What are your thoughts on cheating on an exam?

[rifle4802]

Ok I got it now. So wait, what exactly is your concern?

Nothing. I don't have any concerns. What are you even talking about?

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[Chipster.]

I've said this before but... I think that because these people know him he's actually less likely to get into the schools than someone they didn't know. Being the POS that he is and all.

 

[DermViser]

I've said this before but... I think that because these people know him he's actually less likely to get into the schools than someone they didn't know. Being the POS that he is and all.

You're probably right. Even the stealthiest med students can't hide his/her real personality, 24/7.

 

[mehc012]

Sense. This makes none.

Med schools (as a whole) can choose the top 50% of applicants. They could, theoretically, accept only applicants who were above average.
Residencies (as a whole) do not have that ability, as the majority of med graduates match. Thus, both above average and below average applicants obtain residency slots.

Now, of course this falls apart when you are talking about a specific, selective residency, but if you are talking about getting into a 'good' residency in general, or one in a specific field, it becomes important. Not everyone 'has the Step score' - being above average on scores does make you stand out, to a certain extent, whereas for med school applications it is required to get your app through the door in the first place.

 

[487806]

Nothing. I don't have any concerns. What are you even talking about?

Why did you post this thread in the first place?

 

[rifle4802]

Such black and white elementary school level thinking proves you won't do well on the MCAT and likely won't get past the BS meters of admissions committees. Your GPA means nothing without institutional context.

Oh, psst....there's this thing called "malpractice" and "peer review". You might want to research these things before you say that "crummiest nobody doctors in this country can easily clear 150K simply by virtue of being a doctor." Once again your elementary school, black and white, one step thinking coming into play.

A 3.92 GPA means everything. It gives me a leg up over most of my competition and is a major advantage. Do you know how many people withdraw from/retake classes, do these "post-bacc" programs, study hard, etc? There isn't any stronger evidence of why GPA is so critical for an acceptance. Once you've blown it, it's an uphill climb the entire way. It's absolutely absurd to say that GPA means nothing without "institutional context."

In general doctors make great money. Not good, not above average, but great. It's an irrefutable fact and nothing you've posted suggests otherwise.

 

[487806]

A 3.92 GPA means everything. It gives me a leg up over most of my competition and is a major advantage. Do you know how many people withdraw from/retake classes, do these "post-bacc" programs, study hard, etc? There isn't any stronger evidence of why GPA is so critical for an acceptance. Once you've blown it, it's an uphill climb the entire way. It's absolutely absurd to say that GPA means nothing without "institutional context."

In general doctors make great money. Not good, not above average, but great. It's an irrefutable fact and nothing you've posted suggests otherwise.

What is your view on grade inflation?

 

[DermViser]

A 3.92 GPA means everything. It gives me a leg up over most of my competition and is a major advantage. Do you know how many people withdraw from/retake classes, do these "post-bacc" programs, study hard, etc? There isn't any stronger evidence of why GPA is so critical for an acceptance. Once you've blown it, it's an uphill climb the entire way. It's absolutely absurd to say that GPA means nothing without "institutional context."

In general doctors make great money. Not good, not above average, but great. It's an irrefutable fact and nothing you've posted suggests otherwise.

You think medical schools aren't smart enough to realize the level of competition at different schools? Or the amount of GPA inflation/deflation that occurs? Which is why certain schools GPAs are multiplied by a factor. You truly are naive, but think you know it all.

 

[rifle4802]

What is your view on grade inflation?

Means absolutely nothing. A 3.8 beats a 3.6 every time. A 3.9 beats a 3.7 every time.

The whole grade inflation thing is more of a self-comforting argument used by people who have low GPAs to make themselves feel better about their chances of getting in.

Might not be fair, but that's the way the game is played.

 

[DermViser]

What is your view on grade inflation?

It serves it's purpose as his GPA has unduly inflated his ego, more than Helium could have achieved.

 

[mehc012]

Means absolutely nothing. A 3.8 beats a 3.6 every time. A 3.9 beats a 3.7 every time.

The whole grade inflation thing is more of a self-comforting argument used by people who have low GPAs to make themselves feel better about their chances of getting in.

Might not be fair, but that's the way the game is played.

I...I actually agree with you.
And yeah, I have a low GPA from a school which tends to breed low GPAs...and yet I concur 100%.

