West Chester University Psy.D Program

[NotTheHoff]

Thank you for the information! So if a program is on probation, does that affect current students in the program as far as applying for internships and/or having graduated from an accredited program?

A student comes from an accredited program if the program was accredited when they finish the program. If the student was still a student at the time of the site visit that resulted in accreditation (or continued accreditation), that counts too. For example, if a non-accredited program has a site visit in March, the student deposits their dissertation in May, and the program is granted accreditation in July on the basis of that March visit... the student counts as being from an accredited program.

A program on probation is "Accredited (on probation)." In other words, despite the probation label, the program is still accredited. If you graduate from a program that is on probation, you graduated from an accredited program.

For internship applications, there is an actual designation where you indicate the status of your program as being accredited, not accredited or accredited on probation. It really depends on how the internship site wants to look at it, so you could see how that designation could harm students applying for internship.

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[s.trelawney]

A student comes from an accredited program if the program was accredited when they finish the program. If the student was still a student at the time of the site visit that resulted in accreditation (or continued accreditation), that counts too. For example, if a non-accredited program has a site visit in March, the student deposits their dissertation in May, and the program is granted accreditation in July on the basis of that March visit... the student counts as being from an accredited program.

A program on probation is "Accredited (on probation)." In other words, despite the probation label, the program is still accredited. If you graduate from a program that is on probation, you graduated from an accredited program.

For internship applications, there is an actual designation where you indicate the status of your program as being accredited, not accredited or accredited on probation. It really depends on how the internship site wants to look at it, so you could see how that designation could harm students applying for internship.

That makes sense now! I was wondering how current students could have agreed to be part of a program that was not accredited... West Chester has a site visit scheduled for April, so hopefully everything goes well and thank you so much, because I did not know anything about the accreditation process and I appreciate the information

 

[hillies]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I've had some interactions with their students from a training perspective and I have to say I've been impressed so far. Time and numbers will tell, but I think it has the potential to be a very strong program.

 

[s.trelawney]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I've had some interactions with their students from a training perspective and I have to say I've been impressed so far. Time and numbers will tell, but I think it has the potential to be a very strong program.

That is great to hear, thank you so much!

 

[Sendtrees]

This sounds like an okay program. The risk is that if they're not APA-accredited by the time you go off to internship, you will have a harder time getting an APA-accredited internship. Unless this has changed from ~10 years ago, you CAN get licensed in PA with either an APA-accredited internship OR program. So, you don't need both program and internship to be APA-accredited, but one of them has to be. And it's harder to get an APA-accredited internship if your program isn't. Hard but not impossible.

Passing the EPPP is something entirely within your control. If you are someone who tends to do well enough on standardized or multiple-choice tests, you will probably pass. You need to study for it, but it's not outrageously tricky. All of the materials to study for it are available to the public. The reason that I would pay attention to EPPP pass rates when considering programs is that it's a proxy for how selective a program is. The more selective a program, the more likely the students they select are capable of passing an exam like the EPPP.

 

[wtfook]

Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP) is the second largest PASSHE school. They’ve had a well regarded Psy.D. program there for decades. Actually, the reason it’s program isn’t a PhD program is supposedly because of political issues raised by the state related universities (Penn State/Pitt/Temple). It’s research curriculum and dissertation expectations are more in line with a PhD model. There have been recent rumblings that they are attempting to switch to a PhD because of West Chester’s new program. IUP has the same low (in relative terms, anyway) in state rates and GA opportunities as West Chester (exactly the same, I believe). The GA opportunities have been damaged by the chronic underfunding of PASSHE schools in recent years. Until about mid-decade they guaranteed everyone half-tuition funding and a small stipend, and many got fully funded at least some of the time. Now, everyone gets some funding, but it’s apparently not guaranteed, and it’s not always a full half.

Anyway, IUP’s program is another potential option. It’s very similar to West Chester’s in many ways, but it is more established. It’s also in the middle of no where, 90 minutes outside of Pittsburgh, which means cost of living is very very cheap. This also literally means it’s in the middle of rural nowhere, and all that does and doesn’t bring to the table.

