What are current thoughts on remote interviews for the coming cycle?

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

I don’t know whether I ask this as a thought exercise or seeking feedback from those in admissions and current medical students, but either way it is something I have been wondering of late and which I feel is fast approaching necessity in knowing for those applying this coming cycle.

With the National push to have vaccines available for all US adults by May the end of May, what are our current thoughts on remote interviews for this coming cycle?
I see a few confounding variables that I believe should be considered.

1) Vaccine stock availability is different than vaccine distribution availability. At just above 2 million doses a day, we are nearing the upper reaches of the capabilities of current vaccine distribution capacity. Even if capacity were to double today, we would be looking at mid-June before all adults are vaccinated assuming 100% compliance. Will schools wait until after AMCAS has already opened before announcing in person or remote?

2) There will not be 100% compliance. When we have some states with less than herd immunity levels due to malfeasance of the distrusting public, how good of an idea is it to bring 2 dozen individuals from across the country together in close quarters, send them on their way back to potential bastions of viral centers, only to recall these 2 dozen individuals back to completely new cities amongst new individuals from across the country?

3) Think of the children. Kids will not be vaccinated until the end of Summer at the earliest. For applicants and interviewers with children, is the risk of repeated far-reaching exposure worth it?

4) non-essential International travel May very well be blocked well into the summer. For international applicants or residents living/working abroad, this presents a major hindrance, disadvantage, and potential roadblock to applying. Additionally, we face the same dilemma posed by unequal vaccine distribution in the states - should international applicants return abroad to countries not as well-endowed in vaccinations as the US prior to returning?

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[Goro]

All of these are considerations, but you are forgetting one more factor: the incidence of COVIF-19.

IF we can hit herd immunity by then, the lack of vaccination might be a moot point.

 

[KnightDoc]

I don’t know whether I ask this as a thought exercise or seeking feedback from those in admissions and current medical students, but either way it is something I have been wondering of late and which I feel is fast approaching necessity in knowing for those applying this coming cycle.

With the National push to have vaccines available for all US adults by May the end of May, what are our current thoughts on remote interviews for this coming cycle?
I see a few confounding variables that I believe should be considered.

1) Vaccine stock availability is different than vaccine distribution availability. At just above 2 million doses a day, we are nearing the upper reaches of the capabilities of current vaccine distribution capacity. Even if capacity were to double today, we would be looking at mid-June before all adults are vaccinated assuming 100% compliance. Will schools wait until after AMCAS has already opened before announcing in person or remote?

2) There will not be 100% compliance. When we have some states with less than herd immunity levels due to malfeasance of the distrusting public, how good of an idea is it to bring 2 dozen individuals from across the country together in close quarters, send them on their way back to potential bastions of viral centers, only to recall these 2 dozen individuals back to completely new cities amongst new individuals from across the country?

3) Think of the children. Kids will not be vaccinated until the end of Summer at the earliest. For applicants and interviewers with children, is the risk of repeated far-reaching exposure worth it?

4) non-essential International travel May very well be blocked well into the summer. For international applicants or residents living/working abroad, this presents a major hindrance, disadvantage, and potential roadblock to applying. Additionally, we face the same dilemma posed by unequal vaccine distribution in the states - should international applicants return abroad to countries not as well-endowed in vaccinations as the US prior to returning?

Great questions!!! We would all like to know, and I'm sure the schools will push the info out as soon as they make decisions. UF has already announced they are going to be virtual next year. So far, that's the only one I've seen.

That said, some of your points are kind of moot. The entire universe being 100% vaccinated is not really the standard. As long as YOU are vaccinated, and everyone you come in contact with at the interview has been vaccinated, I would think the schools will be comfortable bringing people in.

It certainly looks like that standard will be able to be met by mid summer. If any applicant turns out to be an anti-vaxxer, that's probably something the adcom will find relevant to include in a file.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

All of these are considerations, but you are forgetting one more factor: the incidence of COVIF-19.

