What Are The Best Schools In Terms Of Clinical Training???

[ILikeTeeth]

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Hello to All.

I am in the process of applying to dental schools for Fall of 2005. I want to apply to schools that have excellent clinical training. I think most of us know Temple is great in terms of clinical training. But is it the best? What other schools are great in clinical training. I mean after all most of us will, at least I will be, working as a dentist, and I won't be doing research. So if I can get some feedback I would greatly appreciate. I know temple see's a lot of patients. What are some other schools that sees lots of patients. If I could get some raw numbers on how many patients the school sees, how many patients does a student see, what are the clinical requirements to graduate (like how many crowns, root canals, extractions. etc...) I personally want to be the best dentist I can out of dental school and thus want to go to a school that is focused on clinical training. I am not saying everyone should take this path, but its the path for me. If someone likes to go into research - I am all for it. I hope I get some feedback soon. Thank you

 

[predentchick]

Just a head's up... People get their panties in a twist when anyone asks who "the best" is. They will tell you the best school is one that you can get into and is the cheapest. Don't take offense to anyone!

 

[ILikeTeeth]

Hello, Thanks for the reply. I understand people are going to say that, my questions is if someone can just tell me what are good schools in terms of clinincal training.

Thank you

 

[nnjh]

I would give a big thumbs up for case western reserve

 

[DDSSlave]

They will tell you the best school is one that you can get into and is the cheapest.

Sounds like very good advice to me.

OP: The majority of schools are going to give you an excellent foundation in clinical dentistry. Enough so that you will feel comfortable going into private practice after graduating. The number of requirements at each school is good to look into and I'd suggest asking that in the Dental forum to get more dental students' input.

 

[jheidenr]

I would say schools in large urban cities generally have good clinical training. They usually have a large lower income population that supports their patient base. An example is U. of Detroit Mercy.

Another factor is what kind of specialty programs there are at that particular school. For example, the Denver dental school only has an orthodontics program, so the dental students get to work with most all the other patients (endo, perio, etc.). This is in contrast to a school like U of Michigan where all the interesting or challenging cases go to the specialty students.

 

[Mo007]

I heard Tufts and OSU are among the best.

 

[ILikeTeeth]

Hello Again,

Tufts and OSU huh? For peopel that have replied in this tread, would you care to share what schools you guys are attending or will attend. My DAT scores are not the greatest at all, but my GPA is pretty strong, I am applying to Temple b/c of there clinical track record, I guess I will be applying to Tufts and OSU now as well, any others out there.

Yes I understand that all dental schools will train you to practice dentistry. But schools some schools are better at it then others.

Has anyone actually thought about the lab work. Meaning some schools have there students do the lab work (Temple) while other schools have the lab work sent out (UPenn) and have a dental lab do the work. I think the Temple way is better, even though in the real world you will have it sent out, but this way you know what goes into it. If there is a problem and you are a Temple grad you are more likely to correct the problem rather then take measurements and send it back to the lab, this takes time, the patient is not happy, and you don't get paid. The students that I have talked to at Temple hate the lab, but its like a love hate relationship, you hate it now but love it in the long run, any thoughts???

 

[DDSSlave]

I would say schools in large urban cities generally have good clinical training. They usually have a large lower income population that supports their patient base. An example is U. of Detroit Mercy.

👍

Another factor is what kind of specialty programs there are at that particular school. For example, the Denver dental school only has an orthodontics program, so the dental students get to work with most all the other patients (endo, perio, etc.). This is in contrast to a school like U of Michigan where all the interesting or challenging cases go to the specialty students.

The flip side to this is there are fewer specialists in a given department to teach you (a big deal IMO). In schools with specialty departments, you are often given the opportunity to take on the more challenging cases or refer. For example: various perio surgeries or more complicated endo. Some students want to take on the perio surgery; some students understandably don't.

