Western University POD - Statistics and post interview thoughts...

[MaseratiGT]

I believe system based learning is gaining popularity and is the new norm.

However Barry and OCPM are still doing it the old way-whatever it is called. I mean do the courses overlap- do you learn the system in different classes at the same time? I mean you take the Physio of a system in one semester and one year later you learn the pathology of it and how it can go wrong? I would definitely hate the learn that way.

I believe the basic sciences of system based curriculum are spread out throughout all the systems and learned system by system.

True, you won't know how to deliver a baby until you learn the procedure during rotations. For some reason, I was envisioning delivering a baby during residency and skipping rotations.

The DOs take the COMLEX. I was aware of this; however, thye take the USMLE if they want a MD residency, which of course, all of them do. In the end, they end up taking both.

I believe same education equals parity. Taking the USMLE is a major step towards having the same education-especially since there is a new podiatry program at one of the best DO schools in the country.

By the way, Barry had externships on their curriculum, what are they?

Almost all of the schools use course learning, not system based. So yes, that means that you take the entire physiology of the body in one semester. Then in another semester, you learn the pathology of all the systems. I like this approach. I wouldn't want to have to wade through 10,343 books to back study for the biochem section on the boards. I feel like it's easier if it's all in one spot.

I would disagree with you that ALL D.O. students end up taking both the USLME and COMLEX. Not all D.O.s want an allopathic residency. There are a lot of solid osteopathic residencies out there.

Lastly, an exam won't get the profession to parity. Competency will. Competency is recognized through education. Because some of our schools are sitting in with osteopathic students, that is a great start. Having instructors who rotate through other medical schools, then teach podiatry students is also good. Our boards focus on the lower extremity. We don't take some courses as detailed as some osteopathic students. There is a thread here somewhere; it has the first two years at DMU, I believe. In the second year, the D.O. students are taking things like ob-gyn in much greater detail than what the pod student takes. Basically, our education is different, and our boards reflect that. Luckily, I haven't heard the APMA considering switching to the USMLE for a couple years now, and even then, it sounded like fluff.

As for externships - all schools have externships in the fourth year. It's when you travel to hospitals you want to consider for residency, and work/learn for a month. It allows the clerk and residency program to see if they like each other.

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[MaseratiGT]

http://www.dmu.edu/cpms/pm/curriculum/images/dpm_student_schedule.jpg
http://www.dmu.edu/com/do/curriculum/images/do_strip_chart.jpg

These are the rubrics for both schools. You can see that the osteos are required to take ob,to stick with the example, yet the pods are not. It doesn't make us any less a doctor. It just streamlines and specializes us. We aren't equipped to take the USMLE.

 

[Darklord]

If you don't understand there's nothing I can do. Perhaps, I'm not articulate enough. Maybe you should read other threads on the forum that explore this topic. I really don't know why I am arguing this anyway. I mean I haven't learned anything, except for the fact that most podiatry schools have the semester semester system, which horrendously sucks. I recommend googling the first MD school you can think of. Chances are that the medical school is operating somewhat on a system based learned system.

Anyway this is my last shot. Endocrinologists have a unique niche in the health system. So do urologists, cardiologists maybe? Notice they all have MDs. What if cardiologists decided they wanted their own MD because they are different. They just focus on the heart right. It should be the CMD (Cardiology MD). Urology should be the UMD right?

That is stupid. They all take the same classes in medical school. Residencies are what set them apart. They all take the USMLE and take the Board exams to prove their proficiency in their respective subject.

We, as podiatrists, take all of their classes as well (at Western anyway). Why not take the USMLE? It will prove our competency and will be a step towards equality. Since when to exams NOT prove competency MaseratiGT? Isn’t that the purpose of an exam?! To prove competency in a subject.

The rest of your comments MaseratiGT argue semantics. Yes, not all DO students will take the USMLE, but the vast majority will.

As for readdressing your argument, I believe we should make podiatry not so different during medical school. Like I said, pretty much all other specialties (other then dentistry, but I don‘t really consider them physicians), do it the normal medical school + residency way.

So then, MaseratiGT, what makes an externship different from a rotation?

 

[PodunkUDPM]

So then, MaseratiGT, what makes an externship different from a rotation?

There is a HUGE difference. Maybe when you learn more about podiatry and medicine, and you go through the process yourself, you will understand more about other peoples opinions on the entire process as well. Everything Maserati has said has been right on!

 

[templepodnc]

It will prove our competency and will be a step towards equality.