IF we can hit herd immunity by then, the lack of vaccination might be a moot point.

I know you are just one ADCOM at one DO school in one part of the country, but what is your school(s) plan? Or are they really not starting to formalize plans just a month out from applications opening?

 

[Goro]

I know you are just one ADCOM at one DO school in one part of the country, but what is your school(s) plan? Or are they really not starting to formalize plans just a month out from applications opening?

We haven't decided yet

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

We haven't decided yet

That is genuinely terrifying that plans for entire application cycle aren’t even decided on the format just a few months out. I get that the future is uncertain, but things would be less of a clusterf* this coming cycle when compared to how the early days of this last cycle went if schools just made those commitments and plans now. Crazy, thanks for sharing.

 

[Goro]

That is genuinely terrifying that plans for entire application cycle aren’t even decided on the format just a few months out. I get that the future is uncertain, but things would be less of a clusterf* this coming cycle when compared to how the early days of this last cycle went if schools just made those commitments and plans now. Crazy, thanks for sharing.

It's only March. We don't interview until September. Med schools overall don't get serious about setting up IIs until after Labor Day.

What is the problem that you perceive?

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

It's only March. We don't interview until September. Med schools overall don't get serious about setting up IIs until after Labor Day.

What is the problem that you perceive?

Budgeting for in person interviews is a lot different than budgeting for remote interviews.

not just money but time. Time off of work, etc.

 

[deleted1054719]

Budgeting for in person interviews is a lot different than budgeting for remote interviews.

not just money but time. Time off of work, etc.

Always plan for the worst case scenario - in this case, that being in-person interview costs in my opinion. I doubt all schools will be virtual this season and most likely, you'll see some doing full virtual, some hybrid (virtual interview + in-person visit day), some full in-person. So in all likelihood, you'll be doing some traveling.

 

[Goro]

Budgeting for in person interviews is a lot different than budgeting for remote interviews.

not just money but time. Time off of work, etc.

Takes a lot of hubris to assume that you'll be getting interviews, especially in Sept.

Suppose that this were a normal cycle...what would you be doing?

Then do that.

If we maintain the status quo, you won't be out any money.

 

[KnightDoc]

Budgeting for in person interviews is a lot different than budgeting for remote interviews.

not just money but time. Time off of work, etc.

You are making the rookie mistake that we all make in the beginning -- thinking that they care about us rather than themselves. Whenever the urge strikes, just keep telling yourself "sellers' market"!!

For us, it's a HUGE difference in time, money and logistics. For them, it's sitting at a desk in front of a computer, or sitting at a desk in front of a candidate. Don't get too hung up on lunch, lining up students to give tours, etc. That's nothing in terms of planning or logistics, or even money, given how much money they generate through the process.

Agreed -- it would be great if we get another virtual year before they go back to in person. Unfortunately, as @LizzyM likes to say about clinical experience, I'm sure the adcoms would much rather be able to smell and touch us before making decisions, since mistakes are so potentially costly for both them and us.

I am planning on everything to be in person, and will be very pleasantly surprised if anything is virtual, as, I already noted, UF will be. You need to realize that schools REALLY don't need to finalize a decision until right up until the time they issue IIs, so you can't blame them for waiting as long as possible in order to have the best possible information at their disposal.

My guess is that they want to go in person, but are not comfortable making that call right now, so they are waiting. If they knew they were going to go virtual, there is nothing stopping them from communicating that right now, as UF has done. JMHO as someone who will be applying alongside you.

 

[KnightDoc]

That is genuinely terrifying that plans for entire application cycle aren’t even decided on the format just a few months out. I get that the future is uncertain, but things would be less of a clusterf* this coming cycle when compared to how the early days of this last cycle went if schools just made those commitments and plans now. Crazy, thanks for sharing.