 

[DDSSlave]

Has anyone actually thought about the lab work. Meaning some schools have there students do the lab work (Temple) while other schools have the lab work sent out (UPenn) and have a dental lab do the work. I think the Temple way is better, even though in the real world you will have it sent out, but this way you know what goes into it. If there is a problem and you are a Temple grad you are more likely to correct the problem rather then take measurements and send it back to the lab, this takes time, the patient is not happy, and you don't get paid. The students that I have talked to at Temple hate the lab, but its like a love hate relationship, you hate it now but love it in the long run, any thoughts???

Another advantage of familiarizing yourself with lab work is understanding the quality of what comes back from the lab. All labs are not created equal.

 

[ILikeTeeth]

Hey,

Does UT Huston make students do there own lab work?

How about Tufts, and OSU - the students do there own lab at those schools?

 

[DDSSlave]

Does UT Huston make students do there own lab work?

Mostly during 3rd year.

 

[toothcaries]

Hey,

Does UT Huston make students do there own lab work?

How about Tufts, and OSU - the students do there own lab at those schools?

i'm a d4 @ osu.
if u choose to attend ohio state..
...you will have do most of your own labwork.
(but not all)

 

[ILikeTeeth]

How does OSU rank in terms of clinical training??? Does anyone know the top 5 schools in clinical training, I know Temple is in the top 5

 

[toothcaries]

I heard Tufts and OSU are among the best.

..honestly, u will get a good education at osu...i dont see osu as a "clinical school" at this time...
(that said, there is currently a curriculum change going on...ask about it during your interview)
the problem really isnt the patient base...it is access for the patients to the clinic.


the strength of our program is the faculty..
you will be learning from instuctors that literally wrote the many of the books on dentistry.
for example..
if u had a question about something u read in contemporary orthodontics...u could simply ask dr fields about it when u work with him on your ortho case.

the facilities here are below average...however the ohio state campus is a great place to study, imo.

also..
dont tell anyone this..
😉
(it's still in a planning stage)
..but there is a rumor that a new dental building is to be build within 5 years..
(at the very least, parking for patients shouldnt be a problem)

 

[Reed1978]

I heard Tufts and OSU are among the best.

True.

Tufts is one of the premier clinical schools in the country, and since Boston is essentially the hub of the entire known universe - the boundaries of Tufts esteemed repute extend for roughly 90 billion miles in every direction - ya heard?!

 

[toothcaries]

How does OSU rank in terms of clinical training??? Does anyone know the top 5 schools in clinical training, I know Temple is in the top 5

you wont get a ranking....
it's way too subjective.


ask about type and number of procedures needed for graduation?
ask about opportunitie to do ortho cases, rotary rct, implants placement/restor., surgical wizzies, crown lengthening, ect...
total patient visits?
what is the patient pool?
..are students busy?
# of patients in a student's practice?

that stuff will vary.

at osu..
we do the comprehensive thing...
which means u treat everything you treatment plan for your patient (unless it is a "specialty" procedure)

..another negative (may be a postive if u want to specialize)..is that all the specialties are here.
those residents need patients.
what that means is you will not be doing the more challenging posterior root canals...

that said...
...you u will get from osu what u put into it.
if u want to do "more"...you can....but no one will force you.


bottom line for me..
..i'm happy with my clinical experience so far...and at osu in general.
are things perfect here?
nope...not even close.

but a dental degree is a dental degree.
...and imo, osu is a good place to spend the next 4 years or so earning that degree.

 

[ILikeTeeth]

True.

Tufts is one of the premier clinical schools in the country, and since Boston is essentially the hub of the entire known universe - the boundaries of Tufts esteemed repute extend for roughly 90 billion miles in every direction - ya heard?!

In your opinion, what other schools are good in clinical training? I understand all 54 schools will ready you to practice dentistry, but which are better then others? How many patients on average will a student see at Tufts? Do you guys at Tufts do your own lab work or have it sent to a dental lab? I think doing your own lab work is a plus in the long run.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I know Temple is in the top 5

Based on what? Based on what the school tells you? There aren't any rankings, and everybody has their own opinions.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I think doing your own lab work is a plus in the long run.

