What are with the SDN applicants?

[wepio]

Forgive me if I seem a little annoyed, but is it just me, or does this site make others feel like they have no shot at medical school? I've looked through tons of forums all over the internet and this one by far makes me the most paranoid.

I understand that being modest is certainly better than being overly confident, but there's a point when your modesty does nothing more than instill unnecessary worry into others who are applying. For instance, these people who get 34+ on their MCAT with C/BCPM gpa's above 3.8 and then write, "I might apply this year, but I don't know if I'll get in". Really? Those numberical stats ARE freaking competitive, just admit it. People post 3.6 gpa's with 32 MCAT and the replies I read are, "Maybe you might think of adding some DO's or think about retaking classes/MCAT". Give me a break, they'll get int somewhere; there are 120+ medical schools in this country. There are averages for a reason. Just as many people who get in with a 34 MCAT will get in with a 30. Most schools have average MCAT scores of 30-32, gpa's of 3.6-3.7. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this post...

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[MilkmanAl]

Honestly, I think a lot of these people are the ones who've been convinced, convinced themselves, or a combo of the two that anything less than perfection is absolutely unacceptable. We all know the type. The girl who flips out in Gen Chem because she missed an A by a point or the guy who damn near commits suicide over his B+ in PChem 2. They're not necessarily gunners, but they're so obsessed with getting perfect scores that they drive themselves insane over the smallest things. They typically study 8 hours a day in undergrad and always tell everyone how terribly they did on tests and assignments after handing them in only to get A's on everything. I've never understood that mentality at all.

Sure, med school is freaking hard to get into, but it'd be great if people who are stellar candidates would be more realistic about their chances. Okay, so your 3.8 and 34 are subpar at Stanford and WashU. Big freakin' deal. If you act a fraction as smart as your scores indicate you are and don't solely apply to the top 10 schools in the country and avoid taking huge, steaming dumps on your interviewers' desks, you're going to get in somewhere. A school's average numbers don't indicate education quality, guys. Everyone has to learn pretty much the same stuff. Snubbing med schools for their "low" stats just blows my mind. You don't have to get your soul crushed at Harvard for 4 years to be a decent doctor. I'm sure Mizzou or U. of North Dakota would be just as happy to take care of that soul crushing for you.

 

[Narmerguy]

Someone got less than stellar responses for his "what are my chances" thread?

 

[202781]

People on this site are just trying to freak others out. I know a lot of people who studied 8+ hours/day for their undergrad and I simply find that pathetic...if you need to study that much to learn ANYTHING in my opinion you should not be an MD. They are just people who either want to brag or be reassured that they will get into a program. I don't mind when someone has a legitimate question about a school/ unique circumstance / what programs they should apply to / if they should apply more broadly... but if someone comes on with a 32+ and a 3.6+ and asks if they have a SHOT at getting in ANYWHERE... PLEASE

BTW... I have a 32M and 3.77 gpa, good letters, decent EC/shadowing/volunteer work... do you think I can get in somewhere?

 

[MilkmanAl]

I sure am glad I didn't find this site until the spring or I probably wouldn't have applied last cycle at all. Can you imagine what the boo birds would have said about my 2.89 BCPM?

 

[UVAbme2009]

I'd like to see where a 3.6/32 was told what you said.

Take everything here with a grain of salt and realize who you are discussing things with.

 

[jdh71]

haha - it doesn't stop here, wait until you start reading about applying to residency around here . . . let it slide off your back, seriously.

 

[wepio]

I sure am glad I didn't find this site until the spring or I probably wouldn't have applied last cycle at all. Can you imagine what the boo birds would have said about my 2.89 BCPM?

Hey, how did it all turn out? I'm in sort of a reversed situation. My undergrad is a cGPA is 2.9 in Civil Engineering, but my post-bacc is a 3.9 for BCPM. I'm still waiting on the MCAT. I expect a PS/VR/BS of 11-13/7-8/11-13 and whatever average is for the writing. I just get crushed on the verbal everytime. I figured might as well focus on the stuff I can control.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Well, I got a grand total of 1 interview, 26 rejection letters, and 1 giant "F you" from Wayne State (i.e., they never sent me any info at all after I applied: no rejection letters, nothing). That 1 interview at Arkansas was just absolutely once-in-a-lifetime awesome, and I got waitlisted. I got in off the waitlist on May 13.

Looks like you're expecting a low 30's MCAT. Sounds pretty workable to me, given your postbac GPA.

edit: I guess a more succinct answer would be: It turned out well, but I don't suggest it.