Trust me, this cycle will not be a cluster-blank, as evidenced by the fact that AMCAS is not delaying initial transmissions to the schools, like it did last year. Last year, the pandemic came out of nowhere. No one was ready, no one knew how to function, and no one knew how long it would last. Shutdowns came and went, workflows were interrupted, etc., etc., etc.

A year later, with 2+ million shots in arms daily, and a year of working under these conditions under our collective belts, the cycle timeline will look exactly like it has every year before last, whether or not schools make us appear in person for interviews. There will be absolutely no cluster-blank either way. Take it to the bank!!!

The cycle will open on 5/3. Transmission to AMCAS will begin on 5/27, and transmission to schools will begin on 6/25. Schools know exactly what they are going to be doing, and when they are going to be doing it. The only thing undecided is whether, if you are fortunate enough to receive an II, you will be appearing in person or via video.

This is very important to you, and very far down on the list of things to worry about, today, for the schools. They are focusing on getting through the current cycle, and on waiting to see what the country looks like before making a decision.

 

[GoPenguinsGo]

All of these are considerations, but you are forgetting one more factor: the incidence of COVIF-19.

IF we can hit herd immunity by then, the lack of vaccination might be a moot point.

Ahh the fearsome COVIF-19. Its like COVID-19 except it infects via Zoom calls, rather than aerosol droplets

 

[Goro]

Ahh the fearsome COVIF-19. Its like COVID-19 except it infects via Zoom calls, rather than aerosol droplets

And you really don't want to know about COZID-19!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Ahh the fearsome COVIF-19. Its like COVID-19 except it infects via Zoom calls, rather than aerosol droplets

Infects those believe in Covfefe?

 

[LadyDustyBlue]

Always plan for the worst case scenario - in this case, that being in-person interview costs in my opinion. I doubt all schools will be virtual this season and most likely, you'll see some doing full virtual, some hybrid (virtual interview + in-person visit day), some full in-person. So in all likelihood, you'll be doing some traveling.

In the last few of days, I’ve heard different people tell me “anything worth doing won’t be easy”. They’re right.

On one hand, I’ll say this pandemic gave an impossible scenario for everyone, which made it different variables of stress than it normally would be. However, at this rate, any opportunity for in-person interviewing could be an advantage for some applicants, depending on the school & the goals of e/ applicant.

If I were applying this cycle, I’d probably have saved some money to travel too.

Besides, if you consider that this is usually what most people have done in the past, traveling for a med school interview feels like one of those rite of passages to a greater privilege. The idea of going through school interviews (pandemic or not), as someone who’s still in their pre-med stage, is certainly anxiety-inducing, but as Sherlock Holmes says, “The game is on (afoot)!”.

 

[9blade]

You should prepare as if you will be traveling for interviews. If you get an interview and the school says it's virtual, you get to save some money.

 

[KnightDoc]

You should prepare as if you will be traveling for interviews. If you get an interview and the school says it's virtual, you get to save some money.

New information!! This is hot off the presses from the admissions director at UCF:

It appears that almost all AAMC MD programs will continue with Virtual Interviews next cycle.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Who is @REL and why

New information!! This is hot off the presses from the admissions director at UCF:

should I trust them?
Also, MSAR appears to include a lot of “ we maaaay do virtual, but who knows *shrug*”

 

[KnightDoc]

Who is @REL and why

should I trust them?
Also, MSAR appears to include a lot of “ we maaaay do virtual, but who knows *shrug*”

Yes, you should trust him. Believe it or not, he is the actual, real live honest to goodness director of admissions at UCF, as opposed to a random anonymous adcom. If you check out the UCF school specific thread, he is unique for participating, providing an incredible amount of useful information, and being unbelievably transparent.

To my knowledge, the only other school that comes close is Case Western, where its admissions director not only participates on SDN, he also has an unbelievable podcast on his website.

If @REL says it's going to happen, it's going to happen. He never would have posted otherwise.