And also a huge pain in the ass, in my opinion. I think students should be profiecient and knowledgable about lab work, but in most practice situations you are going to send you stuff out to the lab anyway, so why overly burden yourself with it during school?

 

[busdriver]

i might be answering blindly, but from what i've HEARD (you can do your own research on the schools though), UOP and Loma Linda are great clinical schools. People always tell me, "if you wanna be a GP, go to UOP or Loma Linda." Plus i heard UOP treats their students REALLY well...

 

[ILikeTeeth]

i might be answering blindly, but from what i've HEARD (you can do your own research on the schools though), UOP and Loma Linda are great clinical schools. People always tell me, "if you wanna be a GP, go to UOP or Loma Linda." Plus i heard UOP treats their students REALLY well...

Are you applying to dental school?

So far I have heard that Tufts and OSU are good in terms of clinical training. Any otheres out there???

Thank you,

 

[Reed1978]

University at Buffalo is an excellent school for clinical training - however, as a state school it may be harder to get into if you are not from New York. Case Western is also really good - and their facilities are quite nice (also small class size is a plus). Temple (I have heard) is up there too.

I do think that all accredited dental schools will prepare you for a career in dentistry, but just attending class doesn't guarantee a good education (this actually of course goes without saying doesn't it?). I think to a large extend the practitioner that you become is going to be dictated by several factors including your goal orientations, motivation, and intensity towards becoming a competent health care provider.

As far as specifics at Tufts (waxups and labwork), I'm not sure. The patient pool at Tufts (as well as BU) are quite substantial however. Boston is a large (small) city, and the "campus" is located right off of the T - which affords easy access to the clinics by many of its patients (whereas a school like U Conn - someone correct me if I'm wrong, is not as easily accessible to patients).

 

[gryffindor]

Has anyone actually thought about the lab work. Meaning some schools have there students do the lab work (Temple) while other schools have the lab work sent out (UPenn) and have a dental lab do the work. I think the Temple way is better, even though in the real world you will have it sent out, but this way you know what goes into it. If there is a problem and you are a Temple grad you are more likely to correct the problem rather then take measurements and send it back to the lab, this takes time, the patient is not happy, and you don't get paid. The students that I have talked to at Temple hate the lab, but its like a love hate relationship, you hate it now but love it in the long run, any thoughts???

Yeah, there is a reason why the students at Temple hate the lab. It sounds like a great idea as a pre-dent, to do all your labwork and learn so much from it. Truth is, you will learn how to do all that labwork and actually do the labwork on mannequins in your first and second year in dental school. If your school has a strong pre-clinical program, you will learn enough to understand what the lab technicians do and where errors can happen before you get to the clinics in third year. In the scenario you give, if there is a problem with the labwork (say the margin of the crown is open), the Temple grad and non-Temple grad are both going to do the same thing - send it back and tell the lab to make a new crown. It is not worth the Temple dentist's time to go through all the tedious steps to correct this problem even though he slaved away in dental school doing it.

Come third year at Temple, you will be cursing the labwork and wishing you could go home and study for your exam or watch reruns of Friends instead. No dentist out there waxes up his own crowns, they all take an impression and send it to the lab where the lab will pour the models, mount and ditch the dies, wax up the crown, cast it (turn the wax into metal, a scary process), polish, and send it back ready to cement in the patient's mouth. Sound like a lot of work? Yes, it is a lot of work. When you are in third year in Temple and pouring your impressions and mounting them and waxing up crowns which you then subsequently have to cast and polish, and if something goes wrong you are back at square one, you will definitely be cursing the labwork and hating it too. Why does Temple do this? $$$$$. They save tons of $$$ by making the student slave at all these steps instead of having the lab do it.

