what are the top IM cali programs

[chitown82]

anyone care to comment on the top cali programs? im looking to go into cards, so programs with high fellowship placement rates are key.

i know UCSF is probably the top, but from there on out, which program are in the top tier? im guessing UCLA and stanford are in this category? im a little confused because UCLA has a bunch of programs - which ones are the best?

sorry if i sound dumb, im still in my preclinical years...

thanks!

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[manning18]

Hello, Chitown82! I'm not particularly interested in California IM programs. In fact, I recently decided to apply to Neurology instead of IM! That said, I think you were on the right track with your preliminary thoughts. I've read enough of these forums, so I might be able to help The "big four" IM programs nation wide are: Hopkins, MGH, Brigham and Women's and UCSF. I don't know if there is any order to these four, but it is said that Brigham is the most difficult of these four to match at and Hopkins the least (most likely due to its Baltimore location). Besides the "big four," it seems that the following programs are considered elite by most people: Columbia, Penn, Duke, UCLA, Stanford, University of Washington. Other highly regarded programs (that are often, but a little less frequently, placed in the elite category) include: Cornell, Yale,
UT-Southwestern, Mayo, Washington University, Northwestern, University of Michigan, University of Chicago, Beth Isreal Deaconness, UAB, Emory. You should be able to land a Cards fellowship from any of the above places, without too much trouble, so long as you're a good resident and play the game well (get involved in research, ask any high powered attendings you know to write you letters, make phone calls on your behalf, etc). Obviously, it helps to be a good talker and make a good impression in person.
The top California IM programs include UCSF in the top, number one spot. It's unlear to me which is #2 and which is #3 between UCLA and Stanford. I'd recommend Stanford, b/c it's a bigger name overall and probably has better Cards fellowship matching outside of Cali (even though it seems you prefer Cali. For Cards, you should be a bit more liberal with geography, as it's insanely competitive.) The other excellent programs in California include UCSD, Cedars-Sinai (great for Cards). From what I can gather, the quality (while still high) falls a little bit at this stage, as it did after UCLA and Stanford. Other noted programs include: UC-Davis (supposedly on the rise), Scripps Green or Scripps Mercy (forget which one is considered superior), UC Irvine and UCLA-Harbor.

The program you are referring to at UCLA (the "best" UCLA program) is identified as follows on FREIDA:
UCLA Medical Center Program
Identifier: 140-05-11-046
Specialty: Internal Medicine

This would certainly qualify as the "best" (and, as a result, most selective) of all the IM programs that maintain an affiliation with UCLA. Hope this helps. If you want more info, try googling FREIDA and follow the links. Good luck!

 

[chitown82]

most helpful response I've ever received...thank you so much!!! i know im thinking waaay ahead of the game, but cuz of a certain girl who refuses to leave cali, i want to try to be there for at least residency and since its so competitive, gotta give myself the best shot.

thanks again!

Hello, Chitown82! I'm not particularly interested in California IM programs. In fact, I recently decided to apply to Neurology instead of IM! That said, I think you were on the right track with your preliminary thoughts. I've read enough of these forums, so I might be able to help The "big four" IM programs nation wide are: Hopkins, MGH, Brigham and Women's and UCSF. I don't know if there is any order to these four, but it is said that Brigham is the most difficult of these four to match at and Hopkins the least (most likely due to its Baltimore location). Besides the "big four," it seems that the following programs are considered elite by most people: Columbia, Penn, Duke, UCLA, Stanford, University of Washington. Other highly regarded programs (that are often, but a little less frequently, placed in the elite category) include: Cornell, Yale,
UT-Southwestern, Mayo, Washington University, Northwestern, University of Michigan, University of Chicago, Beth Isreal Deaconness, UAB, Emory. You should be able to land a Cards fellowship from any of the above places, without too much trouble, so long as you're a good resident and play the game well (get involved in research, ask any high powered attendings you know to write you letters, make phone calls on your behalf, etc). Obviously, it helps to be a good talker and make a good impression in person.
The top California IM programs include UCSF in the top, number one spot. It's unlear to me which is #2 and which is #3 between UCLA and Stanford. I'd recommend Stanford, b/c it's a bigger name overall and probably has better Cards fellowship matching outside of Cali (even though it seems you prefer Cali. For Cards, you should be a bit more liberal with geography, as it's insanely competitive.) The other excellent programs in California include UCSD, Cedars-Sinai (great for Cards). From what I can gather, the quality (while still high) falls a little bit at this stage, as it did after UCLA and Stanford. Other noted programs include: UC-Davis (supposedly on the rise), Scripps Green or Scripps Mercy (forget which one is considered superior), UC Irvine and UCLA-Harbor.

The program you are referring to at UCLA (the "best" UCLA program) is identified as follows on FREIDA:
UCLA Medical Center Program
Identifier: 140-05-11-046
Specialty: Internal Medicine

This would certainly qualify as the "best" (and, as a result, most selective) of all the IM programs that maintain an affiliation with UCLA. Hope this helps. If you want more info, try googling FREIDA and follow the links. Good luck!