Taking the exam does not prove equality in my opinion. What score on the exam do you think would be accepted as being "equal" to the MDs? Since podiatry is a surgical speciality should the Pods be getting the same scores as Orthos then?

I've said this before, taking the same exams are stupid to me. Having uniformed training and equal pay should be all that matters. If you are so concerned about being "equal" to a MD then just go get your MD.

Chances are that the medical school is operating somewhat on a system based learned system

You are correct, DO school is known for that being the structure of their teaching. It isn't as common as you make it out to be for MD schools. I know a ton of MD schools that are on that "horribly sucky" semester schedule.

And maybe I missed it but where is Lower Extremity Anatomy in the Western curriculum? If they do not have a class dedicated solely to that then their students are screwed.

 

[244869]

Anyway this is my last shot. Endocrinologists have a unique niche in the health system. So do urologists, cardiologists maybe? Notice they all have MDs. What if cardiologists decided they wanted their own MD because they are different. They just focus on the heart right. It should be the CMD (Cardiology MD). Urology should be the UMD right?

That is stupid. They all take the same classes in medical school. Residencies are what set them apart. They all take the USMLE and take the Board exams to prove their proficiency in their respective subject.

We, as podiatrists, take all of their classes as well (at Western anyway). Why not take the USMLE? It will prove our competency and will be a step towards equality. Since when to exams NOT prove competency MaseratiGT? Isn't that the purpose of an exam?! To prove competency in a subject.

A urologist cannot practice urology out of med school but a podiatrist can practice many aspects of podiatry out of pod school. The residency pods attend are for the surgical side of podiatry. In school training is similar but there is a focus on lower extremity in pod school. This is the difference and this is why the usmle would not be good for pods.

 

[Darklord]

A urologist cannot practice urology out of med school but a podiatrist can practice many aspects of podiatry out of pod school. The residency pods attend are for the surgical side of podiatry. In school training is similar but there is a focus on lower extremity in pod school. This is the difference and this is why the usmle would not be good for pods.

Isn't it like in 48 states, podiatrists cannot practice without residency. You must have completed residency. It is not like dentistry. You see to have a lot of misinformation. I understand that you learn palliative care in podiatry school and don't learn surgery, but you still can't practice even palliative care, unless you live in those two states.



There is a HUGE difference. Maybe when you learn more about podiatry and medicine, and you go through the process yourself, you will understand more about other peoples opinions on the entire process as well. Everything Maserati has said has been right on!

I’ve formed my own opinions based on what I have read from other podiatry students on this forum. Except, I believe, of course, that the USMLE would be a step towards equality.


I've said this before, taking the same exams are stupid to me. Having uniformed training and equal pay should be all that matters. If you are so concerned about being "equal" to a MD then just go get your MD.

You can’t prove equal training, except through exams. Don’t you know about grade inflation? They teach us this stuff in high school. That’s why the MCAT, SAT, ACT, GREs exist. The only way to prove equal training is through taking the same exam. Nobody wants to go through four years of school without having equality with your MD counterpart. I think that's why I am arguing this. Insults, especially if they are illogical, don't really contribute to your argument. They actually detract from it.

You are correct, DO school is known for that being the structure of their teaching. It isn't as common as you make it out to be for MD schools. I know a ton of MD schools that are on that "horribly sucky" semester schedule.

And maybe I missed it but where is Lower Extremity Anatomy in the Western curriculum? If they do not have a class dedicated solely to that then their students are screwed.


I don’t know about the lower anatomy classes. I will look into that though. Please name some of the ton of MD schools. Chances are they teach at least partially by system.

 

[244869]

Isn't it like in 48 states, podiatrists cannot practice without residency. You must have completed residency. It is not like dentistry. You see to have a lot of misinformation. I understand that you learn palliative care in podiatry school and don't learn surgery, but you still can't practice even palliative care, unless you live in those two states.

What i meant was the knowledge to practice non surgical podiatry. MD specialties do not learn urology, cardiology, etc. in depth in med school. They learn the basic sciences with no focus on that particular specialty whereas podiatry focuses on lower extremity from day 1.

This is not MD/DO school...this is podiatry school. Why should podiatry students take MD or DO board exams? From an educational point of view it makes no sense. And the "to gain parity" debate...this is something you dont understand. The debate is about equal reimbursement not equal education. Only those with in inferiority complex think that podiatry education < med school education. Fact is they are similar and yet different and therefore must have different board exams.