Some schools will have you take the impression and send it to the lab to do everything. Others make you do some of the work, like my school, Univ. at Buffalo, made us pour the models & ditch the dies and then send it to the lab. It was annoying,but it wasn't so bad b/c the model making part of the process isn't so aggravating and is simple to re-do if you mess it up. And then there are the schools at the other end of the spectrum like Temple where the student has to do everything (I feel bad for them). Baylor is another school where I've heard students have to do all of the labwork for a patient much like Temple (like wax & cast their own crowns, correct me if I'm incorrect).

Labwork aside, you will probably still get a good clinical education at Temple. But if you have a choice when the acceptances come, I would go to a good clinical school that isn't so labwork intensive in the third and fourth years. It will save you a lot of grief and you'll get some sleep. I will stand up for my alma mater, Univ. at Buffalo, and say I got a very good clinical and didactic education there, which is now very apparent to me in my residency where I am in with students from other dental schools. However, I did not learn everything and I am certain that no matter what dental school you attend, you will only learn the basics and maybe a little more. You will have to spend your time after graduation, either in a residency or a private practice with a good mentor, learning a lot more to become an efficient clinician.

 

[jheidenr]

i might be answering blindly, but from what i've HEARD (you can do your own research on the schools though), UOP and Loma Linda are great clinical schools. People always tell me, "if you wanna be a GP, go to UOP or Loma Linda." Plus i heard UOP treats their students REALLY well...

ditto to that on Loma Linda. I've heard from several dentists that some of the finest work they've seem come out to Loma Linda. I was a little suprised to hear that.

 

[Gutta Percha]

I have to say UOP (my alma mater) is great for clinic. Stay away from east coast schools. I went thru a large AEGD that I later left b/c it sucked with students from tufs, boston, nyu and nova. They had no idea what was going on. Oregon is good, wash is good except I've heard the instructors are PITA's. My friends from USC say stay away unless you want to do GA (due to malamed) b/c the PBL sucks.

 

[UBTom]

to the Original Poster:

You need to decide for yourself of course, but here are some questions to ask:

1) Size of patient pool? The larger a patient pool at a school, the more variety of cases you will encounter. I respect Gutta Percha's opinion, but I disagree with him on east coast schools-- Some have HUGE patient pools that will give you lots of exposure like NYU and Temple.

2) Exposure to different disciplines? As aforementioned, some schools do not have certain specialty programs in-house, which means there are less instructors in that discipline to show you stuff.

3) Area hospitals? You will be doing a lot of work in various disciplines in area hospitals such as OMFS and Pedo. Again, it's hard to beat large-city schools like NYU, Tufts, BU or Temple in this regard.

4) Curriculum workload? When does a dental school start comprehensive care clinic? NYU for example starts comp care clinic in the Spring of 2nd year, which is VERY good. They also don't load you down with labwork that you won't do as a real dentist, but that can be good or bad-- Good because you see more patients instead of spending time on labwork, bad because you need to learn how good and bad labwork looks like.

And finally, how much clinical experience you get is also UP TO YOU. You can get lots of clinical experience at large-city schools if you are willing to work at it and learn during your upperclassman years, no matter if you went to UOP, NYU, Tufts, etc.

HTH.

 

[ShawnOne]

to the OP: USC has been known to be a strong clinical school. Wanna talk about patient pool? Just look at USC's location. They have all the specialties in-house and USC's faculty is great.

Gutta: I dont know why your friends think PBL sucks, but just for the record, the clinical learning at USC has not changed since the inception of PBL.

 

[Mo007]

I have to say UOP (my alma mater) is great for clinic. Stay away from east coast schools. I went thru a large AEGD that I later left b/c it sucked with students from tufs, boston, nyu and nova. They had no idea what was going on. Oregon is good, wash is good except I've heard the instructors are PITA's. My friends from USC say stay away unless you want to do GA (due to malamed) b/c the PBL sucks.

I know many of you don't agree with this statement. The words "Stay-Away!" doesn't exist in dental schools vocabulary. Just like UBTom said, a lot of factors determine which schools fits your preferences. If you have never been to EAST coast schools, and your friends tell you that they are experts in ranking schools... I would say you are taking a big leap in the wrong direction.

