What a sad life :-(

[Stumpyman]

I didn't mean any offense to engineering majors, just the way things are going, I've seen/known plenty of people lose jobs because of outsourcing/being laid off. Even my dad was unemployed for about 5 years with a undergrad/masters from berkeley.
And medicine is also subject to some outsourcing, but who would wants to go to a doctor who they can barely understand?

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[torshi]

Depends on the school I guess. My friends and I do quite well.

Again, can you name a less competitive, less layoff-prone field that only requires a B.S.? Sounds like you're attempting more of your fear-justifying.

what makes you think that and assume I'm pursuing a typical bio degree...You don't know the difficulty of my degree. ha

 

[torshi]

I pray thee, please name a Bachelor's degree that pays better than engineering and gives you less debt! (I personally don't have any yet)

What does this have to do with anything, wasn't this about the job outlook for engineers...

 

[isoquin]

well he can work somewhere like pizza hut and volunteer more or do something health related. Most hospital jobs require certification

I disagree. Clinical research at hostpitals don't require certification. Most states don't even need certification to be a phlebotomist, which can be learned during orientation for clinical research.

The idea that more volunteering on the side will help an applicant during a gap year is silly, especially if they were already rejected. "More of the same" is not a good strategy. Unless an applicant has fantastic stats already and just needed a gap year for non-academic reasons, people need to up their game. Working at pizza hut does not accomplish that.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I don't really see anything wrong with this, actually. Are you still pre-med? Why are you working this job?

I don't know why pre-meds feel so entitled sometimes....****. Count your blessings.

Great post.

I'm working at JC Penny this summer and I'm happy to have a job.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Actually there isn't a very bright future for engineering, the way outsourcing is going, engineers are set to lose jobs or get stuck with very low paying ones.

The only companies that CAN outsource tend to be much larger companies. These companies tend to be defense companies (Lockheed, Boeing, etc.) and they CAN'T outsource for security reasons. The biomedical jobs (which with defense jobs makes up the majority of engineering jobs) come from mid sized companies who can't afford to outsource as they aren't international or refuse to outsource for safety reasons.

The only engineering field that has seen problems to any noticeable degree has been mechanical (robots, cars, etc have been outsourced to Japan/China for the most part), but mechanical engineering has been declining for the longest time so it's no surprise. I have yet to meet a CE/EE engineer who's had a hard time (>1 year) finding a job.

As for getting laid off, that's the great thing about engineering. You WILL get laid off because companies cancel contracts/collapse but you're so versatile the chances of you finding a new job are great if you actually know what you're doing. It's not hard to find unemployed engineers because you can get an engineering degree from thousands of school, but an ACTUAL engineer who really knows his stuff isn't going to have this problem. Experience is worth a lot in engineering, so a senior engineer is not going to have nearly as difficult a time finding a new job compared to an MBA/business major who's skills were pretty specific to the company he had been working at for the last 2 decades. I have yet to meet an engineer (and I know a ton) who hasn't changed jobs at least 3-4 times during his or her career.

I don't know why engineering gets so much hate. You guys realize modern life and even modern medicine would be impossible without it right?

 

[torshi]

I disagree. Clinical research at hostpitals don't require certification. Most states don't even need certification to be a phlebotomist, which can be learned during orientation for clinical research.

The idea that more volunteering on the side will help an applicant during a gap year is silly, especially if they were already rejected. "More of the same" is not a good strategy. Unless an applicant has fantastic stats already and just needed a gap year for non-academic reasons, people need to up their game. Working at pizza hut does not accomplish that.

I'm sure there is a certification for that

 

[torshi]

The only companies that CAN outsource tend to be much larger companies. These companies tend to be defense companies (Lockheed, Boeing, etc.) and they CAN'T outsource for security reasons. The biomedical jobs (which with defense jobs makes up the majority of engineering jobs) come from mid sized companies who can't afford to outsource as they aren't international or refuse to outsource for safety reasons.

The only engineering field that has seen problems to any noticeable degree has been mechanical (robots, cars, etc have been outsourced to Japan/China for the most part), but mechanical engineering has been declining for the longest time so it's no surprise. I have yet to meet a CE/EE engineer who's had a hard time (>1 year) finding a job.

