What are some of the things people tend to overlook?

[AsianPersuasion]

When a person decides they want to persue a medical degree and become a doctor etc what are the things they tend to overlook and fail to give a thorough thought about?

As I'm starting out on this journey, I try my best to understand and educate myself on alot of the things that goes on in medicine like health care bill, lifestyle, schooling, application process and other major and minor things that are involve.

So to those experience members, what do you think pre med tend to miss when wanting to becocme a doctor? what type of questions should we ask ourselves and points we should know and consider before jumping in?

Thanks

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[2sk0ol4c0ol]

I think for a large amount of the pre-meds I know and an even greater percentage on SDN, seem to not understand that they are human.

It sounds silly at first but sometimes I get the feeling that some pre-meds think they have to have divine gifts in everything related to medicine.

No you don't need a perfect gpa/mcat to get into med school.
No, if you don't get accepted into a top 20 school it doesn't mean that you will not become a good doctor.
No, you will not be the smartest kid in class anymore (guess what that's alright)
No, just because you studied for hours does not mean that you will get honors in all ofyour classes.
No, if you don't save all of your patients life, it doesn't make you a bad doctor.
No, you WILL NOT love every part of your medical education or career as a physician or surgeon.

To many ppl fail to realize that as a human being you have limitations. I you can't accept being human you shouldn't become a doctor.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

^ Those are the things I've learned from being on this site and talking to doctors. And I think that if I am ever faced with a similar situation like that I would respond alot better and have an idea of what to do than jump to conclusion and freak out lol

I spoke with a infecious disease specialist and she told me about the way doctors are compensated etc. I think some of the stereotype that less informed pre med have is that doctors are always gonna make lots of money and always compensated for their care. but she told me about how sometimes insurance company refuse to pay for some of the care and all the steps she has to go through to get the insurance approval for them to pay for a certain care that the patients requires.

So she told me to think about that and how I feel about it.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure what to think. I've never been in that position. But I would imagine its quite stressful and sad how she would have to resort to using some other method of care that may not be up to par with the one she wanted to use, because the insurance refuse to pay. So I think this is going to have a big negative impact on the patient's care.

 

[halethsonofhama]

I decided to become a Doc cause I thought, "whats another 4 years of schooling anyways!?"

Then I found out about the MCAT.... not too big of a deal
Then I found out I had to get a **** load of ECs.... kinda annoying
Then I found out C's get degrees but not acceptances.... man-oh-man!
Then I found out that Med school is ridiculously time intensive.... a little scary
Then I found out about residency.... **** son!
Then I found out about the stresses of the Job.... why did I choose this path again?

In short... I overlooked essentially everything there is to over look. I didn't have any Dr. family or friends and my CC lacked any form of pre-med advising; so thats my excuse.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

I decided to become a Doc cause I thought, "whats another 4 years of schooling anyways!?"

Then I found out about the MCAT.... not too big of a deal
Then I found out I had to get a **** load of ECs.... kinda annoying
Then I found out C's get degrees but not acceptances.... man-oh-man!
Then I found out that Med school is ridiculously time intensive.... a little scary
Then I found out about residency.... **** son!
Then I found out about the stresses of the Job.... why did I choose this path again?

In short... I overlooked essentially everything there is to over look. I didn't have any Dr. family or friends and my CC lacked any form of pre-med advising; so thats my excuse.

So tell me what makes you still persue it than? Just curious.

 

[Tapepsi]

In my opinion, you should find as many negatives as you can with the medical profession, because if it's something that you really love, you will still want to go into it.

What did I learn when I shadowed a pediatrician that I didn't think about(my ideal profession)?
1) Parents are more difficult to work with then the kids. They always think that they know what's best for their kids.
2) There may be treatments that you want to give them that won't be covered or that the parents refuse to commit to and that can be very frustrating.
3) You have to fill out a LOT of paperwork.
4) There will be children who are fearful and don't trust you and will literally throw themselves off the table before you try and take their temperature.
5) Children brought in by social workers many have come from families with abuse (which is evident by the bruises on their arms and legs) and it is very sad seeing that someone would actually hurt them.
6) Given the high amount of debt you get from med school, pediatricians have one of the lowest salaries in the medical field.

These are just some that I could think of off the top of my head. Yet after reading all of these I still want to become a pediatrician, because the positives outweighed the negatives everytime.