Bottom line is, anyone can turn out to be a great Dentist, if you put your mind to it - with good hands ofcourse.

🙂

 

[HBomb]

We should have a Gutta Percha roast!!!...though GP's other 5 posts seemed okay. This post certainly stunk.

 

[ILikeTeeth]

to the Original Poster:

You need to decide for yourself of course, but here are some questions to ask:

1) Size of patient pool? The larger a patient pool at a school, the more variety of cases you will encounter. I respect Gutta Percha's opinion, but I disagree with him on east coast schools-- Some have HUGE patient pools that will give you lots of exposure like NYU and Temple.

2) Exposure to different disciplines? As aforementioned, some schools do not have certain specialty programs in-house, which means there are less instructors in that discipline to show you stuff.

3) Area hospitals? You will be doing a lot of work in various disciplines in area hospitals such as OMFS and Pedo. Again, it's hard to beat large-city schools like NYU, Tufts, BU or Temple in this regard.

4) Curriculum workload? When does a dental school start comprehensive care clinic? NYU for example starts comp care clinic in the Spring of 2nd year, which is VERY good. They also don't load you down with labwork that you won't do as a real dentist, but that can be good or bad-- Good because you see more patients instead of spending time on labwork, bad because you need to learn how good and bad labwork looks like.

And finally, how much clinical experience you get is also UP TO YOU. You can get lots of clinical experience at large-city schools if you are willing to work at it and learn during your upperclassman years, no matter if you went to UOP, NYU, Tufts, etc.

HTH.

Hello,

Thank you. I understand that I should go to a school that fits me. At the same time I want to get lots and lots of practice. I have a freind that goes to Temple, just graduated. He has done a lot more then his freinds at other dental schools. From what I have read, talked to people, etc.. I am thinking that Temple, NYU and Tufts are probably 3 of the best school in terms of clincal training? Let's not forget abotu USC. But I am not a big fan of PBL, I know USC and Harvard have taken this approach. But I am not a big fan. So can someone agree or disagree on Temple, Tufts, and NYU? Thank you

 

[Rocky21]

Temple, Tufts and NYU are all good clinical schools. But NYU is better, jk🙂

 

[Mr.E]

Sorry for the lame question, but what is PBL?

 

[Reed1978]

Problem Based Learning

 

[grtuck]

Of course I am biased, but I really like UNC-Chapel Hill. They always tell us their focus is on clinical aspects (how would I know if they are lying). We start seeing patients in our first year for cleanings, then first semester of second year we start doing restorative and later that year we do fixed and removable pros and ortho. We can start endo and oral sugery during our 3rd year.

But, your clinical skills will mostly come from your effort, practice, and patience.

grtuck

 

[bigeyeballs]

And what are the features of this approach (PBL)??

 

[ShawnOne]

try running a search on "PBL". Lots of info had been posted in the past.

 

[HuyetKiem]

Case Western Rule !

We will have 2 weeks after the first semester of first year to do exam and sealant at the local schools.

 

[decaydigger]

Best of luck with your d-school applications. I figure I'll add my opinion too. I have been practicing since 2000 (UF grad) and I can honestly tell you that any of the schoosl listed will provide you with a sound foundation for clinical dentistry, even Harvard. I was in the Navy for the past 4 years and have practiced with recent grads (less than 5 yrs out) from Michigan, Tufts, USC, BU, Loma Linda, UOP, UCSF, Creighton, Colorado, Louisville, and more. All of our clinical knowledge is pretty much the same. Sure you may do more root canals at Creighton versus Michigan, but no experience in dental school can compare to your first years out in practice. That's where the "real clinical training" begins. I did 9 root canals in dental school, I've done hundreds since then (post removals, retreat, you name it)! Some of these guys have moonlighted on the outside and have all done fine.