 

[wepio]

Well, I got a grand total of 1 interview, 26 rejection letters, and 1 giant "F you" from Wayne State (i.e., they never sent me any info at all after I applied: no rejection letters, nothing). That 1 interview at Arkansas was just absolutely once-in-a-lifetime awesome, and I got waitlisted. I got in off the waitlist on May 13.

Looks like you're expecting a low 30's MCAT. Sounds pretty workable to me, given your postbac GPA.

edit: I guess a more succinct answer would be: It turned out well, but I don't suggest it.

That's awesome. Well, not like in a laughing at you sort of way, but more laughing with with. Yeah, I expect to matriculate next year as long as I don't - as you put it - "take a big dump" during the interview.

I'm applying to about 20 schools, maybe a couple more. The majority of them are the ones with average MCAT scores of 30-31. I've got a half dozen in the 32 range, and about another half dozen in the 32+. I figure I might as well apply. Since I'm a non-trad, I figure that they'll be a little forgiving of my undergrad.

 

[mrmilad]

HAHAHA, guess you saw those threads with the "GPA 3.8 MCAT 42, CAN I BECOME A DOCTOR?!". There are plenty of average applicant floating around here though, myself included. Just take what you read on these forums as a secondary to your own research. People here are great but the advice is not always spot on, specially since all premeds will tell you they are an expert at whatever topic you ask them about. So don't fret my boy, I am an expert advice giver, alls gonna be well. lol.

For me, I'll be happy with any med school with my 33R and 3.9 and my ******ed international status. Good luck to you.

 

[MilkmanAl]

There are lots of aspects of the application process that are purely humorous to me now, the Wayne State thing being one of them. Wake Forest's personalized "you aren't a qualified candidate" rejection letter is another. Miami being extremely hardcore about their admissions policies ranks high on my funny list, too. Perhaps the best, though, was the effort Arkansas's admissions officials made to tell me that I was going to get in without actually saying it outright. I mean, I thought I picked up on some unusually positive language when I was originally speaking with them, but now it's just so obvious that I can't help but kick myself. Hearing "You're in the top 10 on our waitlist, and you'll get in as soon as it starts moving" would have made the time between Feb. 15 and May 15 a whole hell of a lot easier.

 

[Disambiguation]

I don't know. The overachievers inspire me to work harder and made me realize the level of maturity of my future colleagues in the operating table. Academia to me is an entertainingly cutthroat game that isn't always fair. Therefore, this site helped to provide me with a competitive status quo. I wouldn't let it get you down. Just keep on getting back up and lunging straight into science.

I love science and discovering things that the naked eye is unable to see. I love exploring molecules and elements. All the calculations and all the contributions. Honestly fascinating. I love science for being science and I'm positive that my genuine love for the human cardiovascular system will show through. If I'm honest, put in an honest effort, and show an honest face, then I have no regrets even if I don't accepted into an M.D. School. Maybe God has other things planned for me that are in the field of science. But for now, nothing can replace the sense of personal accomplishment I get from studying Science.

Not politics, or the humanities, or even writing matches this personal sense of elation. Even though I might do better in those subjects in terms of grades, I would personally kick myself 20 years down the road and ask myself, "Why didn't you challenge yourself and learn something you couldn't learn at home?" Congratulations to all those incredibly smart people who can pull off a 3.9 and still feel dissatisfied with their performance. You truly are appreciated in the medical field and I hope you help many lives.

To be a perfectionist to some degree is within the realms of human nature. But it is also important to remember that no one gets it right the first time. "To err is to be human." We all come from different backgrounds, different lives, and are unique in our own right. Your mistakes and knowledge from those mistakes might contribute in a manner that other people just simply cannot. You are unique. You are special. And you have as much a chance as anyone else as long as you know this is what you want. I think no one else has the right to tell you otherwise just because of what they see on a sheet of 8'-11' paper.

Do what you love first. Then success should follow naturally.

 

[Dulcina]

i think numbers are not everything. EC's count for a lot, and if someone has bad EC's, i think its valid to question whether they should wait.

 

[AirJLastDance]

I think its very easy to be intimidated by others on these forums. But its refreshing to hear others who say hey hold its going to be alright just give it your all and do what you can. After all getting into medical school is a 2 way street, you apply to schools and in turn they decide whether to accept you or not. It definitely hurts when rejection hits but its going to happen.

