What are the best areas to be a DO?

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MachoDOAndySavage

MachoDOAndySavage

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It seems like everyone complains about how hard it is for DO's to get certain kinds of residencies and the like, but are there area's of the country where DO's have a better shot at landing things like derm and ortho residencies than others?
 
Usually it is easier if you just go to an AOA residency. However, if you are asking for ACGME residencies, then I would believe place with high prevalence of DOs help to a small degree. Most of whom practice in the midwestern region and possibly the east coast (mind you DOs are all over the place).
 
MachoDOAndySavage said:
It seems like everyone complains about how hard it is for DO's to get certain kinds of residencies and the like, but are there area's of the country where DO's have a better shot at landing things like derm and ortho residencies than others?
Click to expand...

The Midwest. The worst place would be Boston and the Pacific Northwest, Northern California as well. These regions tend to be full of rich people who will mistake your for a chiropractor and have a heavy MD bias.
 
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Seth Joo said:
The Midwest. The worst place would be Boston and the Pacific Northwest, Northern California as well. These regions tend to be full of rich people who will mistake your for a chiropractor and have a heavy MD bias.
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No offense, but I have read couple posts, if not all rooting for MD's. However, you're DO student!!!!
May I just ask you how on the world did you convince the ADCOM on your interview day, specifically" why did you choose osteopathic medicine".
 
Seth Joo said:
The Midwest. The worst place would be Boston and the Pacific Northwest, Northern California as well. These regions tend to be full of rich people who will mistake your for a chiropractor and have a heavy MD bias.
Click to expand...

Usually those are the type of people to avoid anyways, whether an individual has MD or DO lettering next to their name.
 
Tr1LL said:
Usually those are the type of people to avoid anyways, whether an individual has MD or DO lettering next to their name.
Click to expand...

Northern California and Massachusetts are very anti DO places. Actually both are good places to live they just happen to be full of rich people, and rich people are picky about who they see when they get sick, as I mentioned people see brands, Toyota Mercedes, the DO brand perception does not ring to high among people in those regions.

There is still a strong notion among educated folks that DOs are poor man's MDs. It is so bad, that I even know some faculty who have their family members see MDs.
 
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ATL.F.Doc said:
No offense, but I have read couple posts, if not all rooting for MD's. However, you're DO student!!!!
May I just ask you how on the world did you convince the ADCOM on your interview day, specifically" why did you choose osteopathic medicine".
Click to expand...

Ask him how he feels about being a DO.
 
DrEnderW said:
I generally agree. Many places in manhattan can be tough, but the greater NYC area is solid. There are lots of programs and schools relatively close by.
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NYC Sucks. This is coming from a Boston guy. Cost of living is astronomical, quality of life is horribile, dirty, crowded, polluted, but for a big coastal city, its got opportunity for DOs.
 
Seth Joo said:
NYC Sucks. This is coming from a Boston guy.
Click to expand...

Haha. I've think we've had this conversation before.

I did a couple years in Boston years back. Threw away my Papelbon jersey and closed that door forever.
 
DrEnderW said:
Haha. I've think we've had this conversation before.

I did a couple years in Boston years back. Threw away my Papelbon jersey and closed that door forever.
Click to expand...

Boston is a more livable city than NY by mile, much better smelling too.
 
IslandStyle808 said:
Usually it is easier if you just go to an AOA residency. However, if you are asking for ACGME residencies, then I would believe place with high prevalence of DOs help to a small degree. Most of whom practice in the midwestern region and possibly the east coast (mind you DOs are all over the place).
Click to expand...

This is the newest map from the AOA.

VUrDVhw.jpg


They counted only AOA members. The real numbers are likely different because many DOs went to ACGME programs and have no obligation to join the AOA.
 
Harker Heights said:
This is the newest map from the AOA.

VUrDVhw.jpg


They counted only AOA members. The real numbers are likely different because many DOs went to ACGME programs and have no obligation to join the AOA.
Click to expand...

If that map was accurate, the Midwestern states like Michigan and Ohio would have the highest concentration of DOs, also Illinois. California is shaded dark, but that is very misleading, because there are few and very limited opportunities for DOs over there, particularly in the North.
 
