What are your opinions?

[oriJINal]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Let's say there are two applicants that the Admissions Committee must decide on who to choose to fill their last spot.

Both of them scored an interview. Applicant A has below average on either gpa or DAT but is above average on the other. He was able to speak english properly and was able to carry on the conversation and impressed the Interviewer with conmmunication skills. Applicant B has above average on both gpa and DAT. But, cannot speak english and at the time of interview when asked to write an essay wrote as if a high schooler wrote it. The english does not flow and was awkard at the interview.

Who do you guys think the Admissions Committee will choose? Please do not argue about others' opinions.

P.S. Applicant A is US Citizen and Applicant B is International Student.

P.P.S. if any of your guys talked to Admissions Committee about this topic, what did they say? thanks

 

[Destiny11]

cannot speak english and at the time of interview when asked to write an essay wrote as if a high schooler wrote it. The english does not flow and was awkard at the interview.

Ummm...that is a BIG problem. You cannot be an effective health professional if your patients cannot understand you. This is the same for people with personalities of a rock. Adcom will choose person A here.

 

[highhopee]

Ummm...that is a BIG problem. You cannot be an effective health professional if your patients cannot understand you. This is the same for people with personalities of a rock. Adcom will choose person A here.

^ I agree. I would choose A.

 

[lauraashley]

I think no matter the grades on applicant B he'd have a hard time finding acceptance due to the communication barrier.

 

[Regmata]

I think no matter the grades on applicant B he'd have a hard time finding acceptance due to the communication barrier.

You would be surprised...

 

[aelian]

You would be surprised...

Yeah, I'm confused about the OP's question. How bad is the English, exactly? They know absolutely none or have been speaking English for only 2 years? I know plenty of international students who aren't exactly the greatest speakers or writers but they are frickin' smart and hard working and they could easily be classified as a candidate B. Dental school is 4 years and the student will see hundreds of patients before they finish. I dunno, even with the lack of info, I like applicant B.

 

[DonutEater]

Yeah, I'm confused about the OP's question. How bad is the English, exactly? They know absolutely none or have been speaking English for only 2 years? I know plenty of international students who aren't exactly the greatest speakers or writers but they are frickin' smart and hard working and they could easily be classified as a candidate B. Dental school is 4 years and the student will see hundreds of patients before they finish. I dunno, even with the lack of info, I like applicant B.

Studying is easy if one puts passion and effort. You cannot learn communications skills, it's gifted. Even with 4 years of seeing patients. The adcom wants to choose students who will become better dentist not someone who is only booksmart that cannot effectively communicate with their patients.

 

[aelian]

Studying is easy if one puts passion and effort. You cannot learn communications skills, it's gifted. Even with 4 years of seeing patients. The adcom wants to choose students who will become better dentist not someone who is only booksmart that cannot effectively communicate with their patients.

I really, really think it is the other way around (just my opinion, substance over style). A person isn't going to fail out of dental school because they can't have the world's greatest conversation about who won the basketball game last night or because they can't appreciate an Edgar Allan Poe piece. They will fail out because they suck at histology. Just look around at a hospital. Sometimes half of those doctors speak with an accent, know nothing about football, aren't the spitting image of an "Amurican" but they are great doctors. And beside, it sounds as if you are confusing an introvert with someone with a language barrier. Plenty of people overcome a language barrier, like, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Now GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!

 

[DonutEater]

I really, really think it is the other way around (just my opinion, substance over style). A person isn't going to fail out of dental school because they can't have the world's greatest conversation about who won the basketball game last night or because they can't appreciate an Edgar Allan Poe piece. They will fail out because they suck at histology. Just look around at a hospital. Sometimes half of those doctors speak with an accent, know nothing about football, aren't the spitting image of an "Amurican" but they are great doctors. And beside, it sounds as if you are confusing an introvert with someone with a language barrier. Plenty of people overcome a language barrier, like, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Now GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!

Why do you assume A has the inability to learn and excel in dental school and drop out of dental school but you assume that B has the ability to overcome a language barrier? You make it sound like A is a ******.
Like I said, if A puts 20 hours of studying/day, he can do well in dental school.
You cannot learn how to talk to people.
Your opinion is biased towards B if you read what you wrote.
If you think just because you are intelligent, you will become a good dentist, why don't all the private schools just choose all international students? Most international students have higher stats than american citizens. And like you said, if dental schools believe that they can simply overcome a language barrier and learn someday how to communicate with others, they should choose all international students.

 

[redchesus]

This is such a moot discussion. The circumstances are too vague. How bad of English are we talking? I mean, if he/she writes like a high schooler... well, I'm sure high schoolers could communicate with patients.

