West Chester University Psy.D Program

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s.trelawney

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Hello! I am wondering if anyone has experience with the Psy.D program at West Chester. They are not currently accredited, but in the process of being evaluated because they are a newer program. West Chester is a state university, and the Psy.D program does have many renowned faculty. My hesitation in pursuing their program comes from the fact that they are not yet accredited (although they could be by the time I would enter the program) and there is no information on the internship match rates or the licensure exam pass rates yet. Does anyone else feel like these concerns are valid, or do you feel that West Chester is a credible institution which would produce well-prepared clinicians?
Thank you so much for any and all input!

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It looks like they filed for contingency status and are in review according to the APA website.
 
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Also, what's the tuition?
Out-of-state tuition for nine credits in a term appears to be $9,054. Including fees, it's $10,215. If I am understanding this page correctly, they offer graduate assistantships for partial tuition waivers and potentially a stipend.
 
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Your concerns are valid. This is a new program without an established track record, and that always entails some risk. It looks as though no one has yet advanced far enough in the program to be able to apply for internship (everyone is third year or earlier).

My quick review of the department faculty raises no red flags. The handbook makes it clear that students must choose between two specialty "tracks," child clinical health and trauma/PTSD. I suppose this is a function of the faculty interests and practicum opportunities but it does raise questions for me about the breadth of the generalist training they can offer. Definitely something to ask about if you move forward.
 
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Are they accredited on contingency? Also, what's the tuition?

To my knowledge they are just applying for the first time since the program is newer so they are in the process of being evaluated by the APA. Since I do not know for sure whether they would be accredited by the time I would start, I am hesitant about it. However, the tuition is affordable, coming out to about $5000 a semester after the assistantship waiver. I am confident they will get accredited because they designed the program around the APA guidelines, but having no data on internship match rates and licensure exams scares me.
Thanks for replying!
 
Your concerns are valid. This is a new program without an established track record, and that always entails some risk. It looks as though no one has yet advanced far enough in the program to be able to apply for internship (everyone is third year or earlier).

My quick review of the department faculty raises no red flags. The handbook makes it clear that students must choose between two specialty "tracks," child clinical health and trauma/PTSD. I suppose this is a function of the faculty interests and practicum opportunities but it does raise questions for me about the breadth of the generalist training they can offer. Definitely something to ask about if you move forward.

Yes, I will definitely be asking about that! Child clinical health is what I am interested in and what I would like to pursue, but I want to make sure I am well-versed in other areas and prepared for the licensure exam. Thank you for validating my concerns and taking the time to reply!
 
For what it's worth, their master's program has a stellar reputation in the area and they produce some quality child/adolescent research. Tuition comes in at 650-975 depending upon residency status. Looks like 2/2 interns have matched, though the site doesn't provide data on APA-Accred status. Assuming a small cohort (for now), as only 23 students are enrolled in the program.
Quality of life wise, West Chester and most of Chester County, Pennsylvania are beautiful! Cost of living is exceedingly high, though. The county itself is generally ranked within the top 20 most affluent counties in the U.S.. Expect to pay close to $1200 per month on rent for a studio-1 bedroom apartment.
 
To my knowledge they are just applying for the first time since the program is newer so they are in the process of being evaluated by the APA. Since I do not know for sure whether they would be accredited by the time I would start, I am hesitant about it. However, the tuition is affordable, coming out to about $5000 a semester after the assistantship waiver. I am confident they will get accredited because they designed the program around the APA guidelines, but having no data on internship match rates and licensure exams scares me.
Thanks for replying!
The program only has to be accredited by the time you apply for internship, not the time you start, to make a difference to you (access to the appic match). Accredited on contingency is the same as full accreditation in that regard.
 
For what it's worth, their master's program has a stellar reputation in the area and they produce some quality child/adolescent research. Tuition comes in at 650-975 depending upon residency status. Looks like 2/2 interns have matched, though the site doesn't provide data on APA-Accred status. Assuming a small cohort (for now), as only 23 students are enrolled in the program.
Quality of life wise, West Chester and most of Chester County, Pennsylvania are beautiful! Cost of living is exceedingly high, though. The county itself is generally ranked within the top 20 most affluent counties in the U.S.. Expect to pay close to $1200 per month on rent for a studio-1 bedroom apartment.