 

[templepodnc]

You can’t prove equal training, except through exams. Don’t you know about grade inflation? They teach us this stuff in high school. That’s why the MCAT, SAT, ACT, GREs exist. The only way to prove equal training is through taking the same exam

The MCAT does not measure competency in my opinion. It is a test designed to see how well you think and can analyze. Does one person's higher score on the MCAT mean they have a better understanding of Organic or Biology? I don't believe that.

Same goes for the SATs. They don't prove competency.

I’ve formed my own opinions based on what I have read from other podiatry students on this forum.

If this is the only place you get information to form your opinion then you should really do more research on issues before you speak. This forum is a great place to exchange ideas but it is not a great place to do your only research on a topic.

Nobody wants to go through four years of school without having equality with your MD counterpart.

It happens every year. All MDs do not have equality. They have the same basic foundation but once they specialize they are all their own doctor with different areas of focus and scope.

How does merely taking the USMLE prove equal training?

Insults, especially if they are illogical, don't really contribute to your argument. They actually detract from it.

Good thing I didn't insult you. I offered you some advice that can save you a lot of headache and money before you go into podiatry trying to be equal to MDs. If you want to over read into it and take it as an insult thats your own deal.

The debate is about equal reimbursement not equal education. Only those with in inferiority complex think that podiatry education < med school education. Fact is they are similar and yet different and therefore must have different board exams.

Well said. I'm not even sure why I am taking time to respond to a high school student when they have not graduated from high school, or even completed one course towards the requirements to apply to med school.

 

[air bud]

PEOPLE, don't waste your time, darklord is a 16 year old kid.

 

[Darklord]

To the contrary I have taken a couple of prerequisites.

I was getting quite tired of arguing also, it's just fun to refresh the page while I'm writing my research paper.

And you guys keep on arguing semantics... which is lame...

 

[244869]

To the contrary I have taken a couple of prerequisites.

I was getting quite tired of arguing also, it's just fun to refresh the page while I'm writing my research paper.

And you guys keep on arguing semantics... which is lame...

If we are arguing semantics then why change the type of board exams pods take?

Dont change it. But i think they should start releasing the scores instead of a pass/fail.

 

[Darklord]

Arguing semantics means arguing about a side point of an argument such as a flawed or incorrect example.

I don't know how that relates to what you posted.

Of course my argument is that we should move forward.

 

[244869]

Arguing semantics means arguing about a side point of an argument such as a flawed or incorrect example.

I don't know how that relates to what you posted.

Of course my argument is that we should move forward.

I know what semantics mean.

Move forward? more like a sidestep...

 

[capo]

http://www.dmu.edu/cpms/pm/curriculum/images/dpm_student_schedule.jpg
http://www.dmu.edu/com/do/curriculum/images/do_strip_chart.jpg

These are the rubrics for both schools. You can see that the osteos are required to take ob,to stick with the example, yet the pods are not. It doesn't make us any less a doctor. It just streamlines and specializes us. We aren't equipped to take the USMLE.

Perfect point.

All that is needed to practice Podiatry is passing the Podiatric boards. Always has been, always will (should) be. Other than ego, there is really no bonafide need to take USMLE's. What purpose would this serve? To elongate DPM education, only to serve a cause rather than to utilize this extended knowledge on treating patients, is unnecessary. I hardly see this proposed ideal as a boost to income or prestige, either.

Since its inception these boards have qualified Podiatry in the eyes of the medical community. Again, adding to this by claiming the need for additional hoops to jump through (solely for some "status" need) is a literal waste of time and effort better served focusing on being the best foot specialist you can be. This isn't about proving what you can STILL learn outside your scope/breadth, but rather using what you have ALREADY learned in your craft/specialty of foot and ankle surgery.

 

[streetsweeper]

The debate is about equal reimbursement not equal education.

That's right. The whole parity issue comes down to money, not education. We are already recognized as the experts in foot & ankle pathologies. Podiatrists provide quality "physician" services in their treatment of patients with foot & ankle problems. Medicare already defined us as physicians but medicaid defines our services as "optional medical services" rather than "physician services" (something like that). And the result is we get MD/DO physicians who get paid more than us for subpar treatment of foot & ankle pathologies. We see it all the time with FA orthopods performing crappy ankle fusions but they get paid significantly more than a podiatrist who would perform the same procedure beautifully, with better outcomes.

 

[Darklord]

The way I see it is: you have learned the material, so you might as well prove on on MLEs.

No matter what you consider yourselves you are a physician first and a podiatrist second. I don't see the need to fast track classes like OB and GYN because all other physicians take them and learn them very seriously, even if they are pursuing unrelated fields. Main point: all physicians take them, except for podiatrists.