Not sure why people are arguing this point, other than that you are a tool who SDN has apparently decided to yell at (I approve), as every other freaking thread is about how little difference undergrad rep/grade deflation reputation will help you if you eff up that GPA.
GPA is king, long live the king, grade inflation sucks.

 

[487806]

Means absolutely nothing. A 3.8 beats a 3.6 every time. A 3.9 beats a 3.7 every time.

The whole grade inflation thing is more of a self-comforting argument used by people who have low GPAs to make themselves feel better about their chances of getting in.

Might not be fair, but that's the way the game is played.

So is the difference between a 4.0 and 3.9 greater/less/same as the difference between a 3.8 and 3.7?

 

[WillburCobb]

I...I actually agree with you.
And yeah, I have a low GPA from a school which tends to breed low GPAs...and yet I concur 100%.

Not sure why people are arguing this point, other than that you are a tool who SDN has apparently decided to yell at (I approve), as every other freaking thread is about how little difference undergrad rep/grade deflation reputation will help you if you eff up that GPA.
GPA is king, long live the king, grade inflation sucks.

Jesus Christ...

 

[DermViser]

Means absolutely nothing. A 3.8 beats a 3.6 every time. A 3.9 beats a 3.7 every time.

The whole grade inflation thing is more of a self-comforting argument used by people who have low GPAs to make themselves feel better about their chances of getting in.

Might not be fair, but that's the way the game is played.

WRONG. GPAs from certain schools are multiplied by a factor for a reason by admissions committees. All GPAs are not looked at the same.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Sorry we're not as smart as you. Maybe someday we'll learn to scoff at people who respond to interesting discussions (even if purposely inflammatory or fake) for their stupidity instead of participating, because it's SO much better.

Down with troll-hunting.

Who said you're stupid? Could be that I just identify trolls more easily due to experience, but if you think you're stupid, that's your prerogative.

 

[DermViser]

I...I actually agree with you.
And yeah, I have a low GPA from a school which tends to breed low GPAs...and yet I concur 100%.

Not sure why people are arguing this point, other than that you are a tool who SDN has apparently decided to yell at (I approve), as every other freaking thread is about how little difference undergrad rep/grade deflation reputation will help you if you eff up that GPA.
GPA is king, long live the king, grade inflation sucks.

Except the SDN definition of "effing" up GPA is quite skewed.

 

[Saxappeal1]

Ignorance is bliss, and OP is overjoyed.

 

[XmedBarney]

Means absolutely nothing. A 3.8 beats a 3.6 every time. A 3.9 beats a 3.7 every time.

The whole grade inflation thing is more of a self-comforting argument used by people who have low GPAs to make themselves feel better about their chances of getting in.

Might not be fair, but that's the way the game is played.

Yeah, it's not. My school is famous for deflation, and our average applicant's GPA ~ is around the national average, but our admissions rate crosses 80%. It's school reputation dummy. People will admit the 3.4 from Harvard over a 3.6 from CC all day long, reputation plays a role.

 

[487806]

Except the SDN definition of "effing" up GPA is quite skewed.

3.2 and below --> you're screwed
3.2-3.5 --> lots of grade repair and apply DO
3.5-3.8 --> average and apply broadly to MD and DO
3.8+ --> you're ballin'
4.0 --> free ride at HMS

Seems legit to me. Inflation helps to bump you up. Deflation screws you over. Reputation means nothing

 

[Boolean]

3.2 and below --> you're screwed
3.2-3.5 --> lots of grade repair and apply DO
3.5-3.8 --> average and apply broadly to MD and DO
3.8+ --> you're ballin'
4.0 --> free ride at HMS

Seems legit to me. Inflation helps to bump you up. Deflation screws you over. Reputation means nothing

cGPA, sGPA or both? (Just curious)

 

[487806]

cGPA, sGPA or both? (Just curious)

Both

 

[Boolean]

Both

Alright. Thank you for the clarification!

 

[DermViser]

3.2 and below --> you're screwed
3.2-3.5 --> lots of grade repair and apply DO
3.5-3.8 --> average and apply broadly to MD and DO
3.8+ --> you're ballin'
4.0 --> free ride at HMS
Seems legit to me. Inflation helps to bump you up. Deflation screws you over. Reputation means nothing

Yeah right, a 4.0 gets you a free ride at HMS? Give me a break. That's why you see a majority of many 4.0 GPAs from state school grads at top tier or high quality medical schools (i.e. Baylor, etc.), oh wait.

