What are good stats?

[passacaglia918]

I'm an Asian Cali applicant who applied to a majority of top/mid-level schools, and UCs. I have a 3.90/34 (10 in verbal) but lack volunteering experience. Everything else about my app should be decent.

I understand my stats are little on the low side, and that lack of volunteering hurts me. When should I start worrying about no IIs? I submitted everything pretty early (within 2-3 weeks of first possible submission date).

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[Spector1]

start applying to safety schools

 

[passacaglia918]

start applying to safety schools

Suggestions?

 

[Spector1]

schools with avg 30-32 mcat

 

[deleted407021]

I'm an Asian Cali applicant who applied to a majority of top/mid-level schools, and UCs. I have a 3.90/34 (10 in verbal) but lack volunteering experience. Everything else about my app should be decent.

I understand my stats are little on the low side, and that lack of volunteering hurts me. When should I start worrying about no IIs? I submitted everything pretty early (within 2-3 weeks of first possible submission date).

Start a thread here to get more in depth advice. Without volunteering, you hurt your chances substantially. And your stats aren't on the "low side" Jesus

 

[starlite911]

When you say you lack volunteer experience, do you mean you have never volunteered anywhere?
Do you at least have clinical experience through other means?

 

[NickNaylor]

Clinical experience and volunteer experience aren't necessarily the same thing.

You actually have decent numbers, so I don't think that will be the thing that holds you back, if anything. It's still way too premature to be worried about gearing up for reapplication, though. IIs at most schools have been going out for, what, a couple of weeks at most?

Slow your roll and be patient.

 

[thebigdawg]

Time to start looking at carribean schools

 

[Wiesal]

Time to start looking at carribean schools

That's a death sentence.

 

[studentdocftw]

Troll? Since when was a 3.9 and 34 on the "low side"...haha

 

[Doug Underhill]

So, you applied without one of the most important components of the application, and you're asking us about stats. This is like going to an interview without pants and wondering whether your shirt was sufficiently ironed.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Your lack of volunteering is a MUCH bigger issue than your stats where your gpa is right at the median of top 20 schools(nonetheless 0.2 above the md matriculannt average gpa) and your mcat is within the 2 points of the median at many top 20 schools(and several points higher than the average md matriculant)

 

[passacaglia918]

Moved to chance me thread with more details. Link here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/asian-male-ca-applicant.1154341/#post-16775945

 

[md-2020]

Moved to chance me thread with more details.

Making another thread in WAMC =/= moving a thread. Only mods can do that.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Troll? Since when was a 3.9 and 34 on the "low side"...haha

He probably means for top schools, where it would be on the low side

 

[NotASerialKiller]

So, you applied without one of the most important components of the application, and you're asking us about stats. This is like going to an interview without pants and wondering whether your shirt was sufficiently ironed.

Can't even count the number of times I've done this.

 

[Goro]

If you indeed have a lack of volunteering, that will be a death sentence for your app.

What are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanism side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

Here's another way of looking at it: would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit or dress without trying it on??

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen.

I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, Ronald McDonald House, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities.


And work on the self-esteem. Your stats are NOT "low". The median GPA for MD matriculants is 3.7 and MCAT is 31. While I'd rule out Harvard, U Penn, Wash U and their ilk, Pitt, Northwestern, Case, Baylor, JHC, Keck etc are in striking distance.

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

I'm an Asian Cali applicant who applied to a majority of top/mid-level schools, and UCs. I have a 3.90/34 (10 in verbal) but lack volunteering experience. Everything else about my app should be decent.

I understand my stats are little on the low side, and that lack of volunteering hurts me. When should I start worrying about no IIs? I submitted everything pretty early (within 2-3 weeks of first possible submission date).

 

[Dr. Stalker]

528 and 4.0 are pretty shaky, I'd def add a few Caribbean schools with these stats fyi

 

[passacaglia918]

Lol chill Goro. I agree with a majority of your points though. The reason why I applied this cycle is because I've done quite a bit of shadowing and research to know that I for sure want to go into medicine, so why wait another year to get started? Please don't start some aimless discussion to dispute...

At this point, I've already applied. I've started to do some hospital volunteering. Is it worth an update on my hours in January if I still haven't received IIs? The reason why I don't have that much volunteering experience is I didn't make it a point to do so, because I was busy with other ECs/activities/work during my first 3 years of undergrad.

