What are some arguments against community service class?

[shroomysoup]

For you pharmacy students (anyone else can contribute too), what are some arguments for NOT having community service as a class in pharmacy school? In this class, you go to sites to help underprivelaged people and listen to lectures in class.

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[PharmDstudent]

For you pharmacy students (anyone else can contribute too), what are some arguments for NOT having community service as a class in pharmacy school? In this class, you go to sites to help underprivelaged people and listen to lectures in class.

We pay lots of money to attend pharmacy school. I'm at $50,000 in debt right now. Therefore, I think the "overprivileged" people should serve me lunch everyday. I'm having a hard enough time trying to work at my part-time job with this new IPPE stuff. I can't work Fridays anymore, so that's technically lost income at about $70/week.

So.... I'm accepting donations for the PharmDstudent Is Broke fund.

 

[eelo]

For you pharmacy students (anyone else can contribute too), what are some arguments for NOT having community service as a class in pharmacy school? In this class, you go to sites to help underprivelaged people and listen to lectures in class.

When it's a requirement, that kind of defeats the purpose of "service," doesn't it? The idea behind service is that the goal should be altruistic, for the betterment of society. But if it's a requirement, then the goal is for the student to check a box.

This is easily countered by: I don't think the people being helped are too worried about the motivation for the service. Also, some people really have no idea where to begin, and it's truly difficult to start a program of your own; it's hard to ensure that your program will actually serve the purpose you've designed for it. That's why it's easier to go with pre-established organizations like Habitat, or the SPCA/Humane Society, or Doctors Without Borders, or Catholic Charities, or anything that's already done the groundwork for starting up a community service program.

I think a lot depends on the school itself- many schools at all levels have a community service requirement. If it's in the school's charter, there isn't much you can do about that; it's something students should have considered before accepting admission to that school.

 

[Old Timer]

All schools are doing it now. It is a requirement or your school cannot remain accredited. Sorry, it sucks to be you guys as this is not fair at all....

 

[PharmDstudent]

All schools are doing it now. It is a requirement or your school cannot remain accredited. Sorry, it sucks to be you guys as this is not fair at all....

I agree.

Why can't I get credit for the 20-25 hours per week that I already work? My boss is a preceptor.

 

[Quiksilver]

working for free sucks, especially when you have a job that you get paid for for doing the same stuff.

Damn if i was only smart enough to get in after 2 years.

 

[KARM12]

Pharmacy is a service oriented profession... With that, we only have to do 4 hrs of required health-related service for graduation.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Pharmacy is a service oriented profession... With that, we only have to do 4 hrs of required health-related service for graduation.

What are you referring to exactly???

I would call forth year rotations health-related service. We're required to do ten 4-week rotations. That's 1600 hours in addition to the 80hrs/semester of IPPE for two years. So it will take a total of 1920 hours of "free labor" to graduate.

 

[KARM12]

What are you referring to exactly???

I would call forth year rotations health-related service. We're required to do ten 4-week rotations. That's 1600 hours in addition to the 80hrs/semester of IPPE for two years. So it will take a total of 1920 hours of "free labor" to graduate.

We have rotations, plus a community service requirement.

 

[twester]

I go to a school where IPPE has been entrenched for years (I think it started at Colorado, in fact). There are a few students who have actually been held back for not passing Experiential Practice.

If you guys don't have a writing component and just have to show up at a site, you've got it easy. Way easy. You could be at CU where we have to write competency statements that show what we did right at the site, what we did wrong and how we improved. If the writing preceptor doesn't like something (and they are required to not like things) we get to write them over again. Add that to 20 credit hours of coursework and you have some angry pharmacy students on your hands.

Personally, I think IPPE is taking pharmacy education in a misleading direction. Students (at my school) are being taught how to BS just to keep the writing preceptor off their backs. The pharmacists precepting the students at the sites just roll their eyes at the activities (so there's little support in the community). Most activities don't relate to real pharmacy practice and are two short in duration and irregular in frequency to actually confer any "experience".

It sucks. But it's not going away. Just jump through the hoops and get the degree.

 

[pharmacogenomic]

What are you referring to exactly???

I would call forth year rotations health-related service. We're required to do ten 4-week rotations. That's 1600 hours in addition to the 80hrs/semester of IPPE for two years. So it will take a total of 1920 hours of "free labor" to graduate.

I'm unclear on what you're saying. Do you think your rotations provide you no education at all? Are you only being utilized for free labor, which would only be of a tech nature in that case rather than a pharmacist experience.

What school actually does that?

