What About Adderall

[Depakote]

I think you're confusing a medical/pharmacological issue with an ethical issue. Are you saying it is unethical to treat while taking addys? or are you saying it's "unsafe" to treat, as in it's "unsafe to operate heavy machinery"?

If we're talking about ethics... well, that issue is relative. If you're talking about physiological "impairment", then I don't think your issue is relevant. Consider a scenario where a doctor is prescribed adderall by his medical school chum (a pushover psychiatrist, say). There are two possibilities: a) there is therapeutic value in administering the drug -- the physician performs better, gets all his charts done, etc. etc.; and b) the drug has no therapeutic value (the doc gets really jittery when he takes it, and doesn't feel productive, but scatterbrained and unnerved)... the doctor would stop using it here.

So, the only case where the doctor WOULD actually use the drug is if it were useful to him and he saw some benefit out of it.

how do physicians decide who gets the drug or not? handy dandy DSM-IV criteria for ADD/ADHD, which are pretty nebulous. kind of like the criteria they use to grade the writing sample on the MCAT. anyway.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20001101/2077.html <- right there, if you want.

most 'normal' people have many of those symptoms. I mean come on, which one of us has not ever been easily distracted in some situations?

the question is now "is the patient ADHD *enough* to receive the drug?" -- this is yet another grey area. there is no level of substrate one can measure in a blood test to arrive at an objective "threshold", etc.

most of the productive "abuse" is happening at the low end of this nebulous DSM-IV threshold. physicians who successfully self-medicate w/ adderall most likely have very "slight" non-acute ADD. now enter the question of ethics. and how ADD do people have to be to medicate them?

anyway, the point is, people will only continue to "abuse" if there is some legitimate therapeutic value associated with the treatment. furthermore, adderall isn't like a sugar pill: serious headaches and "crashes" are associated w/ the drug -- people seriously wouldn't be taking it if they didn't feel the benefits outweighed the annoying side effects. if people take it and AREN'T benefiting from the drug, then they're just idiots who need a prayer. unfortunately, this last category is where most college students (i've seen) who take adderall fit in.

Also, this is hardly related to your argument, but I think it's quite ironic the nature of your posts here given that your username is the trade name for VALPROIC ACID. Any physician under the influence of that (anecdotally) is more impaired judgment-wise than someone taking amphetamines.

I'm all about the irony.

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[lilnoelle]

Jesus christ. You people are ridiculous with all this "I can't believe my future colleagues would do this sort of stuff." These are the same people who never broke into abandoned buildings at night when they were little kids, never drank in high school, have never smoked pot, etc. And I don't smoke pot, and I don't take adderall often, but I'm glad I've at least tried both. Neither are going to kill me, and having experienced them I feel like I understand the world a little better. I wouldn't mind if my physician had tried drugs. In fact I wouldn't trust him if he hadn't. Like I would never vote for a president who HADN'T smoked pot, because that is, in my opinion, a naive, naive person. Now go ahead... let the lambasting begin.

Hmmmm - I guess I'm naive. Wait, I'm responsible I wouldn't call making smart decisions being naive. I call it good preventative medicine... Never having sex before meeting my husband, never smoking one cigarette, never getting drunk, never stealing or destroying property. You might call me a hardass, but I think if you met me you would think otherwise... basically I think what about half of the people here are saying is don't judge me before you know me. We all have our own issues and have made our own mistakes, and it is human nature to react strongly against someone who is speaking out against something we are or have done. So what we've done before is gone, but advice to avoid drug usage etc in the future is still good advice. If for no other reason than fairness to the rest of us that aren't using drugs to make us remember more for our classes and tests

 

[Wolfgang12345]

There are two possibilities: a) there is therapeutic value in administering the drug -- the physician performs better, gets all his charts done, etc. etc.; and b) the drug has no therapeutic value (the doc gets really jittery when he takes it, and doesn't feel productive, but scatterbrained and unnerved)... the doctor would stop using it here.

So, the only case where the doctor WOULD actually use the drug is if it were useful to him and he saw some benefit out of it.