That’s worth a lot to me! I was hoping for some reassurance from others in the field that West Chester is a reputable institution and although they’re not currently accredited, that it is likely they will be once they are evaluated. I also appreciate the information on COL in that area. Thank you so much for your response!
 
The program only has to be accredited by the time you apply for internship, not the time you start, to make a difference to you (access to the appic match). Accredited on contingency is the same as full accreditation in that regard.

I didn’t realize that, but it makes sense now! Do you feel that a newer program would be looked down upon by internship sites though or that the program being newly accredited could affect my chances of securing a high-quality, preferably paid internship?
 
I interviewed for a faculty job there and they seemed pretty solid.
 
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I didn’t realize that, but it makes sense now! Do you feel that a newer program would be looked down upon by internship sites though or that the program being newly accredited could affect my chances of securing a high-quality, preferably paid internship?
I don't think anyone would really know that it was newly accredited, other than that they would not have seen many applicants from it before. So, you might have a minor ding from lack of name recognition, maybe. But it looks to me like the program is setting itself up to be a parallel of Rutgers or Baylor programs rather than massive FSPS PsyDs. Probably will come down to what you can do while there (so, e.g., at interview be asking what prac sites they have developed relationships with for the students to go to).
 
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West Chester is an interesting program b/c it represents a new wave of PsyD programs.. There have been a few state school, small-cohort, science-orientated, and affordable PsyD programs recently. It feels like these are programs that would be PhDs but are not permitted due to admin issues. West Chester is part of the state system (PASSHE) in PA (Penn State is not actually a public university). My belief is that the reason West Chester doesn't have a PhD program is they likely would not have received approval from PASSHE (or locally) but a PsyD is viewed as a more applied degree and admins don't know anything.

It is a new program that has been expanding. As @cara susanna mentions they have had been looking for hires in recent years. The program's advantage is the low cost for in-state tuition. Additionally, assistanships are available but are merit-based and on a competitive basis. Outstanding candidates may get tuition remission and a small stipend.

West Chester is the largest PASSHE school and is on the outer layer of the Philly metro area. This means that if you are willing to live a bit west of West Chester you could likely find some very affordable housing. PASSHE has been going through some hard times with leadership recently but West Chester has been very well managed. I would feel comfortable recommending this school to my undergrads (as I have in the past) with 2 major caveats: 1) you never know about accreditation and 2) the bias against PsyDs in general.

There are more expensive and predatory PsyD programs in the Philly area. I would definitely never recommend those but this one is a much safer bet.
 
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I don't think anyone would really know that it was newly accredited, other than that they would not have seen many applicants from it before. So, you might have a minor ding from lack of name recognition, maybe. But it looks to me like the program is setting itself up to be a parallel of Rutgers or Baylor programs rather than massive FSPS PsyDs. Probably will come down to what you can do while there (so, e.g., at interview be asking what prac sites they have developed relationships with for the students to go to).

That is a great suggestion, I will definitely be asking them about practicum sites and making sure I gather all the information I can before making a decision. Thank you so much for your input!
 
West Chester is an interesting program b/c it represents a new wave of PsyD programs.. There have been a few public school, small-cohort, science-orientated, and affordable PsyD programs recently. It feels like these are programs that would be PhDs but are not permitted due to admin issues. West Chester is part of the states system (PASSHE) in PA (Penn State is not actually a public university). My belief is that the reason West Chester doesn't have a PhD program is they likely would not have received approval from PASSHE (or locally) but a PsyD is viewed as a more applied degree and admins don't know anything.

It is a new program that has been expanding. As @cara susanna mentions they have had been looking for hires in recent years. The program's advantage is the low cost for in-state tuition. Additionally, assistanships are available but are merit-based and on a competitive basis. Outstanding candidates may get tuition remission and a small stipend.

West Chester is the largest PASSHE school and is on the outer layer of the Philly metro area. This means that if you are willing to live a bit west of West Chester you could likely find some very affordable housing. PASSHE has been going through some hard times with leadership recently but West Chester has been very well managed. I would feel comfortable recommending this school to my undergrads (as I have in the past) with 2 major caveats: 1) you never know about accreditation and 2) the bias against PsyDs in general.