 

[manning18]

If you land a nice Cards, or Interventional Cards or EP (Electrophysiology) Fellowship, the ladies will follow! I am not from California, nor do I have family ties to the state. From a fiscal perspective, your dollar will go MUCH further outside of California than it will in California, particularly metropolitan SF, LA or SD. By practicing outside CA, you'll make MORE raw dollars and spend LESS for housing, taxes and other basic things. I've heard of people getting Cards offers in smaller areas for like $500K+ starting! If you get a nice job like that, you'll be a successful doctor and the ladies will follow! It's not just for the money, either, it shows that you have your priorities straight and know what is important. Basically, you were working to better yourself, while a lot of other males your age were drinking, smoking up, procreating and doing other things that held back their careers. If you're really in love with this girl, that's fine. If you want Cardiology or GI, I would say recommend that you do NOT limit your options to California. If you go to a US Medical School and do just average or slightly above average with regards to grades and Step 1 and 2 scores, you can match at many STRONG IM programs, outside of California. These places will help you get that Cards fellowship, much more easily than the California IM programs outside of the top 3 (which are ULTRA-competitivie). For example, you would have a good chance at: Indiana, Wisconsin, Medical College of Wisconsin, Iowa, Case Western, Cleveland Clinic (#1 Cards program in the nation), Thomas Jefferson, pretty much all of the Florida programs, Drexel, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Connecticut, Henry Ford, Wayne State, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Boston, Tufts, Missouri-Columbia, Saint Louis, Missouri-Kansas City (great Cards program!), Tennessee and others. If you're even better than slightly above average but still not AOA or excellent enough for UCLA, Stanford or UCSF (which are super hard if you're not from a top-notch med school), you'll have some even nicer options, like: Pittsburgh, North Carolina, Vanderbilt, Baylor (Texas Heart-top 10 Cards!), Mayo (this would almost guarantee that you got Cards!) and others. Please keep this in mind. If you want Cards, it doesn't make sense to go to a UC Irvine or a Scripps over Cleveland Clinic, even though Irvine and Scripps maybe harder to get in or have a "better location". If you really want Cards (or GI), do whatcha gotta do to get it. You have to remember that the prestige of your IM program (and, especially, the prestige of the Cardio department at your IM program) carries a LOT of weight in getting Cardio interviews and, subsequently, getting Cardio spots. If you can go to a place with a strong Cards program, you can get some big-time Academic Cardiologists to push for you and this will go a LONG was in helping you get Cards! I think you should put Cleveland Clinic(CCF) at the top of your list. It's a sweet program (with the best Cards program in the nation) but, for some reason, is relatively attainable to average US Med Students. CCF gets a lot of nonsense on this forum, b/c very few of the Cards fellows were CCF IM Residents. The reason for that is they are ranked #1 in Cards, so they get ALL the best applicants from across the land. I heard someone from their program once said that could fill their ENTIRE Cards Fellowship (13/year) with ALL graduates of Hopkins' IM Residency! I have heard that almost 1/2 of their Cards Fellows went to Hopkins IM! They might not match too many in Cards at CCF, but they do place very well in Cards and should be happy to share their Fellowship placement reports with you. At the end of the day, you should try to match at the best IM program you can (with respect to Cards placement). If this means going to Cleveland then, by all means, hop on the next flight! Good luck!

 

[captaincrunch]

In California, I agree that UCSF is number one followed by UCLA and Stanford. All three institutions are highly ranked in terms of research and very well regarded for patient care. Stanford has a reputation of being "too private" when compared to UCSF or UCLA, but they attract very strong residents. UCLA is nice, but lacks the multi-hospital exposure that UCSF offers. Some UCLA students have told me that clinical training is actually better at Harbor/UCLA, even though UCLA is the more academic of the two. I think that UCSD is next and is above the remaining UC locations (such as Irvine and Davis), and way above Cedars-Sinai, Scripps, Harbor, etc. It's also hard to beat La Jolla for location. Overall, all five UC campuses are considered top 50 schools in terms of research dollars and are pretty strong in patient-care. I don't think you will go wrong with UC Davis or UCI, provided you don't mind living in Sacramento or Orange respectively. I think a lot of people overlook these places (Davis in paticular), so if you aren't the perfect applicant but want a strong academic program in California, Davis may be exactly what you are looking for. As far as affiliate hospitals go, Harbor/UCLA and Cedars-Sinai are pretty strong and seem to have little trouble getting their grads into Cards and GI fellowships. That being said, they aren't quite on the same level as an academic program if you are thinking about fellowships. Cedars and Scripps/Green treat their residents well and offer good fellowship opportunities (Scripps/Green is particularly good for Cards). If you have family considerations (or simply want more free time), they may be worth looking at. I think USC is a little weaker. Residents work very hard and aren't rewarded with the best fellowships in the end. They are supposedly on the rise, but I would be hesitant to go there. I never looked at the Kaiser programs so I can't comment on them. Similarly, I didn't look at Drew or Loma Linda, but they are both considered well below the other well known programs. If you have your heart set on San Francisco, California Pacific Medical Center is worth a look and offers fellowship training in the major fields. I hope this helps

 

[madcadaver]

Agree that clinical training at Harbor is very strong, would also not overlook Olive View (UCLA-San Fernando) as a clinically very strong UCLA-affiliated county hospital program. Similar to Harbor but a little easier on the residents and more off-site rotations.

Cedars has merged with West LA VA program in this year's match, creating a large program that I think will be pretty good. Certainly improves the VA program, should also improve some of the weaknesses in Cedars' subspecialties.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

How is UNC perceived for residency and fellowship (cards)... clinical training, research etc....

If I want to be a clinician, does it matter if I go to UNC for residency and fellowship...

Thanks.

 

[chitown82]

hey, all of you have been extremely helpful! thanks a ton for all of the information. i go to an avg. med school so i know i have an uphill battle. im doing well so far (still a M1), will have a few pubs by the time im out, and im a good test taker so hopefully ill be able to do quite well on the boards to give me a good shot at some of these programs. thanks again, everyone! 👍