Okay, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Some drugs (including speed) have a strong tendency to addict. When you are addicted to a drug, your brain convinces you that you need it to survive - so you will continue to take the drug in increasingly large amounts regardless of the so-called "therapeutic value." I was a smoker for 7 years, and I can tell you that it didn't to anything good to me, but I continued to smoke - knowing that it could kill me - because I was addicted to it.

Hypothetical: A doctor takes speed and feels great. He takes it again and feels great. After a few weeks, he starts feeling pretty down and depressed, and the only time he feels "normal" is when he takes his drug of choice. Then his performance starts to suffer because he can't be on speed ALL of the time and when he comes down, he comes down HARD. Unfortunately, he still *thinks* that he's wonderful because of all the bad things the drugs are doing to his mind... That's what I see happening when you start using a drug like Adderall on a regular basis.

Also, just because YOU (the Adderall user) think you see some "benefit" to using a drug, doesn't mean there actually is one - drugs do a really good job of convincing you that you are the smartest, coolest, most whatever person in the world - can you really trust your judgement when your brain's chemistry is being significantly altered?

 

[gottalovemilk]

ok. i do not think the OP was looking for a debate about this. i see that everyone on here has excellent time management by wasting their time indulging themselves in a debate that will never end.

again, to the OP, taking these drugs will NOT make you smarter, just more awake. Even people who have time management down to the minute need extra help in being able to be awake and attentive to their tasks. take caffeine pills, ritalin, adderall, or whatever you can have access to. People are different and will have side effects ranging from anything to everything to nothing. although med school will be 100x harder than undergrad, your drug use will probably not change if you keep your hours of sleep set and put your drug intake around your schedule accordingly.

i never used aderrall. i tend to let a bunch of people use a new drug first to see the potential side effects the manifest in users. you should start out with the weakest controlled substance first (ritalin) and work your way up. if the doc does not subscibe any controlled substance, try OTC drugs that have 200mg of caffeine in them. good luck.

 

[Wertt]

What an awesome thread -
I had no idea there were so many pill-poppers out there! And now I feel so great that I was able to do well in undergrad without taking them, while apparently close to 50% of the other gunners were riding high.

Thanks for the confidence boost!

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Okay, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Some drugs (including speed) have a strong tendency to addict. When you are addicted to a drug, your brain convinces you that you need it to survive - so you will continue to take the drug in increasingly large amounts regardless of the so-called "therapeutic value." I was a smoker for 7 years, and I can tell you that it didn't to anything good to me, but I continued to smoke - knowing that it could kill me - because I was addicted to it.

Sorry, I am going to have to disagree with you 100%. Nicotine (like heroin / other opiates, and to a much lesser degree sex and good food) stimulates the mesolimbic dopaminergic pathway in the brain -- aka the addiction pathway. Speed doesn't do the same. Any addiction is purely psychological and NOT physiological.

Your other hypotheticals about the drug demonstrate that you have no idea how it works or what it does. It simply works on *attention and vigilance*.

It isn't about "feeling great / smarter" -- it isn't an antidepressant, anxiolytic and does not induce mania.

There are objective measures to assessing its performance: is the user getting more work done? That's something that can't be faked. Is the user clearing out his backlog of *mundane* tasks? (in addition to offering increased attention overall, amphetamines *specifically* target tasks which the brain has labelled mundane)

Again, whether I agree with adderall usage or not, all it effectively does is give users "more time".

 

[lilnoelle]

What an awesome thread -
I had no idea there were so many pill-poppers out there! And now I feel so great that I was able to do well in undergrad without taking them, while apparently close to 50% of the other gunners were riding high.

Thanks for the confidence boost!

Yeah, I had the same thoughts!

 

[Wertt]

Sorry, I am going to have to disagree with you 100%. Nicotine (like heroin / other opiates, and to a much lesser degree sex and good food) stimulates the mesolimbic dopaminergic pathway in the brain -- aka the addiction pathway. Speed doesn't do the same. Any addiction is purely psychological and NOT physiological.

