What are my chances?

[Mr.Happy]

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I don't want to crosspost so I will post the link to my WAMC thread where I posted my stats and situation:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/your-responses-are-appreciated.1075716/#post-15297511

I'm looking at Caribbean/International schools as a back up. Maybe Skip can help me out here. I would probably be a "3" according to Skip's medical applicant category. I do have strong ECs (I founded and led my own community based organization promoting HIV prevention in Africa, very strong LORs, numerous leadership roles, consistent demonstrated interest in promoting HIV prevention throughout and after undergrad, 2000+ hours of clinical research at the Johns Hopkins Hospital).

what are my chances with the international schools? Of course I prefer US MD over US DO over IMG status but I have to face the reality that I have a low MCAT score and a low grad school GPA. I also don't have a DO letter and it's too late to get one now for many reasons. However there are DO schools who don't require a DO letter.

Will I have a shot at the Big4? Do you think I can make it off the rock, like Skip did?

 

[Mr.Happy]

my schools:

International schools (working on apps now):

Windsor (definitely a reach based on my stats, so I've been told)
St James
St. Martinus
St. Aureus
AUC
Saba
University of Queensland Ochsner

 

[edgerock24]

my schools:

International schools (working on apps now):

Windsor (definitely a reach based on my stats, so I've been told)
St James
St. Martinus
St. Aureus
AUC
Saba
University of Queensland Ochsner

The bolded schools here are absolutely pieces of trash ones. Nobody should waste their time applying to or attending them.

 

[Mr.Happy]

The bolded schools here are absolutely pieces of trash ones. Nobody should waste their time applying to or attending them.

Thank you. I've heard from others that those schools are bad, except for Windsor. The people I've talked to told me that Windsor is the Harvard of the Caribbean? That it's a hidden gem which gets a lot of bad press from Windsor drop outs who were too lazy to do the work? One point which they said makes sense, they said you can tell how good a school is by its need to advertise. Schools like Windsor and Harvard don't need to advertise to receive a ton of apps but schools like SGU and Ross have to advertise everywhere. That being said, I'm sure Windsor is nowhere near as good as Harvard but is it the Harvard of the Caribbean?

 

[Top Gun]

Thank you. I've heard from others that those schools are bad, except for Windsor. The people I've talked to told me that Windsor is the Harvard of the Caribbean? That it's a hidden gem which gets a lot of bad press from Windsor drop outs who were too lazy to do the work? One point which they said makes sense, they said you can tell how good a school is by its need to advertise. Schools like Windsor and Harvard don't need to advertise to receive a ton of apps but schools like SGU and Ross have to advertise everywhere. That being said, I'm sure Windsor is nowhere near as good as Harvard but is it the Harvard of the Caribbean?

No, it's far from the Harvard of the Caribbean. From what I've heard, their rotations are $hit. If there was a "Harvard Med of the Caribbean," that title would more likely go to SGU. Then again, I'm biased since I went there.

 

[Del Caribe]

Thank you. I've heard from others that those schools are bad, except for Windsor. The people I've talked to told me that Windsor is the Harvard of the Caribbean? That it's a hidden gem which gets a lot of bad press from Windsor drop outs who were too lazy to do the work? One point which they said makes sense, they said you can tell how good a school is by its need to advertise. Schools like Windsor and Harvard don't need to advertise to receive a ton of apps but schools like SGU and Ross have to advertise everywhere. That being said, I'm sure Windsor is nowhere near as good as Harvard but is it the Harvard of the Caribbean?

I don't think it's a good idea to assume that the amount of advertisements inversely correlates to the quality of the school. The only thing that the amount of advertisements correlates to is the amount of money the school decides to put into marketing. There are certainly good schools that do lots of marketing, as well as bad schools that do not do any marketing for whatever reason or another.

