-
CycleTrack and SDN are teaming up to make medical school admissions more transparent and accessible! Read the announcement to learn how we’re supporting the future of CycleTrack’s free application-tracking tools .
West Virginia's 3rd pharmacy school gets precandidate status.
Started by WVUPharm2007
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
But how many of them will actually stay and live there. Hell, you moved to Philly.
Because he could not find a job.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
This is great news indeed. They should really give accreditation to my local community college for a pharmacy program... High schools are next.
This is absolutely ridiculous. This profession is heading down towards a black hole thanks to ACPE. This is just unbelievable. The worst thing is that schools will continue opening up and ACPE will continue granting accreditation until no one can get any jobs then the market will have to adjust itself.
This is absolute DISASTER in my opinion.
This is absolute DISASTER in my opinion.
It's official:
Pharmacy School = Law School
Too many graduates + new schools = $80,000 (or lower) annual salary for pharmacists in the future. Remember that thread you guys? 🙁
Having said that, I'm not going to run away from pharmacy school. Can't wait for this fall.
Pharmacy School = Law School
Too many graduates + new schools = $80,000 (or lower) annual salary for pharmacists in the future. Remember that thread you guys? 🙁
Having said that, I'm not going to run away from pharmacy school. Can't wait for this fall.
Oh no!! How ever will you survive on such a meager salary? We have been overpaid for a long time, it would correct itself sooner or later.
Blasphemous. Unless the pharmacy school tuition goes down, we deserve high salaries (90 to 110k). But I want more money. MORE
http://gothamist.com/2012/06/25/law_school_diplomas_great_for_fanni.php
Lucky if even 80k. Hoping for the best though.
Lucky if even 80k. Hoping for the best though.
Blasphemous. Unless the pharmacy school tuition goes down, we deserve high salaries (90 to 110k). But I want more money. MORE
You don't deserve anything, get off the entitlement train. Your Desire to take on excessive amounts of debt has no impact on your future salary.
This is so true. I have a friend who went to wash university for social work and has a debt of 80k.. You has to be fiscally responsible and take into account your earning potential.
ACPE does not care. Instead of raising the bar to limit new schools and increase quality of education, they sit on their rear behinds and say they cannot limit due to anti-trust laws. It's a shame since ACPE is full of pharmacists who do not even care about their own profession.
The balls? What, are they going to use their evil wizardry powers to give me herpes or something?
I don't call because I know damn well its a waste of time.
There we go.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Geez, I thought the meanie icon is used to indicate sarcasm/joke
Don't want to start another argument about salary issues, but I want pharmacists to be paid reasonably. A sudden decrease in salary (let's say 105k to 75-80 k) sounds a bit disturbing to me.
Horrible comparison. That friend of yours had plenty of schools to choose from (state schools) and could have gone to a cheaper school. Instead he/she went to WashU (I guess for prestige) and ended up w/ a ridiculous amt of debt for a social worker.
How many pharmacy schools are public? Maybe alot in TX, midwest, but not in northeast. Even the in-state tuition has risen substantially (CA). NJ with only one state school that is extremely hard to get in to. And plenty of private schools with PRIVATE school tuition.
Switch to dentist as your profession. They have god like immunity because they care about their livelihood. Dentists are big political players.
Plus, How else can you make $3000 in 2 hours work doing a tooth implant?
Not a bad suggestion at all. However, let's try and fix the situation at hand.
For those of you who think some of us have not spoken out, think again. I personally spoke with ACPE executive director, Peter Vlasses, at a conference with regards to this issue and he absolutely does not care. In fact, he even emphasizes in his presentations that they will not regulate the number of pharmacy schools / graduates and will not even consider addressing the issue.
Right, as we have discussed on here ad nauseam, they do not have the power to regulate the number. If it meets their criteria, they give it the stamp of approval, if it doesn't meet the criteria, it does not get accreditation. Nothing more, nothing less. However, I'm sure the criteria are not very hard to meet, since you rarely hear anything about schools not making it or losing their status.
Exactly. That's why I hope that somehow ACPE will increase the standards they have for pharmacy schools and hold schools that do not meet those standards accountable. I rarely see the ACPE punish schools for not meeting standards besides that one incident with Texas Southern University a few years ago. Students complained because the faculty were trying to increase their standards which led to a few people getting kicked out due to failing 4-5 classes in 1 semester. If you take a look at their criteria, many of them are recommended but not required. Hence why education / curriculum can vary vastly from school to school.