Actually, the very fact that the drug is schedule II means it has the potential to cause addiction, like any stimulant - though granted that this is unlikely in the smaller doses administered by a physician, and is more 'psychological' than the sensation of pain associated with opiate withdrawal.

But when the drug is being taken in excess, by someone not monitored by a physician and not understanding when enough is enough...

From psychealth.com/adderall

Problems: Tolerance, extreme psychological dependence, and severe social disability have occurred. There are reports of patients who have increased the dosage to many times that recommended. Abrupt cessation following prolonged high dosage administration results in extreme fatigue and mental depression; changes are also noted on the sleep EEG. Manifestations of chronic intoxication with amphetamines include severe dermatoses, marked insomnia, irritability, hyperactivity, and personality changes. The most severe manifestation of chronic intoxication is psychosis, often clinically indistinguishable from schizophrenia. This is rare with oral amphetamines.

 

[drhouse]

You all are nuts. It's not that big of a deal.

 

[Wertt]

You all are nuts. It's not that big of a deal.

Not for you, and for most. But it has the potential to be, and that's the problem. If someone relies on it in undergrad and then becomes more dependent on it with the increased workload in Med school, it could conceivably result in a severe dependence. Then if it is not available... No one wants a surgeon with that type of achilles heel.

 

[Rafa]

What an awesome thread -
I had no idea there were so many pill-poppers out there! And now I feel so great that I was able to do well in undergrad without taking them, while apparently close to 50% of the other gunners were riding high.

Thanks for the confidence boost!

If you have to spend this much time defending a controlled substance, perhaps that's a sign of why it should be controlled.

 

[CaipirinhaQuinho]

i hope my doctor has experienced enough of life to tell me what will and will not kill me. I would prefer it if his personal experiences motivated his opinions instead of only what he read in some book.

relax. people die at 30 year's old for no reason. enjoy life while you have it.

preventative medicine = preventative life.

 

[Rafa]

i hope my doctor has experienced enough of life to tell me what will and will not kill me. I would prefer it if his personal experiences motivated his opinions instead of only what he read in some book.

I hope my doctor doesn't beat his significant other to tell me what leather belts do to the human body. I would prefer it if he relied on his medical education ("some book") over his prior history of stripper's butt coke-sniffing when it came to providing his medical opinions on medical cases.

 

[nicholasblonde]

Amen.

ummmm..yeah...you and will ferell are idiots...the only way you can bash someone for taking adderall is if you have also never used anything with caffeine and never drank alcohol...human beings have been using chemicals to improve their performance since the beginning of time...adderall, because it actually had to go through FDA approval processes, and because it is a time-tested drug used on millions of people over 20 years or so, is far from the worst thing you could put in your body.

Caffeine consumption increases your risk of heart disease, among other things...adderall has a lower side effect profile than caffeine...who the heck are you to tell people what they can and can't go get a prescription for?

 

[CaipirinhaQuinho]

thanks for the rude comments.

i hope your not my doctor because you have no sense of reality.

 

[nicholasblonde]

Actually, the very fact that the drug is schedule II means it has the potential to cause addiction, like any stimulant - though granted that this is unlikely in the smaller doses administered by a physician, and is more 'psychological' than the sensation of pain associated with opiate withdrawal.

But when the drug is being taken in excess, by someone not monitored by a physician and not understanding when enough is enough...

From psychealth.com/adderall

Problems: Tolerance, extreme psychological dependence, and severe social disability have occurred. There are reports of patients who have increased the dosage to many times that recommended. Abrupt cessation following prolonged high dosage administration results in extreme fatigue and mental depression; changes are also noted on the sleep EEG. Manifestations of chronic intoxication with amphetamines include severe dermatoses, marked insomnia, irritability, hyperactivity, and personality changes. The most severe manifestation of chronic intoxication is psychosis, often clinically indistinguishable from schizophrenia. This is rare with oral amphetamines.