So that's just an example.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

That's the thing I've been doing lately. I'm trying to find all the negatives about medicine and see if I'm still ok with it. I don't want to only focus on just the superficial things and actually try to look at the stuff people tend to miss and don't give a thought about.

I would hate to be so far in the journey to only find something I total hate and fail to notice.

Of course I'm not gonna know everything, but its best to do sometype of research right? lol

 

[vanillabear55]

Then I found out C's get degrees but not acceptances.... man-oh-man!

-_-

 

[halethsonofhama]

So tell me what makes you still persue it than? Just curious.

I've put in a lot of work already (granted I'm still at the bottom of the MD hill and have a long way to go). Turning back now would essentially be a waste of the past 4 years.

Don't get me wrong, I know I will love being a Doc- But I recognize that putting in this much effort (and money) is not worth it for a job... because thats all it is in the end... a job

Get back to me after a I pay back my debt and have secured a decent position somewhere and maybe I'll have changed my mind saying it was worth it (but thats only because I am too old to remember how I spent my early 20's)

 

[apumic]

I've put in a lot of work already (granted I'm still at the bottom of the MD hill and have a long way to go). Turning back now would essentially be a waste of the past 4 years.

Don't get me wrong, I know I will love being a Doc- But I recognize that putting in this much effort (and money) is not worth it for a job... because thats all it is in the end... a job

Get back to me after a I pay back my debt and have secured a decent position somewhere and maybe I'll have changed my mind saying it was worth it (but thats only because I am too old to remember how I spent my early 20's)

Most physicians I know don't see it that way and my guess would be you won't by the time you're done, either. "Jobs" are 9-5 M-F things we do to make money. Good luck getting into a medical field where you can reasonably expect to pull those hours! ...And don't forget about the hours of research (lit review) you must do regularly to keep up to date, time you're on call, time you're "off call" BUT still taking calls (either because the answering service screwed up or b/c there's some sort of "emergency" with one of your pts), time you're "off" but at a conference somewhere to learn a new skill for your "job".... When we talk about specialties with 45. 50, 55, 60 hrs/wk of work, we mean clinical and hospital hours -- actual in-the-building work. That time does not include all the work you'll be doing from home. If this is a "job" to you, I'd suggest reconsidering, because it's a lifestyle of sacrifice, not a job, not even a career.

 

[methylethyl88]

Don't overlook the importance of hobbies and non academic pursuits...

 

[halethsonofhama]

Most physicians I know don't see it that way and my guess would be you won't by the time you're done, either. "Jobs" are 9-5 M-F things we do to make money. Good luck getting into a medical field where you can reasonably expect to pull those hours! ...And don't forget about the hours of research (lit review) you must do regularly to keep up to date, time you're on call, time you're "off call" BUT still taking calls (either because the answering service screwed up or b/c there's some sort of "emergency" with one of your pts), time you're "off" but at a conference somewhere to learn a new skill for your "job".... When we talk about specialties with 45. 50, 55, 60 hrs/wk of work, we mean clinical and hospital hours -- actual in-the-building work. That time does not include all the work you'll be doing from home. If this is a "job" to you, I'd suggest reconsidering, because it's a lifestyle of sacrifice, not a job, not even a career.

But the job and the 'book-work' isn't the bad part. I like working in medicine, and I enjoy learning new things (at a reasonable rate). As a board certified Doc, there is time for family and hobbies if you make time for them (might take a bit out of your pay, but its an option). What sucks are all the hoops we have jumped through, and will continue to jump through, for these next couple years. Pre-med through residency leaves little time for much else; it is this period that is the sacrifice.

All I'm saying is that when people ask "who are you?" I'm going to reply with a name, not "I'm a doctor" (unless she seems into that kinda thing ).

 

[apumic]

But the job and the 'book-work' isn't the bad part. I like working in medicine, and I enjoy learning new things (at a reasonable rate). As a board certified Doc, there is time for family and hobbies if you make time for them (might take a bit out of your pay, but its an option). What sucks are all the hoops we have jumped through, and will continue to jump through, for these next couple years. Pre-med through residency leaves little time for much else; it is this period that is the sacrifice.

All I'm saying is that when people ask "who are you?" I'm going to reply with a name, not "I'm a doctor" (unless she seems into that kinda thing ).