Could you elaborate more on the state/political issues? I'm from PA and wasn't aware of this. I'm really interested to know more.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

And it's harder to get an APA-accredited internship if your program isn't. Hard but not impossible.
.

Pretty sure it is almost impossible now. To participate in the match you have to come from an APA-accredited program. However, APA changed their accreditation procedures so new programs don't have to graduate a class pre-accreditation.

Simply put, risk involved in a non-acredited program. You would have to bet on them actually getting accreditation on their first attempt.

 

[s.trelawney]

Pretty sure it is almost impossible now. To participate in the match you have to come from an APA-accredited program. However, APA changed their accreditation procedures so new programs don't have to graduate a class pre-accreditation.

Simply put, risk involved in a non-acredited program. You would have to bet on them actually getting accreditation on their first attempt.

Yes exactly, which is a huge deal. In your experience, would there have to be a major issue for them to not be accredited on their first attempt? If there is something minor lacking would they be more likely to be accredited, on contingency? Thanks for your help!

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Yes exactly, which is a huge deal. In your experience, would there have to be a major issue for them to not be accredited on their first attempt? If there is something minor lacking would they be more likely to be accredited, on contingency? Thanks for your help!

No idea.

 

[psych.meout]

Yes exactly, which is a huge deal. In your experience, would there have to be a major issue for them to not be accredited on their first attempt? If there is something minor lacking would they be more likely to be accredited, on contingency? Thanks for your help!

"Accredited, on contingency" isn't meant to imply that there were some kind of problems, minor or major, with a program. It's not like an accredited program being on probation and forced to correct problems. Programs can elect to obtain "accredited, on contingency" status, which allows them to get a head start on accreditation before their first cohort has graduated and completed internship. That's what the "contingency" is, their ultimate full accreditation is contingent on the first cohort graduating as planned without incident.

 

[s.trelawney]

"Accredited, on contingency" isn't meant to imply that there were some kind of problems, minor or major, with a program. It's not like an accredited program being on probation and forced to correct problems. Programs can elect to obtain "accredited, on contingency" status, which allows them to get a head start on accreditation before their first cohort has graduated and completed internship. That's what the "contingency" is, their ultimate full accreditation is contingent on the first cohort graduating as planned without incident.

Thank you so much for clearing that up!

 

[PsySeeker]

Could you elaborate more on the state/political issues? I'm from PA and wasn't aware of this. I'm really interested to know more.

Just various institutions with a lot of political heft jockeying over what the state funds. IUP’s Psy.D. program was nearly fully funded initially (and while that can longer be said, it remains extremely well funded compared to all but a very few Psy.D. Programs). That money comes from the state. IUP (state owned) also has heavily subsidized rates for instate tuition, again, state money. Pitt, Temple, PSU (all state related, which is different then owned in PA, still public, but much less supported by public money) didn’t want another instate PHD program to compete with, so they blocked approval (or it was clear it would be blocked) at the state level. They were either less concerned or less able to block a Psy.D. program, which IUP would have justified to the state by citing demand/need in the 1980s. Now there is contention over other state owned schools (the one at the heart of this thread) starting up new Psy.D. programs, as well as recognition that the program requires similar research courses and has dissertation expectations more akin to a typical PHD program. This is irritating some current students/faculty and along with other state owned schools offering the degree now is arguably harming applicant quality/offer acceptances. As a result, there is supposedly an internal push by some faculty to attempt to covert to a PHD program, but who knows, I’m not currently involved with the state system. Hope this was what you were looking for!

 

[964693]

West Chester is okay. If you're in Philly for a Psyd I would look at Widener and PCOM. Widener is one of the founding PsyDs, although it costs your first born child to go there. But if your plan is just to never pay and dick over the country with PSLF anyway then maybe it doesn't matter. Widener would give you a much deeper understanding of clinical theory and a variety of orientations like dynamic. They also have a captive 2-year internship. But PCOM is well known for teaching manualized CBT and just being very focused on contemporary approaches and being good at a narrow skill set, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. PCOM also wasn't terrible expensive as far as PsyDs go, I think around 100k even for tuition. Plus it is all evenings. It is designed for people to work their way through. I knew a lot of people that worked as supervisors in Philly's pretty thriving social services/autism system and went to PCOM. Many of my supervisors attended PCOM. I can't say any of them were very knowledgeable, skilled, or professional. In fact it might be one of the worst PsyDs in the area outside of, like I said, a very narrow skill set. But it's cheap and convenient and good at CBT.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