As for getting laid off, that's the great thing about engineering. You WILL get laid off because companies cancel contracts/collapse but you're so versatile the chances of you finding a new job are great if you actually know what you're doing. It's not hard to find unemployed engineers because you can get an engineering degree from thousands of school, but an ACTUAL engineer who knows how to actually work isn't going to have this problem. Experience is worth a lot in engineering, so a senior engineer is not going to have nearly as difficult a time finding a new job compared to an MBA/business major who's skills were pretty specific to the company he had been working at for the last 2 decades. I have yet to meet an engineer (and I know a ton) who hasn't changed jobs at least 3-4 times during his or her career.

I don't know why engineering gets so much hate. You guys realize modern life and even modern medicine would be impossible without it right?

Wouldn't other companies not want to hire senior engineers who got laid because of the fact they obviously know what they are doing therefore know they should get paid more instead of the fresh engineers out of college that are just happy to find a job and willing to learn?

 

[torshi]

Great post.

I'm working at JC Penny this summer and I'm happy to have a job.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Wouldn't other companies not want to hire senior engineers who got laid because of the fact they obviously know what they are doing therefore know they should get paid more instead of the fresh engineers out of college that are just happy to find a job and willing to learn?

Engineering is one of the few jobs where this is not true. The reason is because engineering DEGREES only give you a foundation (math, physics, some basic design). A recent engineering grad needs a lot of experience (junior engineering jobs, college internships, college research) before they actually know how to do any "engineering". If you're a company looking to meet your 6 month deadline for a contract, chances are you'll want to hire the senior engineer with 20 years of experience who actually knows low level programming/hardware design rather than the recent grad who barely knows how to function efficiently in python. This is why only large defense/biomedical companies tend to hire recent grads. Engineering is very much a hands on field, you can't really learn much "engineering" in school.

I guess you could say that engineering is the reverse of most fields because recent grads are at a disadvantage, but once you get that first job you're pretty much good to go.

 

[bucks2010]

I disagree. Clinical research at hostpitals don't require certification. Most states don't even need certification to be a phlebotomist, which can be learned during orientation for clinical research.

The idea that more volunteering on the side will help an applicant during a gap year is silly, especially if they were already rejected. "More of the same" is not a good strategy. Unless an applicant has fantastic stats already and just needed a gap year for non-academic reasons, people need to up their game. Working at pizza hut does not accomplish that.

Most PI's are going to be hard-pressed to hire a research assistant that they know will be leaving for med school in a year. May be easier if you start at their lab on a p/t basis during undergrad, but good luck trying to start a research gig after graduating.

You could work as a CNA or phleb but these positions may or may not require certification.

 

[Perrotfish]

Wouldn't other companies not want to hire senior engineers who got laid because of the fact they obviously know what they are doing therefore know they should get paid more instead of the fresh engineers out of college that are just happy to find a job and willing to learn?

A new Engineer in not unlike a new Intern in the hospital. They can be as 'willing to learn' as they want, but the fact is its going to take the better part of a year until you can trust them to so much as wipe themselves without supervision, and significantly longer to get them to the point where they can start working independently and even leading rather than following direct orders. And then of course there are the fields where, in addition to the actual on the job education that needs to happen, there is a government license of some kind that the employer needs to invest in if you don't already have it. A full profesional engineering license isn't as quite as big a pain to get as a medical license, but it's not easy or cheap.

I'm not saying getting laid off doesn't suck, even for engineers. Employers know they have the leverage when dealing with the unemployed (especially in this economy) so when you lose your job you're generally looking at getting rehired for significantly less and probably with less growth potential as well. However your experience is valuable. A degree with a real skill (nursing, engineering, whatever) will generally keep you in white collar work.

 

[torshi]

Engineering is one of the few jobs where this is not true. The reason is because engineering DEGREES only give you a foundation (math, physics, some basic design). A recent engineering grad needs a lot of experience (junior engineering jobs, college internships, college research) before they actually know how to do any "engineering". If you're a company looking to meet your 6 month deadline for a contract, chances are you'll want to hire the senior engineer with 20 years of experience who actually knows low level programming/hardware design rather than the recent grad who barely knows how to function efficiently in python. This is why only large defense/biomedical companies tend to hire recent grads. Engineering is very much a hands on field, you can't really learn much "engineering" in school.