Oh yeah, well here is the risk profile for caffeine, idiot:

Common:

Diarrhea; dizziness; fast heartbeat; hyperglycemia, including blurred vision, drowsiness, dry mouth, flushed dry skin, fruit-like breath odor, increased urination, ketones in urine, loss of appetite, nausea, stomachache, tiredness, troubled breathing, unusual thirst, or vomiting (in newborn babies); hypoglycemia, including anxious feeling, blurred vision, cold sweats, confusion, cool pale skin, drowsiness, excessive hunger, fast heartbeat, nausea, nervousness, restless sleep, shakiness, or unusual tiredness or weakness (in newborn babies); irritability, nervousness, or severe jitters (in newborn babies); nausea (severe) ; tremors; trouble in sleeping ; vomiting

In cases of excessive consumption:

Abdominal or stomach pain; agitation, anxiety, excitement, or restlessness; confusion or delirium; convulsions (seizures)—in acute overdose ; dehydration; faster breathing rate; fast or irregular heartbeat; fever; frequent urination; headache; increased sensitivity to touch or pain ; irritability; muscle trembling or twitching; nausea and vomiting, sometimes with blood; overextending the body with head and heels bent backward and body bowed forward; painful, swollen abdomen or vomiting (in newborn babies); ringing or other sounds in ears; seeing flashes of “zig-zag” lights; trouble in sleeping; whole-body tremors (in newborn babies)

 

[Wertt]

stripper's butt coke-sniffing

LOL

 

[Wolfgang12345]

Sorry, I am going to have to disagree with you 100%. Nicotine (like heroin / other opiates, and to a much lesser degree sex and good food) stimulates the mesolimbic dopaminergic pathway in the brain -- aka the addiction pathway. Speed doesn't do the same. Any addiction is purely psychological and NOT physiological.

Your other hypotheticals about the drug demonstrate that you have no idea how it works or what it does. It simply works on *attention and vigilance*.

It isn't about "feeling great / smarter" -- it isn't an antidepressant, anxiolytic and does not induce mania.

There are objective measures to assessing its performance: is the user getting more work done? That's something that can't be faked. Is the user clearing out his backlog of *mundane* tasks? (in addition to offering increased attention overall, amphetamines *specifically* target tasks which the brain has labelled mundane)

Again, whether I agree with adderall usage or not, all it effectively does is give users "more time".

Well, it's true that I have never done speed, so I don't know exactly what it feels like to be on it.

But amphetamines are absolutely physiologically addicitive. Here is one source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamines The dopaminergic pathway is not the "addiction pathway." It is one of the chemical reward mechanisms of the brain and is also tied closely with satisfaction from eating and having sex - which is why it is so hard to quit heroin and cigs

In my opinion, of course...

 

[drhouse]

SAME RISK PROFILE FOR COFFEE IDIOT...who cares

Love it.

 

[Wertt]

Oh yeah, well here is the risk profile for caffeine, idiot:

Thanks, friend.

Well, I wouldn't want a doctor who needs 10+ cups of coffee just to operate either, which is how much you'd have to drink to get these effects.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Like others have said, people take caffeine all the time to study and no one gives a flying rat's @ss about it.

For that reason I'm not so concerned about people taking a stimulant to help them study. Personally, I think time management and study skills are a bit smarter choice, but to each their own.

Regardless of how dangerous/addictive adderall may or may not be, what concerns me is that students (future doctors included) would break the law to give themselves an advantage. Underage drinking/smoking pot aren't particularly relevant to this discussion unless they are being used in such a manner as to effect your studies. If you have a medical necessity for adderall, fine.

 

[nicholasblonde]

Thanks, friend.

Well, I wouldn't want a doctor who needs 10+ cups of coffee just to operate either, which is how much you'd have to drink to get these effects.

I GUARANTEE there are a dozen doctors who drink 10+ cups of coffee a day...I assume you have the clinical experience to know that...I worked in a coffee shop for 5 years, friend, and I served a neurosurgery resident the equivalent of 10-15 cups of coffee a day, along with an OB/GYN, an oncologist, and an ER doc pulling 12 hour swing shifts...it's pretty common.

 

[nicholasblonde]

let's just pass a law that bans stimulants in the workplace...that would probably work wonderfully!