In many specialties, you can't simply "make time" for play because there are sick people who need you and your colleagues need your help. You cannot simply "accept less pay" in this line of work (in many specialties). While residency and med school are certainly a part of the sacrifice, I think far too many pre-meds (and probably med students as well) tend to assume it will all get easier in a few years. The docs I know would say med school was the time of their life, residency and fellowship were time-consuming but the next 20 years after residency were much tougher than medical school ever was and, in many cases, not that much unlike the time commitment of residency (i.e., 60-70+ hrs + call vs. 80+ hrs + call each wk).

 

[KinesStudent]

When a person decides they want to persue a medical degree and become a doctor etc what are the things they tend to overlook and fail to give a thorough thought about?

As I'm starting out on this journey, I try my best to understand and educate myself on alot of the things that goes on in medicine like health care bill, lifestyle, schooling, application process and other major and minor things that are involve.

So to those experience members, what do you think pre med tend to miss when wanting to becocme a doctor? what type of questions should we ask ourselves and points we should know and consider before jumping in?

Thanks

Needed:

Foresight
Devotion
Determination
Balance

Not Needed:

Overly romanticized TV view of Doctors
Quick Decisions
Exclusion of the other things that make you human
Underestimation of commitment & work in med school, residency and beyond

 

[cheesier]

Most physicians I know don't see it that way and my guess would be you won't by the time you're done, either. "Jobs" are 9-5 M-F things we do to make money. Good luck getting into a medical field where you can reasonably expect to pull those hours! ...And don't forget about the hours of research (lit review) you must do regularly to keep up to date, time you're on call, time you're "off call" BUT still taking calls (either because the answering service screwed up or b/c there's some sort of "emergency" with one of your pts), time you're "off" but at a conference somewhere to learn a new skill for your "job".... When we talk about specialties with 45. 50, 55, 60 hrs/wk of work, we mean clinical and hospital hours -- actual in-the-building work. That time does not include all the work you'll be doing from home. If this is a "job" to you, I'd suggest reconsidering, because it's a lifestyle of sacrifice, not a job, not even a career.

This doesn't exist in the real world.

 

[apumic]

This doesn't exist in the real world.

Sure it does. They aren't generally the best paying jobs, but they do exist: recreational management, restaurant manager, asst manager at any number of retail stores, etc. Such jobs exist; they simply aren't jobs people here probably want, although one could argue that dentists and PAs can sometimes get these kinds of hours (probably more easily than most physicians) and plenty of seasoned nurses and nursing managers manage to get hours like these. (Once a nurse goes home, it is unlike he/she is going to be called back in to see a pt.)

 

[cheesier]

Sure it does. They aren't generally the best paying jobs, but they do exist: recreational management, restaurant manager, asst manager at any number of retail stores, etc. Such jobs exist; they simply aren't jobs people here probably want, although one could argue that dentists and PAs can sometimes get these kinds of hours (probably more easily than most physicians) and plenty of seasoned nurses and nursing managers manage to get hours like these. (Once a nurse goes home, it is unlike he/she is going to be called back in to see a pt.)

K, I don't want to derail too much, but management positions, even an assistant manager position, is not going to involve 8 hour workdays. Especially anything in the culinary business. Their hours are godawful. Nurses typically do shift work, which is 12 hours although I'm sure there are 8 hour gigs somewhere. My point is that the 9-5 thing is largely a myth (not saying somebody somewhere doesn't have that schedule), especially when the job market is the way it is. Most people are working more hours, not less, and for any of the careers often mentioned on these boards (engineering, academia, banking, etc), you will not find 9-5 hours.

 

[halethsonofhama]

In other words, Apumic, "Nanny-nanny-boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo"

 

[mauberley]

This doesn't exist in the real world.

Where I work, there's a whole manufacturing floor full of workers that work eight-hour shifts.

I think the point you're making is that white-collar jobs where you expect to have some sort of career advancement will require more than 40 hours of work per week. Let's not equate that with being the entirety of the real world.

 

[Astarael]

One thing that is really easy for people to overlook is the fact that it is an incredibly stressful profession. There are a lot of people that make it through to the end without much fuss, but there are also a lot of people that encounter major mental issues (depression, anxiety, etc.) while they are in training or in practice. It's not a profession for people whose emotional state is easily compromised.

 

[cheesier]

Where I work, there's a whole manufacturing floor full of workers that work eight-hour shifts.

I think the point you're making is that white-collar jobs where you expect to have some sort of career advancement will require more than 40 hours of work per week. Let's not equate that with being the entirety of the real world.

