What are the stats of those who get rads interviews at MGH, BWH, UCSF, Yale?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
1

1stYearGunner

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
28
Reaction score
1
Points
4,581
  1. Medical Student
Members do not see this ad.
What step score should you have?
How many publications in journals should you have?

My friend scored a lot better than she thought on the step.

When do these top programs want to see the step 2 score?

If you could separate IR and DR I would really appreciate. Also if you have your own score, and where you matched, and where you interviewed, I would really appreciate.
 
1) Stats are lower at Yale
2) Wide variation. There are residents at the first three programs who come in with 0 publications and those who come in with an h-index of 12. There are residents who scored in the 230s and in the 270s.
 
I interviewed at MGH and Yale last year, but not at BWH and UCSF. It's true that Yale's threshold is lower. MGH cares a lot about research. MGH/UCSF care a lot about board scores. I don't know about BWH.
 
1stYearGunner said:
@Naijaba What did you have on the boards? Where did you end up?
Click to expand...

I wrote at length about my experience on my blog post: My experience applying to residency in Interventional Radiology (IR/DR)

Suffice to say, I got a 234 on Step I and a 230 on Step II. I worked as a software engineer all throughout medical school which limited my study time. I'm doing diagnostic radiology at the University of Washington. I love Seattle, it's the best lifestyle fit for me. I'll probably live here for the foreseeable future.
 
1stYearGunner said:
What step score should you have?
How many publications in journals should you have?

My friend scored a lot better than she thought on the step.

When do these top programs want to see the step 2 score?

If you could separate IR and DR I would really appreciate. Also if you have your own score, and where you matched, and where you interviewed, I would really appreciate.
Click to expand...

There are a multitude of factors to get interviews at top programs. Yale is solid but not in the same tier as the others. Step 1 is important, but having publications, AOA status, clinical honors, and what medical school you attend are equally important too. Coming from a top med school helps a lot, and the higher ranked your school, the more leeway in terms of having lower scores you have. There isn't any magic formula but the more of these you have checked off, the better your chances.

I interviewed at a few of those programs and matched at a top 10 DR program(won't name for anonymity sake). There was no IR/DR match when I applied. I had 250s/260s step 1/2, AOA, clinical honors mostly.
 
Last edited:
Personal experience--M4 applying this cycle, DR as well as IR integrated. Interview invites for IR and DR at MGH and Yale, waitlist for IR and DR at UCSF, silent reject from BWH. IR/DR invites at most top tier spots with the exception of 2 other rejects (Penn, Northwestern). Interviewing at like 20 programs because, well, IR.
~260 on step1/2
Top quartile of class but not AOA
Extensive research (prestigious fellowship, 6 pubs with several high impact, multiple book chapters, dozens of abstracts and presentations). Research was not in rads.
No away rotations, but did both IR and DR rotations at my home institution.
That's n=1 though, there's wide variation. People with lower scores get better interviews, people with better scores get screwed--there's definitely some element of luck, non-numeric aspects of your application, etc. As said above Yale will be easier to crack than the others up there. If you're doing IR, UCSF probably the toughest of the bunch as their DR and IR training are both very highly regarded; for DR, UCSF and MGH are basically the perennial top 2 so those will be your most difficult. Also, not that you said do, but don't think those 4 programs are head and shoulders above the rest. You'd probably be set up just as well doing residency at NYU, Stanford, UCLA, UMich, Wash U, UWash, Penn, JHU, Duke and a bunch of other places.
Also to echo @Naijaba--University of Washington is really, really, really awesome. Starting to actually get going on the trail a lot of his takes really resonate, he wrote a really good guide to the whole process.
Best of luck!
 
spruntable said:
Personal experience--M4 applying this cycle, DR as well as IR integrated. Interview invites for IR and DR at MGH and Yale, waitlist for IR and DR at UCSF, silent reject from BWH. IR/DR invites at most top tier spots with the exception of 2 other rejects (Penn, Northwestern). Interviewing at like 20 programs because, well, IR.
~260 on step1/2
Top quartile of class but not AOA
Extensive research (prestigious fellowship, 6 pubs with several high impact, multiple book chapters, dozens of abstracts and presentations). Research was not in rads.
No away rotations, but did both IR and DR rotations at my home institution.
That's n=1 though, there's wide variation. People with lower scores get better interviews, people with better scores get screwed--there's definitely some element of luck, non-numeric aspects of your application, etc. As said above Yale will be easier to crack than the others up there. If you're doing IR, UCSF probably the toughest of the bunch as their DR and IR training are both very highly regarded; for DR, UCSF and MGH are basically the perennial top 2 so those will be your most difficult. Also, not that you said do, but don't think those 4 programs are head and shoulders above the rest. You'd probably be set up just as well doing residency at NYU, Stanford, UCLA, UMich, Wash U, UWash, Penn, JHU, Duke and a bunch of other places.
Also to echo @Naijaba--University of Washington is really, really, really awesome. Starting to actually get going on the trail a lot of his takes really resonate, he wrote a really good guide to the whole process.
Best of luck!
Click to expand...

Just FYI that UCSF’s IR is not as strong as its name would suggest. Stanford is the big dog in the bay area.
 