 

[Rafa]

let's just pass a law that bans stimulants in the workplace...that would probably work wonderfully.

Doesn't sound like a bad idea.

 

[Wertt]

I GUARANTEE there are a dozen doctors who drink 10+ cups of coffee a day...I assume you have the clinical experience to know that...I worked in a coffee shop for 5 years, friend, and I served a neurosurgery resident the equivalent of 10-15 cups of coffee a day, along with an OB/GYN, an oncologist, and an ER doc pulling 12 hour swing shifts...it's pretty common.

You can use the coffee analogy to justify adderall abuse, but I still think it's much easier to develop severe dependence and withdrawal symptoms on amphetamines like Adderall than with caffeine.

You would have to be drinking huge volumes of coffee continuously to get even close to the same withdrawal syndrome (one adderall = 4 cups coffee) when you go cold turkey.

 

[Hoya11]

You can use the coffee analogy to justify adderall abuse, but I still think it's much easier to develop severe dependence and withdrawal symptoms on amphetamines like Adderall than with caffeine.

You would have to be drinking huge volumes of coffee continuously to get even close to the same withdrawal syndrome (one adderall = 4 cups coffee) when you go cold turkey.

I think that some people may be confused as to what the actual effects of adderall are.

Adderall is mental. Yes you are hyper and dont sleep and get a dry throat, but it is more than just being yourself plus physical energy. Your conversations are different, your interactions with people are different. your brain overall is different on it than off it.

Its not like you would ever want to take it before a surgery, or before work. It doesnt help you "get stuff done". It helps you concentrate mentally on small details. Its only for school and tests.

coffee, you are still yourself in your head, just with more energy.

Let me also say that whoever said you can only remember and recall what you learned when you are on it is dead wrong. YOu can study the day before and wake up the next morning, take the exam with nothing and retain everything. There are bad effects from it though, like sleeping for days after and being depressed for a few days...

 

[Dr. Little]

i hope my doctor has experienced enough of life to tell me what will and will not kill me. I would prefer it if his personal experiences motivated his opinions instead of only what he read in some book.

relax. people die at 30 year's old for no reason. enjoy life while you have it.

preventative medicine = preventative life.

I agree.... Doctor House is really the only other person who is real.... 3/4 of the people who have posted are all head-up-their-ass pre-meds. Never smoked pot, done an unprescribed drug, even some who are freaking virgins!! What we have off too much in medicine nowadays is lame ass doctors. Book craming nerds who would get hustled in the real world in 1 second. But they're "cool" cuz they went out to a few bars in college! Personally what I would look for in a doctor is of course knowledge, but also realness... I can already tell I am going to hate so many of my peers next year.....

 

[Will Ferrell]

I agree.... Doctor House is really the only other person who is real.... 3/4 of the people who have posted are all head-up-their-ass pre-meds. Never smoked pot, done an unprescribed drug, even some who are freaking virgins!! What we have off too much in medicine nowadays is lame ass doctors. Book craming nerds who would get hustled in the real world in 1 second. But they're "cool" cuz they went out to a few bars in college! Personally what I would look for in a doctor is of course knowledge, but also realness... I can already tell I am going to hate so many of my peers next year.....

taking speed for studying isn't real or cool. it's gunnerish. that's like baseball players taking steroids to keep up w/ the competition. btw, i've done several of the things on your "real things list". can i join your gang, todd?

 

[Wolfgang12345]

taking speed for studying isn't real or cool. it's gunnerish. that's like baseball players taking steroids to keep up w/ the competition. btw, i've done several of the things on your "real things list". can i join your gang, todd?

I totally agree.

I don't think that anyone should be making ridiculous assumptions based on one opinion. I happened to spend my college years in NYC - which some people tend to think is "cool" - and did my fare share of drugs. Not that I'm proud of it... but maybe some of our opinions come from experience and should be taken seriously. I don't think I'll be pushed around as a doctor; I am pretty street saavy and get along well with all types of people - and I don't think that taking speed to get a better grade is a cool or wise thing to do.

 

[troszic]

Let me start out by saying that I'm all for alcohol and marijuana.