Seth Joo said:
Northern California and Massachusetts are very anti DO places. Actually both are good places to live they just happen to be full of rich people, and rich people are picky about who they see when they get sick, as I mentioned people see brands, Toyota Mercedes, the DO brand perception does not ring to high among people in those regions.

There is still a strong notion among educated folks that DOs are poor man's MDs. It is so bad, that I even know some faculty who have their family members see MDs.
Click to expand...


What a ridiculous thing to think that rich people don't know any better that a DO is like a chiropractor. I know a foreign-trained MD charging $3500 annual concierge fee for his services. People don't care about their physician's training, but rather the service and care they are provided. Moreover, rich people often have physician friends and it is unlikely that their MD friend will tell them not to see a DO.
 
allantois said:
What a ridiculous thing to think that rich people don't know any better that a DO is like a chiropractor. I know a foreign-trained MD charging $3500 annual concierge fee for his services. People don't care about their physician's training, but rather the service and care they are provided. Moreover, rich people often have physician friends and it is unlikely that their MD friend will tell them not to see a DO.
Click to expand...

Most hospitals that see wealthy patients are staffed by MDs from big name medical schools. And in metro regions like Boston, San Francisco, etc, Harvard, Yale MDs are a dime a dozen, so if you are a DO or an IMG, its not going to look to well for you because you have some serious competition.

I won't name names but one of my friends, his OMM Professor at his DO school was listed as "Chiropracter" on Yelp.
 
ATL.F.Doc said:
No offense, but I have read couple posts, if not all rooting for MD's. However, you're DO student!!!!
May I just ask you how on the world did you convince the ADCOM on your interview day, specifically" why did you choose osteopathic medicine".
Click to expand...

if you think he is a real do student, i have a bridge to sell you.
his knowledge of do schools is at best superficial and consists of parroting previous info from sdn threads, and his posting history shows nothing but negativity towards do students and do schools.
 
Seth Joo said:
NYC Sucks. This is coming from a Boston guy. Cost of living is astronomical, quality of life is horribile, dirty, crowded, polluted, but for a big coastal city, its got opportunity for DOs.
Click to expand...

Boston sucks. They are pretentious (based on what you're saying) and its also small and significantly colder than ny. I barely feel like I'm in a city there. Boston can't touch NY in terms of opportunities and stuff too do. NYC is a world class city.
 
hse said:
if you think he is a real do student, i have a bridge to sell you.
his knowledge of do schools is at best superficial and consists of parroting previous info from sdn threads, and his posting history shows nothing but negativity towards do students and do schools.
Click to expand...

Do I need to post my ID badge? I am a real DO student, I might not be too fluffy while I write my posts. As I said, the Midwest seems to have the strongest population of DOs in the country, I think the Southeast is also open to DOs as well. There are parts of the Northeast like New York and Philly that have a good number of them as well.

Then there are regions like the Pacific Northwest, Boston, San Francisco, where you don't see too many and these are regions that are not that open when it comes to Osteopathic physicians.
 
hse said:
if you think he is a real do student, i have a bridge to sell you.
his knowledge of do schools is at best superficial and consists of parroting previous info from sdn threads, and his posting history shows nothing but negativity towards do students and do schools.
Click to expand...
Thanks for calling him out I was about to do so. That map sucks because it just shows raw numbers of AOA members. As mentioned above DO who go ACGME won't appear on that list. Furthermore it should shade by DO's per capita. Because California has 40 million residents of course there are bound to be more than 5,000 DOs. Crappy map.
 
Dr. Death said:
Thanks for calling him out I was about to do so. That map sucks because it just shows raw numbers of AOA members. As mentioned above DO who go ACGME won't appear on that list. Furthermore it should shade by DO's per capita. Because California has 40 million residents of course there are bound to be more than 5,000 DOs. Crappy map.
Click to expand...

If that were the case then California would be very light, Michigan and Ohio would be darkest.

Some people consider my school a de facto California DO school because 35 percent of my class is from CA.
 
