What are the competitive residencies DOs apply to?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

surgeon_hopeful

New Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
110
Reaction score
0
What are the most prestigious (in terms of salary)/competitive DO specific residencies? I know many of them apply to MD residencies i.e. surgery, etc., but what are the popular ones for DOs? Also, are the DO residencies very lucrative?

Sorry to sound superficial, but I'm jw.
 
What are the most prestigious (in terms of salary)/competitive DO specific residencies? I know many of them apply to MD residencies i.e. surgery, etc., but what are the popular ones for DOs? Also, are the DO residencies very lucrative?

Sorry to sound superficial, but I'm jw.

Are you for real?




<---speechless
 
After I gathered myself together from the initial site of the op's question, the answer is to become a trustee of a "for-profit school". That must be the most lucrative position in medicine currently MD or DO.
 
What are the most prestigious (in terms of salary)/competitive DO specific residencies? I know many of them apply to MD residencies i.e. surgery, etc., but what are the popular ones for DOs? Also, are the DO residencies very lucrative?

Sorry to sound superficial, but I'm jw.

For your post history, I can infer that you're still in high school. Slow down. Go to college first. You don't need to be worrying about this at all.
 
For your post history, I can infer that you're still in high school. Slow down. Go to college first. You don't need to be worrying about this at all.

I second this, seriously, you're going to burn yourself out before you're even out of undergrad.

Chill 😉
 
Are you for real?




<---speechless

HAHAHA, same here.

Last time I checked, there are no lucrative DO or MD residencies. ~$45,000 for 80 hours a week for 1 year = $10.81 per hour.

If that's lucrative lucrative to you, may I suggest you avoid the debt and time sacrifice that it takes and start working at McDonald's. I'm sure you'll make Assistant Manager in no time, and probably be making more than any of the "lucrative residencies," in no time.
 
OK, scratch the lucrative thing...what ones are the most competitive?
 
OK, scratch the lucrative thing...what ones are the most competitive?


Family Medicine anywhere in Montana or Iowa.

or

Psych in ALaska. The Eskimos are really depressed w/ all the melting of the ice and by extension their way of life.
 
OK, scratch the lucrative thing...what ones are the most competitive?

If the MD version is competitive, so is the DO version (with far fewer spots, so maybe even moreso). So if dermatology (MD) is hard, so is osteopathic dermatology.

I'm not sure what you meant by prestigious. Getting a GI fellowship takes lots of smarts and hard work, so it's certainly uber-competitive, but I wouldn't classify scoping someone's anus as prestigious. Or prescribing ED meds and treating UTIs, but that doesn't stop Urology from being really competitive.
 
wow, this is definitely going to make me look like an r-****, but there are DO versions for every type of MD residency? So like there is a DO general surgery? How are these DO versions any different from the MD versions? Do they focus on the natural healing power of the body that DO schools emphasize or something?
 
wow, this is definitely going to make me look like an r-****, but there are DO versions for every type of MD residency? So like there is a DO general surgery? How are these DO versions any different from the MD versions? Do they focus on the natural healing power of the body that DO schools emphasize or something?


I would recommend some initiatives on your part and do some background research if you are remotely interested in any competitive or prestigous specialty/programs (whether allopathic or osteopathic)

A good place to start would be the FAQ threads in this and the pre-osteopathic section.

The AOA's website along with the AACOM's website are also good sites.

Also, the search option along the top menu bar is a great tool ... unlocking the vast sum of knowledge that SDN can provide. Chances are that your questions can be answered by doing a search.
 
What are the most prestigious (in terms of salary)/competitive DO specific residencies? I know many of them apply to MD residencies i.e. surgery, etc., but what are the popular ones for DOs? Also, are the DO residencies very lucrative?

Sorry to sound superficial, but I'm jw.

specialties pay the same, regardless of your degree

this is a simple concept that shows me you need to do quite a bit more research on the similarities between the MD and DO degree
 
wow, this is definitely going to make me look like an r-****, but there are DO versions for every type of MD residency? So like there is a DO general surgery? How are these DO versions any different from the MD versions? Do they focus on the natural healing power of the body that DO schools emphasize or something?

try google

look up --> you can even search SDN Forums with Google!
 
wow, this is definitely going to make me look like an r-****, but there are DO versions for every type of MD residency? So like there is a DO general surgery? How are these DO versions any different from the MD versions? Do they focus on the natural healing power of the body that DO schools emphasize or something?

Your questions may be best answered by googling or yellow-paging:

Surgeon, DO in your region of the country.