Well, I kind of assumed we were limiting our discussion to jobs that a newly minted college graduate would get, not trades and manufacturing sector work. There are 8 hour white collar jobs, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Oh, and to actually answer the OP: I would suggest asking this of doctors. ITT, premeds tell you how horrible the profession that they inexplicably want to enter is. Every, and I mean every doctor that I've ever talked to has been extremely enthusiastic about their work.

 

[iqe2010]

You won't really understand what doctors go through until you've actually become one. From my understanding, doctors are basically the insurance companies' bitch. Doctors are nothing like they are portrayed in the media, and I mean NOTHING.

 

[apumic]

Well, I kind of assumed we were limiting our discussion to jobs that a newly minted college graduate would get, not trades and manufacturing sector work. There are 8 hour white collar jobs, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Oh, and to actually answer the OP: I would suggest asking this of doctors. ITT, premeds tell you how horrible the profession that they inexplicably want to enter is. Every, and I mean every doctor that I've ever talked to has been extremely enthusiastic about their work.

I think you need to do more shadowing, son. J/k...sorta.

But, honestly, if you've truly never met a doc who was anything but enthusiastic with his/her work you probably haven't actually gotten to know many. Some of us who are offering our thoughts as premeds are 1) not traditional students and 2) work with a variety of physicians every day. Personally, I have some very compelling reasons for wanting to go into medicine; however, I know I'm laying my life down and I don't expect to pick it back up. I suspect a lot of people don't realize the sacrifices they are making entering this profession.

You won't really understand what doctors go through until you've actually become one. From my understanding, doctors are basically the insurance companies' bitch. Doctors are nothing like they are portrayed in the media, and I mean NOTHING.

Haha... unfortunately, there really is quite a bit of truth to this. If you want to stay in business, you serve 3 masters: the insurance company, the hospital, and the patient's family. Guess how often they agree on anything? Almost Never!

 

[cheesier]

I think you need to do more shadowing, son. J/k...sorta.

But, honestly, if you've truly never met a doc who was anything but enthusiastic with his/her work you probably haven't actually gotten to know many. Some of us who are offering our thoughts as premeds are 1) not traditional students and 2) work with a variety of physicians every day. Personally, I have some very compelling reasons for wanting to go into medicine; however, I know I'm laying my life down and I don't expect to pick it back up. I suspect a lot of people don't realize the sacrifices they are making entering this profession.

Or y'know, it could just be that most doctors, like most people in any profession, are relatively pleased with what they do. Every job has people that got into it for the wrong reasons, or even the best reasons, but came to hate it. I'm sure that you've interacted with doctors more than me, but seeing them get flustered at work isn't the same as seeing that they're unhappy with their lives. And wth does it mean to "lay your life down and not pick it up"? The melodrama from premeds is annoying and inherently based in ungrounded perception rather than reality (hence the pre in pre-med). That's why I'm suggesting the OP go directly to the source and ask doctors.

 

[Margra]

One interesting thing that I am surprised a lot of people don't know is that when you say "I'm going to medical school" or "I'm in medical school" or even "I'm a doctor", people will not grovel at your feet. Certainly, some will (and some will be very impressed and supportive!).

Overall, realize why you are going in to it (and be honest with yourself) and never lose sight!

 

[KinesStudent]

).

Overall, realize why you are going in to it (and be honest with yourself) and never lose sight!

 

[apumic]

Or y'know, it could just be that most doctors, like most people in any profession, are relatively pleased with what they do. Every job has people that got into it for the wrong reasons, or even the best reasons, but came to hate it. I'm sure that you've interacted with doctors more than me, but seeing them get flustered at work isn't the same as seeing that they're unhappy with their lives. And wth does it mean to "lay your life down and not pick it up"? The melodrama from premeds is annoying and inherently based in ungrounded perception rather than reality (hence the pre in pre-med). That's why I'm suggesting the OP go directly to the source and ask doctors.

To make a sacrifice and expect nothing in return.

The world owes you nothing, so expect little or nothing in return.

I certainly wouldn't say a lot of docs are unhappy w their choice of profession, but I do know a number that would suggest stopping and really considering the difficulty of this career path before pursuing it. The ones I work with and whom I know especially well have two sides they present. To the typical premed, they present professionally and you will generally hear things through rose-colored glasses (i.e., they'll mention the hardships but always from an optimistic perspective). OTOH, when I work with them closely, I get to see and hear the other side and, in private, they will be much more honest w/ me (i.e., "Are you sure you really want to get into this?" types of questions followed by the frustrations they have with the state of medicine).

