we use the median MCAT provided in the MSAR, right? Since it doesn't state the average... :confused:
     
  6. 45408

    45408 aw buddy 7+ Year Member

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    You know you're on SDN when.....
     
  7. Funky

    Funky This space is for sale 10+ Year Member

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    You read things like "Lizzy Score".
     
  8. yellowfeverdude

    yellowfeverdude Banned Banned

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    Hi, what da hell is LizzyM Score?
     
  9. Catalystik

    Catalystik Providing herd protection Physician Faculty SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Yes. My error.
     
  10. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    C'est moi!

    I came up with this about a year ago as a way to compare an applicant's stats with a schools average stats. (BTW, median is one way of measuring "average", which is a measure of central tendency. Mean and mode are other ways to describe "average").

    Your Lizzy score: your gpa(10)+ MCAT.
    A school's LizzyM score (M for medical ;) ) avg gpa(10) + MCAT - 1.

    If school that has a LizzyM score greater than your Lizzy score is a "reach". Most schools on your list should have LizzyM scores that are equal or less than your Lizzy score.
     
  11. Catalystik

    Catalystik Providing herd protection Physician Faculty SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Lizzy M is a member of an admissions committee for an unknown-to-us ,very-competitve medical school. She gives advice to SDN folks about application issues in the Semi-Solicited Advice sticky at the top of the pre-allo page. She suggests you use the Lizzy M score to help decide if you should apply to a given medical school, based on your personal statistics. It helps you decide how competitive you will be.
     
  12. etf

    etf Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    or the ULTIMATE troll!
     
  13. jochi1543

    jochi1543 President, Gunner Central 2+ Year Member

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    MDApps:
    Alternatively, you could use the Jochi1543 score: Multiply your crappy stats by 10, look at the MSAR, cry, and apply EVERYWHERE in hopes of securing an acceptance wherever.
     
    Avicenna likes this.
  14. Ari Gold

    Ari Gold ..... 5+ Year Member

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    wow i've never seen this much self-promoting repetition of one's own name outside of a rap/hip-hop video. i'm surprised you didnt call yourself 'lizzylicious'

    i've seen that rule of thumb around as long as i can remember. my freshman pre-med advisor told us about it and i've seen it in some of those application books. how can you actually claim naming rights??

    so can i call dibs on the rights to 'shoot for atleast double digits in each mcat section' or 'apply only to schools that you would go to if that was your only acceptance'?
     
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  15. bubbachuck

    bubbachuck Fear denies faith 10+ Year Member

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    I like the extra "-1" constant...makes it sound more scientific

    seriously...why the "-1"?
     
  16. Surf Rx

    Surf Rx 7+ Year Member

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    Geeze Ari. Let's hug it out.
     
    Avicenna likes this.
  17. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Bear in mind that numerical stats are only part of the picture (often not the determinative part after the initial few rounds of screening and interviewing). Plenty of people who have decent "LizzyM" scores won't get in due to essay, EC, LOR, or interview reasons, and quite a few with not as good such scores will. This is not an objective process (at any school), and seeking an objective rule of thumb, although perhaps giving some comfort, will not really tell you if you have a shot, IMHO.
     
  18. postbacker

    postbacker Banned Banned

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    I see the LizzyM score as more of an indicator of "will my primary app get screened" rather than "will I be accepted at school X."

    In her examples in the adcom thread, Lizzy, in her role as an adcom member of a highly ranked med school, said that she compares an applicant's LizzyM score to the average of the most recently admitted class. She said that average LizzyM scores at her school have migrated in recent years from the high 60s to the low 70s.

    I assume that she uses the score as sort of a screening device - she has also said that she has a GPA screen floor of around 3.4 (+/-), so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the average MCAT she is looking for in an applicant.

    Whether I am comforted by this information or not, I do find it useful for developing a list of schools to apply to and using it the way she suggests (i.e., don't overload your app list with schools where you are below the LizzyM line). Common sense? Sure, but just look at some of the mdapp profiles where people did not do this and look at their results...
     
  19. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Because you can get away with being a hair's breadth below a school's average MCAT or gpa and still have a shot.
     
  20. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Roughly speaking this is correct. With a 3.4, I'd be looking for a MCAT of 35 or 36. For an applicant with a 3.95, I be happy with a MCAT of 30 or 31 (but balanced). Once I'm satisfied that the academic stats are OK, the likelihood of being recommended for interviewed goes from ~25% to ~50%. There is still the possibility that specifics deeper within the application (a bunch of Ws protecting the gpa, lack of experiences, poor PS, bad LOR) will scuttle the application.

    Precisely. The score doesn't say "you'll get in" it just says, you have a good shot at getting an interview (when you figure that some schools interview<15% of all applicants....).
     
  21. lynn623la

    lynn623la Senior Member 2+ Year Member

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    Which is better to use in comparison, the cumulative or the BCPM? Or both? The reason why I ask is that my BCPM is better than my cumulative.
     
  22. UCLAMAN

    UCLAMAN Air Jordan Collector 7+ Year Member

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    Conversely, don't let your Lizzy scores deter you from applying to "reach" schools. A few reach schools are always good. Do not automatically throw a school off your list because your Lizzy score is lower than the LizzyM score. I wouldn't be a little under 2 weeks away from graduation at my medical school if I had based my applications entirely on Lizzy scores.
     
  23. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    You can calculate your score using either one, then compare to the school's score using the corresponding gpa (BCPM or total).

    Also, I agree with UCLAman, it is OK to reach for a school where your score is less than a school's score, but I'd recommend that not more than 20% of your schools be reach schools.
     
