Western Elective Bad Experience

[Mahk]

A little while ago I rotated at Western for an elective. Since then I've completed most of my other away electives and the differences are just stark. Even though I'm a very polite and responsible person (so I tried not to stay out of other peoples business and just do my job as well as possible), I just couldn't believe how some of the doctors treated the patients and visiting students-like garbage!

In particular, there was one doctor in charge of the visiting students (Endocrinology dept, London, ON) that make the rudest gestures and comments about the overweight patients (half the patients have diabetes....which is why there were put in her care....so that shouldn't be a shock to her). She constantly made condescending comments about GPs and anyone not from Western. It was just unbelievable... anyway, I'm just writing this because after all my rotations, I hadn't seen anyone quite as bad as that and wanted to say that it's not normal. If I said anything, no matter how polite, she would bark at me like an an angry dog. Just unbelievable.

I'll keep this short but stay away from Western!!!!

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[onelastpuff23]

Thanks for your comments. But these are comments you should tell Western staff. They need to make sure their staff are professional. I would do it anonymously as well.

 

[Mahk]

Thanks for your comments. But these are comments you should tell Western staff. They need to make sure their staff are professional. I would do it anonymously as well.

I would have if there was some way to give feedback on anything, but they just don't want to hear it. Anyway, I wanted to leave this here in case it was useful to someone.

 

[onelastpuff23]

I would have if there was some way to give feedback on anything, but they just don't want to hear it. Anyway, I wanted to leave this here in case it was useful to someone.

Tell your home university They should helph

 

[Dr_Kat_Lady]

A little while ago I rotated at Western for an elective. Since then I've completed most of my other away electives and the differences are just stark. Even though I'm a very polite and responsible person (so I tried not to stay out of other peoples business and just do my job as well as possible), I just couldn't believe how some of the doctors treated the patients and visiting students-like garbage!

In particular, there was one doctor in charge of the visiting students (Endocrinology dept, London, ON) that make the rudest gestures and comments about the overweight patients (half the patients have diabetes....which is why there were put in her care....so that shouldn't be a shock to her). She constantly made condescending comments about GPs and anyone not from Western. It was just unbelievable... anyway, I'm just writing this because after all my rotations, I hadn't seen anyone quite as bad as that and wanted to say that it's not normal. If I said anything, no matter how polite, she would bark at me like an an angry dog. Just unbelievable.

I'll keep this short but stay away from Western!!!!

I hear ya

 

[Medstart108]

That was not my experience or anyone I know's experience at Western. I think you were just really unfortunate.

 

[Dr_Kat_Lady]

That was not my experience or anyone I know's experience at Western. I think you were just really unfortunate.

I beg to differ. My experience was unfortunately very similar even though I didn't go the extra effort to start a post about it. It was kind of comforting that it wasn't just me, actually. If you had a better one then maybe you were lucky.

 

[Mahk]

I beg to differ. My experience was unfortunately very similar even though I didn't go the extra effort to start a post about it. It was kind of comforting that it wasn't just me, actually. If you had a better one then maybe you were lucky.

I was so disgusted by the way things were done but I kept my cool the whole way through because that's really hard to come into as a visiting student. I'm sorry you had to see something like that too. Actually, I'm REALLY sorry for the patients.

 

[Medstart108]

I don't disagree with this post but I do disagree with the comment "stay away from Western". You are making a conclusion your paragraph does not support.

I know a lot of medical students who did electives there since I am from a Canadian medical school. I've never heard of anything like this. Each elective is different. Unfortunately, sometimes, you do end up with bad preceptors and they exist at every school. I can assure you that the majority of preceptors are not bad, however there are some at every school who have ways of thinking and acting that are not healthy, I myself have experienced these bad preceptors through medical school.

To those who are reading this thread, do electives where you can and where you want to go, don't let anecdotal evidence stop you. I think the take home message of this should be that not all electives go as well as you would have liked and it is very very preceptor dependent.

 

[memberberries]

I was so disgusted by the way things were done but I kept my cool the whole way through because that's really hard to come into as a visiting student. I'm sorry you had to see something like that too. Actually, I'm REALLY sorry for the patients.

Dr. Charlotte McDonald Yup!!! Same thing while I was there. Honestly, the other physicians and fellows didn't fall far from there but I can see what you mean...same thing while I was there and she would not quit on the GP comments, nor the patient specific insults. It makes me wonder what exactly she was saying about me but I'm sure I could guess. She is the poor but proud Canadian system embodied. Inefficient, insulting, and racist.

 

[rcZa]

A little while ago I rotated at Western for an elective. Since then I've completed most of my other away electives and the differences are just stark. Even though I'm a very polite and responsible person (so I tried not to stay out of other peoples business and just do my job as well as possible), I just couldn't believe how some of the doctors treated the patients and visiting students-like garbage!

In particular, there was one doctor in charge of the visiting students (Endocrinology dept, London, ON) that make the rudest gestures and comments about the overweight patients (half the patients have diabetes....which is why there were put in her care....so that shouldn't be a shock to her). She constantly made condescending comments about GPs and anyone not from Western. It was just unbelievable... anyway, I'm just writing this because after all my rotations, I hadn't seen anyone quite as bad as that and wanted to say that it's not normal. If I said anything, no matter how polite, she would bark at me like an an angry dog. Just unbelievable.

I'll keep this short but stay away from Western!!!!

