What are some behaviors that would label you as "unprofessional" in medical school

[zaztong]

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Just curious. Want to avoid getting "concern notes".

 

[Frazier]

Killing people you meet over craigslist.
Burning down the med school.
Showing up to clinic everyday naked.
Drinking EtOH during PBL (out of the bottle).
Smoking a cigarette on the wards, while you present all your COPD pts on O2.
Giving the Dean an STD.

...all things that you would risk being labeled "unprofessional" over.

 

[tymont12]

Anything that a particular faculty member deems unprofessional.

It really is that vague.

 

[zaztong]

Killing people you meet over craigslist.
Burning down the med school.
Showing up to clinic everyday naked.
Drinking EtOH during PBL (out of the bottle).
Smoking a cigarette on the wards, while you present all your COPD pts on O2.
Giving the Dean an STD.

...all things that you would risk being labeled "unprofessional" over.

Has anyone actually done that in your PBL session? Or did they hide in unmarked bottles?

 

[Goro]

Copping an attitude with your Faculty
Continually late for required classes
Failing to hand in required paperwork on time
Not getting up to date on immunizations, despite warnings
Being late for rounds
Forgery
Cheating
Theft
Assault

Just curious. Want to avoid getting "concern notes".

 

[tennischamp822]

Anything that a particular faculty member deems unprofessional.

It really is that vague.

This.

And once you are branded "unprofessional", the school will put you on probation where pretty much anything can get you kicked out. It is a total joke of a system designed to keep you as subservient as possible.

 

[Doctor-S]

Agree with @tymont12 (because it can be vague and based on one individual's opinion) and with @Goro's list, too.

Lying, stealing, falsifying records/data, plagiary, chronic lateness, rude/arrogant behavior toward faculty, attendings, patients and staff; must be repeatedly reminded to complete work, commitments, tasks, duties or other medical student responsibilities; disruptive/abusive/explosive behaviors, etc. You get the idea.

 

[tymont12]

There's apparently been studies showing a correlation between early unprofessional behavior in medical school and future medical license revocations (sexual misconduct with patients, etc.). If anything, this professionalism 'competency' will only get pushed harder in the future.

I will say though, there are students in my class who are passing on paper, but the administration is trying to implement 'holistic' road blocks such as professionalism, timeliness and patient rapport scores in order to keep people who are unbecoming of being a physician from graduating. However, I think it's more to protect their match rate than to not pump out unfit candidates.

Follow @Doctor-S's list and you most likely be fine. In other words, be a normal, respectful individual. Also, don't talk **** about faculty around other faculty.

 

[Azete]

Copping an attitude with your Faculty
Continually late for required classes
Failing to hand in required paperwork on time
Not getting up to date on immunizations, despite warnings
Being late for rounds
Forgery
Cheating
Theft
Assault

Guilty. I'm several months late on my flu shot every year, and I'm sure some administrative folks hate me for it.

 

[Psai]

Hitting on a classmate, jumping out of a taxi to avoid the fare, giving patient summaries where you didn't see the patient and then matching derm.

 

[Mad Jack]

Killing people you meet over craigslist.
Burning down the med school.
Showing up to clinic everyday naked.
Drinking EtOH during PBL (out of the bottle).
Smoking a cigarette on the wards, while you present all your COPD pts on O2.
Giving the Dean an STD.

...all things that you would risk being labeled "unprofessional" over.

Funny, our PBL sessions were right next to a cafe that served beer on campus. Had a beer before the last one we'd ever have with my group, was a bretty good time.

 

[Mad Jack]

Not showing up to mandatory activities is a common one.

 

[npappasan]

Does this question REALLY require any responses?

 

[sazerac]

Hitting on a classmate, jumping out of a taxi to avoid the fare, giving patient summaries where you didn't see the patient and then matching derm.

Also: jumping into somebody else's Uber, refusing to leave when asked, trashing the contents of driver's car, kneeing driver in the groin, telling driver "you don't know who you are messing with," stumbling away when police show up.