There are more expensive and predatory PsyD programs in the Philly area. I would definitely never recommend those but this one is a much safer bet.

I appreciate how you highlighted the advantages of the program and gave me further information while also pointing out the potential flaws. Thank you for treating me the same way you treat your own students! Also, do you feel that the bias against PsyD's affects career prospects, or that if someone with a PhD was going up against someone with a PsyD for the same clinical position, the PhD would be picked over the PsyD? I am interested to hear more of your thoughts on these biases. Thank you again!
 
Also, do you feel that the bias against PsyD's affects career prospects, or that if someone with a PhD was going up against someone with a PsyD for the same clinical position, the PhD would be picked over the PsyD? I am interested to hear more of your thoughts on these biases. Thank you again!
IMO the institution of where the PsyD was coming from would be scruitinized if it was unfamiliar. If it was a familiar, reputable program, then I think a PsyD wouldn't be looked on differently in the places I have worked (and a familiar, disreputable program would be thrown into the trash). Unfamiliar PsyD programs will be looked at fairly closely whereas the institution of PhD candidates from less familiar institutions probably wouldn't be looked at as closely except maybe when deciding who gets final offer. All that to say, good PsyDs (the few that exist) are recognized as such - good programs.
 
IMO the institution of where the PsyD was coming from would be scruitinized if it was unfamiliar. If it was a familiar, reputable program, then I think a PsyD wouldn't be looked on differently in the places I have worked (and a familiar, disreputable program would be thrown into the trash). Unfamiliar PsyD programs will be looked at fairly closely whereas the institution of PhD candidates from less familiar institutions probably wouldn't be looked at as closely except maybe when deciding who gets final offer. All that to say, good PsyDs (the few that exist) are recognized as such - good programs.

Thank you so much for your input! I see what you mean, it's not so much the PsyD degree, as much as where it comes from? Can you give me an example of some of these non-reputable programs, or what makes them not reputable or good? I only applied to West Chester, but I would like to know what to look out for when I do go on this interview, as to what makes a program not reputable or good, so that I can hopefully recognize what makes WC a good program! Thank you so much again for your time!
 
West Chester is an interesting program b/c it represents a new wave of PsyD programs.. There have been a few public school, small-cohort, science-orientated, and affordable PsyD programs recently. It feels like these are programs that would be PhDs but are not permitted due to admin issues. West Chester is part of the states system (PASSHE) in PA (Penn State is not actually a public university). My belief is that the reason West Chester doesn't have a PhD program is they likely would not have received approval from PASSHE (or locally) but a PsyD is viewed as a more applied degree and admins don't know anything.

Ironically, that was actually the original intent of the Vail model and how older programs were set up. What was old is new again...
 
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Thank you so much for your input! I see what you mean, it's not so much the PsyD degree, as much as where it comes from? Can you give me an example of some of these non-reputable programs, or what makes them not reputable or good? I only applied to West Chester, but I would like to know what to look out for when I do go on this interview, as to what makes a program not reputable or good, so that I can hopefully recognize what makes WC a good program! Thank you so much again for your time!

Free-standing for-profit PsyDs are usually the biggest offenders. Signs of a sketchy program are often large class sizes (little to no individual attention, especially when you have incoming classes of 50+), extremely high cost and little to no funding opportunities, poor connection to training opportunities. Usually the biggest markers are poor APA accredited internship match rates, EPPP pass rates, and licensure rates. With a new program, you obviously don't have that outcome data (past performance is usually a solid predictor of future performance). This is definitely not an exhaustive list, but the main points that come to mind.
 
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Free-standing for-profit PsyDs are usually the biggest offenders. Signs of a sketchy program are often large class sizes (little to no individual attention, especially when you have incoming classes of 50+), extremely high cost and little to no funding opportunities, poor connection to training opportunities. Usually the biggest markers are poor APA accredited internship match rates, EPPP pass rates, and licensure rates. With a new program, you obviously don't have that outcome data (past performance is usually a solid predictor of future performance). This is definitely not an exhaustive list, but the main points that come to mind.