After you apply and put your best foot out there the rest is up to the schools and some will roll the dice on you and some won't well either prove them wrong or their loss.

Eventually when you are a doctor as long as you get to practice thats all you will really care about anyway and the rest is all bragging rights....ha ha ha I went to Harvard and prolly paid more tuition than you did going to your state school...etc etc

Have faith in the system and that things work out for the best, its not the end of the world and there are also many various paths to being a doctor but for now just keep the task at hand in mind.

anyhow thats my 2 cents

PS haha what you think my chances are with a 3.97 GPA (BCMP if not then around 4.00) and 27R (retook but felt it was hard as well so just hoping I didn't go down. the mdapps says it but yeah don't kill me too hard ha we all love some positive (yet realistic) encouragement from time to time

 

[Hawk2007]

I don't know. The overachievers inspire me to work harder and made me realize the level of maturity of my future colleagues in the operating table. Academia to me is an entertainingly cutthroat game that isn't always fair. Therefore, this site helped to provide me with a competitive status quo. I wouldn't let it get you down. Just keep on getting back up and lunging straight into science.

Some of the people on here cause me to lose faith in humanity. I would be careful about stroking some of the characters like that if I were you.

I hope I don't get banned for that because I mean it in the nicest possible way.

 

[Hawk2007]

Well, I got a grand total of 1 interview, 26 rejection letters, and 1 giant "F you" from Wayne State (i.e., they never sent me any info at all after I applied: no rejection letters, nothing). That 1 interview at Arkansas was just absolutely once-in-a-lifetime awesome, and I got waitlisted. I got in off the waitlist on May 13.

But, you ended up getting into an SEC school.

The way I look at it, you won.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Yeah, I definitely won. There's no doubt about it in my mind. It doesn't even conflict with my current loyalties, UNC and MU. Unbelievable. Oh, and then there's that med school thing. That's kind of nice, too. I hear they have cool coats there.

 

[pianola]

Wake Forest's personalized "you aren't a qualified candidate" rejection letter is another.

What? It's personalized? Seriously? Like they're going to write me "I'm sure you're a nice person and all, but really, your PS was absolutely dreadful." Boy that's JUST what I want to hear during an application cycle.

 

[Hawk2007]

Yeah, I definitely won. There's no doubt about it in my mind. It doesn't even conflict with my current loyalties, UNC and MU. Unbelievable. Oh, and then there's that med school thing. That's kind of nice, too. I hear they have cool coats there.

I'd try to make every home football game if I were you. Yeah, med school will be rough and you may not think you have time, but SEC football is something a lot of medical students will shush (because all there is to life is studying) or never fully appreciate.

 

[MilkmanAl]

What? It's personalized? Seriously? Like they're going to write me "I'm sure you're a nice person and all, but really, your PS was absolutely dreadful." Boy that's JUST what I want to hear during an application cycle.

Mine was, at least. I'd read it to you, but it got deleted from my inbox months ago. I think someone else did poorly on the the verbal and got something along the lines of "Your score is unacceptable for a native English speaker" in the rejection letter.

edit: Here it is: "A verbal score that low is unacceptable from a native english speaker." That's regarding a 7 on VS.

I'd try to make every home football game if I were you.

I'll make an effort to at least see a couple of them. Fayetteville is a reasonable drive from Little Rock, though, and my huge NFL fandom will dominate my Sundays. I'm not sure I can afford to burn Saturdays as well, but we shall see.

 

[coffeeeandtea]

OMG i totally agree. i just got back from my summer freshman counseling/advising job and i started reading these forums for the first time and i'm now officially freaked out because it seems like everyone here is a ultra-super-4.0-i'vedoneverysinglepossibleshadowingextracurricularrelatedtomedicine student and it sounds like i have no chance against them. *sigh*....

Forgive me if I seem a little annoyed, but is it just me, or does this site make others feel like they have no shot at medical school? I've looked through tons of forums all over the internet and this one by far makes me the most paranoid.

I understand that being modest is certainly better than being overly confident, but there's a point when your modesty does nothing more than instill unnecessary worry into others who are applying. For instance, these people who get 34+ on their MCAT with C/BCPM gpa's above 3.8 and then write, "I might apply this year, but I don't know if I'll get in". Really? Those numberical stats ARE freaking competitive, just admit it. People post 3.6 gpa's with 32 MCAT and the replies I read are, "Maybe you might think of adding some DO's or think about retaking classes/MCAT". Give me a break, they'll get int somewhere; there are 120+ medical schools in this country. There are averages for a reason. Just as many people who get in with a 34 MCAT will get in with a 30. Most schools have average MCAT scores of 30-32, gpa's of 3.6-3.7. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this post...