  24. washington101

    washington101 Member 2+ Year Member

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    I think this is an interesting system. However, let's not get carried away by stats or formulas. I think this number system is a good idea to see where you stand in terms of cold statistics...nothing more nothing less. Do not forget that a huge part of the application are the intangibles. Do not get bogged down in stats...in the end, they do not mean as much as what you say from the heart when you interview. Unfortunately, the stats monster seems to be what gets people interviews.
    I was able to get into a top 3 university this year and my mcat was 31, not the almost 36 average the school was touting. The only reason a school is a "reach" school is if you don't think highly enough of yourself to apply.
     
  25. cubbbie

    cubbbie Member 5+ Year Member

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    Yeah ... the schools I got accepted at all have a score much higher than my score, and many of the ones I got rejected from were at my score or below. If I had followed this system when applying to schools I wouldn't have gotten in anywhere!
     
  26. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Avatar=One of the Greats 5+ Year Member

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    this system is bull**** and misleading and Lizzy knows it, so I tried to make it realistic:

    +20 if you're an URM, who overcame alot to get to where you are now
    +19 if you're an URM from a nondisadvantaged background, extra points if you're parents were physicians/other highly paid professionals
    +2 if you're a nonURM but have worked in underserved environs
    +5 if you're PS makes LizzyM cry
    +5 if you have a LOR from Jesus
    -5 if you obviously have an interest in research in radiology
    +1 if you did any shadowing
    -10 if you didn't do any shadowing
    -10 if your medically related activities were for employment, rather than volunteering
     
  27. Carmenita79

    Carmenita79 Senior Member 2+ Year Member

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    What's wrong with this? I actually had patient related responsibilities when I had medical job rather than just putting together folders as a volunteer.
     
  28. yellowfeverdude

    yellowfeverdude Banned Banned

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    hi, why is radiology considered bad?
     
  29. ssquared

    ssquared Member 2+ Year Member

    Because everybody knows that radiologists don't like other people. They just sit in their dark rooms and laugh at the world while they count their money. :rolleyes:
     
  30. dabiophyz

    dabiophyz 2+ Year Member

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    Looks like all I need is a 40 on my MCAT to be in good shape...
     
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  31. premeddick

    premeddick Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    What were the factors in your application that pushed you above the statistical roof? Extensive volunteering, shadowing or research??? High GPA??? There has to be some intangible, right???
     
  32. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Avatar=One of the Greats 5+ Year Member

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    getting paid = not selfless service to others


    ...nevermind that pretty much all physicians make 6 figures post-residency
     
  33. deuist

    deuist Stealthfully Sarcastic Physician Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    I don't why, but the original poster is correct about paid vs volunteer responsibilities. I was a CNA with over 1000 hours of patient contact. I didn't get accepted to medical school the first time I applied. When I sat down with the admissions office to go over my application, I was told, "You need to do volunteering." I countered by pointing out that I did more than push wheelchairs. The admissions officer was firm---I had to do volunteering. I left her office, signed up for a volunteer gig, logged a few hundred hours in volunteering, and then got multiple acceptances the second time I applied. I should note that there were a couple of other improvements in my application over that two-year period, but I was still shocked and a little annoyed that my original hospital experience wasn't looked upon more favorably.
     
  34. Don't be so rude. LizzyM has been unbelievably helpful on this board. Perhaps someday you'll appreicate all her helpful advice. I think an apology is in order. :smuggrin:
     
  35. TheGreatHunt

    TheGreatHunt High Performance 7+ Year Member

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    Dang.... Jesus is only getting me +5? What a rip! I should just ask him to make me a URM...
     
  36. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Avatar=One of the Greats 5+ Year Member

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    its interesting that volunteer experiences are given more weight than employment experiences considering that medicine is a career rather than long-term volunteer work.

    of course if you were to call an adcom self-righteous you would be a called an arrogant, spoiled child...despite examples such as this that clearly reveal what bull**** this whole process is.
     
  37. DrVanNostran

    DrVanNostran 10+ Year Member

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    No wonder I don't have a shot in hell in getting into med school =)
     
  38. crazy_cavalier

    crazy_cavalier T3-Weighted 7+ Year Member

    :lol: :lol:

    Woooo that cracked me up, thanks for the laugh :D
     
  39. Mudfever

    Mudfever Still Searching 7+ Year Member

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    I have been told 2 sides to this by 2 diff adcom members at my local school.

    1. When you get paid for your contact hours (I actullay draw blood gases, administer EKG's and Breathing treatments as a student worker - no paperwork or wheelchair pusher) you actually have to work and be involved.

    2. When you volunteer, it is selfless.

    So IMO, it just depends on who has your folder in their hand.
     
  40. Koch

    Koch 5+ Year Member

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    That's complete bull. >99% of the hospital volunteering is because it will help your application. It is by no means selfless.
     
  41. NervousNed

    NervousNed 2+ Year Member

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    amen to that, what should have been written was,

    When you volunteer, AND DONT PUT IT ON YOUR APPLICATION, its selfless
     
  42. Mudfever

    Mudfever Still Searching 7+ Year Member

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    I would agree somewhat. I was simply stating what I had been told by an adcom member.

    Much of the volunteering in hospitals is because people want to polish their application. However, some people actually do enjoy volunteering, for example, in less fortunate areas such as MLK clinics and free medical counseling centers. Half of my volunteering is with mentally retarded children and adults, and is selfless. My compassion for them comes from my sister who is mentally retarded. Now I was volunteering in this sense long before I started on the path to medicine.

    I'm not trying to come off as "a better than thou", by any means. I am purely stating that there are some people who volunteer as a selfless act. It just so happens that Med schools want to know about All of your volunteer work, and that drives people to do more than they normally do.
     
  43. Koch

    Koch 5+ Year Member

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    I understand completely. And I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Thats why I left that <1%. I'm just saying adcoms are kidding themselves if they think volunteer work is inherently selfless.
     

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