After reading some of the other posts on here, I am starting to see which programs fall under that category. I think West Chester is a much safer bet because of the small class sizes (~9 per cohort) and affordable tuition, and it is a reputable institution. It does suck that I don't have that data to back it up, but I will be asking a lot of questions about how the program prepares students for the EPPP. Thank you so much for clearing that up for me! Have a wonderful day :)
 
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Also, do you feel that the bias against PsyD's affects career prospects, or that if someone with a PhD was going up against someone with a PsyD for the same clinical position, the PhD would be picked over the PsyD? I am interested to hear more of your thoughts on these biases. Thank you again!
This is starting to become such a common question that I think it needs an empirical answer. Anecdotally the answer is yes but we do not have any empirical evidence.
 
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This is starting to become such a common question that I think it needs an empirical answer. Anecdotally the answer is yes but we do not have any empirical evidence.

I understand. Why do you think that is? Does it have to do with those diploma mill PsyD programs giving the degree a bad name? Or is there another reason? From what I can tell, PsyD programs like Baylor and Rutgers are structured similarly to PhD programs, but are graduates of their programs seen as less than PhD students? If graduates of both program types have to complete a dissertation (thus, having similar level of difficulty/time dedicated to research vs. clinical work), then what is the root of the bias? I would hate to complete a PsyD program and then realize I did a very similar amount of work as a PhD program but not have the same opportunities as those graduates. I am interested to hear your input, and I appreciate it!
 
If graduates of both program types have to complete a dissertation (thus, having similar level of difficulty/time dedicated to research vs. clinical work)

Both degrees complete a dissertation, but generally the PhD has more research involved. It varies a lot program to program, but often times there are stricter rules for what "counts" for a dissertation in a PhD program. I've heard that some (reputable!) PsyD programs will allow data reanalysis or case studies for a dissertation, whereas most PhD programs I'm familiar with require original data collection, and often require a larger scope of project. Additionally, most PhD programs are set up to train students as professional researchers, and emphasize working in research labs, publishing, and writing grants. In a PsyD you need some degree of research competence but you're not being trained as a PI.

Again, this varies program to program. Some rigorous PsyD programs have just as much research emphasis as more "clinically balanced" PhDs. But generally the PsyD is less research-focused.
 
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but you're not being trained as a PI.

But again, this varies program to program. Some rigorous PsyD programs have just as much research emphasis as more "clinically balanced" PhDs.

Thank you for clearing that up! That makes a lot of sense, and it is part of the reason I chose to apply to West Chester, because of the clinical training but also the requirement of an original dissertation that contributes to a need in the field. Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask what "PI" stands for, as I've seen it tossed around in other threads but did not want to interject just to ask that. I tried to Google it too but that wasn't helpful. I truly appreciate your time!
 
Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask what "PI" stands for, as I've seen it tossed around in other threads but did not want to interject just to ask that. I tried to Google it too but that wasn't helpful. I truly appreciate your time!

PI stands for Principal Investigator
 
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Thank you for clearing that up! That makes a lot of sense, and it is part of the reason I chose to apply to West Chester, because of the clinical training but also the requirement of an original dissertation that contributes to a need in the field. Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask what "PI" stands for, as I've seen it tossed around in other threads but did not want to interject just to ask that. I tried to Google it too but that wasn't helpful. I truly appreciate your time!

Oh sure, sorry. PI means principle investigator. Basically someone who spearheads grant-funded research, runs labs on their own, etc. There's a lot of room to be competent in research without being that level of competent, and that's the area that good PsyD programs fill.

(In the application process you may also run across "POI" which means "professor of interest" or something like that, basically the faculty member that you are asking to work with, in programs that do advisor-based admissions.)

Re: West Chester's dissertation requirements: The way you describe it sounds like a pretty generic definition of what a dissertation is. Don't think it says much either way about how rigorous they are. Based on other assessments in this thread it sounds like a generally good program, though.
 
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Oh sure, sorry. PI means principle investigator. Basically someone who spearheads grant-funded research, runs labs on their own, etc. There's a lot of room to be competent in research without being that level of competent, and that's the area that good PsyD programs fill.

(In the application process you may also run across "POI" which means "professor of interest" or something like that, basically the faculty member that you are asking to work with, in programs that do advisor-based admissions.)

Re: West Chester's dissertation requirements: The way you describe it sounds like a pretty generic definition of what a dissertation is. Don't think it says much either way about how rigorous they are. Based on other assessments in this thread it sounds like a generally good program, though.