 

[pianola]

"A verbal score that low is unacceptable from a native english speaker."

Wow. That's all I have to say. Just, wow. wow. I think if I got such a condescending "personalized rejection" like that, I'd probably write a long letter to the school afterwards.

Thanks for explaining, MilkmanAl. At least I won't be in shock after having read my rejection. Seriously, I do appreciate it.

 

[omelette1230]

I was wondering how much research experience is actually valued in the process. do more research based schools value it more you think? my undergrad was pretty good except for my senior year when i basically tanked and screwed up my whole GPR (3.0)

i did a post bacc and took 30 hours of upper level biology courses while working full time in a year and got 3.9.

ive done some nice work in the lab with 5 co-authored published papers(2 to Neuron and one to Nature) and our lab is sending out 6 more that i've co-authored, one of them to New england journal of medicine. how much of a difference does this make? My MCAT was a 28.

I was thinking about MD/PhD-maybe they'd be partial to me over MD programs?

 

[foodfood]

thank god for this thread...sometimes i feel like i'm the only pre-med at my school who parties. wine-in-a-box anyone? so classy, I know.

 

[MilkmanAl]

A good friend of mine and I used to get together and split a box of wine when there wasn't anything else going on (and/or to start up a gathering). Ah yes, memories. Foodfood, you're my kinda girl. You free for some Franzia and EasyMac tomorrow night? Maybe we can watch some drag racing, too.

 

[Druzie]

My undergrad is a cGPA is 2.9 in Civil Engineering, but my post-bacc is a 3.9 for BCPM.

Yeah, I expect to matriculate next year as long as I don't - as you put it - "take a big dump" during the interview.

I'm applying to about 20 schools, maybe a couple more. I figure I might as well apply. Since I'm a non-trad, I figure that they'll be a little forgiving of my undergrad.

Sounds like we're going through similar things, wepio. My ugrad GPA is average, and my postbacc is good. But I have no idea what that means to any of these schools, so I'm trying to apply really broadly... (even though my advisor originally told me 14 schools, not that she has been right about everything). The process seems even more opaque for a non-trad, and I just hope I'm covering all my bases.

i think numbers are not everything. EC's count for a lot, and if someone has bad EC's, i think its valid to question whether they should wait.

As a postbacc who tried to link and was rejected for lack of experience, I can attest to the importance of EC's. I still think my EC's are my greatest weakness and could possibly do me in. But again, as with my lower ugrad GPA, I'm hoping that adcoms will cut me some slack since I'm non-trad.

 

[Craig McDermott]

MilkmanAl is a testament to how numbers aren't everything (although a 35 MCAT is awesome by non-SDN standards). Al did you ever make a 'what are my chances' thread? I am just curious as to what the replies were.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I didn't, actually. I (thankfully) didn't discover SDN until March, and the deed had obviously been done long before then. I also didn't have a pre-med adviser, so I did the whole process myself, for the most part. I'm sure I would've been advised to apply only to state schools and generous OOS schools (which is what I tried to do anyway) and also apply to DO schools (which I should have done).

When I got here, everyone encouraged me to apply to SMP's, and I got accepted to a few. That obviously turned out to be irrelevant, though.

I'll say this: numbers may not be everything, but they sure as hell help. I went into this cycle thinking that if I got an interview, I'd be in. If being raised in a sterotypical Italian household is good for anything other than an absurdly high blood garlic content, it's developing the gift of gab. Of course, I was (rightfully) convinced that all of my essays needed to be absolutely perfect to get an interview. I don't wish stress like that on anyone. Keep those scores up, kids. Don't be like Uncle Al and scrap for every opportunity you can get.

 

[SkiNH]

I think reading the posts on this website causes more stress than taking the MCAT and applying to schools combined.

 

[foodfood]

A good friend of mine and I used to get together and split a box of wine when there wasn't anything else going on (and/or to start up a gathering). Ah yes, memories. Foodfood, you're my kinda girl. You free for some Franzia and EasyMac tomorrow night? Maybe we can watch some drag racing, too.

sounds perfect! you're from Mo, I'm from Ca, let's meet up in....wyoming? easymac sounds good mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[foodfood]

isn't Kansas City in Kansas?