 

[Psai]

Also: jumping into somebody else's Uber, refusing to leave when asked, trashing the contents of driver's car, kneeing driver in the groin, telling driver "you don't know who you are messing with," stumbling away when police show up.

Nah that's for residency

 

[Slack3r]

Despite all the conspiracy theories, professionalism is important. Most of the people in my class who had "professionalism issues" were all around ****-heads. The administration isn't out to get you, you're just likely a tool.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

Also: jumping into somebody else's Uber, refusing to leave when asked, trashing the contents of driver's car, kneeing driver in the groin, telling driver "you don't know who you are messing with," stumbling away when police show up.

What ever happened to her?

 

[michaelrack]

noisily opening up a newspaper to read during lecture (this was in the era before smart phones, and when the internet was primarily USENET groups, in the dark ages)

 

[hamstergang]

It is a total joke of a system designed to keep you as subservient as possible.

When I was a chief resident, I quickly learned that residents with professionalism issues were much more trouble than residents with knowledge deficits. You can always teach knowledge and easily identify plans to improve that. But professionalism 'violations' mess with the flow of the whole system and make it difficult to provide good patient care.

I'm sure some professionalism things really are stupid, but as a whole they actually do matter.

 

[PhillyMed777]

Not submitting your course evals on time with phrases like "great class" because you are required to type something in the answer field for it to submit

 

[Goro]

My clinical colleagues in particular take professionalism very seriously.

When I was a chief resident, I quickly learned that residents with professionalism issues were much more trouble than residents with knowledge deficits. You can always teach knowledge and easily identify plans to improve that. But professionalism 'violations' mess with the flow of the whole system and make it difficult to provide good patient care.

I'm sure some professionalism things really are stupid, but as a whole they actually do matter.

 

[ssttrrbbk]

Just curious. Want to avoid getting "concern notes".

off the top of my head - I feel like mostly we learned these things in kindergarten

Anything illegal
Anything that could be considered sexual misconduct
dating patients
Lying
Posting inappropriate things online
Saying inappropriate things in person
Not showing up as expected or doing duties

Things that came up in my medical school that I know about:
Saying inappropriate things to patients.
Saying racial or anti gay slurs in front of important people
Being creepy with interviewees who he hosted through the student host system.

Things that I had come up with med students when I was a resident :
Calling in sick when hung over
Taking photos of patients and putting on facebook

Things that happened at my friends residency.
repeatedly calling in sick on weekends
Punching a girl at a bar in front of an attending and knocking her out.

 

[ProfMD]

Funny, our PBL sessions were right next to a cafe that served beer on campus. Had a beer before the last one we'd ever have with my group, was a bretty good time.

One of my PBL leaders was an M4 and we had a PBL session at the bar. He bought pitchers of beer for the group.

 

[MediCane2006]

noisily opening up a newspaper to read during lecture (this was in the era before smart phones, and when the internet was primarily USENET groups, in the dark ages)

Haha I wonder if we went to the same med school or if there was more than one person who did this....

 

[Smurfette]

Definitely most everything listed above.

Things that I have seen people actually get kicked out for, under the "unprofessional" umbrella:

1. Inability to show up repeatedly over multiple rotations.
2. Stealing blank prescriptions for own use (later went to prison on felony forgery charges)
3. Claiming to be fluent/native speaker and among other things, consenting patient for a sterilization procedure when no where near fluent.
4. Forging meal tickets.
5. Lying about requiring special accommodations to gain advantages on exams.

 

[omn]

Copping an attitude with your Faculty
Continually late for required classes
Failing to hand in required paperwork on time
Not getting up to date on immunizations, despite warnings
Being late for rounds
Forgery
Cheating
Theft
Assault

you.. alas.. are very tempting to "Report"

 

[Redpancreas]

What ever happened to her?

She was removed from her residency from what I remember. It probably closed a lot of doors on her but I don't know what happened to her license.

 

[npappasan]

She was removed from her residency from what I remember. It probably closed a lot of doors on her but I don't know what happened to her license.

I don't know that railroading her CAREER AND LIVELIHOOD like that was the most appropriate thing to have done. She will most likely never fully recover from that dismissal. While what she did was personally embarrasing, I'm not sure that firing her was the most compassionate thing. She may have needed an alcohol program more than firing.