DrfluffyMD said:
Just FYI that UCSF’s IR is not as strong as its name would suggest. Stanford is the big dog in the bay area.
Click to expand...
I've heard they turned over a bunch of faculty and were on the upswing, but yes Stanford is def the eatablished leader in the bay.
 
Thanks to all. If anyone has other stats, please post (and not only for these 4 programs).

Does anyone have a "list" of the top dogs in DR and IR?

What are the best programs for abdominal/chest/neurorads?
 
Name and prestige matter to a point. But 80% of rads did not graduate from those institutions and somehow there aren’t starving radiologists panhandling on the corners.

And in the world of IR, the big names aren’t always the best. But you have to speak to someone who knows what they’re talking about.
 
TCOM12 said:
Name and prestige matter to a point. But 80% of rads did not graduate from those institutions and somehow there aren’t starving radiologists panhandling on the corners.

And in the world of IR, the big names aren’t always the best. But you have to speak to someone who knows what they’re talking about.
Click to expand...

Yes naturally. I am talking from an academic standpoint, not for PP.
 
What are your thoughts on Beth Israel? On the doximity reputation list, it's even lower than Utah. How reliable is the reputation list? Is that the best list for someone who uniquely wants to get the best academic position/name for research in the future? Why are Mayo and UChicago so low?
 
1stYearGunner said:
What are your thoughts on Beth Israel? On the doximity reputation list, it's even lower than Utah. How reliable is the reputation list? Is that the best list for someone who uniquely wants to get the best academic position/name for research in the future? Why are Mayo and UChicago so low?
Click to expand...

Mayo is not low. It's 5th on the research output ranking. If recent Mayo alumnus Waleed Brinjikji is any indication, you can make an academic name for yourself at places other than MGH/MIR/UCSF/big names.
 
1stYearGunner said:
What are your thoughts on Beth Israel? On the doximity reputation list, it's even lower than Utah. How reliable is the reputation list? Is that the best list for someone who uniquely wants to get the best academic position/name for research in the future? Why are Mayo and UChicago so low?
Click to expand...

Ya it may be 'down there' on doximity, but it is exceptionally desirable from what I've heard.

Basically, in Boston there's MGH, BWH and then BI which is similar in that its 1) large program (~10 residents), 2) academic, 3) in longwood (like BWH), 4) Harvard affiliate, 5) high volume. BI is definitely more desirable to many applicants than MIR or Mayo.
Other Boston programs are BU and Tufts
Then Mt. Auburn - which is a great program, but definitely has a different feel since it is significantly smaller than above (3/yr) program at more of a community hospital than a tertiary referral center. You can also maybe put down Lahey Clinic too (again, smaller, less academic, not in the city).

No one wants to live in Rochester, MN. Who wants to wear a suit every day? I think this goes for any specialty.
 
masaraksh said:
Ya it may be 'down there' on doximity, but it is exceptionally desirable from what I've heard.

Basically, in Boston there's MGH, BWH and then BI which is similar in that its 1) large program (~10 residents), 2) academic, 3) in longwood (like BWH), 4) Harvard affiliate, 5) high volume. BI is definitely more desirable to many applicants than MIR or Mayo.
Other Boston programs are BU and Tufts
Then Mt. Auburn - which is a great program, but definitely has a different feel since it is significantly smaller than above (3/yr) program at more of a community hospital than a tertiary referral center. You can also maybe put down Lahey Clinic too (again, smaller, less academic, not in the city).

No one wants to live in Rochester, MN. Who wants to wear a suit every day? I think this goes for any specialty.
Click to expand...

lol I'll wear a suit every day before I pay 2k/mo for a one-bedroom apartment. To each their own.
 
TCOM12 said:
Name and prestige matter to a point. But 80% of rads did not graduate from those institutions and somehow there aren’t starving radiologists panhandling on the corners.

And in the world of IR, the big names aren’t always the best. But you have to speak to someone who knows what they’re talking about.
Click to expand...
Very true. There are some killer IR programs that don't live at "big name" institutions or "big name" DR programs. Chief among them are Mt Siani (NYC), Rush, MUSC, MCW, and U of I Peoria (plus obviously MCVI but they don't have a residency). These are very, very highly regarded IR fellowships and probably provide you better IR training than many of the big name institutions at which IR is trounced by vascular. BUT, and this is the most important caveat: 3 years of your 5 year IR residency are spent in DR. You want a program that does both well. People who went to these programs came in with top notch DR training; you will not. So make sure the place has good DR training as well as good IR training before you put it at the top of your rank list based on fellowship rankings. And the good DR programs align with the "big names" better than in IR. Does "fine" versus "great" DR training make a difference for an IR? Idk. Maybe it just boils down to seeing a few more zebras. I'm just a med stud wtf do I know. Bottom line, how much weight you place on DR vs IR training is up to you and your career aspirations, but I honestly don't know how well integrated IR residents coming out of big-time IR but no-name DR programs will fare going up for academic spots against people from the Penn/UW/UM/NU/UVA/Stanford axis or against people from the "big name DR [just not in IR]" tier. They could fare fine. Or they could not. Nobody really knows because no integrated IRs have graduated. Just food for thought. Personally my rank list is going to prioritize like a harmonic mean of DR and IR strength that penalizes being weak in either one, but that's just me.
 