 

[dienekes88]

I don't know why you thought you would get blasted. That comment is often tacked onto fairly innocent posts...

I can sympathize. SDN self-selects the more neurotic and overachieving types. I definitely started freaking out after my first couple months of SDN-reading. The important thing to know is that the type of person who posts on SDN is probably not your typical applicant.

I'm an ex-shoesalesman and unemployed pastry cook. Nothing wrong with leading an unimpressive life. It's just a little harder to be noticed, so you have to make sure everything else is in order.

 

[dienekes88]

isn't Kansas City in Kansas?

There's a Kansas City in Missouri too. They're right next to one another.

 

[MilkmanAl]

The ultra-trashy, people-get-killed-every-day part of Kansas City is in Kansas. A guy I know who grew up in east L.A. says KCK, as we call it, is worse than that. Anyway, see ya in Wyoming.

 

[redbull928]

Actually being on this forum makes me more motivated. The cool thing is, when I did all my EC's, I didn't do them to go to med school. I did them because I wanted to, and I don't think my EC's are too terrible despite that they're in engineering Yeah, I freaked out, but this whole freaking out deal made me realize that I won't let a stupid thing like GPA stand in my way anymore. I'll kick butt in med school!!

 

[DrBrizzle]

I agree totally. Ive got a 3.6 and a 31P, and many times seem unfit to clean bed pans voluntarily for my career (or so the feeling i get from SDN ) Ya, your dealing with a lot of type A premeds here, who worry about whether Hopkins will notice their one B+ in P-Chem sophomore year, yet overlook their 37 MCAT. BTW, what are my chances? lol

 

[tiedyeddog]

Self-selection at it's best. I tend to think SDN membership is based on this....

Many people who are "highly qualified and competitive" and many people who are "lower and less qualified" with little of the middle ground due to this reason:
1. People who are highly competitive are neurotic and actively seek out places like SDN, thus, many people seem highly qualified
2. Many people who are in a hole and want ideas of chances/help seek out SDN in order to formulate a plan.
3. Middle of the road people don't seek out SDN because they aren't neurotic and don't really need guidance.

So, in my theory, SDN members fulfill a reverse "bell curve". This leads people to think everyone is either highly competitive or sucking at life. It's skewed really hard, thus causing more premed neuroticism in the "highly competitive" bunch (did I see a 3.9 GPA, 39 MCAT in the "what are my chances forum"? WTF?!?!)

I'm done.

 

[landofoo]

to the OP...

there are a lot of neurotic @$$holes on SDN...get used to it.

these people shouldn't be doctors...and unfortunately, they just might.

 

[UVAbme2009]

to the OP...

there are a lot of neurotic @$$holes on SDN...get used to it.

these people shouldn't be doctors...and unfortunately, they just might.

I don't think the internet gives a good picture of what type of person someone really is. I've seen few jerks on this site. A bunch of gunners and neurotic freaks, but few jerks.

 

[rinamin1011]

THANK YOU! for this thread. sometimes when i go onto SDN i get so upset because it just happens that most people freaking out are those with 3.9's and stellar MCAT scores. really makes me think, WOW and i REALLY have a chance against these people....THANK YOU! now i actually know there's normal people on SDN too =)

 

[cornpops21]

I'm actually surprised that no one has flamed the OP. This gives me hope for humanity...

 

[stixx]

i think numbers are not everything. EC's count for a lot, and if someone has bad EC's, i think its valid to question whether they should wait.

Totally agree. Does no one else get the feeling when they read through the "amazing stats" threads that the posters are holding something back? Most likely the fact that they spent their undergrad in a cave?

I don't think they're neurotic, they're genuinely looking for assurance based on numbers alone once they realize their application only looks good from far away. And of course they're not going to address their weaknesses in their WAMC when the entire point is to fish for compliments.

And everyone knows of someone's friend's cousin's boyfriend with a 4.0/45 who got rejected from all the top schools (for lacking...well...something other than numbers) and his "safeties" too (for not putting enough effort into convincing the adcoms they weren't his safety). The 40+ers among us deserve their chance to freak out too.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I seriously worry about some of the people on this site. It seems like there are far too many people who spent their college lives in a library or useless volunteer activity. No wonder people think doctors are aloof. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, you know. There's plenty of time to liquefy your brain with studying overloads come med school. Don't squander what should be some of the best years of your lives to raise your GPA a tenth of a point. Your patients will thank you for it later when they can talk to a doctor instead of a medical automaton.