Don't get too caught up on which school will provide you with the "best cliincal training." That is very subjective. Sure, I have heard good things about UOP and Tufts, but they come at a huge cost $$$$$. At least you can finish in 3 yrs at UOP. Public schools are just fine and if there's one in the state you live in it could be much cheaper. Consider the cost (if your paying your own way), where you want to wind up practicing (going to school in NYU maybe fun, but it doesn't prepare you for taking CA boards). These are other considerations too. JMHO.

Remember your "clinical training" only begins when you graduate dental school. The best clinicians are always learning from mentors, continuing education courses (100's of hours/yr), residencies, study clubs, visiting other dentists, etc.


Best of luck.

Alan

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Oh yah!! BadVibes is back baby! Cuba was great, but like the US, it runs its country on extreme ideology and thus like the US is a country full of contradictions. Both countries make me sick....Anyways, its nice to finally be back home, but gotta leave in a few days for Temple orientation.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Based on what? Based on what the school tells you? There aren't any rankings, and everybody has their own opinions.

Gavin is right, there arent any rankings...but if you were gonna rank in terms of patient pool, NYU is #1 and next is Temple and USC, but I dont rememer the order....

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Yeah, there is a reason why the students at Temple hate the lab. It sounds like a great idea as a pre-dent, to do all your labwork and learn so much from it. Truth is, you will learn how to do all that labwork and actually do the labwork on mannequins in your first and second year in dental school. If your school has a strong pre-clinical program, you will learn enough to understand what the lab technicians do and where errors can happen before you get to the clinics in third year. In the scenario you give, if there is a problem with the labwork (say the margin of the crown is open), the Temple grad and non-Temple grad are both going to do the same thing - send it back and tell the lab to make a new crown. It is not worth the Temple dentist's time to go through all the tedious steps to correct this problem even though he slaved away in dental school doing it.

Come third year at Temple, you will be cursing the labwork and wishing you could go home and study for your exam or watch reruns of Friends instead. No dentist out there waxes up his own crowns, they all take an impression and send it to the lab where the lab will pour the models, mount and ditch the dies, wax up the crown, cast it (turn the wax into metal, a scary process), polish, and send it back ready to cement in the patient's mouth. Sound like a lot of work? Yes, it is a lot of work. When you are in third year in Temple and pouring your impressions and mounting them and waxing up crowns which you then subsequently have to cast and polish, and if something goes wrong you are back at square one, you will definitely be cursing the labwork and hating it too. Why does Temple do this? $$$$$. They save tons of $$$ by making the student slave at all these steps instead of having the lab do it.

Excellent post Griffin...doing lab work at Temple sucks.....plain and simple. Sure it would be great to be an expert in lab work, but does it really take 4 years for that? And why do they make their students do that? Griffin is right on...MONEY! Temple is being cheap and slaving their students as a result and if they tell you otherwise, they are definitely lying.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Don't get too caught up on which school will provide you with the "best cliincal training." That is very subjective. Sure, I have heard good things about UOP and Tufts, but they come at a huge cost $$$$$. At least you can finish in 3 yrs at UOP. Public schools are just fine and if there's one in the state you live in it could be much cheaper. Consider the cost (if your paying your own way), where you want to wind up practicing (going to school in NYU maybe fun, but it doesn't prepare you for taking CA boards). These are other considerations too. JMHO.

Remember your "clinical training" only begins when you graduate dental school. The best clinicians are always learning from mentors, continuing education courses (100's of hours/yr), residencies, study clubs, visiting other dentists, etc.


Best of luck.

Alan

Good post Alan...going to a cheap school is also key. But why not trying to combine the two if you can, right? Im going to a very strong clinical school, and only payin $26,000/year tuition...much lower than many schools out there...

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

And to the OP who was askin for exact clinical requirements....I dont know th exact requirements at Temple, but Ill try to get for you when I go down later this week....

But this is from a Temple grad from 2000:

I graduated having done 37 units of fixed, 10 sets of full dentures, 5 sets of partials, well over 300 extractions, 3 anterior, 5 premolar, and 6 molar endo, as well as 3 perio surgeries and numerous quad scalings.