Then ask if you can shadow/do a clinical rotation.

Then ask yourself all the questions you just presented.​
 
Rural Family Medicine in Western Nebraska.......you gotta be hot $hit to get accepted.
 
Don't bother with Family Medicine in W. Nebraska... they screen for AOA, so DO apps are canned by default.
 
Family Medicine anywhere in Montana or Iowa.

or

Psych in ALaska. The Eskimos are really depressed w/ all the melting of the ice and by extension their way of life.

not to mention the seasonal affective disorder:laugh:

To the poster. A lot of what you want to know is very subjective. But if that is what you want, look it up. Just remember, that doesn't mean you will get the best training, just that the medical centers, meet the specific criteria the ranking is looking for.
 
wow, this is definitely going to make me look like an r-****, but there are DO versions for every type of MD residency? So like there is a DO general surgery? How are these DO versions any different from the MD versions? Do they focus on the natural healing power of the body that DO schools emphasize or something?
Yes, you do sound like a ******😀

No, the DO surgery residencies are just surgical residencies that only DOs can do. MDs cannot go into them. DOs can get into ACGME residencies (affiliated with MD medical schools). DO surgery residencies are there for DOs to do. They came about during a time when the only surgery residency DOs were able to do was with there own affiliated programs. Now, if you do well, you can do surgery in an ACGME surgical residency. General Surgery is not as hard to get into as it used to be. Specialty surgery competetiveness depends on that particular specialty or sub-specialty.

You really need to do some reading and researching on your own about this. If you can't do that now, how are you going to do well enough in college to get into medical school.

The hardest thing about becoming a doctor admissions wise is getting into a medical school whether it be MD or DO. The hardest thing to becoming a doctor is residency. Nothing compares. Medical school and pre-med are a cake compared to residency where you have real responsibility for peoples lives. By the way, if you are going into medicine now for money, don't. Sure, we make more money than the average Joe, but with the amount of energy and time we put into it, we could do better in some other fields now. There are specialties that are exceptions, but you aren't guaranteed that you are going to get into that field. Look at anesthesiology. Its getting hard to get into, and years ago they were begging for people.
You should go into medicine if you truly like it. Also liking to take care of people would be a big plus in my book.

Pre-meds just don't have any real clue what they are getting into. Make sure you really look into what its really like to be a physician.
 
HAHAHA, same here.

Last time I checked, there are no lucrative DO or MD residencies. ~$45,000 for 80 hours a week for 1 year = $10.81 per hour.

If that's lucrative lucrative to you, may I suggest you avoid the debt and time sacrifice that it takes and start working at McDonald's. I'm sure you'll make Assistant Manager in no time, and probably be making more than any of the "lucrative residencies," in no time.


Good god I make more than that right now ...

(plugs ears, humms, and ignores this factor as studies molecular biology at 3am)
 
HAHAHA, same here.

Last time I checked, there are no lucrative DO or MD residencies. ~$45,000 for 80 hours a week for 1 year = $10.81 per hour.

If that's lucrative lucrative to you, may I suggest you avoid the debt and time sacrifice that it takes and start working at McDonald's. I'm sure you'll make Assistant Manager in no time, and probably be making more than any of the "lucrative residencies," in no time.

Waitaminute... McDonald's pays more than $10.81 an hour?!

Man, I am in the wrong profession.
 
Yes, you do sound like a ******😀

No, the DO surgery residencies are just surgical residencies that only DOs can do. MDs cannot go into them. DOs can get into ACGME residencies (affiliated with MD medical schools). DO surgery residencies are there for DOs to do. They came about during a time when the only surgery residency DOs were able to do was with there own affiliated programs. Now, if you do well, you can do surgery in an ACGME surgical residency. General Surgery is not as hard to get into as it used to be. Specialty surgery competetiveness depends on that particular specialty or sub-specialty.

You really need to do some reading and researching on your own about this. If you can't do that now, how are you going to do well enough in college to get into medical school.

The hardest thing about becoming a doctor admissions wise is getting into a medical school whether it be MD or DO. The hardest thing to becoming a doctor is residency. Nothing compares. Medical school and pre-med are a cake compared to residency where you have real responsibility for peoples lives. By the way, if you are going into medicine now for money, don't. Sure, we make more money than the average Joe, but with the amount of energy and time we put into it, we could do better in some other fields now. There are specialties that are exceptions, but you aren't guaranteed that you are going to get into that field. Look at anesthesiology. Its getting hard to get into, and years ago they were begging for people.
You should go into medicine if you truly like it. Also liking to take care of people would be a big plus in my book.