 

[Redpancreas]

I don't know that railroading her CAREER AND LIVELIHOOD like that was the most appropriate thing to have done. She will most likely never fully recover from that dismissal. While what she did was personally embarrasing, I'm not sure that firing her was the most compassionate thing. She may have needed an alcohol program more than firing.

I feel bad too, but we all have to come to terms with the fact that with smartphones & social media anything could happen. Life isn't fair. If you feel bad, take it as a lesson to always maintain professionalism in moments you feel even a bit irritated.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[ssttrrbbk]

I feel bad too, but we all have to come to terms with the fact that with smartphones & social media anything could happen. Life isn't fair. If you feel bad, take it as a lesson to always maintain professionalism in moments you feel even a bit irritated.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

What she did was violent and not called for. It does stink that in this day and age these things follow you forever on the internet even if you pay your debt through time or a fine.

There are reputation specialists who cost a ton of money who could help her. They can sink any of that bad stuff to maybe page 2-3 on a google search. The problem is that requires ongoing maintenance. I doubt she's a real pro bono candidate for them either. What she did was actually bad. Some people who are publically shamed on the internet do less. I know one reputation specialist group helped the girl who got fired for taking a silly photo at arlington cemetary which while some may say is poor taste didn't hurt anyone and people wanted to help her.

If she comes on here this may be worth her investment if she has the $$.

 

[npappasan]

That was the wrong thing to do though. She wasn't arrested or any charges filed. There wasn't even a police report filed. Seems like shaky ground for something as definitive as a termination. I would have counseled her and placed her on professional probation with the understanding that any further incidents would potentially result in decisive discipline. I wouldn't have just flushed all of her medical education and 4/5ths of residency training work down the toilet like that. That is destructive, not constructive.

 

[Quizlet04]

Apparently, "being too casual" by using too many exclamation points in an email and starting said email with "Hi".

 

[username456789]

Apparently, "being too casual" by using too many exclamation points in an email and starting said email with "Hi".

To be fair, eventually when does have to grow up, and medical school seems like a good place to have already figured that part out.

Kids today are lulled into a false sense of what is appropriate written communication based on the very lax (or nonexistent) standards online. This doesn't excuse you from knowing how to properly communicate like an adult.

 

[Quizlet04]

To be fair, eventually when does have to grow up, and medical school seems like a good place to have already figured that part out.

Kids today are lulled into a false sense of what is appropriate written communication based on the very lax (or nonexistent) standards online. This doesn't excuse you from knowing how to properly communicate like an adult.

Yes. The young man in question learned his lesson and communicated in a professional way as soon as he was corrected. He still received a low grade on professionalism. What's the point of adapting and changing if you're judged on your first impression only?

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

Yes. The young man in question learned his lesson and communicated in a professional way as soon as he was corrected. He still received a low grade on professionalism. What's the point of adapting and changing if you're judged on your first impression only?

that seems harsh

 

[tennischamp822]

that seems harsh

Yes, but remember that this is the shallow world of academic medicine, where anything is possible

 

[Azete]

Apparently, "being too casual" by using too many exclamation points in an email and starting said email with "Hi".

"Hi" is unprofessional? I went through undergrad, law school, 8 years in corporate finance, undergrad again, and now med school; not one person along the way has told me starting an e-mail with "Hi Mr. X," is unprofessional.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Showing up to clinic everyday naked.

Once in a while is ok

 

[Psai]

"Hi" is unprofessional? I went through undergrad, law school, 8 years in corporate finance, undergrad again, and now med school; not one person along the way has told me starting an e-mail with "Hi Mr. X," is unprofessional.

I used to write Dear whoever to people I thought were important but now I say hi to most people.

 

[npappasan]

"Hi" is unprofessional? I went through undergrad, law school, 8 years in corporate finance, undergrad again, and now med school; not one person along the way has told me starting an e-mail with "Hi Mr. X," is unprofessional.

You are correct. Emails are supposed to be quick and to the point. They are not formal like letters.