I don't see why you are valuing your podiatry boards so much, especially the USMLE tests everything except for the podiatry classes, which board certification can take of.

I wasn't arguing for the reimbursement. You, DPMHopeful, didn't mention it, except for that one comment at the end.

How about you move to state that acknowledges podiatrists as physicians (if there is one).
Anyway, the recent part of this thread was just two prepods arguing over what we know very little about, but it was fun

 

[Darklord]

Page two of "Is it Medical School or Podiatry School-School of Podiatric Medicine" http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=523695&page=2 had the same argument except it was much shorter.

Main point by Feli

What you are saying makes sense, and I agree 100% that we need to focus first and foremost on continuing to advance our own standards within podiatry (boards, research, standard of care, training programs, etc) before worrying about any change based on what any outside group suggests.

That said, the AMA, despite only having a small fraction of MDs, still has a ton of lobby power. I sure don't want to have my scope unfairly limited at some point or have to switch states just because of degree discrimination. If USMLE and/or ACGME for podiatry will prevent that, so be it.

However, you are absolutely right that it could just be a catch-22 of sorts...
If pods won't take the USMLE, their education is inferior.
If pod students do take the USMLE and perform poor, they are inferior.
If they do well, then they are still "just podiatrists, not MDs."

It could be that I'm being naive and taking the "AOFAS is willing to work with the podiatric community for the benefit of patient care" part too literally. It's plainly evident that Saltzman and some F&A ortho want nothing to do with DPMs, but others reference our literature, train our residents/fellows, co-publish, and seem genuinely concerned on patient care.

The bold is genius.

 

[tmoney]

The way I see it is: you have learned the material, so you might as well prove on on MLEs.

No matter what you consider yourselves you are a physician first and a podiatrist second. I don't see the need to fast track classes like OB and GYN because all other physicians take them and learn them very seriously, even if they are pursuing unrelated fields. Main point: all physicians take them, except for podiatrists.

I don't see why you are valuing your podiatry boards so much, especially the USMLE tests everything except for the podiatry classes, which board certification can take of.

I wasn't arguing for the reimbursement. You, DPMHopeful, didn't mention it, except for that one comment at the end.

How about you move to state that acknowledges podiatrists as physicians (if there is one).
Anyway, the recent part of this thread was just two prepods arguing over what we know very little about, but it was fun

1. Not really... If I wanted to be a physician first, I would have applied to medical school. I'm studying to become a podiatrist, or "podiatric physician" as the APMA calls it. Big difference from what you wrote.

2. We don't need to take certain classes in depth like that. We are already granted practice rights and a license by the state in which we live... based on our current education and training-- no one has complained about DPMs being a danger to the public because we 'do not know enough OB/GYN'...

3. You should, because thats what a lot of Vision 2015 is about... not about us changing our entire curricula in order to (successfully) take the USMLE.

4. Graduate highschool, start college, take a couple university level science courses, sign up for the MCAT, do the m*******a you kids like to do, thennn call yourself a pre-anything.

side: brush up on your English, your patients will appreciate it in the future.

 

[Darklord]

I believe I got the "physician first" from someone who claimed that Dr. Harkless said it, at the beginning of this thread. Nonetheless, it holds true and it is very wise. You are a physician and podiatry is your specialty.

I don't know if you've even read 2015 based on your statements. Greedy podiatrists believe that Vision 2015 is about money. How about I post the main points of 2015:

Overall Mission
Podiatrists are universally accepted and recognized as physicians consistent with their education, training, and experience.
Objectives

O1. Evaluate and ensure that podiatric medical education is comparable to that of allopathic and osteopathic physicians.

O2. Demonstrate to the entire health care community that the education, training, and experience of a podiatric physician are comparable to that of allopathic and osteopathic physicians.

O3. Obtain state and federal government recognition that podiatrists are physicians.

O4. Market and promote podiatrists as physicians.

O5. Attract high quality applicants to colleges of podiatric medicine and thereby to the profession.

I don't see anything about money in the main ideas. None of them refer to money. A main here is that podiatric education should be similar to normal medical education. Normal medical students take OB/GYN, you make have studied it lightly. Students at Western, however, will study it in as much detail as their DO counterparts and will rotate through OB/GYN. Your attitude: I am a podiatrist and will not need to know how to deliver a baby is backward. All physicians know how to do it except podiatrists. Vision 2015 wants to move forward in term of education. It wants our schools to be equal with normal medical schools. Medical schools teach students OB/GYN in detail. Most podiatry schools don't and it is obvious that you haven't learned it. You reflect the attitude that Vision 2015 seeks to eradicate.