 

[deleted555445]

MSAR for Emory commits to in-person interviews

 

[KnightDoc]

MSAR for Emory commits to in-person interviews

Nice catch!!! I wonder why they haven't posted that information on their website??

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

MSAR for Emory commits to in-person interviews

What an odd thing to commit to. Perhaps they will be delaying interviews until later in the cycle to ensure in person

 

[KnightDoc]

What an odd thing to commit to. Perhaps they will be delaying interviews until later in the cycle to ensure in person

I doubt it! If they don't change, they are just doing their own thing. I'm actually very pleasantly surprised more schools aren't doing this. The consensus is that everyone who wants a vaccine will be able to get one by the summer, and I'm sure the expectation is that we will all have them and will be able to freely travel by then. There is no way they are going to push their cycle back for this!

 

[TheGranolaKing]

The new MSAR update also said that Keck USC would likely be in-person, UCSD might offer both in-person and virtual, and Baylor and Michigan would be virtual.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

I doubt it! If they don't change, they are just doing their own thing. I'm actually very pleasantly surprised more schools aren't doing this. The consensus is that everyone who wants a vaccine will be able to get one by the summer, and I'm sure the expectation is that we will all have them and will be able to freely travel by then. There is no way they are going to push their cycle back for this!

Isn’t Emory the one that interviews everyone in July and August? Or is that Tulane? Either way, yeah what you are saying makes sense.

 

[KnightDoc]

Isn’t Emory the one that interviews everyone in July and August? Or is that Tulane? Either way, yeah what you are saying makes sense.

I think that's Tulane. I'm not sure when they interview, but I definitely heard that they value early applicants. I don't think Emory is especially early. I'm just surprised they came out so early with definitely in person, since it costs them nothing to wait another few months, and they don't know what things are going to look like in June. But, whatever!

I was so excited by what @REL said yesterday that I'm not focused on anything else. The odds of getting any particular II is so low that it's not even worth thinking about for a single school or two. Knowing that most schools will be online is just such a relief. Now we just have to do our part and actually score those IIs!

 

[deleted555445]

MSAR for Emory commits to in-person interviews

FYI I just checked again today and MSAR has been changed, for Emory it now says, "The 2021-22 cycle will llikely be conducted remotely." This same info is on their website.

 

[proudofmykids]

Trust me, this cycle will not be a cluster-blank, as evidenced by the fact that AMCAS is not delaying initial transmissions to the schools, like it did last year. Last year, the pandemic came out of nowhere. No one was ready, no one knew how to function, and no one knew how long it would last. Shutdowns came and went, workflows were interrupted, etc., etc., etc.

A year later, with 2+ million shots in arms daily, and a year of working under these conditions under our collective belts, the cycle timeline will look exactly like it has every year before last, whether or not schools make us appear in person for interviews. There will be absolutely no cluster-blank either way. Take it to the bank!!!

:

Anxiety will peak if schools make their interviews the student’s choice for in-person or zoom.

 

[KnightDoc]

The cluster sh:t will really hit the fan if schools make their interviews the student’s choice for in-person or zoom.

Yeah. I saw that, but totally don't believe it's going to happen. The way it's shaking out, to my great surprise because it really works to the applicants' advantage and against the preference of the schools, is that many schools have already announced they will be virtual next cycle.

Probably because they still do not have 100% visibility into whether there are going to be setbacks in the reopening, and probably because virtual ended up being acceptable. A few announced in person, and quite a few haven't announced anything at all yet. It's clear they are not going to want to change once they begin.

I just really don't see them giving choices. If they do, given how neurotic we all are, I don't see too many taking advantage out of FOMO, even if they assure us all interviews will be treated the same. I can only speak for myself. I would absolutely LOOOVE to be able to not have to spend time and money to travel, but would never dare voluntarily opt to do so if an in person option is offered. I am pretty sure I am not unique in this respect.