 

[aalamruad]

Disrespecting gross anatomy cadavers

 

[sliceofbread136]

To be fair, eventually when does have to grow up, and medical school seems like a good place to have already figured that part out.

Kids today are lulled into a false sense of what is appropriate written communication based on the very lax (or nonexistent) standards online. This doesn't excuse you from knowing how to properly communicate like an adult.

I can imagine the outrage, med student X said hi instead of hello! How unprofessional!

 

[username456789]

I can imagine the outrage, med student X said hi instead of hello! How unprofessional!

Neither is ideal.

 

[NWwildcat2013]

To be fair, eventually when does have to grow up, and medical school seems like a good place to have already figured that part out.

Kids today are lulled into a false sense of what is appropriate written communication based on the very lax (or nonexistent) standards online. This doesn't excuse you from knowing how to properly communicate like an adult.

I think the opposite should also apply. Most of my attending who send emails are curt/blunt to the point of being unprofessional.

 

[tennischamp822]

I think the opposite should also apply. Most of my attending who send emails are curt/blunt to the point of being unprofessional.

This.

One reason I said that the system is designed to keep medical students as subservient as possible is that professionalism doesn't extend both ways.

There was a FM doctor who made a big deal to everyone in the class about how a certain medical student was unprofessional because he came in 1 minute late. That same doctor came in 45 minutes late to a 1 hour long session that he was supposed to teach later that year. It's a total joke that professionalism is a one way street.

 

[neoevolution]

It's definitely one-sided. I think the reason for the differences in opinion regarding professionalism is that it is used disproportionately to target medical students.

Real professionalism standards would hold faculty to a higher standard than it would students since they're meant to be role models. The reason why professionalism is becoming a joke is that school emails threaten that it's unprofessional behavior if we don't complete course evals promptly, yet professors can verbally abuse students who politely ask if an upcoming class is mandatory because our schedules are unclear and they want to save money on their flight home. I don't know of anyone who's actually gotten in trouble over our professionalism policy, but the term has been diluted from actual unethical or illegal behavior to anything that the school doesn't like.

It's incredibly hypocritical to have professionalism exist as this sword hanging over our heads while the administration maintains this absurd double standard.

 

[sliceofbread136]

It's definitely one-sided. I think the reason for the differences in opinion regarding professionalism is that it is used disproportionately to target medical students.

Real professionalism standards would hold faculty to a higher standard than it would students since they're meant to be role models. The reason why professionalism is becoming a joke is that school emails threaten that it's unprofessional behavior if we don't complete course evals promptly, yet professors can verbally abuse students who politely ask if an upcoming class is mandatory because our schedules are unclear and they want to save money on their flight home. I don't know of anyone who's actually gotten in trouble over our professionalism policy, but the term has been diluted from actual unethical or illegal behavior to anything that the school doesn't like.

It's incredibly hypocritical to have professionalism exist as this sword hanging over our heads while the administration maintains this absurd double standard.

Well said. Just remember to be an advocate when you get your own students! Hopefully we can do a better job than our predecessors

 

[Raryn]

I used to write Dear whoever to people I thought were important but now I say hi to most people.

I don't include any greeting at all. My typical email goes like:

Dr. Smith,

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.

Thank you,

Raryn, MD
PGY4 Fellow
Specialty blah
University of Blah

 

[Goro]

I have Faculty colleagues from the University of Blah. Good school.

🙂

I don't include any greeting at all. My typical email goes like:

Dr. Smith,

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.

Thank you,

Raryn, MD
PGY4 Fellow
Specialty blah
University of Blah

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Definitely most everything listed above.

Things that I have seen people actually get kicked out for, under the "unprofessional" umbrella:

1. Inability to show up repeatedly over multiple rotations.
2. Stealing blank prescriptions for own use (later went to prison on felony forgery charges)
3. Claiming to be fluent/native speaker and among other things, consenting patient for a sterilization procedure when no where near fluent.
4. Forging meal tickets.
5. Lying about requiring special accommodations to gain advantages on exams.

What in the world...

How did these people make it into med school in the first place.