Though I am still in high school, I am enrolled at a public university full time and am taking university level science courses. Therefore, I do consider myself pre-health.

I believe my English skill is normal. Of course, my writing levels vary due to numerous factors: time of day, stress levels, what else I am writing at the time, whether I am writing online, whether I proof read what I wrote, ect. I do admit that the writing in my previous post was subpar for a college student.

As for the main argument, I believe that Feli's post, which I quoted, sums it up.

 

[tmoney]

Overall Mission
Podiatrists are universally accepted and recognized as physicians consistent with their education, training, and experience.
Objectives

O1. Evaluate and ensure that podiatric medical education is comparable to that of allopathic and osteopathic physicians.

O2. Demonstrate to the entire health care community that the education, training, and experience of a podiatric physician are comparable to that of allopathic and osteopathic physicians.

O3. Obtain state and federal government recognition that podiatrists are physicians.

O4. Market and promote podiatrists as physicians.

O5. Attract high quality applicants to colleges of podiatric medicine and thereby to the profession.

I agree with objectives 1-4... and have been up to date on vision 2015 for quite some time... they are great, but I do realize it is for money and respect, not to become a physician first and a podiatrist second. I do not know a single classmate or practicing podiatrist who thinks vision 2015 is designed for us to be phyisicians first, and podiatrists second. it is designed to promote, rightfully so, ourselves as podiatric physicians. I know you will argue that as "semantics", but if you want to enter podiatry, you need to understand the difference between a physician and a podiatric physician.

Also, if we had the same curriculum as 'normal' medical school: We would still graduate with a DPM, but our residency would be 6yrs long. Or we would have to close all of our schools, and create an MD/DO podiatry residency. It doesnt make sense to me, I am more than comfortable with my education.

 

[Darklord]

Physician first podiatrist second is Dr. Harkless' (Dean of Western) line according to hearsay. I believe that it is true and wise.

I know having the same education and not being and MD argument...

Feli's post sums everything up. If you go to the thread I referred to in the Podiatric Physicians forum, Cool_Vkb expresses his ideas regarding this very well.

 

[air bud]

Darklord,
the fact that you quote Western only shows how naive and immature you are. If you take college administrators at their word, let alone from a program that doesn't even exist, then you are a sucker. At least use DMU or scholl students firsthand knowledge for reference when you want to compare curriculums.

 

[tmoney]

I know having the same education and not being and MD argument...

apparently you don't. have fun watching the power rangers and playing the playstation.... if I could only go back in time to those simple carefree days... shuddering with excitement... enjoy it while you can!

 

[air bud]

do you listen to the Jonas brothers or miley when you study?

 

[tmoney]

haha. crunk assed britney. i want her new cd, but i need to earn my allowance from my mom first.

 

[Darklord]

Tmoney, I keep on referencing Feli, but you never respond. I can't do anything more then put the argument infront of your face.

I know you guys have no respect for Western, but I could care less because those students will be receiving a world class. It is also obvious that Western's curriculum is the most inline with vision 2015. They take the most classes with DO students than any other podiatry school. DMUs curriculum was posted and I looked up AZPOD's, but obviously they were incomparable with Western's.

Please feel free to explain why I am a fool for quoting a meaningful saying. I'm not believing any outrageous promises. I'm just quoting a famous podiatrist. Only you, airbud, would twist things like this.

And when we can't think of intelligent to say. Let's insult people! Isn't that what we are notorious for, especially on the pod forum. Then to top it off, we have podiatry students joining in.

 

[streetsweeper]

.

 

[215512]

And when we can't think of intelligent to say. Let's insult people! Isn't that what we are notorious for, especially on the pod forum. Then to top it off, we have podiatry students joining in.

sick, yet true

 

[PodunkUDPM]

Darklord,
the fact that you quote Western only shows how naive and immature you are. If you take college administrators at their word, let alone from a program that doesn't even exist, then you are a sucker. At least use DMU or scholl students firsthand knowledge for reference when you want to compare curriculums.

Basically, this. Wait until you see what actually happens at that school before you make your opinion. Or better yet, wait until they graduate their first class. Darklord, you look like a fool lapping up all their propaganda while you ignore all the other advice from current podiatry students and prepods with more knowledge than you.

 

[templepodnc]

I believe I got the "physician first" from someone who claimed that Dr. Harkless said it, at the beginning of this thread

I also believe that is the motto that the Dean of DMU also uses so Western is not alone in that mindset.