 

[DermViser]

Unlike med school applications, when there are more applicants than spots and the schools can afford to choose only those with the high numbers, the residency process, by its very nature, pretty much guarantees that not everyone has the Step 1 score, grades, and letters. It just can't work that way - when 95% of the applicant pool is bound to get in somewhere, there will be people above and below average on grades and scores.

This also varies highly by specialty choice as well where nothing is guaranteed even with great Step scores, great grades, and good letters.

 

[DermViser]

Yeah, it's not. My school is famous for deflation, and our average applicant's GPA ~ is around the national average, but our admissions rate crosses 80%. It's school reputation dummy. People will admit the 3.4 from Harvard over a 3.6 from CC all day long, reputation plays a role.

Bingo. Swartmore and Princeton for example, are KNOWN for grade deflation. But don't worry, they'll take the 4.0 GPA from University of Florida. Idiots.

 

[Mel Belle]

Perhaps not at your school, but I don't need/want to get into your school. There are hundreds of schools out there and I know people at enough of them for me to be a shoo-in.

Um, you don't even know what school she works for. Lmao. For all you know, she could be faculty at your #1 choice school.

 

[lnvictus]

OK play time is over guys, OP has trolled SDN and several adcoms to hell and back, let's wrap it up already. Am I the only one who misses the pirate day prank BTW, it made all these posts funny to read

 

[rifle4802]

WRONG. GPAs from certain schools are multiplied by a factor for a reason by admissions committees. All GPAs are not looked at the same.

Seriously, it astounds me to no end that you not only believe such unsubstantiated drivel, but that you so shamelessly pass it off as fact. Highly doubtful you've been through medical school.

It's not true at all. No one cares about grade inflation/deflation. Schools are absolutely aware of it, but it does not matter when comparing the GPAs of two applicants. It may not be fair, but it's reality. Go back and read what mehc012 has to say on it. He/she has every reason to support your theory as it would better his/her chances of getting in if it were true... but it's not.

 

[rifle4802]

Um, you don't even know what school she works for. Lmao. For all you know, she could be faculty at your #1 choice school.

Who cares? She can only be faculty at one school, and there are hundreds of other schools out there where she has no clout whatsoever and my own relatives do. All I need to do is get into one of those schools.

 

[XmedBarney]

Seriously, it astounds me to no end that you not only believe such unsubstantiated drivel, but that you so shamelessly pass it off as fact. Highly doubtful you've been through medical school.

It's not true at all. No one cares about grade inflation/deflation. Schools are absolutely aware of it, but it does not matter when comparing the GPAs of two applicants. It may not be fair, but it's reality. Go back and read what mehc012 has to say on it. He/she has every reason to support your theory as it would better his/her chances of getting in if it were true... but it's not.

Resorting to ad hominem attacks OP? tsk..tsk...

The reputation of an undergrad institution def matters, especially if you performed well. This doesn't necessarily mean that a kid from state schools
has no chance, they can certainly be competitive, but they do have to show it by some other means along with their GPA. em-cat, maybe?

 

[XmedBarney]

Who cares? She can only be faculty at one school, and there are hundreds of other schools out there where she has no clout whatsoever and my own relatives do. All I need to do is get into one of those schools.

OK OP. Good Luck.

I'm out.

 

[487806]

Yeah right, a 4.0 gets you a free ride at HMS? Give me a break. That's why you see a majority of many 4.0 GPAs from state school grads at top tier or high quality medical schools (i.e. Baylor, etc.), oh wait.

Sarcasm meter broken?

 

[DermViser]

Seriously, it astounds me to no end that you not only believe such unsubstantiated drivel, but that you so shamelessly pass it off as fact. Highly doubtful you've been through medical school.

It's not true at all. No one cares about grade inflation/deflation. Schools are absolutely aware of it, but it does not matter when comparing the GPAs of two applicants. It may not be fair, but it's reality. Go back and read what mehc012 has to say on it. He/she has every reason to support your theory as it would better his/her chances of getting in if it were true... but it's not.

Like I said, I have NOTHING to prove to you. You are not a special snowflake, as much as you may be convinced you are. Just bc your worldview is largely shallow, black-and-white, and devoid of any nuance, is not my problem. mehc012 is a premed like yourself.