Thank you! That's helpful to know. So do you feel that the dissertation, in whichever way it is completed for each program, has any bearing or weight when applying to clinical jobs? Or do you feel that employers focus more on the clinical training and experience of a potential hire? Not that I'm not concerned with how the dissertation is completed, I will definitely ask more about that at the interview. But I am mostly worried now that the PsyD degree in general, no matter where it comes from (even though it helps not coming from Argosy, etc.), will put me at a disadvantage if I am up for the same job as someone with a PhD, based on the biases I have heard about PsyD's.
I appreciate your time more than you know! :)
 
So do you feel that the dissertation, in whichever way it is completed for each program, has any bearing or weight when applying to clinical jobs?

My guess is nope! Though I'm still an early career psychologist, and have not been in the position of hiring other psychologists yet. For clinical jobs, I've been asked about the general topic of my dissertation but have never been grilled on the methods. Curious what others' take on this is.
 
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My guess is nope! Though I'm still an early career psychologist, and have not been in the position of hiring other psychologists yet. For clinical jobs, I've been asked about the general topic of my dissertation but have never been grilled on the methods. Curious what others' take on this is.
Same. I am aware of some PsyD programs that require a "dissertation," but their definition of it is not what anyone else would call a "dissertation" (e.g. a 30-page case study). I have no idea whether that contributes to the bias against the PsyD, but it might. My guess about the bias is that it's probably just good old fashioned distrust of something that diverges from a perceived norm.
 
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. Additionally, most PhD programs are set up to train students as professional researchers, and emphasize working in research labs, publishing, and writing grants.

This isn't exactly accurate. The PhD programs are there to train people for a variety of roles. And, I would say that most are actually flexible or balanced programs. The heavy duty R1 research ones are more the exception than the rule. Remember that the vast majority of PhDs are working clinical jobs.
 
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This isn't exactly accurate. The PhD programs are there to train people for a variety of roles. And, I would say that most are actually flexible or balanced programs. The heavy duty R1 research ones are more the exception than the rule. Remember that the vast majority of PhDs are working clinical jobs.

Do they not all train students to be researchers, in addition to the other roles, though? My understanding was that even the most balanced programs still prepare students to conduct research, whereas many PsyD programs may give them a "background" in methodology at most.

I thought that I went to a pretty clincally-focused PhD program (most grads go into private practice/hospital jobs), but we still had heavy labwork and most people published a few things during school, and could have applied to research jobs.
 
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Do they not all train students to be researchers, in addition to the other roles, though? My understanding was that even the most balanced programs still prepare students to conduct research, whereas many PsyD programs may give them a "background" in methodology at most.

I thought that I went to a pretty clincally-focused PhD program (most grads go into private practice/hospital jobs), but we still had heavy labwork and most people published a few things during school, and could have applied to research jobs.

They will conduct you to be savvy in research, but the goal is not to make everyone a tenure track faculty or applied researcher. Many are set up flexibly, where you need to do a certain level of research to be competent, but especially in your later years, you can focus more on future career goals. Your statement made it sound like the only thing people in PhD programs are there for is to learn research. Most PhD programs are set up to train well-rounded psychologists who are competent in a variety of areas, including clinical work and research.
 
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Right so to clarify I was only speaking to the differences in research training specifically, not the other components of doctoral training, as the OP seemed to be asking if both degrees do a dissertation does that mean that the research requirement is the same.
 
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Do they not all train students to be researchers, in addition to the other roles, though? My understanding was that even the most balanced programs still prepare students to conduct research, whereas many PsyD programs may give them a "background" in methodology at most.

I thought that I went to a pretty clincally-focused PhD program (most grads go into private practice/hospital jobs), but we still had heavy labwork and most people published a few things during school, and could have applied to research jobs.

As an example, I went to a scientist-practitioner model clinical psych Ph.D. program at a state flagship university. Of the 6 students in my cohort who graduated with me, 2 have pure academic positions (i.e., research focused; grant funded), and 4 of us went primarily clinical positions, though a few of have done some hybrid stuff (e.g., some teaching and research, but as a small part of or adjunct to a mainly clinical job). I spent many years primarily as an administrator, though with some clinical oversight and supervision responsibilities (it's also the setting where my publications came from). The program has since changed to a "Clinical Scientist" model, with a stated goal of preparing students for careers in clinical research.