I guess you could say that engineering is the reverse of most fields because recent grads are at a disadvantage, but once you get that first job you're pretty much good to go.

Lets say your an "average" engineer which would be couple years in the field, maybe not the best of the crop, and get laid off, you will most likely not find a job right? Obviously they will know what they are doing, but compared to their senior counterparts, the seniors can get rehired according to your post but what about the rest.

Half of my prof's so far throughout college, are engineers who got laid off and can't land another job.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

A new Engineer in not unlike a new Intern in the hospital. They can be as 'willing to learn' as they want, but the fact is its going to take the better part of a year until you can trust them to so much as wipe themselves without supervision, and significantly longer to get them to the point where they can start working independently and even leading rather than following direct orders. And then of course there are the fields where, in addition to the actual on the job education that needs to happen, there is a government license of some kind that the employer needs to invest in if you don't already have it. A full profesional engineering license isn't as quite as big a pain to get as a medical license, but it's not easy or cheap.

I'm not saying getting laid off doesn't suck. Employers know they have the leverage (especially in this economy) so when you lose your job you're generally looking at getting rehired for significantly less and probably with less growth potential. However your experience is valuable and is a reason why most engineers get hired. A degree with a real skill (nursing, engineering, Medicine) will generally keep you in white collar work.

Don't forget that if you're a senior enough engineer you can be granted security clearance. This is not something a recent or even mid level engineer would have and it's EXTREMELY valuable to defense companies.

 

[Laplace]

oh cool you got an internship.....

I just did an engineering internship this summer and they gave me a full-time position. Almost all interns who did relatively good work got an offer. There's definitely a shortage of well-qualified engineers - even in this economy.

That being said, if you just barely pass your engineering classes to get a B.S. in (insert engineering major here) and expect a job to be handed to you on a silver platter, think again.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Lets say your an "average" engineer which would be couple years in the field, maybe not the best of the crop, and get laid off, you will most likely not find a job right? Obviously they will know what they are doing, but compared to their senior counterparts, the seniors can get rehired according to your post but what about the rest.

Half of my prof's so far throughout college, are engineers who got laid off and can't land another job.

See the post Perrotfish made for a better explanation than mine.

Engineering jobs are tiered, so each group has it's own set of jobs they apply for. A senior/principle engineer can do things a mid level engineer can't and a mid level engineer can do things a junior engineer can't. Principle/senior engineers don't really compete with mid levels and mid levels don't really compete with juniors.

Being an engineer in the industry and an engineer in academia are COMPLETELY different things. Most professors in engineering departments will admit they had a hard time finding jobs in industry but that's not because there are no jobs, it's because they're a completely different group of people with different skills/talents. Writing research/grants and coming up with new ideas is a whole different ball game than fixing lines of code and fine tuning an engine so they tend to attract different sets of people.

 

[Perrotfish]

Half of my prof's so far throughout college, are engineers who got laid off and can't land another job.

So to recap: the engineering job market is so bad that many of your professors were forced to take positions in academia, an enviornment than 1/1000 Science PhDs manages to claw their way into?

Don't forget that if you're a senior enough engineer you can be granted security clearance. This is not something a recent or even mid level engineer would have and it's EXTREMELY valuable to defense companies.

Side note: Do you know there are now 800,000 people with a 'Top Secret' clearance from the US government?

 

[MrLahey]

if you work hard enough and get the most sales, you can be assistant to the district manager!

lulz

 

[LuciusVorenus]

So to recap: the engineering job market is so bad that many of your professors were forced to take positions in academia, an enviornment than 1/1000 Science PhDs manages to claw their way into?



Side note: Do you know there are now 800,000 people with a 'Top Secret' clearance from the US government?

Is there a level above top secret? I know it's only 0.2% of the population, but that's a pretty hefty number for "secrets" not to leak out. I'll assume most of those are in the military and can be trusted. But then again, that's what Wikileaks counts on isn't it

 

[Blarry]

Yeah... did you, with your bio degree?

Internships/co-ops are what engineers do when we haven't graduated yet. They lead to full-time jobs (which pay more), which is what I watched all my graduating friends get offered last summer and start this summer.