 

[pharmacogenomic]

For you pharmacy students (anyone else can contribute too), what are some arguments for NOT having community service as a class in pharmacy school? In this class, you go to sites to help underprivelaged people and listen to lectures in class.

This is a curious question to ask, IMO. Why would it even occur to you to ask what are some reasons not to have an experiential course?

The closest I could come up with was being so completely out of step with the population, there is no way you could either gain something or give something. In my own experience, one of the choices of a similar course requirement was to go to the Haight Ashbury Free Medical Clinic. I chose not to go there & to go to another site. I only chose not to go there because I stood out in all ways one could be as not being part of that community, altho I understood & was empathetic, sympathetic, etc. My advisor agreed & I chose another setting in which my personal self was not as much of an impact on the learning experience.

Independent of school, I would not have been able to access any of these experiential settings on my own, altho I have been able to initiate some after the education I received doing them.

Are you given a choice of settings? If so, one should fit your personal set of desires/needs to be productive for your educational development.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I'm unclear on what you're saying. Do you think your rotations provide you no education at all? Are you only being utilized for free labor, which would only be of a tech nature in that case rather than a pharmacist experience.

What school actually does that?

I'm really referring to inpatient and retail rotations. It's free labor if you already know how to do the job. Clinical rotations are a little different.

What have I done at my IPPE so far... I've checked for expired meds, prepacked Albuterol, helped with IV boluses, watched the tech type up the orders, fill the orders, and I read pharmacy magazines. Since it's a closed pharmacy, there really isn't anything else for me to do or learn that I haven't already done before. So technically, I'm their free labor because they don't have to train me. They can just direct me. Thankfully, the atmosphere is fairly casual, so they don't force anything that's unreasonable.

 

[pharmacogenomic]

I'm really referring to inpatient and retail rotations. It's free labor if you already know how to do the job. Clinical rotations are a little different.

What have I done at my IPPE so far... I've checked for expired meds, prepacked Albuterol, helped with IV boluses, watched the tech type up the orders, fill the orders, and I read pharmacy magazines. Since it's a closed pharmacy, there really isn't anything else for me to do or learn that I haven't already done before. So technically, I'm their free labor because they don't have to train me. They can just direct me. Thankfully, the atmosphere is fairly casual, so they don't force anything that's unreasonable.

You have a crappy rotation then! Your rotation should be educational,, not free labor.

There is a whole lot more to learn than what you are doing & I'm guessing you really don't know how much there is to know. Thats a huge assumption on your part, particularly if you think a closed door pharmacists only jobs are to prepack albuterol, do IV bolues, observe techs, etc.

 

[PharmDstudent]

You have a crappy rotation then! Your rotation should be educational,, not free labor.

There is a whole lot more to learn than what you are doing & I'm guessing you really don't know how much there is to know. Thats a huge assumption on your part, particularly if you think a closed door pharmacists only jobs are to prepack albuterol, do IV bolues, observe techs, etc.

The rotations in this area were badly affected by Hurricane Katrina. My university was trying to implement early practice in 2005, but the storm hit.
There are other rotations that have better access to education, but they are usually reserved for the P4 students.
The IPPE rotations for P2 and P3 students are either community or institutional practice.

That's just how that pharmacy works. It's basically retail plus IV. They do meds for psych, nursing home, and hospice patients. They have a contract with one insurance company, so it really is just fill and deliver. They don't do therapy or disease state management.

 

[futuredruggist]

?

 

[pharmacogenomic]

The rotations in this area were badly affected by Hurricane Katrina. My university was trying to implement early practice in 2005, but the storm hit.
There are other rotations that have better access to education, but they are usually reserved for the P4 students.
The IPPE rotations for P2 and P3 students are either community or institutional practice.

That's just how that pharmacy works. It's basically retail plus IV. They do meds for psych, nursing home, and hospice patients. They have a contract with one insurance company, so it really is just fill and deliver. They don't do therapy or disease state management.

Well....have you ever thought of taking the initiative & proposing, planning & implementing a therapy or disease state management program for this site? Or.....what about brown bag lunches to talk about Plan D enrollment (this month as a matter of fact - do you know the details?). Or, you could do focus sessions on drug related issues - insomnia related to psych drugs, OTC products useful in diabetics & what to avoid. There are lots of possibilities.

After all - you get what falls in your lap - could be a good apple or a rotten one.

But, if you take the initiative & reach for the apple - you may find a good one.

If nothing else, the experience will make you a better pharmacist.

But - its easier to just do what you're doing - is that what you want - easy?

Just because its not expected of you doesn't mean you can't expect it of yourself. This is what we've been talking about on another thread - sometimes, you have to work harder to find opportunities to expand yourself professionally if your school doesn't provide it for you!