I would also agree with that mindset to an extent too. Podiatry is much more than just podiatry. You will come to realize a lot of the more "high powered" programs spend a lot of time with inpatient management in hospitals. Obviously a podiatrist's ability to handle heart meds, etc. is not as strong as a cardio or internal medicine doc but it is important for a pod to have the understanding of different drugs that affect their patients. The foot is connected to a person, it is not isolated.

I think as a physician and a podiatrist you would want as much training and knowledge as possible. I just don't think taking the USMLE makes you equal to MDs.

 

[PoddyMan]

I also believe that is the motto that the Dean of DMU also uses so Western is not alone in that mindset.

I would also agree with that mindset to an extent too. Podiatry is much more than just podiatry.

I was told that the dean at AZPOD used that phrase as well. Hmmm, is there a trend here?

 

[PoddyMan]

All that is needed to practice Podiatry is passing the Podiatric boards. Always has been, always will (should) be.

The state of CA BPM (Board of Podiatric Medicine) has set the stage for acceptance of the USMLE for podiatric licensure:

Pursuant to Sections 2475.1, 2486 and 2488 of the Code, the board recognizes the respective, corresponding sections of examinations of the United States Medical Licensing Examination and the National Board of Osteopathic Medical Examiners as equivalent in content to those administered by the National Board of Podiatric Medical Examiners. http://www.bpm.ca.gov/lawsregs/bpmregs.shtml

The next step is allowing students from colleges of podiatric medicine to take it.

 

[Darklord]

PodunkUDPM, I'm sick of your ignorant posts. From the very beginning you've been negative on this thread. If you're here to hate please leave and start your Western hating thread somehwere else.

You claim I'm a victim of propaganda?! Since when do medical school in the US distribute propaganda? I'm excited about Western because it is an extremely prestigious DO school. If Harvard opened up a podiatry program allowing you to take classes with its MD students would you go? No, I'm pretty sure you would criticize them and allow them to pass their first class right? Well you could wait, but those students will probably pass with much higher scores than you and land better residency spots and have the title of have having an equivalent education as their MD or DO counterparts. They'll probably laught at your face.

Well, exactly this has happened. The Harvard of DO schools has opened up a podiatry programm. They have little curriculum issues because podiatry students take the exact same classes and rotations (more than DMU or AZPOD from my understanding). The only classes they are adding are the podiatry specific ones. Other then that they are more than good to go.

Whether you ignorant people want the USMLEs or not, now that they are coming. Vision 2015 promotes it, Western is promoting it, and California promotes it as well.

As for that quote I tried to find the post I got it from. I searched the phrase, but I got my own post back. Regardless, it is true and wise and I kept on saying it was hearsay in my posts. However, there are some pod students here who believe otherwise.

 

[PoddyMan]

Vision 2015 can't be implemented by one school alone. It will take a collaborative effort from all of the schools to ensure all of the goals are met.

Very true. However, are each of the schools preparing to provide a curriculum that the allopaths and osteopaths would say is "equivalent"? In particular, look at the clinical training, which is where they (MDs & DOs) say podiatric medicine is weak. Podiatric medical schools need more general medicine and general surgery rotations to meet their approval. The reason for "equivalent" training/education is for parity and, ultimately, equivalent payment, privileges, and appropriate scope of practice.

NBPME probably isn't going to let one school take the USLME and all the others take the pod boards.

NBPME has absolutely NOTHING to do with "allowing" students or schools to take the USMLE. It is up to each state's board of podiatric medicine what a DPM needs to take for licensure in that state.

The vision isn't all about taking the USLME. It's about parity. We can achieve parity and still take boards that are similar to the USLME, but have a focus on the lower extremity.

True. However, in order to reach parity, the NBPME has to offer an exam that is "equivalent". As of today, it does not (there is no standardized patient/clinical exam, for example. Also, all steps of the USMLE utilize higher level clinical questions, which is why programs that offer a curriculum requiring critical thinking along with clinical application is the way to go.) Will the allopaths/osteopaths accept the NBPME as equivalent? Time will tell. By taking the USMLE, however, the allopaths would have to accept it. Will podiatric medicine students be able to pass it? Ahh, there's the true litmus test for part (step) I. So, if a school wants their students to take the USMLE (in addition to the NBPME) as a way to evaluate their curriculum and students, more power to them.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

Oh lord, I've seen it all. A high schooler trying to educate a third year, this is amusing. You don't think that every medical school (or podiatry school) tries to promote themselves as much as possible to attract students? You are sorely mistaken.