 

[deleted407021]

Lol chill Goro. I agree with a majority of your points though. The reason why I applied this cycle is because I've done quite a bit of shadowing and research to know that I for sure want to go into medicine, so why wait another year to get started? Please don't start some aimless discussion to dispute...

At this point, I've already applied. I've started to do some hospital volunteering. Is it worth an update on my hours in January if I still haven't received IIs? The reason why I don't have that much volunteering experience is I didn't make it a point to do so, because I was busy with other ECs/activities/work during my first 3 years of undergrad.

Goro is an admissions officer and professor at a medical school. I'd encourage you to take his advice with grace. Like he said, without volunteering, you haven't demonstrated that you can fill the humanistic role of the doctors these schools are working to create. Although shadowing is very important for knowing if you can see yourself as a physician, "quite a bit of shadowing and research" is not adequate evidence for your humanism and ability to work with the sick and injured.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Lol chill Goro. I agree with a majority of your points though. The reason why I applied this cycle is because I've done quite a bit of shadowing and research to know that I for sure want to go into medicine, so why wait another year to get started? Please don't start some aimless discussion to dispute...

At this point, I've already applied. I've started to do some hospital volunteering. Is it worth an update on my hours in January if I still haven't received IIs? The reason why I don't have that much volunteering experience is I didn't make it a point to do so, because I was busy with other ECs/activities/work during my first 3 years of undergrad.

That was a poor decision

 

[md-2020]

Lol chill Goro. I agree with a majority of your points though. The reason why I applied this cycle is because I've done quite a bit of shadowing and research to know that I for sure want to go into medicine, so why wait another year to get started? Please don't start some aimless discussion to dispute...

At this point, I've already applied. I've started to do some hospital volunteering. Is it worth an update on my hours in January if I still haven't received IIs? The reason why I don't have that much volunteering experience is I didn't make it a point to do so, because I was busy with other ECs/activities/work during my first 3 years of undergrad.

Goro, one of the main adcoms on this forum, has made a great suggestion, one which you are brushing aside with excuses.

I'd reconsider his posts if I were you. If your list is comprised of UCs + upper tier schools, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you needed a reapp.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Lol chill Goro. I agree with a majority of your points though. The reason why I applied this cycle is because I've done quite a bit of shadowing and research to know that I for sure want to go into medicine, so why wait another year to get started? Please don't start some aimless discussion to dispute...

At this point, I've already applied. I've started to do some hospital volunteering. Is it worth an update on my hours in January if I still haven't received IIs? The reason why I don't have that much volunteering experience is I didn't make it a point to do so, because I was busy with other ECs/activities/work during my first 3 years of undergrad.

This kind of arrogance which was displayed in your response to an actual ADCOM combined with a complete lack of awarness(both in terms of self-awareness and in terms of lack of awarness of the very basic things med schools look for a simple 20 min search on this site could tell you) is exactly how people with 3.8+/33+ end up as re-applicants.

If you want to apply as is this cycle go ahead. Just realize the significance of not having any volunteering on your app rather than just laughing at someone who works in admission telling you lacking it is lethal to an app.

 

[passacaglia918]

Wow, SDN shows an extraordinary amount of deference. Stop picking apart every word I write/berating me and instead, help me. I've acknowledged his great points, but I've already applied. I appreciate Goro's input; it was helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if I needed a reapp either. I'm already doing my best to remedy this weakness by starting to do some hospital volunteering. Yes, I would assume every 4.0 robot also knows that a huge part of medicine is altruism. Is it really mandatory that I kiss his ass on SDN? This isn't investment banking...

 

[md-2020]

Wow, SDN shows an extraordinary amount of deference. Stop picking apart every word I write/berating me and instead, help me. I've acknowledged his great points, but I've already applied. I appreciate Goro's input; it was helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if I needed a reapp either. I'm already doing my best to remedy this weakness by starting to do some hospital volunteering. Yes, I would assume every 4.0 robot also knows that a huge part of medicine is altruism. Is it really mandatory that I kiss his ass on SDN? This isn't investment banking...

No one is telling you to suck up to Goro.

To prep for a reapp, consider research and additional clinical+nonclinical volunteering. For this round, consider adding in OOS safety/undershoot schools this cycle that might be willing to overlook the lack of shadowing/volunteering.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Lol chill Goro. I agree with a majority of your points though. The reason why I applied this cycle is because I've done quite a bit of shadowing and research to know that I for sure want to go into medicine, so why wait another year to get started? Please don't start some aimless discussion to dispute...