Compare that to medical school where the curriculum is tightly regulated. UTHSCSA was on probation because their curriculum was too lecture-based and not enough problem-solving. One of the only differences that I can think of is how they approach the material and prestige of a school. I'm not 100% sure but its something along those lines.
My good friend and a colleague was instrumental in getting Marshall Pharmacy School started. I respect him as a pharmacist. But I hate what he did.
As I sit back and look at why he helped this school get started, there's no doubt in my mind everyone did it to accomplish their personal goals and to satisfy their sense of achievement. What they couldn't careless is the fact there's no need for another pharmacy school or that this endeavor was equivalent to self decapitation.
Where's the altruism towards pharmacy? Does anyone have it or is it every man for himself?
"Did I do the right thing today" and "Is that the right thing to do for our profession" aren't the questions we ask ourselves everyday.
New Pharm.D. programs and educators are the defunct mortgage banks and brokers of our profession. The only difference is that the financial market can correct itself. This education bubble will not.
As I sit back and look at why he helped this school get started, there's no doubt in my mind everyone did it to accomplish their personal goals and to satisfy their sense of achievement. What they couldn't careless is the fact there's no need for another pharmacy school or that this endeavor was equivalent to self decapitation.
Where's the altruism towards pharmacy? Does anyone have it or is it every man for himself?
"Did I do the right thing today" and "Is that the right thing to do for our profession" aren't the questions we ask ourselves everyday.
New Pharm.D. programs and educators are the defunct mortgage banks and brokers of our profession. The only difference is that the financial market can correct itself. This education bubble will not.
I'm currently taking a business ethics class in my MBA. I am asking myself those questions everyday...at least till the end of the quarter
I'm currently taking a business ethics class in my MBA. I am asking myself those questions everyday...at least till the end of the quarter
Do the right thing... bring me my coffee, intern.
Isn't it a waste of time because ACPE can't control the number of schools opening? Isn't their sole purpose simply to ensure schools are not granted any kind of accreditation unless they meet certain criteria? As long as the paperwork is in order, ACPE must do their job.
Agreed. So what can be done to stop it? APhA and ASHP are basically powerless, and ACPE is just doing its job. It's apparent that these new schools could give a crap about peer pressure.
Agreed. So what can be done to stop it? APhA and ASHP are basically powerless, and ACPE is just doing its job. It's apparent that these new schools could give a crap about peer pressure.
Exactly. Just look at UNTHSC pharmacy school that is opening up next year. They are still playing the "shortage" game.
Worth pointing out to those not in on it: The Deans of the other 6 schools in Texas generated a report with a stated summary that Texas did not need a 7th school.
UNT: lolwut
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I mean what are the accreditation agencies supposed to do. They cant legally set quotas on the number of pharmacy schools. All they do is set the guidelines for pharmacy schools to get accredited. If a school meets the guidelines, they can have a pharmacy program. The only thing the agencies can do is to make more stringent accreditation guidelines that will effect all schools.I think the current guidelines are an overshoot as it is for people who want to work in retail. What more can they do? There is a four year lag between market factors and pharmacy schools. Free market will hopefully appropriate the proper factors into their rightful place (look at how well that worked out for law schools 🙄)
APhA would probably have to be the organization to loudly say "enough is enough," repeatedly and loudly.
Okay, but can they realistically set quotas on the number of pharmacy schools? I don't know but I don't think so.
I can't wait to hear what happens at AACP. I can't go this year, unfortunately.
Not even a Pharm. D. but a Ph.D with no background on clinical aspects of pharmacy whatsoever.
Directly quoted from their website, "...and a successful entrepreneur and businessman." I don't think I need to say any more.
That's what I have been saying in the last few posts I made.
They are catering to the masses and not what is best for the profession. (graduating better pharmacists than those before them)
APhA will need to grow a spine and do it quickly. At the rate it is going, it will be no better than the ABA.
He came from our school from the pharmacology/toxicology department.
Haha but I am saying the exact opposite. They should not raise the educational standards.I think that a retail pharmacist is over trained as it is. What more could we possibly need to know to do our jobs?