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Apumic, what type of fustrations do they present to you if you don't mind me asking.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Most premeds don't understand the reality of the medical field. And unfortunately, its impossible to understand until you get there.

Some of the annoying parts of working in the medical field:
-decreasing reimbursement especially for primary care physicians
-fighting with insuance companies over patient care
-being unable to care for uninsured patients
-patient non-compliance, lack of value of good health, and not valuing healthcare because they never pay for it
-the insistence in our society to always do everything despite quality of life causing absurd healthcare costs and futile use of limited resources
-the healthcare system that is literally crumbling around us
-the culture of medicine which is often crude, crass and EXTREMELY insensitive
-the paperwork which leaves you spending 5 min with you patient and 20 min charting it and doing orders

My spiel on medicine:

I think its just one of those things where the idea is better than the reality. And no matter how much clinical experience and shadowing you have, its hard to understand how medicine truly is.

I love my job and can't wait to start residency. But med school changes your life, it affects your personality, affects your perspective on the world and strains your relationships.

I realized that I am not really career driven enough to have 'needed' medicine. I could have been just as happy doing a lot of other things that wouldn't have completely consumed my life like medicine does. Also I could have been successful in other fields. People love to argue that if you weren't in medicine we would all be living at home and working at the gap at 30. But the reality is that most people who are smart enough to become a doctor would have succeeded outside of the medical field as well.

As far as how to know its the right path for you - theres no way to know the answer that question. But in general, when I talk to friends I tell them unless you really think you absolutely COULD NOT LIVE without an MD...consider other options. Autonomy is great but limited even for a physician, and the cost is high (both financially and abstractly).

So if you're someone who cares more about having a family and is looking for a secure, decent paying job that you enjoy - I would say an MD path isn't necessarily the way to go. There are plenty of other science related jobs where you get to help people and the cost is less.

 

[apumic]

Apumic, what type of fustrations do they present to you if you don't mind me asking.

A few off the top of my head:

Insurance games:

• Robbed blind by private insurers who promise to pay and then don't
• Blind robbery by Medicare (which often pays MONTHS later than than the due date on the bill without compensating the physician in any way)

Hospital admin games

• Hospitals stalling on contracts b/c they don't want to spend more money and know the current contracts are far undercompensating their physicians (so to avoid rising to the new expectations, they simply stall negotiations)
• Hospital admins allowing their RNs and even CNAs and Techs to undermine physician authority (e.g., having a CNA repeatedly question the Medical Director's decision to admit Patient X instead of Patient Y when other physicians would agree with the Medical Director's decision and have sort of recourse or even having a CNA or RN actually REVERSE the order made that Medical Director after he leaves the unit)
• Regulations from multiple sources (TJC, CMS, etc.) that all conflict with each other but the hospital is forced to uphold, which often stands in the way of actually achieving the very things these organizations exist to promote (i.e., optimal patient care)

Patients

• Patients who take advantage of state insurance programs (e.g., Medicaid-based indigent care services) and threaten to sue a physician because s/he says "No" when that patient asks for literally 10s or 100s of additional (medically unnecessary) tests
• Patients that take advantage of EMTALA and feign various medical illnesses (or sometimes injuries) in order to get a free meal in the ED and then proceed to be very unruly and rude to the ED staff, patient non-compliance/refusal to comply and then coming back for more medication (because "it didn't work") or threatening to sue (because "it didn't work")
• Patients who make unnecessary legal threats or try to intimidate healthcare providers in other ways

Life

• Call at all hours of the night
• Rarely seeing your family
• Missing your kids' early lives because you didn't yet have the seniority necessary to get those times of the day off when they were still awake (and that's assuming you ever get that level of seniority or anyone is able to get that kind of time off in your group)
• Ever-declining reimbursements and autonomy

I'm sure they've mentioned more, but those are some highlights I've had physicians mention.

 

[muhali3]

Even though I'm a pre-med, I think that many go into medicine with the idea that it will lead to a comfortable lifestyle, good income, and prestige. This is primarily why they decide to pursue medicine. They fail to acknowledge the numerous other healthcare fields that can provide those same things without the extremely long time investment, emotional abuse, and stress that medicine offers. The decision to go into medicine should be an emotionally-driven decision, not a rationally-driven one.