Pre-meds just don't have any real clue what they are getting into. Make sure you really look into what its really like to be a physician.

Thanks for the reply irish. I actually did do a little research on that and figured that out, but thanks for vindicating my findings. I have another question though that I can't find anywhere though. Why is it that people are so against going DO if they have the exact same residencies available to them and more (they have the allopathic residencies, the DO versions of every residency, and a few DO-specific residencies), and instead pursue a carribean or other international degree instead of applying DO if they don't get into allopathic? Honestly, is there THAT big of an advantage if you get an allopathic vs osteopathic degree that it's worth becoming an IMG and having a hard time securing a residency due to IMG bias just so that you can have MD instead of DO on your office wall?
 
Thanks for the reply irish. I actually did do a little research on that and figured that out, but thanks for vindicating my findings. I have another question though that I can't find anywhere though. Why is it that people are so against going DO if they have the exact same residencies available to them and more (they have the allopathic residencies, the DO versions of every residency, and a few DO-specific residencies), and instead pursue a carribean or other international degree instead of applying DO if they don't get into allopathic? Honestly, is there THAT big of an advantage if you get an allopathic vs osteopathic degree that it's worth becoming an IMG and having a hard time securing a residency due to IMG bias just so that you can have MD instead of DO on your office wall?

No, honestly I think that you would be foolish to go to a Caribbean school now instead of getting a D.O. degree. If you become a D.O. and take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX, do well, not very many programs are going to "discriminate" against your D.O. degree. And the ones that will, will "discriminate" against the M.D. from the Caribbean as well anyway. Yes, you may be asked more about your D.O. degree from patients some day than if you have a Caribbean M.D., but those are things you just have to deal with. A D.O. has to take this opportunity to educate the public that there are two types of physicians that are licensed to practice medicine in the U.S.

I have nothing against the Caribbean route either as long as you have exhausted all of your possibilities in the states. Some of the schools are very good, some are not. You have to do your research. If you go this route, you too can make it. You must score well on your USMLEs and apply widely. I have a friend who went to St. George's and she is an anesthesiologist making over $300,000 a year. She got into anesth when it was easier to get into. Not too many Caribbean grads get into good anesth programs now. And the ones that do went to the better Caribbean schools, and did well on the boards.

I have seen a trend in residencies in the last 3 or 4 years, where I see more D.O.s successfully enter competitive residencies than I see Caribbean M.D.s Check programs web sites that list their residents, and you will see what I mean.

However, I will state, and this is not to talk bad about the D.O. degree, that it is much easier still to get into a competitive residency (ACGME) with an M.D. degree. If there is an M.D. applying for these programs with equivalent boards, and credentials, personality, and work ethic, etc as a D.O. I still think the program will still take the M.D. I am not saying that is right, but I think it is still that way. Also, most programs have changed and will take a D.O. before they take a Caribbean grad. Look at it this way. Who do you think they will be more "proud of" when they show off their resident list in a superficial way. Once again, don't flame me, as I have absolutely no problem with the M.D., D.O., or Carribean M.D. degree. It is up to the individual and the individual programs to decide. At the end of the day, all will be physicians if the complete their requirements, and will work together during residency and in life.
 
Great post, Irish. You've basically confirmed what all of us have speculated is true for a while now. Thanks.

[Note: this could be construed as sarcastic sounding, but I swear it's not :laugh:]
 
I'm still a bit unclear about something though (btw, thanks for the help irish...you're curing my ******ation lol). If I want to do a residency that is extremely competitive to get into as an allopathic resident, then would it maybe be smart to go DO so that I have two chances at basically the same thing? For example, if I want to do orthopedic surgery (which I hear is really tough to get into), could going DO over allopath be a good idea perhaps so that I can apply to the allopathic, as well as the osteopathic versions of it? Also, again, I'm not calling ANYONE an idiot, but since DO contains a fair amount of people that didn't get into an allopathic school, wouldn't this in a way be a good thing, because there is less competition to get the orthopedic surgery version in osteopathy?

Once again, I want to make it very clear that I'm not saying anyone of you are dumb or that you're med school rejects. Perhaps you didn't do well on the MCAT, but had a killer GPA. Trust me, I completely understand that numbers (GPA and MCAT score) do not corrolate 100% with intelligence, so please don't flame me for calling you guys stupid.
 