 

[deleted555445]

The turd will really hit the fan if schools make their interviews the student’s choice for in-person or zoom.

i doubt they would do that, that would give an unfair advantage to wealthier applicants who can afford to travel more easily and interview better because they're in person. sure everyone used to travel to interviews so in theory everyone should be prepared to pay for travel, but if you have to take out a personal loan with a high interest rate to travel you're more likely to elect to do virtual.

 

[Goro]

i doubt they would do that, that would give an unfair advantage to wealthier applicants who can afford to travel more easily and interview better because they're in person. sure everyone used to travel to interviews so in theory everyone should be prepared to pay for travel, but if you have to take out a personal loan with a high interest rate to travel you're more likely to elect to do virtual.

I concur. As of right now my school is planning on Virtual interviews. What will be interesting is if some schools do live, and other schools do virtual.

 

[proudofmykids]

I concur. As of right now my school is planning on Virtual interviews. What will be interesting is if some schools do live, and other schools do virtual.

Even more interesting would be a comparison to their historic yield if they choose zoom while others do in-person.

 

[deleted555445]

Does virtual interviewing lead to schools offering more interviews? Is there any published data on this from this past cycle?

 

[deleted555445]

Does virtual interviewing lead to schools offering more interviews? Is there any published data on this from this past cycle?

Just as a case study, I looked at Vanderbilt, which publishing their admissions tracker on their website. Based on the WayBack Machine, on May 10th of last year they had sent out 658 II's. This year they sent out 758 II's. Thats a 15% increase. Just looking at one school doesn't give us too much information so I wouldn't make many assumptions off of this.

 

[KnightDoc]

Just as a case study, I looked at Vanderbilt, which publishing their admissions tracker on their website. Based on the WayBack Machine, on May 10th of last year they had sent out 658 II's. This year they sent out 758 II's. Thats a 15% increase. Just looking at one school doesn't give us too much information so I wouldn't make many assumptions off of this.

It's far too soon to have good data on this, since the cycle isn't even over yet!

During the past cycle, we all speculated as to whether schools were preparing for the possibility of top candidates hogging IIs and As, since it cost them nothing to take interviews they would have turned down in past cycles. Nobody really knows whether or not that happened, or whether or not schools issued more IIs, did more resource protecting, or did nothing in response.

What we do know, based on statements attributed to Vanderbilt, is that they extended their interview season and issued more IIs, not in response to virtual interviewing, but as a response to the explosion in the number of applications they received. Whether or not this is the new normal, and whether or not other schools do the same, remains to be seen.

 

[Goro]

Does virtual interviewing lead to schools offering more interviews? Is there any published data on this from this past cycle?

It did for us.

As the cycle isn't over, you're not going see any data for awhile.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

If there is the option of a choice in person or virtual, I will do virtual. I trust schools to have a fair and balanced system of evaluation in place. And if they are too incompetent to equally assess both paths, whatever. Not a school worth my time anyways and all I lose is a few hours instead of a thousand dollars on flights and hotels.

 

[KnightDoc]

If there is the option of a choice in person or virtual, I will do virtual. I trust schools to have a fair and balanced system of evaluation in place. And if they are too incompetent to equally assess both paths, whatever. Not a school worth my time anyways and all I lose is a few hours instead of a thousand dollars on flights and hotels.

That's certainly one way to look at it. Another way, assuming the applicant is not low SES, is that the applicant isn't serious enough about the school to invest the time and money in the visit. Who knows??? Why take a chance when so much is at stake?

"Not a school worth my time" assumes you will have lots of choices in a process in which over 60% will have zero choices, and half of the other 40% will only have one choice, and that choice just might have been a school "not worth your time," in which case you might have moved yourself from the 40% to the 60%! I totally hear you, and hope all of my schools are virtual, but I'd be too afraid to risk doing what you're talking about doing.

 

[LizzyM]

That's certainly one way to look at it. Another way, assuming the applicant is not low SES, is that the applicant isn't serious enough about the school to invest the time and money in the visit. Who knows??? Why take a chance when so much is at stake?