And the other candidate, how low is the DAT or GPA in comparison. Some numbers are just *too* low. Like under <3.0 GPA or <17 DAT

 

[aelian]

Why do you assume A has the inability to learn and excel in dental school and drop out of dental school
I assume that they will have a tougher time in dental school based simply on either their DAT or with their GPA. Now, what makes you assume people who speak English as a second language will not be able to speak better?

but you assume that B has the ability to overcome a language barrier?
Yes, because I have worked under many dentists and dental students who have overcome the barrier. And, unfortunately, I know many great personalities who simply never made the grades to become great dentists.

You make it sound like A is a ******.
You make B sound like he/she is autistic or like he/she is a 34 year old living in their parent's basement

Like I said, if A puts 20 hours of studying/day, he can do well in dental school.
Okay, great. Applicant B can use Rosetta Stone one hour a day, and they will do well and still finish at the top of their class.

You cannot learn how to talk to people. 😀
Speak, speak. You mean to say: You cannot learn how to speak with people, unless you mean it as an authority figure.

Your opinion is biased towards B if you read what you wrote.
Oh, boy...I just got called the b-word. Okay, okay. Breathe in, breathe out.
I'll admit my opinion is biased from having worked with so many candidate B's as soon as you admit your ignorance on the subject due to lack of interaction with them. And I'm an applicant A, btw.

If you think just because you are intelligent, you will become a good dentist, why don't all the private schools just choose all international students?
If you think because you are social, you will become a good dentist, why don't all the private schools just choose all the sororities and frats? In fact, screw Pre-Dental clubs, let’s start seeing how involved applicants are at the dance clubs.

Most international students have higher stats than american citizens. And like you said, if dental schools believe that they can simply overcome a language barrier and learn someday how to communicate with others, they should choose all international students.
I would be interested to see the acceptance rates at private schools for international students versus domestic students. But you are losing traction when you say they should choose all. You are greatly flawed in assuming that there are a great deal of international students.

 

[coolslugs]

Learning a new language is one thing, but not losing anything in translation is another. Similarly, be able to read a textbook is one thing, but to carry on a conversation or a piece of writing like a native speaker is another. Mastering a language cannot be done in a couple of years.

 

[DonutEater]

I assume that they will have a tougher time in dental school based simply on either their DAT or with their GPA. Now, what makes you assume people who speak English as a second language will not be able to speak better?

The OP said if Applicant A is below average on either DAT or GPA and above average on the other. Either case, the applicant knows how to study since one of them is above average. If it was the GPA that was below average, have you considered that they might have attended more competitive school or that they might have had bad freshman year? Isn't it obvious that someone who has English as a second language will have hard time "speaking" with people in comparison to a someone who was born and raised here?? I don't understand what you are getting at here. The OP clearly said Applicant B cannot speak English well and is international.

Yes, because I have worked under many dentists and dental students who have overcome the barrier. And, unfortunately, I know many great personalities who simply never made the grades to become great dentists.

Well that's strange because most dentists I met and even current students I know didn't have superior stats but were very personable and successful. Plus, they can speak English.

You make B sound like he/she is autistic or like he/she is a 34 year old living in their parent's basement

I am stating what OP said in that applicant B does not have great social skills. OP stated that A was invited to an interview meaning the adcom sees that this applicant is intelligible. Adcoms have no way of seeing an applicant's personality nor communication skills whatsoever in the application

Okay, great. Applicant B can use Rosetta Stone one hour a day, and they will do well and still finish at the top of their class.

What makes you so confident that applicant B will finish top of his/her respective class?
To be truthful, applicant A has the potential to at least graduate dental schools and it's up to their social skills to become successful. Of course whether B finished dental school at the top of their class or not, will they be successful as a dentist? Hell no.

Speak, speak. You mean to say: You cannot learn how to speak with people, unless you mean it as an authority figure.

You got nothing else to say that you point out minor choice of word? lol
It is appropriate saying "talk" to people. rofl. Obviously you show you never talk to people and only communicate through internet since you pinpoint such minor stuff.

Oh, boy...I just got called the b-word. Okay, okay. Breathe in, breathe out.
I'll admit my opinion is biased from having worked with so many candidate B's as soon as you admit your ignorance on the subject due to lack of interaction with them. And I'm an applicant A, btw.

You should admit your ignorance by falsely believing that I was not exposed to very intelligent individuals. I know great deal of applicants who fall both to category A and B.

If you think because you are social, you will become a good dentist, why don't all the private schools just choose all the sororities and frats? In fact, screw Pre-Dental clubs, let's start seeing how involved applicants are at the dance clubs.