I'm still a bit unclear about something though (btw, thanks for the help irish...you're curing my ******ation lol). If I want to do a residency that is extremely competitive to get into as an allopathic resident, then would it maybe be smart to go DO so that I have two chances at basically the same thing? For example, if I want to do orthopedic surgery (which I hear is really tough to get into), could going DO over allopath be a good idea perhaps so that I can apply to the allopathic, as well as the osteopathic versions of it? Also, again, I'm not calling ANYONE an idiot, but since DO contains a fair amount of people that didn't get into an allopathic school, wouldn't this in a way be a good thing, because there is less competition to get the orthopedic surgery version in osteopathy?

Once again, I want to make it very clear that I'm not saying anyone of you are dumb or that you're med school rejects. Perhaps you didn't do well on the MCAT, but had a killer GPA. Trust me, I completely understand that numbers (GPA and MCAT score) do not corrolate 100% with intelligence, so please don't flame me for calling you guys stupid.

That would be a really silly reason to go osteopathic. Also, in certain specialties if you match in an osteopathic spot, it automatically kicks you out of the allopathic system, so you can't get an allopathic spot. It's not like you get two chances to match. When you get to the point of applying and interviewing, you will see that osteopathic vs allopathic is not as important as finding the school where you can feel more comfortable. Some people choose DO over MD you know. Allopathic schools did not treat me as well as osteopathic schools in my interviews which resulted in a complete reversal of my opinions on where I thought I should be. I don't regret my decision.

Btw. I intend to do an allopathic neurosurgery residency. There are osteopathic neurosurgery residencies, but I don't like any of their locations (Michigan, yuck).
 
That would be a really silly reason to go osteopathic. Also, in certain specialties if you match in an osteopathic spot, it automatically kicks you out of the allopathic system, so you can't get an allopathic spot. It's not like you get two chances to match. When you get to the point of applying and interviewing, you will see that osteopathic vs allopathic is not as important as finding the school where you can feel more comfortable. Some people choose DO over MD you know. Allopathic schools did not treat me as well as osteopathic schools in my interviews which resulted in a complete reversal of my opinions on where I thought I should be. I don't regret my decision.

Btw. I intend to do an allopathic neurosurgery residency. There are osteopathic neurosurgery residencies, but I don't like any of their locations (Michigan, yuck).

Well, what's wrong with not getting an allopathic spot? I keep hearing that a DO receives the same training as an MD, so what's wrong with getting a DO residency in Ortho rather than MD residency in Ortho? Do they make less money or something? Personally, if I get to be an orthopedic surgeon, I don't really care how much money I make, because even if my salary were reduced due to having a DO versus an MD residency in Ortho, I'd still be making a great salary (I doubt it will drop this low, but I'm guessing I'd still be making within 175-200k), and doing something that I would love, so if the only problems in not getting an allo residency is reduced opportunity for salary, then I don't really care. Is there some other reason why getting an allo residency is such a big deal? Are DO programs known for being bad or something?
 
Well, what's wrong with not getting an allopathic spot? I keep hearing that a DO receives the same training as an MD, so what's wrong with getting a DO residency in Ortho rather than MD residency in Ortho? Do they make less money or something? Personally, if I get to be an orthopedic surgeon, I don't really care how much money I make, because even if my salary were reduced due to having a DO versus an MD residency in Ortho, I'd still be making a great salary (I doubt it will drop this low, but I'm guessing I'd still be making within 175-200k), and doing something that I would love, so if the only problems in not getting an allo residency is reduced opportunity for salary, then I don't really care. Is there some other reason why getting an allo residency is such a big deal? Are DO programs known for being bad or something?

It just depends on the specialty. There are simply quite a few more allopathic residencies in better locations. I'd do a DO residency if they had a neurosurgery residency in the Southeast, but they don't. Salary is not even really something that should matter. Pay is based on what you do and where you work, not the two letters after your name.
 
It just depends on the specialty. There are simply quite a few more allopathic residencies in better locations. I'd do a DO residency if they had a neurosurgery residency in the Southeast, but they don't. Salary is not even really something that should matter. Pay is based on what you do and where you work, not the two letters after your name.