I personally don't think Boston is all that bad for DOs. Sure, there aren't a lot there currently, because it's a heavily academic area and most DOs aren't heavily into research. However, those that are do pretty well. I have a few DO professors who did residency or fellowship at MGH or one of the Longwood hospitals and say it's not impossible to get out there if your numbers and experiences are on par with the MD applicants.

Also, there are almost always a good number of UNE grads at Tufts & BMC.
 
Harker Heights said:
This is the newest map from the AOA.

VUrDVhw.jpg


They counted only AOA members. The real numbers are likely different because many DOs went to ACGME programs and have no obligation to join the AOA.
Click to expand...

What a terrible figure. This is like stats 101 lol.
 
Harker Heights said:
This is the newest map from the AOA.

VUrDVhw.jpg


They counted only AOA members. The real numbers are likely different because many DOs went to ACGME programs and have no obligation to join the AOA.
Click to expand...

The best part about this map is the fact that if I look up the population of each and overlap it with this, the result would be the same.

Schools like SGU stated that they match the most people in the US. Now here is the thing they don't tell you....

What percentage of them do match? Just like what percentage of doctors are DOs in those areas?
 
Harker Heights said:
This is the newest map from the AOA.

VUrDVhw.jpg


They counted only AOA members. The real numbers are likely different because many DOs went to ACGME programs and have no obligation to join the AOA.
Click to expand...

I hate using wikipedia as a resource, but the map below is more accurate even though it was made in 2012. It shows them now as a percentage of DOs in each state. The darker the blue the greater the percentage and the red dots represent DO schools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteo...#/media/File:Osteopathic_distribution_US2.PNG

Notice how California, New York, Texas, and Florida are lighter...


Osteopathic_distribution_US2.PNG


Now if someone could find a more recent figure directly from a legitimate source that would be awesome...
 
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IslandStyle808 said:
Usually it is easier if you just go to an AOA residency. However, if you are asking for ACGME residencies, then I would believe place with high prevalence of DOs help to a small degree. Most of whom practice in the midwestern region and possibly the east coast (mind you DOs are all over the place).
Click to expand...

You mean former-AOA residency?
 
To be a DO? Any location that has people who get sick.

To land a residency? More your overall package as a applicant then location matters.
 
Seth Joo said:
If that map was accurate, the Midwestern states like Michigan and Ohio would have the highest concentration of DOs, also Illinois. California is shaded dark, but that is very misleading, because there are few and very limited opportunities for DOs over there, particularly in the North.
Click to expand...

so where are you going to practice? are you going to be an fm doc in bumfark, wyoming tending to farm animals while whining and moaning like a little b;tch because you don't get to service rich people in boston? did you not know that would be your fate before you applied to do school?
 
IslandStyle808 said:
Correct
Tough to say. I remember one person on the forum stating AOA residency are complying faster than excepted. So it may even happen sooner.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the idea the lesser competition as a result of it being DO only? I know there still might be some degree of preference for DOs. But with the population of MD's being so much larger, it's kind of like opening up the flood gates.
 
StudyLater said:
Wasn't the idea the lesser competition as a result of it being DO only? I know there still might be some degree of preference for DOs. But with the population of MD's being so much larger, it's kind of like opening up the flood gates.
Click to expand...

It's with the assumption PDs of former AOA residencies will still favor DO students. Your chances will be less than before. However, it still means your chances are better than with residences that have always been with the ACGME.
 
SpartanWolverine said:
Where does it mention 2022? On page 11 it doesn't mention a specific date for the "will there be a single match" question. I definitely could have missed it somewhere else though.
Click to expand...

Page 1:
"How do programs approved by the (AOA) become ACGME-accredited?"

I take the verbiage in this section to mean that between now and 2022 you can apply and get "pre-accreditation status." Why would there be a future date limit? Probably because they can't get full ACGME status until 2022. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Also, maybe they can do a combined match without full ACGME status?

Edit: I think my assumption was right. Page 11 says that until initial accreditation AOA wont be in the NRMP match system.
 
IslandStyle808 said:
It's with the assumption PDs of former AOA residencies will still favor DO students. Your chances will be less than before. However, it still means your chances are better than with residences that have always been with the ACGME.
Click to expand...