I recently sat on a "doctoral project" committee for a student from a local FSPS. While he did a decent research project, the standards were much different and less stringent from I experienced myself. Firstly, the research was not done in conjunction with a specific lab. While there was a faculty advisor, it was not a mentor type of thing where the student worked in his lab (as far as I could tell, there were no labs, in the traditional sense of the word). In reviewing the project proposal, I found that I was the only committee member who noted some serious methodological and statistical issues (e.g., main hypothesis was that the null hypothesis was correct). All that said, at least the student did an empirical project (not required).

I am (and have been for a while) in a position where I review applicants for psychologist positions. My procedure for review generally goes a follows:
1) Trash any from the questionable diploma mills/predatory programs/really crappy local FSPS
2) Verify that the candidate is a licensed psychologist in my with a "health services provider." If not, they get tossed. I don't see any licensed-but-not-HSP. I do occasionally get someone licensed as a school-psychologist (MA level credential). They get tossed.
3) Look for RECENT experience doing the work we need them to do. Bonus points for experience with the same tests, ages, dx, etc.
4) Look for weird patterns of professional behaviors (e.g., change jobs every year or two; work in highly variable settings/populations without some unifying "theme")
5) Look for any personal of professional connections, and follow-up if there are some. It's a small world, and if you burnt bridges I might find out.
6) Do a web search. Families and clients will, so I want to know if there's anything questionable out there. I don't care about the occasional party pic, etc., but things like racism, antisemitism, lot's of gun pics, etc., are at the very least MAJOR red flags.

Honestly, if you get that far, we'd probably offer you the job. It's really hard to find applicants with appropriate experience and interest. Things like type of degree (e.g., Ph.D. or Psy.D. don't really come into the equation, though all things equal I'd give a slight edge to a Ph.D. candidate from uni-based program over any candidate from an FSPS). Research experience with a relevant population or topic might favorably augment an applicant with limited applicable clinical experience, but otherwise it's not that big of a deal.
 
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I think it's fair, from a technical standpoint, to say Ph.D. programs train people to be researchers. That is, they train people in a way to provide them the potential or opportunity to be researchers, even if most don't actually do that as a career. They also, of course, provide training sufficient to function in lots of other roles.

There are certainly Psy.D. programs that can, and have done the same. It just may not be as much of a primary/modal focus.

As for dissertations and clinical jobs: I was never asked about my dissertation during any of my job interviews. I could see it being a selling point if it's in an area directly relevant to the job (e.g., dissertation dealt with eating disorder treatment, and you're applying for a job at an eating disorder clinic), but I otherwise don't know if it'll matter all that much in most instances. I'd be shocked if more than 1 or 2 people at my current job know anything about my dissertation.
 
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I think it's fair, from a technical standpoint, to say Ph.D. programs train people to be researchers. That is, they train people in a way to provide them the potential or opportunity to be researchers, even if most don't actually do that as a career. They also, of course, provide training sufficient to function in lots of other roles.
.

I would agree in principal. but, the way that it is usually phrased here, is that PhD programs train people to be solely researchers. Which is inaccurate by any measure, not the least of which is that, on average, PhD applicants have more clinical hours at application for internship.
 
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West Chester is an interesting program b/c it represents a new wave of PsyD programs.. There have been a few state school, small-cohort, science-orientated, and affordable PsyD programs recently. It feels like these are programs that would be PhDs but are not permitted due to admin issues. West Chester is part of the state system (PASSHE) in PA (Penn State is not actually a public university). My belief is that the reason West Chester doesn't have a PhD program is they likely would not have received approval from PASSHE (or locally) but a PsyD is viewed as a more applied degree and admins don't know anything.

It is a new program that has been expanding. As @cara susanna mentions they have had been looking for hires in recent years. The program's advantage is the low cost for in-state tuition. Additionally, assistanships are available but are merit-based and on a competitive basis. Outstanding candidates may get tuition remission and a small stipend.

West Chester is the largest PASSHE school and is on the outer layer of the Philly metro area. This means that if you are willing to live a bit west of West Chester you could likely find some very affordable housing. PASSHE has been going through some hard times with leadership recently but West Chester has been very well managed. I would feel comfortable recommending this school to my undergrads (as I have in the past) with 2 major caveats: 1) you never know about accreditation and 2) the bias against PsyDs in general.