 

[capo]

The state of CA BPM (Board of Podiatric Medicine) has set the stage for acceptance of the USMLE for podiatric licensure:

The next step is allowing students from colleges of podiatric medicine to take it.

Thanks. Didn't know this. Does this upgrade a CA DPM to better insurance status or what does it mean? A harder exam must have some rewards, yes? Thanks again.

 

[Darklord]

I won't argue semantics PunkUDPM. Have you every taken an argumentation class (English II)? You are probably the worst quality third year student I know of in any professional program.

It looks like credentials mean less and less. I mean, I as an undergrad-high school student knew more of Vision 2015 than T-Money.

You guys just bandwagon to whoever you think is winning the argument, but later you turn out to be erroneous. It's pointless, I think I'm done with this thread.

As a side note, learn to respect people regardless of their credentials. It will help you later on (i.e. nursing staff, therapies, etc). Otherwise they'll think you're a jackass. In short, fix your ego.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

Now you're going to lecture on respect and knowledge. This just keeps getting better.

 

[AttackNME]

The reason why some schools are pushing for equality has several reasons aside from equal respect and equal pay. Mainly, it is to raise their standards because there are many bad pods out there, and I know this only based on the fact that a few world-renowned pods i've shadowed told me this themselves, that many pods misdiagnose their patients or give them orthotics without considering problems in their knees.

To get better pods, they need to make DPM just as prestigious as MD to attract smarter students. To do that, they can start by having their pod students take the USMLE. Pod students should be educated enough to take the USMLE today since schools like DMU already completely integrates DPM with DO students in the basic medical courses.

A cardiologist is a medical specialty, and in their education they go through rotation through other medical specialities as well. It would make sense for podiatry, another medical specialty, to be educated similarly.

Let's face it, it is a little embarassing how low the averages are to gain entrance to podiatry school and this has to change.

By the way, at WesternU... "Principles & Practices of Podiatric Medicine - Includes Lower Extremity Anatomy, Radiology/Imaging, Podiatric Medicine, Podiatric Orthopedics (including Biomechanics, Pathomechanics), Podiatric Surgery". This class starts from day 1 and you take it for the first 2 years. It teaches you everything in conjuction with all the other mentioned subjects so that students get a more comprehensive understanding.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

By the way, at WesternU... "Principles & Practices of Podiatric Medicine - Includes Lower Extremity Anatomy, Radiology/Imaging, Podiatric Medicine, Podiatric Orthopedics (including Biomechanics, Pathomechanics), Podiatric Surgery". This class starts from day 1 and you take it for the first 2 years. It teaches you everything in conjuction with all the other mentioned subjects so that students get a more comprehensive understanding.

Sounds just like every other school

 

[AttackNME]

Actually no, at DMU they teach each of these courses individually instead of an integrated 2-year course like it is at WesternU. The staff at Western want this change because they say students can study better if everything is integrated, so they can apply the principles of each discipline together. I don't know for myself if this is a better way of learning, but the teaching faculty left their previous jobs to teach through this new curriculum, so it can't be ALL garbage and propoganda.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

So you're saying its all the same material, presented in a different manner?

 

[Darklord]

Yes, all the podiatry material, but not the other basic sciences correct?

 

[AttackNME]

Yes and yes, at western, their basic sciences are presented in a similar way where all the basic disciplines (bio, chem, phys) are mashed into several courses called "Cardiovascular System", "Nervous system", etc. And the pod material are mashed together to get the principles and practice course. How will they actually teach it? Will there be several PhD's lecturing at once or taking turns each week/day? I forgot to ask these questions during my interview.. :/

 

[air bud]

so new teachers at a new school teaching material in a new way for them....sounds like another good reason to stay away from Western for a few years for the kinks to get worked out. Get over how good the DO program might be or the fact that is in southern California people. One can not honestly expect for the program to be near as well run on day 1 as it will be day 1 3 or 4 years from now. Yes, I am sure programs are always evolving and getting better, but the distance from A to B is a lot further from B to C...get it?

if you want to go by many people's theory on this thread, why would people want to go to scholl? it is associated with Rosalind Franklin, and Chicago Medical School is considered a lower tier allopathic school.

 

[Sig Savant]

Thank you, Darklord. You are an inspiration to us all. I cannot wait until you take the MCAT, score a 46, and raise all Pod school acceptance numbers single-handedly.

 

[UW66]

Darklord youre killing me lol. Everytime i think i cant set a new distance record for projectile you contiunally prove me wrong. oooooohmy!