"Not a school worth my time" assumes you will have lots of choices in a process in which over 60% will have zero choices, and half of the other 40% will only have one choice, and that choice just might have been a school "not worth your time," in which case you might have moved yourself from the 40% to the 60%! I totally hear you, and hope all of my schools are virtual, but I'd be too afraid to risk doing what you're talking about doing.

Another way of looking at this will be that the choice of virtual vs in-person will favor those who live within a hour or two by car or train and who have family or friends in the area that they can stay with so that the cost of attending the interview are minimal. This could end up skewing the in-state/OOS proportion for admitted students and favoring those attending college in the vicinity.

 

[KnightDoc]

Another way of looking at this will be that the choice of virtual vs in-person will favor those who live within a hour or two by car or train and who have family or friends in the area that they can stay with so that the cost of attending the interview are minimal. This could end up skewing the in-state/OOS proportion for admitted students and favoring those attending college in the vicinity.

This is just another reason that I am pretty confident that schools won't be giving us choices. The trend seems to be virtual for at least one more cycle, but, if a school wants in person, it will be in person for everyone.

 

[Zuggelder]

Given the rate of vaccinations and the fact that even NYC is going to open up in a few weeks, if I were a betting man, I would say most interviews will be in person.

There is no excuse for not being vaccinated today, let alone in August. If you aren't vaccinated by then, you had no intention of getting vaccinated at all.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Given the rate of vaccinations and the fact that even NYC is going to open up in a few weeks, if I were a betting man, I would say most interviews will be in person.

There is no excuse for not being vaccinated today, let alone in August. If you aren't vaccinated by then, you had no intention of getting vaccinated at all.

I think three major points still stand in terms of coronavirus specifically that may lead to the potential for online interviews.
1) We are seeing complacency among the unvaccinated population, which currently stands at 50% of adults. That 50% of adults will likely only be down to 30% by August because as you said people still don’t want to get vaccinated and it’s a very high portion of the population.


2)100% of children will still not be vaccinated come August as it is likely not going to be until the end of summer or beginning of fall that vaccine vaccine for under 16 years old is approved. Combined, kids make up around 20% of the US population and the adults who won’t be vaccinated make up another 30 meeting that around 50% of the US population still won’t be vaccinated

3) remember the international factor. The US is doing supremely well in regards to vaccinations, but there are medical school applicants in Canada who are not so lucky. There are medical school applicants who are US citizens living abroad, international citizens apply for US admissions. They very well may not be vaccinated and if they are they’ll be coming from areas which have very high rates of infection. And Lumped into this category is going to be all of the variants that are coming about. India is a hotspot of Covid variants right now, and it is almost certain that a couple of variants will come out from India in the next three weeks to two months that the vaccine is less effective against or not effective against at all as countries start to loosen travel and people travel to and from areas with novel variants.

people were saying the same thing exactly a year ago that the AAMC would not cancel MCAT exams, that interviews would not be a virtual, that second looks would not get canceled. Yes, vaccines look good now but they are plateauing and pretty soon the level off. This thing is going to stick around for years to come. I don’t think that this cycle will be as simple as you would imagine.

 

[xffan624]

I think three major points still stand in terms of coronavirus specifically that may lead to the potential for online interviews.
1) We are seeing complacency among the unvaccinated population, which currently stands at 50% of adults. That 50% of adults will likely only be down to 30% by August because as you said people still don’t want to get vaccinated and it’s a very high portion of the population.