Now, taking drugs to enhance your performance is pathetic. It's a way of running away from the fact that there is something deficient about you. If you do not have the focus to accomplish a task that requires patience, or the willpower to force yourself to do it, then those are things that you absolutely must improve. Taking drugs to compensate for inability to study is a quick fix; it does not build patience, focus, or willpower.

People who take drugs for test performance are like fat people who, instead of eating right and hitting the gym, get liposuction or take those silly metabolizers. You're attacking the symptoms, but leaving the underlying problem.

And that problem, of course, is lack of discipline (for both cases). Since discipline is something that needs to be maintained, using shortcuts and quick fixes can quickly move from a quick fix to a crutch. Furthermore, once its ok to use a shortcut in one aspect of your life, you start cutting corners everywhere. A bad precedent is set.

This is especially crucial to people of our age. We are losing the pliability of mind that we had in our younger years, and it is getting harder to memorize and retain new facts. As we get older and older, we need to work harder and harder to keep our minds in top condition. And this takes discipline.

Conclusion: People who take adderall are blubbering vaginas. It is undignified and they are inadequate as human beings, not because they are incapable of doing well on tests naturally, but rather because they are the type of people who have no willpower.

I don't drink coffee either, so don't call me a hypocrite.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

The dopaminergic pathway is not the "addiction pathway." It is one of the chemical reward mechanisms of the brain and is also tied closely with satisfaction from eating and having sex - which is why it is so hard to quit heroin and cigs

Of course it is the addiction pathway. If something stimulates that reward pathway strong enough, then there will be a physiological NEED for more of it. cf the experiment (I am too lazy to pubmed) where rats were found dead (of starvation) with their hands on a button that stimulated the pathway (where there was another button for food).

 

[mcDreamy]

I've read some of the posts about "I would not want a doctor who didnt know what drugs actually felt like" or "I would never vote for a President who didnt at least experiment with crack" and its just a load of BULL****. Are you so damn scared of failing that you just cant trust yourself enough to work hard, bust your ass, and study for your damn tests??

You know what I would be afraid of? NOT a doctor who hasn't experimented with everything but the kitchen sink, but a doctor who runs away and hides at the first sight of failure.

 

[dilated]

Conclusion: People who take adderall are blubbering vaginas. It is undignified and they are inadequate as human beings, not because they are incapable of doing well on tests naturally, but rather because they are the type of people who have no willpower.

I don't drink coffee either, so don't call me a hypocrite.

Conclusion: People who make sweeping condemnations of broad categories of people based on their own bizarre belief systems are douchebags. Congratulations, I'm sure you're at least seven thousand times better than all those people who drink coffee to study. Perhaps they will feature you on next month's cover of Nietzsche Monthly as the new Uberman.

 

[retroMD]

Are you so damn scared of failing that you just cant trust yourself enough to work hard, bust your ass, and study for your damn tests??

Werd

 

[jg121]

Any of you pre-meds out there try it/ use it regularly.... I'm trying to get a prescription tomorrow... I've done it before and damn is it amazing.... I can sit for 8 hours and study nonstop... I plan on using it for the MCATS too... but I'm cautious b\c taking it now can make it harder in med school when school is 100x's harder.... anybody know anything about it???????

Sigh, you're a prospective future doctor. Have some integrity, buttmunch.

 

[SirTony76]

The key to success isn't really adderall, its drinking alcohol. It will kill off all the weak brain cells making you smarter. That's how I stay one up on all of the people taking adderall at my school.

You guys that are saying stuff about "oh I wouldn't vote for a president who hasn't snorted an 8-ball..." are making a pretty good case to put Tommy Lee in the white house. I admit, it would be pretty entertaining.

But in all seriousness, don't try and justify cheating. You just make yourself look like a *******. It will (eventually) catch up.