At this point, I've already applied. I've started to do some hospital volunteering. Is it worth an update on my hours in January if I still haven't received IIs? The reason why I don't have that much volunteering experience is I didn't make it a point to do so, because I was busy with other ECs/activities/work during my first 3 years of undergrad.

Now I'm not of the mentality that you should just blindly respect those older/more accomplished than you, but Goro is not only a member of adcom at his particular school, but tirelessly posts and messages students on here to help them out. Watch your mouth "lol chill Goro" is definitely not a cool way to talk to him.

 

[mw18]

Basically, it's too early to be worried but you should be worried because volunteering is a huge component of one's app.

As it stands, you have already applied so you should make every effort to get serious hours in volunteering and update schools that are receptive to updates. I mean you should treat it like its a full-time job and you should also make commitments to places for the next year. That way you won't look completely terrible like you're just trying to make up for a lack of volunteering. Even though you are. No bad reason to volunteer though. People are still being helped. Maybe this way, if you get a February interview you can emphasize your volunteering because you will have been doing it. I would also apply to schools where your stats are higher than the medians, and mention your volunteering in the secondaries.

Also, you really should be more respectful to anyone who takes time out of their day to help you. Particularly when they're anonymous on a forum and get no credit personally for doing so. @Goro is constantly helping people on this forum, particularly MD applicants even though he has no particular incentive to do so since he works as a DO adcom. If his words were harsh, then the truth is harsh. You don't have to kiss anyone's ass here, but he almost singlehandedly represents the WAMC responses (all due respect to @gyngyn, @Banco, and @WedgeDawg) so being disrespectful to him while you have your hand out for help doesn't make much sense.

 

[Banco]

I think if your list is majority top schools + UCs, you will have a rough time this cycle.

To remedy this, add 5-10 private low tier schools: Arizona (both), NYMC, Albany, EVMS, VCU, Temple, Jeff, SLU, Vermont, Creighton, MCW, Miami, Rush, Loyola

You can still salvage your list and make it more strategic. I like to play devil's advocate when it comes to non-clinical volunteering; on MSAR most schools have 50-70% of matrics with non-clinical volunteering, so it doesn't seem to be absolutely necessary. It's good that you are doing clinical volunteering, though.

But again, I think your main undoing will be having a list that is too top heavy for you. Fix that.

 

[tea guzzling traveler]

Basically you have two options that I can see:
1) Do nothing, proceed as planned, hopefully get an II and acceptance and forget that this conversation ever happened. However, as many have addressed, the lack of volunteering is a problem, one that could potentially hinder the first part of 1.
2) What you can do now is volunteer extensively, and broaden your app as @Banco suggested. Reapp is possible, so better to prepare for that and not be left in a similar position next cycle. BTW your numbers are fine.

And on @Goro , I think many of us have personally benefited from his advice (I know I have), so we pay deference to what he says. In general, I think people are only trying to help on this forum, and especially as an adcom, it does pay to listen to what he has to say. I think the original post he made was addressing what might go through his mind when he evaluated an app that didn't have any volunteering, and since the rest of us non-adcoms can only guess what goes through their heads, we consider that insight to be extremely valuable.

 

[Goro]

I'm not posting on these pages to get likes or my ass kissed, but because I like helping people get into med school.

You now have not one, but four serious deficits as an applicant.

1) You lack required experience.
2) You're going to try to squeeze in that experience in the last six -nine months of the app cycle.
3) You applied top heavy while deficient in #1. They don't want mere lab-bots, they want it all...leaders who are exceptional in everything. Just a small example, some of my "advisees' who got into Columbia, UCSF or Harvard had literally hundreds of hrs in clinical volunteering or experience. Some had > 1000.
4) "The reason why I don't have that much volunteering experience is I didn't make it a point to do so, because I was busy with other ECs/activities/work during my first 3 years of undergrad."
This attitude by itself can lethal. 'nuff said.


You are correct in thinking that you'll need a gap year, and working toward that end.

Wow, SDN shows an extraordinary amount of deference. Stop picking apart every word I write/berating me and instead, help me. I've acknowledged his great points, but I've already applied. I appreciate Goro's input; it was helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if I needed a reapp either. I'm already doing my best to remedy this weakness by starting to do some hospital volunteering. Yes, I would assume every 4.0 robot also knows that a huge part of medicine is altruism. Is it really mandatory that I kiss his ass on SDN? This isn't investment banking...

 

[passacaglia918]

Alright, I will take a gap year and boost up my experiences and attitude before re-applying. Thanks for your help!