I know that this post is a little bit old but I wanted to comment because this is my reality day in and day out, although I don't think it is unique to Western... I'm sure that this will get some dislikes but from my experience this is all of Canada (and I'm sure someone will try to say it's like this everywhere etc.. but I can't stress this enough). I will say that I have some international experience to compare with Western (I made an effort to get clinical experience in the US and the EU) and there is a very different work environment in Canada. Everyone here judges you by where you came from (Toronto, Queens, Vancouver, Newfoundland...) and NO ONE will admit to a need for improvement in the system. In the US, they always said something along the lines of "we're not perfect but we can and will do better, so lets make sure never to repeat "xyz" again". I can't stress how much integrity that takes. Biggest mistake of my life was staying here. I wish I was 5 years younger and told myself to get the hell out of Canada. If you want to be a doctor, don't be in Canada. You will just waste your talents and your life on our dead-end career trajectory. Fyi I've lived(born)/studied in Canada my whole life aside from those efforts to get some international experience. It's a complete mind-f*** to realize how behind we are in health care.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I know that this post is a little bit old but I wanted to comment because this is my reality day in and day out, although I don't think it is unique to Western... I'm sure that this will get some dislikes but from my experience this is all of Canada (and I'm sure someone will try to say it's like this everywhere etc.. but I can't stress this enough). I will say that I have some international experience to compare with Western (I made an effort to get clinical experience in the US and the EU) and there is a very different work environment in Canada. Everyone here judges you by where you came from (Toronto, Queens, Vancouver, Newfoundland...) and NO ONE will admit to a need for improvement in the system. In the US, they always said something along the lines of "we're not perfect but we can and will do better, so lets make sure never to repeat "xyz" again". I can't stress how much integrity that takes. Biggest mistake of my life was staying here. I wish I was 5 years younger and told myself to get the hell out of Canada. If you want to be a doctor, don't be in Canada. You will just waste your talents and your life on our dead-end career trajectory. Fyi I've lived(born)/studied in Canada my whole life aside from those efforts to get some international experience. It's a complete mind-f*** to realize how behind we are in health care.

huh? Where else have you been outside of Canada that was so great? Do you have any idea what clinical training is like on the outside?

 

[Medstart108]

I know that this post is a little bit old but I wanted to comment because this is my reality day in and day out, although I don't think it is unique to Western... I'm sure that this will get some dislikes but from my experience this is all of Canada (and I'm sure someone will try to say it's like this everywhere etc.. but I can't stress this enough). I will say that I have some international experience to compare with Western (I made an effort to get clinical experience in the US and the EU) and there is a very different work environment in Canada. Everyone here judges you by where you came from (Toronto, Queens, Vancouver, Newfoundland...) and NO ONE will admit to a need for improvement in the system. In the US, they always said something along the lines of "we're not perfect but we can and will do better, so lets make sure never to repeat "xyz" again". I can't stress how much integrity that takes. Biggest mistake of my life was staying here. I wish I was 5 years younger and told myself to get the hell out of Canada. If you want to be a doctor, don't be in Canada. You will just waste your talents and your life on our dead-end career trajectory. Fyi I've lived(born)/studied in Canada my whole life aside from those efforts to get some international experience. It's a complete mind-f*** to realize how behind we are in health care.

You raise some good points. Canada does have a very small town mentality in a sense where we compare amongst our own cities, and we look down on other countries. Part of the issue is that doctors in Canada are very well paid and rewarded compared to other countries and we see people trying to "get in" our system all the time. The other issue is that Canadians as a whole have made our national healthcare system a source of pride when compared to the US, sometimes to our own detriment, because we fail to see the need to reform it. We often use the crutch of saying, well at least we are better than the US, whenever any criticism is lobbied against our system.

Where I disagree with you is the issue of friendliness and kindness, I hear the opposite. Many people say Canadian doctors are much nicer to each other than in the US. It depends on your own personal experience for sure, but that is what I've heard, that there is more verbal abuse there than here.

However, I would caution against conflating your own inability to get into the Canadian medical system with the faults of the Canadian healthcare system. Unfortunately, we have an inflated ego due to the higher than average physician salaries as well as a system that tries to slow the flow of foreign physicians into Canada. This is to the point that many of our own Canadians like yourself are going abroad because they can't get into medical school in Canada.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

You raise some good points. Canada does have a very small town mentality in a sense where we compare amongst our own cities, and we look down on other countries. Part of the issue is that doctors in Canada are very well paid and rewarded compared to other countries and we see people trying to "get in" our system all the time. The other issue is that Canadians as a whole have made our national healthcare system a source of pride when compared to the US, sometimes to our own detriment, because we fail to see the need to reform it. We often use the crutch of saying, well at least we are better than the US, whenever any criticism is lobbied against our system.

Where I disagree with you is the issue of friendliness and kindness, I hear the opposite. Many people say Canadian doctors are much nicer to each other than in the US. It depends on your own personal experience for sure, but that is what I've heard, that there is more verbal abuse there than here.

However, I would caution against conflating your own inability to get into the Canadian medical system with the faults of the Canadian healthcare system. Unfortunately, we have an inflated ego due to the higher than average physician salaries as well as a system that tries to slow the flow of foreign physicians into Canada. This is to the point that many of our own Canadians like yourself are going abroad because they can't get into medical school in Canada.

If they let in more doctors, it would further saturate the already saturated market. Do you propose creating *more* unemployed doctors? There's already a lot of them.

 

[Medstart108]

If they let in more doctors, it would further saturate the already saturated market. Do you propose creating *more* unemployed doctors? There's already a lot of them.

Never implied anything of the sort. Just stated the truth is all.