I'm not sure who told you Windsor is the Harvard of the Caribbean, but it's really important when researching schools to think critically and separate opinion from objective facts. Opinions, both good and bad, can be misleading in terms of telling you about the educational standards and opportunities you will get from attending a school. While there are no official rankings of Caribbean medical schools, there are definitely ways to compare medical schools in the Caribbean according to their levels of accreditation, approval, and recognition in the United States, and success of graduates. Looking at these aspects there are many schools in the Caribbean that are much better choices than Windsor.

Unlike AUC, SGU, Ross, or Saba ("The Big 4"), graduates from Windsor are not able to get licensed in all fifty states. Windsor does not have California Medical Board approval, which is required for licensing in not just California but also several other states that follow California like Alaska, Colorado, New Mexico, Indiana, Tennessee, etc. Windsor also is not approved by the New York state medical board, and therefore students cannot rotate more than 12 weeks there and also cannot do residency there, which can limit your match opportunities, since New York has one of the highest number of residencies and is also one of the most IMG-friendly states. While Windsor is accredited by the St. Kitts and Nevis Accreditation Board, its accreditation standards is not considered by the NCFMEA to be on par with US standards. In contrast, the Big 4 are reviewed and recognized by the NCFMEA to be on par with US medical schools, New York approved, California approved, and have the educational and administrative standards to be eligible to offer its students US federal financial aid, just like at US medical schools. The match list for AUC, Ross, Saba, and SGU are also much more impressive than that of Windsor, which shows only a minority of their students having confirmed matches.

In your list of applied schools, St. Martinus University and Aureus University are not even accredited by any accrediting body. Having a government charter and being in the IMED or WHO directory is not the same as being accredited, despite what their school websites may suggest.

If not a US medical school, your next best choices are AUC, Ross, Saba, and SGU, as these four schools have NCFMEA-recognized accreditation, California approval, New York approval, US federal student loans, ability to get licensed in all 50 states, high USMLE Step pass rate, and high match rates. The next best choice after these is AUA, which also has NCFMEA-recognized accreditation, California approval, New York approval, high USMLE pass rate, and high match rates, but no US federal student loans nor the ability to practice in all 50 states, though this will change in 2019 when AUA graduates becomes eligible for Kansas licensure. The next best choice after AUA is MUA, which has NCFMEA-recognized accreditation and New York approval but no Cali approval, federal student loans, nor ability to practice in all 50 states. I highly recommend you to look into these schools before even considering Windsor, Aureus, or St. Martinus on your list.

Best of luck on the med school research and applications.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@Mr.Happy... Stay away from Windsor--far away!

 

[Skip Intro]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...medicine-produces-profits-few-doctors/1069719

And read everything Del Caribe said. He (or she) is right on the money. And, if you are under the age of 26, I would seriously consider working on your application and reapplying U.S. There are a lot of spots that are going to open in the next couple of years.

-Skip

 

[Mr.Happy]

Thank you all for your responses. Del Caribe, I agree with your reasoning. I was merely conveying the reasoning of the people who were talking to me about Windsor but it's their reasoning that's flawed.

Although we went on a little side-track here about Windsor, the main question is yet to be answered. Am I competitive enough based on my stats and ECs, to be accepted to a US MD/DO program? I am applying early and broadly and smartly.

Also, considering my low grad GPA and low MCAT score, am I competitive enough to be accepted (direct admission, not Ross MERP or SGU Foundations) to any of the Big 4?

Final question, if I do end up attending one of the Big 4 due to sheer necessity, do you think I will be successful based on my stats in those schools and not ending up up dropping out/decelling/failing Steps? Especially considering that I will have score even higher (230+) on my Steps because I'm IMG? Will I be able to successfully make it through the lizard trail and off the rock, like Skip did?

 

[bedevilled ben]

Thank you all for your responses. Del Caribe, I agree with your reasoning. I was merely conveying the reasoning of the people who were talking to me about Windsor but it's their reasoning that's flawed.

Although we went on a little side-track here about Windsor, the main question is yet to be answered. Am I competitive enough based on my stats and ECs, to be accepted to a US MD/DO program? I am applying early and broadly and smartly.

Also, considering my low grad GPA and low MCAT score, am I competitive enough to be accepted (direct admission, not Ross MERP or SGU Foundations) to any of the Big 4?