OK, so basically what you're saying is that for residency, you'll probably end up in a place you'd rather be if you get an allopathic than osteopathic residence right? But wouldn't you agree that if location had absolutely no factor whatsoever on where a person goes, that perhaps it might be better to go DO since you have a chance at the MD residencies and DO residencies, since I'm assuming both will train you well enough? Obviously, location will play at least some role, but if becoming an orthopedic surgeon is all you care about, could it then be smarter to go the DO route so that you have a greater chance of accomplishing it because of the presence of DO-only residencies that are of equal quality?

btw, I'm emphasizing the equal quality part to make sure that I understand that in the medical community, you aren't looked down upon for going to a DO version of a residency than MD version, not because I like being redundant in my writing 😀
 
Well, what's wrong with not getting an allopathic spot? I keep hearing that a DO receives the same training as an MD, so what's wrong with getting a DO residency in Ortho rather than MD residency in Ortho? Do they make less money or something? Personally, if I get to be an orthopedic surgeon, I don't really care how much money I make, because even if my salary were reduced due to having a DO versus an MD residency in Ortho, I'd still be making a great salary (I doubt it will drop this low, but I'm guessing I'd still be making within 175-200k), and doing something that I would love, so if the only problems in not getting an allo residency is reduced opportunity for salary, then I don't really care. Is there some other reason why getting an allo residency is such a big deal? Are DO programs known for being bad or something?

You seem a little naive about the whole MD vs DO atmosphere that exists in the medical field. There are numerous threads that address this in SDN, so you might want to surf the forums a bit more. In the meantime, just some clarification.

1) DO and MD's make the same salary for a given specialty.
2) There are far more allopathic residencies than osteopathic residencies.
3) Some allopathic residency directors (particularly in the coastlines) are biased against DO graduates, hence going the DO route may ultimately decrease the total number of residencies you are realistically likely to match with.
4) Osteopathic residencies are technically equivalent to allopathic residencies, but what happens after? You are going to join everyone else in applying for a job at a hospital or a group practice. Again with the bias issue. Some hospitals/groups simply would prefer an MD (or, more likely, would prefer someone that completed a residency at a better recognized training facility... a facility which rarely trains DO graduates... Johns Hopkins and Harvard/Mass General, for example).
5) DO residencies aren't known for being "bad" per se, as much as they're known for not doing much research. In terms of stature in a field, this can mean everything to a residency (lots of publications translates into lots of grant money from NIH... which means more money pushed into a program for better facilities/faculty/etc). Now, of course, not all allopathic residencies necessarily immerse themselves in research (most don't), but pretty much all of the top residencies have a considerable amount of exposure to research/publications in the course of their training. This is one of the reasons why some students take a year off to do research between MS3 and MS4 (in addition to pursuing an MD/PhD)... to be more competitive with regard to matching at a name-brand university program.
 
I agree with most Terpskins99 has already said. I just disagree with the following point:

.
4) Osteopathic residencies are technically equivalent to allopathic residencies, but what happens after? You are going to join everyone else in applying for a job at a hospital or a group practice. Again with the bias issue. Some hospitals/groups simply would prefer an MD (or, more likely, would prefer someone that completed a residency at a better recognized training facility... a facility which rarely trains DO graduates... Johns Hopkins and Harvard/Mass General, for example).


There's already in place, legislation to protect against discrimination towards DOs at the state level. Hospitals face [and a few offenders have in the past] faced court time for discriminating. So labor discrimination by hospitals towards DOs is for all intents and purposes not an issue. If you can prove you were not given a Job at a hospital because of your letters you have a case. I guess, It may happen you are nonetheless discriminated and you just never know about it - but there we are entering the waters of speculation as to wether it happens or not.


When it comes to private groups, then that is a whole other issue. It depends on how big the group is, etc. It may happen, I have never heard of it, but if they are indeed a small private practice then it may happen and current legislation may/may not help much.


And yes, you need to search most of these things...
 
I'm just glad that I got my uber-competitive FP spot as a lowly DO.

Competitive is as competitive does. If you don't live up to expectations then you're not competitive. Stop asking and go study if you wish to be more competitive. Or I accept bribes of store bought cookies to write LORs. [/quasi-sarcasm]
 
OK, so basically what you're saying is that for residency, you'll probably end up in a place you'd rather be if you get an allopathic than osteopathic residence right? But wouldn't you agree that if location had absolutely no factor whatsoever on where a person goes, that perhaps it might be better to go DO since you have a chance at the MD residencies and DO residencies, since I'm assuming both will train you well enough? Obviously, location will play at least some role, but if becoming an orthopedic surgeon is all you care about, could it then be smarter to go the DO route so that you have a greater chance of accomplishing it because of the presence of DO-only residencies that are of equal quality?

btw, I'm emphasizing the equal quality part to make sure that I understand that in the medical community, you aren't looked down upon for going to a DO version of a residency than MD version, not because I like being redundant in my writing 😀

You can't really leave location out. In Michigan, they love the DO's. In Alabama, not so much.
That said, yes, the residencies should be equal in quality.
 
Top