There are more expensive and predatory PsyD programs in the Philly area. I would definitely never recommend those but this one is a much safer bet.

Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP) is the second largest PASSHE school. They’ve had a well regarded Psy.D. program there for decades. Actually, the reason it’s program isn’t a PhD program is supposedly because of political issues raised by the state related universities (Penn State/Pitt/Temple). It’s research curriculum and dissertation expectations are more in line with a PhD model. There have been recent rumblings that they are attempting to switch to a PhD because of West Chester’s new program. IUP has the same low (in relative terms, anyway) in state rates and GA opportunities as West Chester (exactly the same, I believe). The GA opportunities have been damaged by the chronic underfunding of PASSHE schools in recent years. Until about mid-decade they guaranteed everyone half-tuition funding and a small stipend, and many got fully funded at least some of the time. Now, everyone gets some funding, but it’s apparently not guaranteed, and it’s not always a full half.

Anyway, IUP’s program is another potential option. It’s very similar to West Chester’s in many ways, but it is more established. It’s also in the middle of no where, 90 minutes outside of Pittsburgh, which means cost of living is very very cheap. This also literally means it’s in the middle of rural nowhere, and all that does and doesn’t bring to the table.
 
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In terms of dissertations, the expectations vary between PhD and PsyDs, and as others have mentioned, PhD research standards are generally higher and more stringent, requiring original data collection and pretty much publishable-level work (although not all go on to submit a manuscript). I first learned about this difference when working alongside with PsyD folks who had to either just write a long “paper” with an in-depth case conceptualization via a theory of choice, or a research “project” that was far below the scope of what I was required to do but still difficult with zero guidance/feedback along the way from an adviser and pretty much no stats/research design courses to pull knowledge from. Another PsyD colleague just paid someone to do all stats/analyses for them, which was standard practice amongst their institution’s students, and I didn’t realize until then that that was even allowed at the doctoral level. But then again, the vast majority aren’t scientist/practitioner programs, so it makes sense that their requirements for dissertation are different.

This will vary within PsyDs, too, because a small minority (like those programs mentioned here) will have stringent dissertation standards as well.

Only a couple of employers asked about my dissertation after postdoc. The majority probably won’t ask, especially if they’re solely clinically-focused jobs.
 
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Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP) is the second largest PASSHE school.
Let's not forget that it is already accredited, which is a major advantage. I'd always recommend IUP over West Chester unless you were from the Philly area and could live at home to save money.

For those interested, another similar program is at Houston-Clear Lake. Also, not yet accredited but provides funding, small cohorts, and science-based training.
Doctor of Psychology in Health Service Psychology | University of Houston-Clear Lake

FWIW, I am in support of more high quality and affordable PsyD programs. I believe a big reason for the exploitative and profiteering programs/schools is the lack of good programs (both PsyD and PhD) throughout the country. I see the trend changing and hope it continues this way. I am always saddened when I see a productive and bright undergrad somehow receive poor mentorship and end up at a school that leaves them in ridiculous debt and with poor training.
 
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Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP) is the second largest PASSHE school. They’ve had a well regarded Psy.D. program there for decades. Actually, the reason it’s program isn’t a PhD program is supposedly because of political issues raised by the state related universities (Penn State/Pitt/Temple). It’s research curriculum and dissertation expectations are more in line with a PhD model. There have been recent rumblings that they are attempting to switch to a PhD because of West Chester’s new program. IUP has the same low (in relative terms, anyway) in state rates and GA opportunities as West Chester (exactly the same, I believe). The GA opportunities have been damaged by the chronic underfunding of PASSHE schools in recent years. Until about mid-decade they guaranteed everyone half-tuition funding and a small stipend, and many got fully funded at least some of the time. Now, everyone gets some funding, but it’s apparently not guaranteed, and it’s not always a full half.

Anyway, IUP’s program is another potential option. It’s very similar to West Chester’s in many ways, but it is more established. It’s also in the middle of no where, 90 minutes outside of Pittsburgh, which means cost of living is very very cheap. This also literally means it’s in the middle of rural nowhere, and all that does and doesn’t bring to the table.