West Chester is okay. If you're in Philly for a Psyd I would look at Widener and PCOM. Widener is one of the founding PsyDs, although it costs your first born child to go there. But if your plan is just to never pay and dick over the country with PSLF anyway then maybe it doesn't matter. Widener would give you a much deeper understanding of clinical theory and a variety of orientations like dynamic. They also have a captive 2-year internship. But PCOM is well known for teaching manualized CBT and just being very focused on contemporary approaches and being good at a narrow skill set, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. PCOM also wasn't terrible expensive as far as PsyDs go, I think around 100k even for tuition. Plus it is all evenings. It is designed for people to work their way through. I knew a lot of people that worked as supervisors in Philly's pretty thriving social services/autism system and went to PCOM. Many of my supervisors attended PCOM. I can't say any of them were very knowledgeable, skilled, or professional. In fact it might be one of the worst PsyDs in the area outside of, like I said, a very narrow skill set. But it's cheap and convenient and good at CBT.

I can't tell the tone of this post. Serious? Sarcastic? All the above?

 

[964693]

I can't tell the tone of this post. Serious? Sarcastic? All the above?

Completely serious. Why does it sound sarcastic? You can look any of this information up, it is accurate. The Philly Psych community is one of the few things I'm always serious about.

 

[s.trelawney]

Completely serious. Why does it sound sarcastic? You can look any of this information up, it is accurate. The Philly Psych community is one of the few things I'm always serious about.

Why do you think West Chester is just okay?

 

[964693]

Why do you think West Chester is just okay?

I don't know. They're the Penn State undergrad of Philly PsyDs. It's fine. It's where you go if you don't have any particular thoughts about what kind of PsyD you want to get where or why. It won't close or open any doors in the area.

Actually to add one program - you might look into Indiana Uni of PA. They're one of the few largely funded PsyDs that I know of, I think 75%. The whole program seems toxic and terrible interpersonally but it's often overlooked for being a smaller program.

 

[psych.meout]

Actually to add one program - you might look into Indiana Uni of PA. They're one of the few largely funded PsyDs that I know of, I think 75%. The whole program seems toxic and terrible interpersonally but it's often overlooked for being a smaller program.

Why do you say that?

 

[964693]

Why do you say that?

When I interviewed there the director was so borderline it wasnt funny, the students hated the program and each other, and the professors all seemed toxic. Plus the students were inappropriate, unprofessional, and kind of acting out during the interview

 

[psych.meout]

When I interviewed there the director was so borderline it wasnt funny, the students hated the program and each other, and the professors all seemed toxic. Plus the students were inappropriate, unprofessional, and kind of acting out during the interview

That sounds terrible.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

When I interviewed there the director was so borderline it wasnt funny

I recommend that people don't use diagnostic terms as pejorative labels.

 

[PsySeeker]

I don't know. They're the Penn State undergrad of Philly PsyDs. It's fine. It's where you go if you don't have any particular thoughts about what kind of PsyD you want to get where or why. It won't close or open any doors in the area.

Actually to add one program - you might look into Indiana Uni of PA. They're one of the few largely funded PsyDs that I know of, I think 75%. The whole program seems toxic and terrible interpersonally but it's often overlooked for being a smaller program.

“The Penn State of undergrad”? PSU is a great school for many many folks for many reasons. I don’t understand the comparison either, at all. Also, IUP has been discussed throughout this thread?

 

[PsySeeker]

I recommend that people don't use diagnostic terms as pejorative labels.

That’s a solid recommendation doc, I concur.

 

[PsySeeker]

When I interviewed there the director was so borderline it wasnt funny, the students hated the program and each other, and the professors all seemed toxic. Plus the students were inappropriate, unprofessional, and kind of acting out during the interview

For what it’s worth, they replaced the director there this academic year. I’m curious what about the director made you feel that they were borderline?