TP

 

[red dot]

adderall will totally f*ck you up especially for the mcat.

why? because it's only really good for math/sciences, not reading and writing. so reading mcat passages, and the writing sample part isn't so great with uppers. and worse, you don't know when you'll crash... and then even if you do, you don't know when the test will be over, since it depends on the proctors and number of people there and the time it takes for everyone and the paper shuffling to move along. bad bad bad and totally unpredictable. besides, you can't use it all the time all the way through med school. even if you did and you didn't die from it, you're still going to be a doctor, right? (ok, i'll get off the soapbox now)

anyway, people only take adderall to 1) focus and 2) stay awake. that isn't your problem when it comes to taking that test. (so as long as you don't sit next to some schmoe who farts orwhose phone goes off, and you kinda slept at least 3 hours beforehand because of pre-test anxiety, you're fine.) i say, caffeine and msg if you absolutely must choose to go the unhealthy route. they tell you to eat a good breakfast and all that stuff. me, i hit up peet's for a triple shot nonfat latte and then had pad thai during the lunch break to carry me through.

p.s. jg121: buttmunch? hahaha! i love it!

 

[gottalovemilk]

sorry, when i mentioned adderall being relatively new and side effects not really known yet, i confused it with strattera. adderall is known, but i still have not tried it nor will since i'm happy with ritalin. Now for strattera, it is NOT classified as a controlled substance (http://www.strattera.com/1_1_about_strattera/1_1_about.jsp) and a new drug that was put out a 3-4yrs ago.


btw, some great alternatives to controlled substances are caffiene pills that contain 200mg (~2 cups of coffee/pill). Vivian (http://www.vivarin.com/home.aspx) and of course its generics.

 

[phosphorus pet]

btw, some great alternatives to controlled substances are caffiene pills that contain 200mg (~2 cups of coffee/pill). Vivian (http://www.vivarin.com/home.aspx) and of course its generics.

Did you not learn anything from Saved By the Bell? Clearly, caffeine pills are not the way to go:

Zach: Jesse, you have to sing tonight!
Jesse: What?! Oh, I've gotta find something to wear!
Zach: No, they already have costumes for you.
Jesse: Oh, I've gotta wash my hair!
Zach: Jesse, there's no time!
Jesse: No time? There's never any time! I don't have time to study, I'll never get into Stanford...

Zach: It's okay, it'll be fine...
Jesse: Yeah, you're right. I just need one of these.
Zach: Caffeine pills? Slater was right, you have been taking pills!
Jesse: Give them to me! No, Zack! I need them!

Zach: Jesse! you CAN'T sing tonight!
Jesse: Yes I can! *singing* I'm so excited!... I'm so excited!...I'm so... SCARED!

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Did you not learn anything from Saved By the Bell? Clearly, caffeine pills are not the way to go:

Zach: Jesse, you have to sing tonight!
Jesse: What?! Oh, I've gotta find something to wear!
Zach: No, they already have costumes for you.
Jesse: Oh, I've gotta wash my hair!
Zach: Jesse, there's no time!
Jesse: No time? There's never any time! I don't have time to study, I'll never get into Stanford...

Zach: It's okay, it'll be fine...
Jesse: Yeah, you're right. I just need one of these.
Zach: Caffeine pills? Slater was right, you have been taking pills!
Jesse: Give them to me! No, Zack! I need them!

Zach: Jesse! you CAN'T sing tonight!
Jesse: Yes I can! *singing* I'm so excited!... I'm so excited!...I'm so... SCARED!

One of the best EVER moments in the history of TV

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ljtuGoIIKGs&search=&quot;saved by the bell&quot; jesse

 

[johnc]

I have thought about this before for a long time and I have come to the conclusion it doesn't really bother me. Everybody should do whatever the hell they want to (they do anyway). I can study 10 hours straight without any drugs or stimulants. So just bring it people. Let other people do whatever they think is necessary, take drugs/cheat/maim/kill etc. I can become a doctor without sacrificing my morals. In the end all that really matters anyway are the acceptances.

Plus there is nothing like owning adderall addicts on exams.

Note, I am not suggesting anything to anybody. Just offering my opinion.

 

[Little30]

Yesssssss I Can't Believe You Brang That Up!!!

I Loved That Episode!!!!!