Because sororities and frats consist of individuals who doesn't have passion for dentistry. Duh? Adcoms look at other things besides just stats. You seem like you need to research more on the topic before you post your "OWN" opinions without any bases. Why don't all the dental schools just screw the pre-dentals and go get those med students! Yea! Great idea! Oh, how about the dental schools go to other countries and recruit very accomplished individuals to their schools since they only care about stats and not if they can speak english since you can learn that in 4 years of dental school. You sound purely ignorant.

 

[DonutEater]

Learning a new language is one thing, but not losing anything in translation is another. Similarly, be able to read a textbook is one thing, but to carry on a conversation or a piece of writing like a native speaker is another. Mastering a language cannot be done in a couple of years.

That is exactly what i've been trying to get through aelian's fat stubborn head. rofl
He thinks an introvert person is able to learn how to be social when all his life he just studied and had no social exposure.
Being interactive is also a skill that adcoms account for and give high attention to. You cannot simply learn that in couple of years.

 

[rnbaxter]

Edit: I choose A period. Dont want to get into this controversy lol

 

[slm266]

I think both sides of the argument have been adequately represented. The truth is, it really doesn't matter what we think. Smart international students are still going to have to out-perform us to be considered competitive. Every applicant needs to have goods stats and interpersonal skills to be competitive.

No matter what opinions are expressed in this thread, nobody is going to change what they're doing. We all try to perform academically as best as we can, and we all know we need to prepare for inteviews. Try to spend time worrying about things that you can control.

To throw in my 2 cents, I think DS will take plenty of both types of candidates. They want to keep their stats up, and they also want applicants that can communicate exceptionally well, and obviously those that can do both.

As a bilingual student, I know for a fact that you can improve in your communication skills. If you can improve in your ability to carry on a convo in your native language, why can't you in a foreign language? If an international student is smart enough to excel at languages like anatomy and organic chemistry, they can learn another lanuage.

 

[aelian]

😡

That is exactly what i've been trying to get through aelian's fat stubborn head. rofl
He thinks an introvert person is able to learn how to be social when all his life he just studied and had no social exposure.
Being interactive is also a skill that adcoms account for and give high attention to. You cannot simply learn that in couple of years.

DonutEater, your ceaseless assertion that a person who doesn't speak English well equates to that person being an introvert is as pointless as normal human clothes for Lady Gaga. Never, never, never did I say I was defending an introvert over applicant A. No where in my argument. In fact, I said a person with a language barrier and an introvert are two different things. You, perhaps too busy eating a delicious chocolate glazed skipped over that part. There is a difference. You being a donut connoisseur, would you call a blueberry donut cake a blueberry pie? No, they are different. Different, different, different. 😡 Make another false assertion and I shall be forced to slap that donut out of your mouth...no, no I won't. 🙁 Never do anything so sacrilegious as waste a donut, especially not a donut cake.

And as for you, Sir/Ma'am Coolslugs, the average dentist will not be practicing for 1 year. More like 30-40 years. That is plenty of times to learn. And go ahead and look around the forums at all the people who were rejected automatically because they couldn't meet the cutoff. I'm pretty sure some of those people are pretty kick-butt people.

 

[doc toothache]

Wouldn't that depend on whether or not the school in question is in need of an international student to fill their quota so to speak? A person who doesn't command the language may end up being an excellent practitioner whereas a William Buckley might have a hard time telling a left quadrant from a right quadrant.

 

[DonutEater]

Aelian, did I say a person who doesn't speak English equates to that person being introvert? No. You should read what you wrote. You wrote "introvert" in the first place in supporting your case. I merely said that someone incapable of carrying on a conversation will not impress the interviewer. The OP said B cannot speak English well and is unable to carry on a conversation.
"You, perhaps too busy eating a delicious chocolate glazed skipped over that part" I don't find this funny or helping your case whatsoever.
If you think about slapping me, I will beat the **** out you.
You sense of humor is ridiculously not funny. You shall see that it would be near impossible for you to get into dental school since you have freaking low gpa. Go do something productive or change your career since you have no chance whatsoever.
Lol, I belive Coolslugs has more exposure to this material more than you will ever have. Don't you think Coolslugs know that average dentist does not practice for 1 year? Lol
Wouldn't someone who merely has either gpa or DAT below average not have "plenty" of time to learn histology? Lol

 

[highhopee]

Moderator, close this thread... Such a pointless topic...