Looking at medicine from a cost-benefit perspective, it's not a very good deal. But for some people there is an emotional benefit that serves to outweigh the costs. You have to know whether or not you fit into that demographic.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Most premeds don't understand the reality of the medical field. And unfortunately, its impossible to understand until you get there.

Some of the annoying parts of working in the medical field:
-decreasing reimbursement especially for primary care physicians
-fighting with insuance companies over patient care
-being unable to care for uninsured patients
-patient non-compliance, lack of value of good health, and not valuing healthcare because they never pay for it
-the insistence in our society to always do everything despite quality of life causing absurd healthcare costs and futile use of limited resources
-the healthcare system that is literally crumbling around us
-the culture of medicine which is often crude, crass and EXTREMELY insensitive
-the paperwork which leaves you spending 5 min with you patient and 20 min charting it and doing orders

My spiel on medicine:

I think its just one of those things where the idea is better than the reality. And no matter how much clinical experience and shadowing you have, its hard to understand how medicine truly is.

I love my job and can't wait to start residency. But med school changes your life, it affects your personality, affects your perspective on the world and strains your relationships.

I realized that I am not really career driven enough to have 'needed' medicine. I could have been just as happy doing a lot of other things that wouldn't have completely consumed my life like medicine does. Also I could have been successful in other fields. People love to argue that if you weren't in medicine we would all be living at home and working at the gap at 30. But the reality is that most people who are smart enough to become a doctor would have succeeded outside of the medical field as well.

As far as how to know its the right path for you - theres no way to know the answer that question. But in general, when I talk to friends I tell them unless you really think you absolutely COULD NOT LIVE without an MD...consider other options. Autonomy is great but limited even for a physician, and the cost is high (both financially and abstractly).

So if you're someone who cares more about having a family and is looking for a secure, decent paying job that you enjoy - I would say an MD path isn't necessarily the way to go. There are plenty of other science related jobs where you get to help people and the cost is less.

A few off the top of my head:

Insurance games:

• Robbed blind by private insurers who promise to pay and then don't
• Blind robbery by Medicare (which often pays MONTHS later than than the due date on the bill without compensating the physician in any way)

Hospital admin games

• Hospitals stalling on contracts b/c they don't want to spend more money and know the current contracts are far undercompensating their physicians (so to avoid rising to the new expectations, they simply stall negotiations)
• Hospital admins allowing their RNs and even CNAs and Techs to undermine physician authority (e.g., having a CNA repeatedly question the Medical Director's decision to admit Patient X instead of Patient Y when other physicians would agree with the Medical Director's decision and have sort of recourse or even having a CNA or RN actually REVERSE the order made that Medical Director after he leaves the unit)
• Regulations from multiple sources (TJC, CMS, etc.) that all conflict with each other but the hospital is forced to uphold, which often stands in the way of actually achieving the very things these organizations exist to promote (i.e., optimal patient care)

Patients

• Patients who take advantage of state insurance programs (e.g., Medicaid-based indigent care services) and threaten to sue a physician because s/he says "No" when that patient asks for literally 10s or 100s of additional (medically unnecessary) tests
• Patients that take advantage of EMTALA and feign various medical illnesses (or sometimes injuries) in order to get a free meal in the ED and then proceed to be very unruly and rude to the ED staff, patient non-compliance/refusal to comply and then coming back for more medication (because "it didn't work") or threatening to sue (because "it didn't work")
• Patients who make unnecessary legal threats or try to intimidate healthcare providers in other ways

Life

• Call at all hours of the night
• Rarely seeing your family
• Missing your kids' early lives because you didn't yet have the seniority necessary to get those times of the day off when they were still awake (and that's assuming you ever get that level of seniority or anyone is able to get that kind of time off in your group)
• Ever-declining reimbursements and autonomy

I'm sure they've mentioned more, but those are some highlights I've had physicians mention.

Thank you very much. The posts from both of you is exactly where I am trying to get at.

I was expose to some of these before when I was shadowing a surgeon and a specialist. They only gave me a run down of it, but I can see their fustration and like ALwaysangel said, they told me they love their job, but wish they didn't make it their whole life catering to it. One of them actually said he wouldn't let his son do this.

But yes, thank you. All these informations are gold and will help me (and hopefully others) who wants to go into medicine.