2)100% of children will still not be vaccinated come August as it is likely not going to be until the end of summer or beginning of fall that vaccine vaccine for under 16 years old is approved. Combined, kids make up around 20% of the US population and the adults who won’t be vaccinated make up another 30 meeting that around 50% of the US population still won’t be vaccinated

3) remember the international factor. The US is doing supremely well in regards to vaccinations, but there are medical school applicants in Canada who are not so lucky. There are medical school applicants who are US citizens living abroad, international citizens apply for US admissions. They very well may not be vaccinated and if they are they’ll be coming from areas which have very high rates of infection. And Lumped into this category is going to be all of the variants that are coming about. India is a hotspot of Covid variants right now, and it is almost certain that a couple of variants will come out from India in the next three weeks to two months that the vaccine is less effective against or not effective against at all as countries start to loosen travel and people travel to and from areas with novel variants.

people were saying the same thing exactly a year ago that the 8ANC would not cancel MCAT exams, that interviews would not be a virtual, that second looks would not get canceled. Yes, vaccines look good now but they are plateauing and pretty soon the level off. This thing is going to stick around for years to come. I don’t think that this cycle will be as simple as you would imagine.

The FDA is getting ready to approve 12-16 year olds for Pfizer very soon.

 

[KnightDoc]

Given the rate of vaccinations and the fact that even NYC is going to open up in a few weeks, if I were a betting man, I would say most interviews will be in person.

There is no excuse for not being vaccinated today, let alone in August. If you aren't vaccinated by then, you had no intention of getting vaccinated at all.

Fortunately for many of us, you would lose that bet. Many schools have already announced interviews will be remote for the upcoming cycle.

With any luck, virtual interviews will become the new paradigm due to the tremendous cost savings and convenience, which makes more interviews accessible to more people, particularly those who are less affluent. No reason not to go this way, assuming virtual got the job done for the schools last cycle, which it most certainly did.

Of course, all schools will not go along, even this cycle, and, no one really knows what will happen in the future, but, most interviews will NOT be in person in 2021-22. It's not a "vaccination" thing. It's a "we don't know whether there will be new variants" thing, a "we don't want to maybe have to change things after we set them in stone" thing, and, maybe, hopefully, a "even though we really don't care about applicants in general, we can't justify subjecting them to the cost and inconvenience of cross country travel when there is a reasonable alternative" thing.

If you need to touch and feel a place, you can always pay a visit on your own when things open back up. Plus, there will almost certainly be in person second looks next year, unless the pandemic takes a dramatic turn for the worse between now and then.

No need to guess. The latest information from each school is available on its web site as well as MSAR.

 

[Zuggelder]

Fortunately for many of us, you would lose that bet. Many schools have already announced interviews will be remote for the upcoming cycle.

With any luck, virtual interviews will become the new paradigm due to the tremendous cost savings and convenience, which makes more interviews accessible to more people, particularly those who are less affluent. No reason not to go this way, assuming virtual got the job done for the schools last cycle, which it most certainly did.

Of course, all schools will not go along, even this cycle, and, no one really knows what will happen in the future, but, most interviews will NOT be in person in 2021-22. It's not a "vaccination" thing. It's a "we don't know whether there will be new variants" thing, a "we don't want to maybe have to change things after we set them in stone" thing, and, maybe, hopefully, a "even though we really don't care about applicants in general, we can't justify subjecting them to the cost and inconvenience of cross country travel when there is a reasonable alternative" thing.

If you need to touch and feel a place, you can always pay a visit on your own when things open back up. Plus, there will almost certainly be in person second looks next year, unless the pandemic takes a dramatic turn for the worse between now and then.

No need to guess. The latest information from each school is available on its web site as well as MSAR.

I checked MSAR a week ago and most schools (>90%) in T55 have confirmed nothing about the 21-22 cycle. UChicago, UMichigan, and OSU are the only ones that have confirmed that everything will be virtual this upcoming cycle, from what I noted.

Most schools are in wait and watch mode and, given the positive trajectory of the pandemic, I think if these schools are willing to host in-person classes for their undergrads, then they should feel comfortable hosting interviews for vaccinated people.

As for cost, the vast majority of applicants have either 0, 1, or 2 interviews, so I don't think that's way too much spending on an applicant's part.