Thank you so much for that information! I really appreciate it :)
 
All of this information was extremely helpful! I appreciate that you all take the time to come on here and offer your advice and input to prospective students. I feel more prepared to make an informed decision now after hearing about your experiences, so thank you very much :)
 
Let's not forget that it is already accredited, which is a major advantage. I'd always recommend IUP over West Chester unless you were from the Philly area and could live at home to save money.

For those interested, another similar program is at Houston-Clear Lake. Also, not yet accredited but provides funding, small cohorts, and science-based training.
Doctor of Psychology in Health Service Psychology | University of Houston-Clear Lake

FWIW, I am in support of more high quality and affordable PsyD programs. I believe a big reason for the exploitative and profiteering programs/schools is the lack of good programs (both PsyD and PhD) throughout the country. I see the trend changing and hope it continues this way. I am always saddened when I see a productive and bright undergrad somehow receive poor mentorship and end up at a school that leaves them in ridiculous debt and with poor training.
Interestingly, IUP’s PsyD program is currently on probation with APA.
 
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Some revised APA accreditation standards were recently implemented. Many of these were changed requirements for presenting outcome data (e.g., from past 7 to past 10 years, additional outcomes to present, etc.). My understanding is last summer's accreditation decisions were the first under these new guidelines and that more programs were placed on probation than has been the case previously.

Programs under probation have a year to address all issues APA determined were out of compliance. This is oversimplifying, but if it's just an issue of correcting how the data were supplied, any program currently on probation should have little issue and should be off it within a year. I know of at least one program where that was the case: they were put on probation last summer, addressed the outcome data issues in an updated response, and are already off probation.

If there are issues with the data itself (i.e., the program's outcomes are not up to snuff), these programs on probation are likely to lose accreditation. Either way, there should be some clarity soon.

APA doesn't publicly disclose the issues a program was determined to be out of compliance with, but each program gets a letter noting which standards are met and not met.
 
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Some revised APA accreditation standards were recently implemented. Many of these were changed requirements for presenting outcome data (e.g., from past 7 to past 10 years, additional outcomes to present, etc.). My understanding is last summer's accreditation decisions were the first under these new guidelines and that more programs were placed on probation than has been the case previously.

I find it hard to believe it’s just about outcome reporting. APA sends a show cause notification, and then there is a process for coming up to standards before the “on probation” designation is given. If it is just about website reporting and things aren’t fixed in time, I’m not sure that’s a good sign either.
 
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I find it hard to believe it’s just about outcome reporting. APA sends a show cause notification, and then there is a process for coming up to standards before the “on probation” designation is given. If it is just about website reporting and things aren’t fixed in time, I’m not sure that’s a good sign either.

To clarify: I'm referring to data on outcomes submitted to APA, not those public tables of data per se. There are issues related to reporting particular data to APA and demonstrating how you will acquire and use that data in the future.

Programs aren't thrown on probation just automatically like you said, though: any issues are noted during or after an APA site visit with some response time allotted before an actual decision on accreditation is made. Any program put on probation will have known why and have been given prior opportunity to address whatever issues were noted.

For what it's worth (Hearsay Anecdote N = 1), the program I was referring to that's now off probation hired a consultant in preparing their response to being put on probation. The consultant was previously on the Board of Accreditation and said they were surprised that program was put on probation. Whether that was based on APA's response or the actual state of their materials, I'm not sure.
 
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To clarify: I'm referring to data on outcomes submitted to APA, not those public tables of data per se. There are issues related to reporting particular data to APA and demonstrating how you will acquire and use that data in the future.

Programs aren't thrown on probation just automatically like you said, though: any issues are noted during or after an APA site visit with some response time allotted before an actual decision on accreditation is made. Any program put on probation will have known why and have been given prior opportunity to address whatever issues were noted.

For what it's worth (Hearsay Anecdote N = 1), the program I was referring to that's now off probation hired a consultant in preparing their response to being put on probation. The consultant was previously on the Board of Accreditation and said they were surprised that program was put on probation. Whether that was based on APA's response or the actual state of their materials, I'm not sure.

Thank you for the information! So if a program is on probation, does that affect current students in the program as far as applying for internships and/or having graduated from an accredited program?
 
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