What are people's thoughts on Johns Hopkins IR training? I don't hear about it on the forums as much as UVa, Rush, Michigan, Northwestern, etc.
 
1stYearGunner said:
What are your thoughts on Beth Israel? On the doximity reputation list, it's even lower than Utah. How reliable is the reputation list? Is that the best list for someone who uniquely wants to get the best academic position/name for research in the future? Why are Mayo and UChicago so low?
Click to expand...

I think it's important to remember how this reputation list is calculated - they send out anonymous surveys to all users asking for the "top 5" DR residencies in the country. Because of the methodology, I think that the list tends to be more accurate for the top 10 or so programs, and then loses validity as you go further down the list. At a certain point, you have to wonder whether the only difference between #40 and #70 is the size of the alumni base (since they may be voting for their own program regardless).
 
JaneDoe1 said:
What are people's thoughts on Johns Hopkins IR training? I don't hear about it on the forums as much as UVa, Rush, Michigan, Northwestern, etc.
Click to expand...

Hopkins has a very solid IR program along with a top notch DR program.

There's a pretty good review of different IR programs including hopkins on Minnie from last year's fellowship applicants.
 
Naijaba said:
I wrote at length about my experience on my blog post: My experience applying to residency in Interventional Radiology (IR/DR)

Suffice to say, I got a 234 on Step I and a 230 on Step II. I worked as a software engineer all throughout medical school which limited my study time. I'm doing diagnostic radiology at the University of Washington. I love Seattle, it's the best lifestyle fit for me. I'll probably live here for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

After going through this app cycle with a 250 and only one top 20 invite, feelsbadman.jpg
 
1stYearGunner said:
@GoPelicans What was your weakness? FMG? Red flag?
Click to expand...

US MD at a top 25, my 3rd year grades were exceedingly average and that's the only real 'ding' I thought my app had. This was the first year MSPE's broke down what % of the class got honors, pass, etc and I don't think that worked in my favor. Still surprised by the lack of love tho.
 
GoPelicans said:
US MD at a top 25, my 3rd year grades were exceedingly average and that's the only real 'ding' I thought my app had. This was the first year MSPE's broke down what % of the class got honors, pass, etc and I don't think that worked in my favor. Still surprised by the lack of love tho.
Click to expand...

Getting IVs at top tier programs is really random, even for those people that have amazing stats(250-260, AOA , all clinical honors, and research). Most people dont get IVs from all the top places they apply to either. Plus, seems like the competititon is stiff this year.
 
I don't know that it's so random as much as that applicants here and elsewhere place a disproportionate amount of importance on Step 1/2 scores then are surprised when that isn't enough to cover for the remainder of their application. It's perpetuated in threads like the WAMC thread stickied at top, where everyone seems to put their Step scores as the centerpiece of their application. A certain threshold score is necessary for a good application, but it isn't sufficient on its own. It has never been true that a Step 1 score of 250 was enough on its own to get you top 20 invites (I had the exact same score and don't think I got a single top 20 invite when I applied 4-5 years ago). And yet, people are still surprised, year after year. Radiology is tough to get into at the top levels. It isn't like other "mid-tier" competitive specialties like EM or anesthesiology where you can get top interviews even with pretty low scores.
 
qxrt said:
I don't know that it's so random as much as that applicants here and elsewhere place a disproportionate amount of importance on Step 1/2 scores then are surprised when that isn't enough to cover for the remainder of their application. It's perpetuated in threads like the WAMC thread stickied at top, where everyone seems to put their Step scores as the centerpiece of their application. A certain threshold score is necessary for a good application, but it isn't sufficient on its own. It has never been true that a Step 1 score of 250 was enough on its own to get you top 20 invites (I had the exact same score and don't think I got a single top 20 invite when I applied 4-5 years ago). And yet, people are still surprised, year after year. Radiology is tough to get into at the top levels. It isn't like other "mid-tier" competitive specialties like EM or anesthesiology where you can get top interviews even with pretty low scores.
Click to expand...

I agree step 1 isnt everything, hence why I mentioned AOA, research, and all clinical honors. My point was that even with a complete application, people dont get IVs at every top program they apply to, and which IVs you get can be a little random at times and may need a little luck.
For example, one may get MGH but not Stanford while another person will get Stanford and not MGH.

Anyways, i agree the competition, especially at the top, is incredibly tough.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

O
Are there any rads jobs that force daytime workers to work deep nights?
Replies
2
Views
1K
MadRadLad
M
B
BWH abdo fellowship
Replies
2
Views
2K
Arecko
A
M
Radiologists, at what point in training did you know you made the right (or even wrong) specialty choice?
Replies
18
Views
5K
hopefulraddaddypls
H
O
What fellowship would you recommend to someone who likes everything?
Replies
1
Views
2K
SpartanWolverine
SpartanWolverine
Steve_Zissou
The use of Midlevels in image interpretation
Replies
1
Views
1K
GadRads
G
Top Bottom