 

[964693]

For what it’s worth, they replaced the director there this academic year. I’m curious what about the director made you feel that they were borderline?

Because he spent his lunch monologue splitting and saying things I would expect from one of my BPD clients but worse.

Anyway this and the other conversations in which I find myself embroiled are all boring. I'm going to end this particular SDN account.

 

[psych.meout]

Because he spent his lunch monologue splitting and saying things I would expect from one of my BPD clients but worse.

Anyway this and the other conversations in which I find myself embroiled are all boring. I'm going to end this particular SDN account.

Huh, weird that you get "bored" after you've been asked for citations to back up your assertions....

 

[964693]

Huh, weird that you get "bored" after you've been asked for citations to back up your assertions....

I get bored and start new accounts like every two months

 

[964693]

Pretty sure it is almost impossible now.

This is only partly true as a non-apa accredited program's intern candidates can participate in round 3/ clearinghouse, and i have known many that successfully matched to apa sites in this way. not at desirable sites, but it happens.

 

[PsySeeker]

Because he spent his lunch monologue splitting and saying things I would expect from one of my BPD clients but worse.

Anyway this and the other conversations in which I find myself embroiled are all boring. I'm going to end this particular SDN account.

Splitting? I still don’t understand because your being so vague. Anyway, the way your talking about ending your account because your not stimulated enough by two conversations, and that you have a habit of doing this bi-monthly is just endlessly delicious material. Please, tell us more.

 

[erg923]

Splitting? I still don’t understand because your being so vague. Anyway, the way your talking about ending your account because your not stimulated enough by two conversations, and that you have a habit of doing this bi-monthly is just endlessly delicious material. Please, tell us more.

Good breast, bad breast. Psychodynamic stuff. You can look it up. The poster seems to analyze and interpret alot of stuff based on limited exposure/interaction.

Please understand, its not like Borderline PD isn't a thing...its just that clinicians have alot of opinions and counter-transference about it/the disorder. I have almost zero interest in that area frankly, but I agree with others that using it in a pejorative way based on a speech/talk seems more than silly (professionally irresponsible?)

Overall he seems, uh....temperamental?

 

[PsySeeker]

Good breast, bad breast. Psychodynamic stuff. You can look it up. The poster seems to analyze and interpret alot of stuff based on limited exposure/interaction.

Please understand, its not like borderline PD isn't a thing...but clinicians have alot of opinions and counter-transference about it/the disorder. I have almost zero interest in that area frankly, but I agree with others that using it in a pejorative way based on a speech/talk seems more than silly (professionally irresponsible?)

Overall he seems, uh....temperamental?

Oh I’m familiar with the term, I just don’t understand the manner in which it was applied because of the total lack of context. It doesn’t mean much of anything the way it was used.

I’m very familiar with PDs generally, and the population I work with (forensic) is a good daily reminder about why there is such controversy surrounding the constructs as they are currently defined. Most clients have a lot of overlapping symptomology, to the point that almost any of the cluster B DXs could describe aspects of them well. Way to homogeneous, if you ask me. Some folks do like to toss around the terms, which they absolutely should not, because (among other reasons) they are so loaded, and not particularly descriptive on their own. I’d agree that the poster using the term as an insult is immature, and I’d say unprofessional.

Who seems temperamental, the poster? I’d say they seem to enjoy being provocative.

 

[foreverbull]

I get bored and start new accounts like every two months

I have to say, I've never heard of anyone "[getting] bored and [starting] new accounts" yet still posting in the same forum regularly anyway. Doesn't the forum stay boring if it's boring even if you have a different name? Perhaps "bored" is code for something else.

 

[erg923]

I have to say, I've never heard of anyone "[getting] bored and [starting] new accounts" yet still posting in the same forum regularly anyway. Doesn't the forum stay boring if it's boring even if you have a different name? Perhaps "bored" is code for something else.

Psychodynamic burn.....?

 

[Kay2018]

Thank you for the information! So if a program is on probation, does that affect current students in the program as far as applying for internships and/or having graduated from an accredited program?

Hi OP,

Could you update this forum with where you have finally chosen to go to? West Chester?