 

[Sig Savant]

Our Darklord, who art in high school,
hallowed by thy posts.
Thy A's shall come,
thy will be done,
in pod school as it was in grade school.
Give us this day our daily laugh,
and forgive us our semantics,
as we forgive those who post against you.
And lead us not into semantics,
but deliver us from semantics.
For thine posts are the say all,
end all, and be all, forever and ever,
or at least until you graduate high school,
Amen.
and sorry about not getting into that MD program.

 

[Darklord]

.Time to post (I will address posts chronologically). .
. .
.

so new teachers at a new school teaching material in a new way for them....sounds like another good reason to stay away from Western for a few years for the kinks to get worked out. Get over how good the DO program might be or the fact that is in southern California people. One can not honestly expect for the program to be near as well run on day 1 as it will be day 1 3 or 4 years from now. Yes, I am sure programs are always evolving and getting better, but the distance from A to B is a lot further from B to C...get it?

if you want to go by many people's theory on this thread, why would people want to go to scholl? it is associated with Rosalind Franklin, and Chicago Medical School is considered a lower tier allopathic school.

.
.First you have a fallacy. Western Podiatry students take all of their classes with DO students (except OMM) unlike any other podiatry school. So, obviously, the DO program’s prestige has to do almost everything with the podiatry program. Since all of the basic sciences classes are integrated with DOs, so one can expect almost everything to be running on track the first year. However, as was mentioned, the podiatry classes will be new and will have to be worked on, and of course, this should be fixed within 2 years. Remember, Western is not a new stand alone podiatry school. That is our main argument. It is just 1 New Podiatry Systems class and new podiatry rotations, that’s it. I’m pretty sure, I can trust Western to get those few things right. We’re not getting new Biochem faculty or trying to establish new IM rotations or anything; everything is already there and very reputable. It’s just a few new classes added on to Western’s DO program. That’s it. .
.Your professor example was also flawed. If the professors at other schools did not feel competent or enthusiastic about the new way that they were teaching, why would they pack their bags and move to Southern California? Also, they have well established professors, who are experiences with system learning to help these new podiatry professors get accustomed these new methods. “New teachers at a new school teaching material in a new for for them….. sound like another reason to stay away from Western” As I have explained, it is obviously not a good reason. They are not new teachers; Western is not a new school, and the teachers want to teach this new way, which is not really new. Like, I have said system learning is pretty much the new norm. Podiatry schools are some of the few schools that still use it. .
.Your Scholl example, airbud was a little flawed. Scholl students firstly don’t take all of their classes with medical students and I’m sure many students at your “low tier allopathic” would be as smart as most DO students, including Western. Regardless, Scholl is a great school, as is Western and its podiatry curriculum is obviously well established. .
. .
.

Our Darklord, who art in high school,
hallowed by thy posts.
Thy A's shall come,
thy will be done,
in pod school as it was in grade school.
Give us this day our daily laugh,
and forgive us our semantics,
as we forgive those who post against you.
And lead us not into semantics,
but deliver us from semantics.
For thine posts are the say all,
end all, and be all, forever and ever,
or at least until you graduate high school,
Amen.
and sorry about not getting into that MD program.

.
.Sig Savant, I have no idea how you have this much time on your hands, especially during finals. I just had a calc final and am amused by your dedication to compose me a poem. Regardless, I would like you get rid of your superiority complex. If you like to tease high school students in your free time, I would advise you to stay away from all health science careers. You obviously don’t have the altruism and respect for other people to become a physician. I would advise you to mature and work on self improvement, if you seriously want to become podiatrist. There are a lot of people like you on this forum. You have nothing to contribute and merely waste your time online. How about you get off the computer and study. .
.To all those Cyberbullies out there on this forum: I will advise you to stay away. I will respond to your posts and will make you look stupid. I have just begun to gain respect on this forum and will not let your crude amusement get in the way of my career explorations. If you have a superiority complex because you are a failing undergrad and like to pick on people below you (how sad, you now have to pick on high school students; you must really suck), then I cannot help you. I can tell you that it won’t work. .
.Making fallacies, acknowledging them, and not doing anything about them, makes you look REALLY stupid in the eyes of people who know what they are talking bout. .
.As for the MD rejection Sig Savant, I am happy to say I have learned a lot and gained from it. I now have a new found appreciation for other health care providers, excluding MDs, such as Pharmacists and Podiatrists. I am happy to have applied and to have interviewed (something you might have not been able to do) and, of course, will try again. (Seeing the quality of the prepods out here is giving me second thoughts, lol-jk-no maybe a little) .