 

[KnightDoc]

I checked MSAR a week ago and most schools (>90%) in T55 have confirmed nothing about the 21-22 cycle. UChicago, UMichigan, and OSU are the only ones that have confirmed that everything will be virtual this upcoming cycle, from what I noted.

Most schools are in wait and watch mode and, given the positive trajectory of the pandemic, I think if these schools are willing to host in-person classes for their undergrads, then they should feel comfortable hosting interviews for vaccinated people.

As for cost, the vast majority of applicants have either 0, 1, or 2 interviews, so I don't think that's way too much spending on an applicant's part.

We'll see. As for what is "too much" spending, that is truly in the eyes of the beholder.

Just wondering, where are you getting your data from? In any event, people with zero IIs don't really count here, since it truly does not matter to them whether or not interviews are virtual.

Beyond that, I haven't seen anything saying the vast majority with interviews have 1 or 2, and, just as a matter of common sense, I seriously question anything that suggests that significantly more than 50% (the vast majority) of those with interviews have less than 3. Even if true, that doesn't mean they should have to take days off from work, or class, and travel, at their own expense, all over the country when there is a viable alternative.

The only figure I have seen published says that half of everyone with an acceptance has more than one. Some people have way more than one. After screening out everyone with zero interviews, I honestly don't believe that the vast majority of those with interviews have less than 3.

The pandemic has demonstrated that there always was a viable alternative, at least since high speed internet access became widely available. Now that this fact has been exposed, we'll see whether schools force a return to in person when things get back to "normal," whatever that is and whenever that is. The smart money, however, is on that not being now, at least not for most schools this upcoming cycle. At least one adcom in a position to know has said as much, publicly on SDN. Until proven otherwise, that's good enough for me.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

I checked MSAR a week ago and most schools (>90%) in T55 have confirmed nothing about the 21-22 cycle. UChicago, UMichigan, and OSU are the only ones that have confirmed that everything will be virtual this upcoming cycle, from what I noted.

Most schools are in wait and watch mode and, given the positive trajectory of the pandemic, I think if these schools are willing to host in-person classes for their undergrads, then they should feel comfortable hosting interviews for vaccinated people.

As for cost, the vast majority of applicants have either 0, 1, or 2 interviews, so I don't think that's way too much spending on an applicant's part.

It is not much of a “vast” majority.

only 36% of matriculants get two or fewer interviews. Likely around half of those that don’t get in get one or two interviews as well. 64% of matriculants is a third of all applicants getting 3 or more interviews which is not an insignificant amount.

additionally, for some people even one interview can break the bank. Flying west coast to east coast, staying in a hotel, etc. easily costs $1,000 of unnecessary expenditure per interview.

 

[Zuggelder]

It is not much of a “vast” majority.

only 36% of matriculants get two or fewer interviews. Likely around half of those that don’t get in get one or two interviews as well. 64% of matriculants is a third of all applicants getting 3 or more interviews which is not an insignificant amount.

additionally, for some people even one interview can break the bank. Flying west coast to east coast, staying in a hotel, etc. easily costs $1,000 of unnecessary expenditure per interview.

Yes, according to the MSQ report, "the median number of interviews offered and the median number of interviews attended ... was 3 interviews."

The same report you're referring to also mentions that "The median cost reported for attending those interviews was $600." Many med schools also provide student hosts to help offset costs.

KnightDoc himself said that flying out to NYU for an interview, despite them having a single digit post-interview acceptance rate, as potentially worth the investment.

In my opinion, virtual interviews are not able to capture the social mannerisms and body behavior one would be able to detect in an in-person interview. Yes, while they are more convenient, I do not think virtual interviews are as effective as in-person interviews.

 

[Zuggelder]

At least one adcom in a position to know has said as much, publicly on SDN. Until proven otherwise, that's good enough for me.

I know the adcom you're referring to. If s/he has said virtual interviews are all but guaranteed at almost all schools, then why are so many med schools still silent?