Maybe there is a conspiracy to create more pharmacists so that states can create pharmacist practitioner positions to offset the physician shortage and give pharmacists the much coveted prescriptive authroity 😉
The blame is squarely on the duly sworn and registered pharmacists that are taking the jobs are these new schools.
Fact: The school could not open if pharmacists would unite and refuse to work at new schools as a professor or lecturer.
Fact: Without faculty the school could not gain ACPE accrediation
What we have are all the new residents unable to find hospital employment (of course because we pump out too many residents) who will naturally refuse to work on the slave galley, err, community pharmacy, who take these jobs because they "want to use their education".
We see the problem and the problem is us.
Fact: The school could not open if pharmacists would unite and refuse to work at new schools as a professor or lecturer.
Fact: Without faculty the school could not gain ACPE accrediation
What we have are all the new residents unable to find hospital employment (of course because we pump out too many residents) who will naturally refuse to work on the slave galley, err, community pharmacy, who take these jobs because they "want to use their education".
We see the problem and the problem is us.
On a side note, at least Marshall is a long-standing accredited university with a long history. It's not a for-profit standalone pharmacy school like some of those bastardizations in California or Illiniois.
Do the right thing... bring me my coffee, intern.
I'd bring you fresh baked madeleines every morning and do a French press on your desk but somebody isn't taking residents till 2016 🙄
Thanks for proving my point. He is not a pharmacist but a Ph.D with minimal/zero knowledge on clinical pharmacy practice.
That mentality is exactly where one of the roots of the problem lies. People just want to go to school, get their Pharm. D.'s, then work the standard 9 to 5. No one wants to ask for more to better themselves as pharmacists and utilize the skills they were trained to do in school. If you want to be a glorified pill counter and that's it, become a technician.
Seriously, why do you think the nursing voice is so strong despite just being mid-level practitioners? It's because they want to do more and better themselves as professional healthcare providers. I'm not going to argue about the DNP's wanting to be equivalent as MD's as that is a completely different topic.
Actually, they aren't getting retail jobs because they are 1-2 years out of school and new grads with recent experience as retail interns are better than them. The old "I can always just do retail" fallback is gone now. Sorry...not the case anymore. Granted, I went from 50/50 clinical/staff to retail, but I'm pretty sure in this economy, I'm the exception.
I did nothing of the sort. You actually don't know how much clinical information he knows or doesn't know. You're making an assumption.
This.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
4
474671
There's a school in FL that opened recently (not naming names here 😛), who has a Pharm.D as dean, who knows so little about the accreditation process and prospects in pharmacy outside of his own (granted he does do some awesome stuff in Ambulatory care/ hospital settings), that the accreditation visit was during the LAST week of classes of the first professional year. Honestly, knowledge doesn't necessarily depend on the degree (I agree with Lea). He also had zero idea about my desired field in pharmacy, and was trying to convince me that double degrees would be here in like a year (I know full well that he can't even develop the curriculum for them until they have full accreditation, let alone accept students into such a program!) Florida is also getting another school but they won't start for 2-4 years. They really need to raise the standards for schools.
My school (candidate status at the time) had a PharmD/MBA program before they were granted full accreditation.
Fact: You can never control decisions on an individual level, especially if you are telling people to not accept jobs in a saturated market.
Well i completely disagree with your first point. Some pharmacists (including myself) do want to do more but there simply is no way they can because of the system they work in. System cannot change unless legislation is changed which cannot change unless we organize better
.How can you stereotype an entire profession? Saying that pharmacists do not want to better themselves and nurses do. Nurses have a stronger voice because they are well organized. Pharmacists do not seem to have the ability to organize it seems. Even stronger than nurses is the AMA. It literally is probably the most strongest institution in healthcare today. Why? Because they are extremely well organized and work in a system where they have much to offer in terms of patient care.
4
474671
really? Thanks for clarifying that. I'm trying to find info on the particulars on accrediting dual programs on ACPE and AACP sites but no such luck. He's thinking things like MD/PharmD and PharmD/JD (with no as yet existing law program) though.
The university I attended already had an accredited MBA program, so I don't think ACPE really had any say over that to begin with. AACP isn't an accrediting agency.
And why would anyone deliberately do MD/PharmD? I know people who've made the switch, but what's the utility of having both degrees?