 

[aelian]

Aelian, did I say a person who doesn’t speak English equates to that person being introvert? No. You should read what you wrote. You wrote “introvert” in the first place in supporting your case. I merely said that someone incapable of carrying on a conversation will not impress the interviewer. The OP said B cannot speak English well and is unable to carry on a conversation.
“You, perhaps too busy eating a delicious chocolate glazed skipped over that part” I don’t find this funny or helping your case whatsoever.
If you think about slapping me, I will beat the **** out you.
You sense of humor is ridiculously not funny. You shall see that it would be near impossible for you to get into dental school since you have freaking low gpa. Go do something productive or change your career since you have no chance whatsoever.
Lol, I belive Coolslugs has more exposure to this material more than you will ever have. Don’t you think Coolslugs know that average dentist does not practice for 1 year? Lol
Wouldn’t someone who merely has either gpa or DAT below average not have “plenty” of time to learn histology? Lol

Oh, gosh. I’m scared now. Please don’t kill me, internet gangster.
You said “You cannot learn communications skills, it's gifted.” Language skills and communication skills are different.
“You wrote “introvert” in the first place in supporting your case.”
I wrote, “it sounds as if you are confusing an introvert with someone with a language barrier”

If you think about slapping me, I will beat the **** out you.
Whoah, whoah, internet cowboy. If one of your future patients gets your prep wet, you aren’t going to choke them with your suction, are you? Calm down. Relax. Have a good time.

You shall see that it would be near impossible for you to get into dental school since you have freaking low gpa. Go do something productive or change your career since you have no chance whatsoever.
Haha, guy/gal, you are sounding very butthurt. My intentions were not to leave you feeling butthurt. If you are defending people skills, then have some, my man. Don't take a joke and act like you just got sodomized by Lexington Steele. And my chances at dental school are pretty darn good. I’m an honest person. I would admit it if I didn’t.

Now, relax. Go be an internet gangster in peace. Smile. 😀

 

[DonutEater]

Oh, gosh. I’m scared now. Please don’t kill me, internet gangster.
You said “You cannot learn communications skills, it's gifted.” Language skills and communication skills are different.
“You wrote “introvert” in the first place in supporting your case.”
I wrote, “it sounds as if you are confusing an introvert with someone with a language barrier”

If you think about slapping me, I will beat the **** out you.
Whoah, whoah, internet cowboy. If one of your future patients gets your prep wet, you aren’t going to choke them with your suction, are you? Calm down. Relax. Have a good time.

You shall see that it would be near impossible for you to get into dental school since you have freaking low gpa. Go do something productive or change your career since you have no chance whatsoever.
Haha, guy/gal, you are sounding very butthurt. My intentions were not to leave you feeling butthurt. If you are defending people skills, then have some, my man. Don't take a joke and act like you just got sodomized by Lexington Steele. And my chances at dental school are pretty darn good. I’m an honest person. I would admit it if I didn’t.

Now, relax. Go be an internet gangster in peace. Smile. 😀

Yes, a student like me who got 750 in verbal on SAT and 24 in RC is confused between the definitions of introvert and language barrier. Keep in mind that language barrier do play a role in an individual’s early life on their personality.
Nope, it’s future classmates (hope not) like you that acts like a smart ass with his analogies that pisses me off. Here we go with your “assumption” that just cause I attack you that I will go nuts on my future patients. Lol
Like I said, I don’t find your jokes or whatever it is that you are saying as funny. Why would you chance be good? I don’t understand why you believe you have a “darn” good chance. Your gpa is barely sweeping the cutoff gpa’s. You will surely be the last thing adcoms will look at since there are thousands of more applicants be it domestic or international with higher stats than you.
I am honest as well and your low gpa + arroganancy + stubborness = no acceptance. I would wish you good luck but I would be lying.

 

[aelian]

Yes, a student like me who got 750 in verbal on SAT and 24 in RC is confused between the definitions of introvert and language barrier. Keep in mind that language barrier do play a role in an individual’s early life on their personality.
Nope, it’s future classmates (hope not) like you that acts like a smart ass with his analogies that pisses me off. Here we go with your “assumption” that just cause I attack you that I will go nuts on my future patients. Lol
Like I said, I don’t find your jokes or whatever it is that you are saying as funny. Why would you chance be good? I don’t understand why you believe you have a “darn” good chance. Your gpa is barely sweeping the cutoff gpa’s. You will surely be the last thing adcoms will look at since there are thousands of more applicants be it domestic or international with higher stats than you.
I am honest as well and your low gpa + arroganancy + stubborness = no acceptance. I would wish you good luck but I would be lying.