Final question, if I do end up attending one of the Big 4 due to sheer necessity, do you think I will be successful based on my stats in those schools and not ending up up dropping out/decelling/failing Steps? Especially considering that I will have score even higher (230+) on my Steps because I'm IMG? Will I be able to successfully make it through the lizard trail and off the rock, like Skip did?

I had a higher MCAT and a slightly lower cGPA than you, but other than that we look very similar application-wise. I had excellent letters, international volunteer work, published research, a non-traditional background, etc. I'm also not a URM. I made really stupid decisions while applying to US schools and wasted 2 cycles of applications before ending up going the Caribbean route. I think if I had applied a little more intelligently I could have weaseled my way into a USMD program. I wasn't interested in pursuing a DO program.

I think if you interview well and apply broadly, you are a shoe-in for a DO program and any of the Big 4 Caribbean schools. If you are <30 years old, have taken the MCAT <3 times, or haven't applied 2 or more cycles, you should reconsider DO and Carib MD and focus on getting into a US school. With even a modest 2-3 point gain in your MCAT score, you could have a solid chance at a US MD program, especially if you apply broadly (and intelligently) and especially pursue newer MD programs with contingent accreditation in the next 4 years. Without pumping up your MCAT score, or knowing somebody on the admissions board, I would be surprised if you were accepted into a US MD program.

There is no predictive power when it comes to a Caribbean school. For every iteration of person you can think of, there are examples there of people that make it through the program and those that don't. I know a couple Ivy League-ers that have failed out, and a former military mechanic that is an honors student. We have 50 year olds and 20 year old struggling side by side. It really just comes down to how badly you want it and if you're willing to slog through the mile of crap to get there.

 

[Mr.Happy]

I had a higher MCAT and a slightly lower cGPA than you, but other than that we look very similar application-wise. I had excellent letters, international volunteer work, published research, a non-traditional background, etc. I'm also not a URM. I made really stupid decisions while applying to US schools and wasted 2 cycles of applications before ending up going the Caribbean route. I think if I had applied a little more intelligently I could have weaseled my way into a USMD program. I wasn't interested in pursuing a DO program.

I think if you interview well and apply broadly, you are a shoe-in for a DO program and any of the Big 4 Caribbean schools. If you are <30 years old, have taken the MCAT <3 times, or haven't applied 2 or more cycles, you should reconsider DO and Carib MD and focus on getting into a US school. With even a modest 2-3 point gain in your MCAT score, you could have a solid chance at a US MD program, especially if you apply broadly (and intelligently) and especially pursue newer MD programs with contingent accreditation in the next 4 years.

Thank you. I have signed up for an August 27 MCAT re-take. I know the scores will come back late in the cycle (late September) but I did indicate in my AMCAS that I'm taking it on August 27 so hopefully schools will wait to decide?

 

[bedevilled ben]

Thank you. I have signed up for an August 27 MCAT re-take. I know the scores will come back late in the cycle (late September) but I did indicate in my AMCAS that I'm taking it on August 27 so hopefully schools will wait to decide?

The first round of interview season usually begins in mid September, so you shouldn't be more than a few weeks behind. Interviews are usually extended until January or February, so you should have plenty of time if you really nail your MCAT. Study your ever-living ass off, treat this as the most important exam in your life. Get a review book. Do practice questions until your eyes bleed. Buy the practice tests and take them every 2 weeks until you're consistently scoring 30+. A US MD program will save you so much time, energy, stress, and money down the line.

 

[Mr.Happy]

The first round of interview season usually begins in mid September, so you shouldn't be more than a few weeks behind. Interviews are usually extended until January or February, so you should have plenty of time if you really nail your MCAT. Study your ever-living ass off, treat this as the most important exam in your life. Get a review book. Do practice questions until your eyes bleed. Buy the practice tests and take them every 2 weeks until you're consistently scoring 30+. A US MD program will save you so much time, energy, stress, and money down the line.

Thank you for the excellent advice!! I will surely follow it!