 

[PHellmuth]

This post has followed the same direction that any ethics-related question takes on SDN... About half to 2/3 of the replies have been from pre-meds who are taking the prospect of being a doctor way too seriously and have adopted some "holier than thou" attitude. I recall a thread from a while ago where the OP asked if you could bump someone from getting a liver transplant so that your mother could get it, would you? And half of the asses who replied basically said (in more words) "Screw my mom, that would be wrong." I think all that MCAT studying and cramming for orgo fries peoples' brains.

I'm reasonably confident that most premeds don't really care one way or the other about adderall, and though they might not personally take it, wouldn't mind if someone else did or not. I think SDN gives us a very skewed sample, since it takes a certain level of obsession over med school to be on here regularly anyways (though I am in that group as well, so not knocking the site). As I recall, the drinking / virginity polls confirm that SDN'ers could stand to get out more and relax.

 

[boilerbeast]

adderall...
what about Provigil?
Drug for narcolepsy, used a lot on the wards when people have been up for a few days.

Would everyone be so against adderall, etc. if it meant doctors were more aware and thus made fewer mistakes? I dunno.

 

[cloverpie]

This post has followed the same direction that any ethics-related question takes on SDN... About half to 2/3 of the replies have been from pre-meds who are taking the prospect of being a doctor way too seriously and have adopted some "holier than thou" attitude. I recall a thread from a while ago where the OP asked if you could bump someone from getting a liver transplant so that your mother could get it, would you? And half of the asses who replied basically said (in more words) "Screw my mom, that would be wrong." I think all that MCAT studying and cramming for orgo fries peoples' brains.

I'm reasonably confident that most premeds don't really care one way or the other about adderall, and though they might not personally take it, wouldn't mind if someone else did or not. I think SDN gives us a very skewed sample, since it takes a certain level of obsession over med school to be on here regularly anyways (though I am in that group as well, so not knocking the site). As I recall, the drinking / virginity polls confirm that SDN'ers could stand to get out more and relax.

Amen. What really scared me about the original post is the lengths to which this person was willing to potentially endanger their own physical and mental health to get into medical school. It's also sad that someone should just not use their resolve and judgment and that doesn't bode well for whatever career they pursue. I'm really amazed at how insecure and hypocritical many of the responses were, however. Most of you should just admit that you were pissed that the speed addict next door aced orgo when you didn't after your 40 oz. of Mountain Dew instead of putting up a front of righteous indignation. I'm willing to bet that at least as many people would be popping adderall as there were angry respondents to this thread if adderall were over the counter. And you wonder why people hate pre-meds so much?

 

[whoispittsnogle]

i full support adderall. tried the product and now i'm a believer. without it i wouldn't have gotten As in orgo and cellbio.

 

[thegymbum]

I swear, taking that stuff too much when you don't have add gives you an acquired case of add, lol. I don't really recommend it. Your body just gets used to it and then it isn't helpful, and if you don't take it, you're kind of in a bind. I'd say if you don't have add, it's not worth it, it probably won't help you in the long run.

 

[Depakote]

Not this **** again...

-_-

 

[zubr]

dr house, look it up, adderall is just the name of dextroamphetamine. it's a schedule ii controlled substance. just because you have "a dealer" doesn't mean it's not speed.

Aside from a brief hiatus between 1992 and 1996, it has been standard procedure since 1960 for USAF pilots to use the drugs as a means of staying alert on long missions. The policy is supported by a US Air Force study finding that 101 military aircraft accidents between 1977 and 1997 were attributable to fatigue.
In addition, a 2000 report by the US Naval Aerospace Medical Research Laboratory found that doses of about 5mg of dextro-amphetamine “help maintain alertness without causing changes in mood or perception”. The report went on to say that while medication wasn’t a substitute for good fatigue management, experience during 1991’s Operation Desert Storm indicated that stimulant use had a place on the modern battlefield.

 

[Rafa]

Aside from a brief hiatus between 1992 and 1996, it has been standard procedure since 1960 for USAF pilots to use the drugs as a means of staying alert on long missions.

Just when I thought the pre-med arrogance couldn't get any bigger...