Don't wory all the bio pre-meds are jelly because they are f***** if they don't get into med school.

 

[MrLahey]

The average chemical engineer fresh out of undergrad makes 66,000...This is the national average...for the first year working...and this number includes the student who did not get jobs but were looking....Pretty nice fall back if you ask me

 

[MrLahey]

don't wory all the bio pre-meds are jelly because they are f***** if they don't get into med school.

+100000

 

[Perrotfish]

Is there a level above top secret? I know it's only 0.2% of the population, but that's a pretty hefty number for "secrets" not to leak out. I'll assume most of those are in the military and can be trusted. But then again, that's what Wikileaks counts on isn't it

There isn't a higher generic clearance, the only two options are top secret and secret. However just because you have a Top Secret clearance doesn't mean you're authorized to see anything that's Top Secret. It just means that you can be authorized to see something that's Top Secret. Someone still needs to decide that you need to know.

I agree, though, 800,000 is way out of control.

 

[bucks2010]

Don't wory all the bio pre-meds are jelly because they are f***** if they don't get into med school.

not really; there are numerous careers for which biology majors are well-prepared for - it's just that most of them require an additional degree. a list to start off with:

OD
PharmD
DMD/DDS
DPM
DVM
JD
Aud.D.
Psy.D.
PhD
DNP
DPT

... etc.

 

[AestheticMed]

Don't wory all the bio pre-meds are jelly because they are f***** if they don't get into med school.

Yeah, that's the exact reason I didn't choose a NSM degree.

 

[Doc of the Walk]

You think you had a rough childhood? Well f*ck you! It ain't got nothing on mine.
My mum practically kicked my ***** out of the house before I even hit 13, and I never even met my dad. My only friend till I was 10 was the f*cking prick next door who was always beating the **** out of me and telling me I wasn’t worth ****. Its not even like I had a choice, the town f*cking had something like 9 people living in it, I **** you not. My entire adolescence was just moving around from place trying to get along with people who didn’t even want me.

You think that’s the worst? My only friend was an Asian guy in his thirties or something, who only kept me around because he thought I could help him get laid. The only perk was that I also got to hang around with this cute ginger chick, she was flat as a pancake sure, but d@mn she was a total nymph. She must have been a sadist or something cause she always took pleasure in hitting me and telling me how she loved to get wet.

But dear god the bane of my existence was this adult couple that I could NOT seem to avoid. You know these types of couples that are absolutely sickening, like they wear matching outfits and finish each other’s sentences? Yeah they were f*cking creepers, and they had a cat, which was at least twice as annoying as they were, I swear this thing would never shut the f*ck up.

Like I said I ended up moving from town to town getting into fights with other kids my age, even adults from time to time.

The only thing that kept me going was my dream to become a pokemon master.

 

[user003]

The only thing that kept me going was my dream to become a pokemon master.

lmao

 

[MrLahey]

not really; there are numerous careers for which biology majors are well-prepared for - it's just that most of them require an additional degree. a list to start off with:

OD
PharmD
DMD/DDS
DPM
DVM
JD
Aud.D.
Psy.D.
PhD
DNP
DPT

... etc.

Again you have to apply to these programs....and get in to them...Most likely these people wont want to do this, because going to school to do something else statistically says you are not going to go back to medical school.

Now if you work in whatever field with you bachelors degree, you can continue to apply to med school while you work...and if your an engineer you can make 70-100 while you wait

 

[AsianPersuasion]

HAHAHA sucks for you guys, I have the best job ever! CNA alldayyy!!
I held a record at my old facility doing 13 get ups in 1.5hr!!

Trololll

 

[SisterDisco08]

You think you had a rough childhood? Well f*ck you! It ain't got nothing on mine.
My mum practically kicked my ***** out of the house before I even hit 13, and I never even met my dad. My only friend till I was 10 was the f*cking prick next door who was always beating the **** out of me and telling me I wasn’t worth ****. Its not even like I had a choice, the town f*cking had something like 9 people living in it, I **** you not. My entire adolescence was just moving around from place trying to get along with people who didn’t even want me.