Right. That seems to be a safe assumption.
 
TUVIX said:
Page 1:
"How do programs approved by the (AOA) become ACGME-accredited?"

I take the verbiage in this section to mean that between now and 2022 you can apply and get "pre-accreditation status." Why would there be a future date limit? Probably because they can't get full ACGME status until 2022. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Also, maybe they can do a combined match without full ACGME status?
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying! Its tough to sort through a long pdf on a phone...

I don't know the answer, but hopefully we'll find out in the next couple years. I don't think it would make sense to hold on to the Osteopathic match for too long since any program not expecting ACGME accreditation should effectively be winding itself down and not accepting more students... but I'm still pretty unfamiliar with the process.
 
Seth Joo said:
Northern California and Massachusetts are very anti DO places. Actually both are good places to live they just happen to be full of rich people, and rich people are picky about who they see when they get sick, as I mentioned people see brands, Toyota Mercedes, the DO brand perception does not ring to high among people in those regions.

There is still a strong notion among educated folks that DOs are poor man's MDs. It is so bad, that I even know some faculty who have their family members see MDs.
Click to expand...

NYC I would say is pretty open to DOs, even amongst those with money. The DO I observed only practiced on the UWS directly across from Central Park/cash only.
 
What does all of this even mean?

You're a DO. You get into a residency. Are you saying it's going to be difficult to land a job as a physician in certain regions of the country because they won't hire DO's in that region?

Sure maybe its harder getting into a world class medical institution as a DO...but wouldn't it be pretty easy to find A job in norcal, pac nw, boston, etc...even as a lowly DO..?
 
yanks26dmb said:
What does all of this even mean?

You're a DO. You get into a residency. Are you saying it's going to be difficult to land a job as a physician in certain regions of the country because they won't hire DO's in that region?

Sure maybe its harder getting into a world class medical institution as a DO...but wouldn't it be pretty easy to find A job in norcal, pac nw, boston, etc...even as a lowly DO..?
Click to expand...
I'm guessing it's linked to the number of DOs going into residencies in those regions. I've always heard that conventional wisdom dictates that any doctor MD/DO can get a job just about anywhere, region wise.
 
yanks26dmb said:
What does all of this even mean?

You're a DO. You get into a residency. Are you saying it's going to be difficult to land a job as a physician in certain regions of the country because they won't hire DO's in that region?

Sure maybe its harder getting into a world class medical institution as a DO...but wouldn't it be pretty easy to find A job in norcal, pac nw, boston, etc...even as a lowly DO..?
Click to expand...

Once you get a residency getting a job is not a problem, the bottleneck is the residency, some places, actually a lot of the better places do not even look at you if you are a DO. You will find out about that in 3 years. Even if you go to a residency in another state, lets say Chicago, you can still get a job elsewhere.


Its specialty residencies that tend to be tough for DOs, fields like non academic IM, Family Medicine, EM, OB Gyn, Psychiatry, DOs can go anywhere in the country. If you are aiming for academic IM, Derm, Cardiothoracic Surgery, then its a whole other ball game.
 
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Seth Joo said:
Once you get a residency getting a job is not a problem, the bottleneck is the residency, some places, actually a lot of the better places do not even look at you if you are a DO. You will find out about that in 3 years. Even if you go to a residency in another state, lets say Chicago, you can still get a job elsewhere.


Its specialty residencies that tend to be tough for DOs, fields like non academic IM, Family Medicine, EM, OB Gyn, Psychiatry, DOs can go anywhere in the country. If you are aiming for academic IM, Derm, Cardiothoracic Surgery, then its a whole other ball game.
Click to expand...

I'm super early in the game, but right now I'm most interested in EM, Psych, and PMR...which are all vastly different, I realize.

Sounds like EM and Pysch (even moreso I'd think) would be easy to land as a DO. I have heard that PMR is the one field that may give DO's a leg up...but does that include academic places as well?
 
Michigan <3

Especially the areas where MSU has a campus: Macomb, EL and Detroit
 
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