Haha. I still like you Donuteaterinternetgangster. We both love doughnuts and we both got the same on the RC. Yayyy. Too bad you kept on going about "introvert" this and that. And you just admitted it, "personality" and a "language barrier" are not the same. I hope you don't go nuts on your future patients. No. No. You should go DO-nuts on your future patients. 😀 I know, I'm not funny. 🙁
I believe I have a good chance because my grades, although low, have constantly been on the rise and because I kicked butt on all my upper levels. I believe I have a good chance because my DATs are good (maybe higher than yours...probably not). I believe I have a good chance because my LOR's and EC's are great and I have a good connection with the Adcoms. I believe I have a good chance because I'm only applying in Texas where we don't have cutoffs and also I won't have to compete with 3000 applicants but rather a 1000 and because I've already interviewed at dental schools. I believe my chances are good because I've got plenty of people, adcoms included, who are supporting me. So, yeah, honestly, my chances are good.
As far as me being arrogant and stubborn, I will argue that I am not arrogant. I can give you the names of 10 SDN'ers who I have gone out of my way to help. Stubborn...meh.
And sir, I am confused. You spent a good amount of posts arguing with me in favor of academic deficient applicants. And then you do your darnest to attack me for being academically deficient? It's like you are condemning racism while going full Mel Gibson.

 

[UltimateHombre]

Mod.... please close this thread... the scenario is pure hypothetical speculation. The trolls feast, while the pre-dents get nothing from this thread.

:troll:

 

[aelian]

Mod.... please close this thread... the scenario is pure hypothetical speculation. The trolls feast, while the pre-dents get nothing from this thread.

:troll:

Would the trolls happen to be feasting on doughnuts or feasting on individuals feasting on doughnuts? 😕
Yes, the question is too ambiguous and the discussion shifted from that to argument.
CLOSE. 👍👍👍

 

[DonutEater]

Yes, make fun of my id. You sound very intelligent. Wow, did I care what you got in RC? lol what was the point in that?
Yes, good thing you know your not funny at all. I thought you admitted that having below average on either DAT or GPA has no competition against someone who has higher than average on both DAT and GPA. Yes, your DAT nor GPA is not higher than mine. Why all of a sudden bring in other criteria? You believe having communications skill is not a plus. Then, why is EC's or LOR's any more important than interview?
Your arguments and your belief in your chances do not correlate. Here is an idea, think before you write stuff on the forum lol.
From what you've been arguing the whole time, you have no chance whatsoever.
I am attacking you for being academically deficient because that is what you been arguing against and I'm trying to see how you react to it since you are at the low end of the spectrum. lol

Aelian's is talking nonsense lol. This guy should be banned. All he does is argue that students with good stats have higher chance and he goes off saying he has a darn good chance lol. pure ignorant. I'm happy i'm in competition with this type of applicant. Wait, he only applies to Texas schools.. lol. End of Thread! CLOSE! lol 👍👍👍👍

 

[UltimateHombre]

@ Doughnut and ealien:

your immaturity is down right embarrassing.... more than likely your egotistical, jack a** attitudes will not allow the other one to have the last say. Please prove me wrong by not writing another post at each other and may this thread RIP.

 

[coolslugs]

Let's say there are two applicants that the Admissions Committee must decide on who to choose to fill their last spot.

Both of them scored an interview. Applicant A has below average on either gpa or DAT but is above average on the other. He was able to speak english properly and was able to carry on the conversation and impressed the Interviewer with conmmunication skills. Applicant B has above average on both gpa and DAT. But, cannot speak english and at the time of interview when asked to write an essay wrote as if a high schooler wrote it. The english does not flow and was awkard at the interview.

Who do you guys think the Admissions Committee will choose? Please do not argue about others' opinions.

P.S. Applicant A is US Citizen and Applicant B is International Student.

P.P.S. if any of your guys talked to Admissions Committee about this topic, what did they say? thanks

On second thought, applicant B may have an advantage if his/her goal is to learn the best dentistry in the world, then return to his/her home country to help the people there. In that case, applicant B would only need to know enough English to get through dental school. He/she can be an excellent candidate for dental research as well.

 

[highhopee]

Ban these two immature kids. Just close this $h1t already.

 

[AmpedUp]

Did you make this thread because you were a victim of what you've described here? 😉

I naturally sympathize with Applicant A, because I feel the strongest quality a dentist should have is a connection with their patients through effective and clear communication. However, I can understand how Applicant B can take that seat, although I'm not going comment or question their level of performance as dentists - I'm sure they'll make it past dental school though...I imagine Applicant B would make the effort to improve writing and speech skills.

 

[aelian]

Ban these two immature kids. Just close this $h1t already.

Looking back, it was pretty immature.

Getting back to the OP's question, I think we would need more details before we can make an accurate, well-informed decision.