You think that’s the worst? My only friend was an Asian guy in his thirties or something, who only kept me around because he thought I could help him get laid. The only perk was that I also got to hang around with this cute ginger chick, she was flat as a pancake sure, but d@mn she was a total nymph. She must have been a sadist or something cause she always took pleasure in hitting me and telling me how she loved to get wet.

But dear god the bane of my existence was this adult couple that I could NOT seem to avoid. You know these types of couples that are absolutely sickening, like they wear matching outfits and finish each other’s sentences? Yeah they were f*cking creepers, and they had a cat, which was at least twice as annoying as they were, I swear this thing would never shut the f*ck up.

Like I said I ended up moving from town to town getting into fights with other kids my age, even adults from time to time.

The only thing that kept me going was my dream to become a pokemon master.

I don't think this is where you're supposed to post your personal statement.

 

[deleted393595]

The only thing that kept me going was my dream to become a pokemon master.

If we were at a bar, I would have bought you a beer.

 

[BMEN]

Brock is 30 years old? Learn something new every day i guess

 

[SexyDoctor]

Again you have to apply to these programs....and get in to them...Most likely these people wont want to do this, because going to school to do something else statistically says you are not going to go back to medical school.

Now if you work in whatever field with you bachelors degree, you can continue to apply to med school while you work...and if your an engineer you can make 70-100 while you wait

Every time I see your avatar and read your posts, I think..wtf? I didn't write any of that ****.

 

[augeremt]

If you hate it so much, buy a plane ticket somewhere abroad and work at a Pizza Hut there. At least you'll have more fun and most likely come back with some awesome experiences.

 

[sikhawk]

You think you had a rough childhood? Well f*ck you! It ain't got nothing on mine.
My mum practically kicked my ***** out of the house before I even hit 13, and I never even met my dad. My only friend till I was 10 was the f*cking prick next door who was always beating the **** out of me and telling me I wasn’t worth ****. Its not even like I had a choice, the town f*cking had something like 9 people living in it, I **** you not. My entire adolescence was just moving around from place trying to get along with people who didn’t even want me.

You think that’s the worst? My only friend was an Asian guy in his thirties or something, who only kept me around because he thought I could help him get laid. The only perk was that I also got to hang around with this cute ginger chick, she was flat as a pancake sure, but d@mn she was a total nymph. She must have been a sadist or something cause she always took pleasure in hitting me and telling me how she loved to get wet.

But dear god the bane of my existence was this adult couple that I could NOT seem to avoid. You know these types of couples that are absolutely sickening, like they wear matching outfits and finish each other’s sentences? Yeah they were f*cking creepers, and they had a cat, which was at least twice as annoying as they were, I swear this thing would never shut the f*ck up.

Like I said I ended up moving from town to town getting into fights with other kids my age, even adults from time to time.

The only thing that kept me going was my dream to become a pokemon master.

 

[Medwell]

The average chemical engineer fresh out of undergrad makes 66,000...This is the national average...for the first year working...and this number includes the student who did not get jobs but were looking....Pretty nice fall back if you ask me

Yep. one of my ChemE bros is making just shy of $100k in his first year working in the oil industry, and he was nothing extraordinary as far as engineers go. Pretty amazing deal for attending a state school.

 

[nisarg2010]

After spending years in college, getting top grades, and graduating top of my class I have been reduced to working at pizza hut during my gap year. What makes matters worse, I work under a district manager I have known since childhood. I was a honor student, and he was in special ed. How did my life end up like this!

This is what majoring in something like bio or chem will get you. Should have gone with engineering like me...

 

[desi0chick]

OP, read Blue Collar Blue Scrubs, you won't regret it. And this thread makes me feel regretful in some way..but eh screw it. medicine FTW.

 

[Frazier]

After spending years in college, getting top grades, and graduating top of my class I have been reduced to working at pizza hut during my gap year. What makes matters worse, I work under a district manager I have known since childhood. I was a honor student, and he was in special ed. How did my life end up like this!

What's wrong with this? All of it makes sense.

You're looking for a job that will only have you for one year - of course you wouldn't have any hopes of getting a good job (unless you led them to believe you'd be with them for awhile).

Next, the "special ed" guy prob didn't go to a 4 year university, thus was forced to take a puny pizza boy job after high school and climb up the ranks to the district manager position. Good for him. What do you want, should they have demoted the special ed guy from his position when they saw you walk in the door and given you his job?

Essentially, don't worry "honor student", you will be making your 6 figures soon enough and you'll no longer be cursed with such a "sad life".

 

[AntiHouseMD]

Did you do anything beyond getting good grades? Regardless of major, why would someone want to hire a pre-med who doesn't want to stay with them, especially if they have no internship/research experience?

 

[n3xa]

After spending years in college, getting top grades, and graduating top of my class I have been reduced to working at pizza hut during my gap year. What makes matters worse, I work under a district manager I have known since childhood. I was a honor student, and he was in special ed. How did my life end up like this!

This thread makes me old and cranky.

 

[postbacpremed87]

Very true.

What did you really expect? That's the job market right now, the bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. I work retail and there are people with masters degrees working with me.

 

[bivwack]

After spending years in college, getting top grades, and graduating top of my class I have been reduced to working at pizza hut during my gap year. What makes matters worse, I work under a district manager I have known since childhood. I was a honor student, and he was in special ed. How did my life end up like this!

It seems kinda sad now, but things change. If you do get into med school, then go onto residency and then an attending with all the BS involved w/ that, you will likely look back and think it was a good time. A job with absolutely no responsibility where all you have to do is show up.

 

[doctorshateher]

I'm not hating on engineering specifically. I think in any field, you are less likely to get a good job if you are honest and admit that you are only on board for one year.

I'm in a similar situation to the OP. I thought I had a great job lined up and I was assured it was almost a sure thing, but then they found someone who would stay for more than one year. So now I'm applying for a few AmeriCorps positions and to substitute teach for a year.

If that doesn't work out, I have some great local connections...at McDonalds.

 

[stefspets]

If I could go back, I would have seriously considered an engineering degree vs biology. Our eng students here go full-time for 4 years but make bank (>$20,000) in each of their co-op/intern semesters. That's big money while you're in school. Plus, you're set to find a decent job when you graduate.

I didn't make that much each semester as a co-op but I did really good. Like $20 an hour or something, flexible hours with school, full time over breaks. And they offered me a job when I graduated.

Even when the economy was in the ****ter I still was able to find an engineering job. It's not quite as bad for engineers as other degrees.

 

[isoquin]

You think you had a rough childhood? Well f*ck you! It ain't got nothing on mine.
My mum practically kicked my ***** out of the house before I even hit 13, and I never even met my dad. My only friend till I was 10 was the f*cking prick next door who was always beating the **** out of me and telling me I wasn’t worth ****. Its not even like I had a choice, the town f*cking had something like 9 people living in it, I **** you not. My entire adolescence was just moving around from place trying to get along with people who didn’t even want me.

You think that’s the worst? My only friend was an Asian guy in his thirties or something, who only kept me around because he thought I could help him get laid. The only perk was that I also got to hang around with this cute ginger chick, she was flat as a pancake sure, but d@mn she was a total nymph. She must have been a sadist or something cause she always took pleasure in hitting me and telling me how she loved to get wet.

But dear god the bane of my existence was this adult couple that I could NOT seem to avoid. You know these types of couples that are absolutely sickening, like they wear matching outfits and finish each other’s sentences? Yeah they were f*cking creepers, and they had a cat, which was at least twice as annoying as they were, I swear this thing would never shut the f*ck up.

Like I said I ended up moving from town to town getting into fights with other kids my age, even adults from time to time.

The only thing that kept me going was my dream to become a pokemon master.

8/10. Make sure you add in your shadowing experience to this.

 

[AestheticMed]

8/10. Make sure you add in your shadowing experience to this.

He should add that he has a genetic disorder that prevents him from aging and that he looks like he has been 10 for the last decade.

 

[Truzzi]

Is it mean of me to find this somewhat funny?

Suck it up. Working under someone you hate is part of life. I once worked at Target under someone who bragged about getting a 890 on the old SAT.

 

[Doc of the Walk]

coolstory.jpg

I believe the meaning is lost on you sir.

 

[Doc of the Walk]

If we were at a bar, I would have bought you a beer.

Thank you my good sir

*sips from beer*