As I said, medical school admissions committees will multiply certain known hard schools GPAs by a difficulty factor as those schools are KNOWN for grade deflation such as Swarthmore or Princeton. They know students game the system, by going to easy schools. By your logic they would take the 4.0 University of Florida grad over the Swartmore/Princeton grad who got a 3.8, and you would be WRONG.

 

[DermViser]

Resorting to ad hominem attacks OP? tsk..tsk...

The reputation of an undergrad institution def matters, especially if you performed well. This doesn't necessarily mean that a kid from state schools
has no chance, they can certainly be competitive, but they do have to show it by some other means along with their GPA. em-cat, maybe?

That's what happens when you have a black-and-white world with no nuance: major doesn't matter (i.e. Sociology vs. Molecular/Cell Biology major), institution doesn't matter (University of Florida vs. UC Berkeley), etc. Nope, just the number matters. As if committees don't know about how students game the system.

 

[Saxappeal1]

.../sigh guys we can't let the troll win... we need to all unrustle our jimmies and get back to our lives, let OP think his thoughts and do his thing. It isn't worth any more of our valuable time to waste our efforts trying to explain reason to this ignorant person. We need to spend our time helping each other, helping people who deserve it on this forum who are grateful, not arrogant and ignorant like OP. I'm out of here.

 

[mehc012]

Jesus Christ...

What? A low GPA = worse than a high GPA. I don't understand why this is suddenly a debate.

Grade inflation/deflation reputation only exists in a limited number of schools, and matters a little.
Institution reputation matters to a certain extent on its own, but does not compensate for a low GPA.
GPA is not the only factor or even necessarily the most important one...but I do not understand why we are suddenly pretending it's not key.

Can you succeed with a low GPA? I sure hope so, otherwise I'm wasting a lot of time/money on this postbacc. Clearly, I don't think a low uGPA is insurmountable...but it is something that needs to be surmounted.

 

[mehc012]

This also varies highly by specialty choice as well where nothing is guaranteed even with great Step scores, great grades, and good letters.

That is true...as I said, it breaks down the more specific you are with your goals. If you want to get into the #1 Derm residency in the country (in a pretend world where everyone's personal rankings are the same and this is #1, lol), then yeah, you will be competing against the cream of the crop. I was merely pointing out the gross difference between med school admissions, as a whole, where the number of slots is <<< than the number of applicants, and the match as a whole, where that is less true.

Like I said, I have NOTHING to prove to you. You are not a special snowflake, as much as you may be convinced you are. Just bc your worldview is largely shallow, black-and-white, and devoid of any nuance, is not my problem. mehc012 is a premed like yourself.

I'm not sure what I did to be lumped in here? I think that GPA matters. Other factors do come into play, and there is a lot more to an app than pure numbers. But a high GPA is better than a low GPA.
I'm not going to change my tune just because I think OP is a tool. To use one of the most cliché clichés ever, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[487806]

.../sigh guys we can't let the troll win... we need to all unrustle our jimmies and get back to our lives, let OP think his thoughts and do his thing. It isn't worth any more of our valuable time to waste our efforts trying to explain reason to this ignorant person. We need to spend our time helping each other, helping people who deserve it on this forum who are grateful, not arrogant and ignorant like OP. I'm out of here.

Sorry. jimmies need to be rustled. Another warrior bites the dust...

OP, there is hope!

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

.../sigh guys we can't let the troll win... we need to all unrustle our jimmies and get back to our lives, let OP think his thoughts and do his thing. It isn't worth any more of our valuable time to waste our efforts trying to explain reason to this ignorant person. We need to spend our time helping each other, helping people who deserve it on this forum who are grateful, not arrogant and ignorant like OP. I'm out of here.

You're trying to be reasonable. These are the internets, though.

 

[487806]

You're trying to be reasonable. These are the internets, though.

Interwebz iz srs bsns. just like ur zombie pancreas

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Interwebz iz srs bsns. just like ur zombie pancreas

I had no idea how serious the interwebz wuz until I joined SDN. ****'s for REAL on this virtual community.

That pancreas needs some whipplin, amiRIGHT?

 

[487806]

I had no idea how serious the interwebz wuz until I joined SDN. ****'s for REAL on this virtual community.

That pancreas needs some whipplin, amiRIGHT?

#AgentBpassesOut

I'm screwed for surgery rotation... can't... hold... pee... for... so... long..

 

[mehc012]

#AgentBpassesOut

I'm screwed for surgery rotation... can't... hold... pee... for... so... long..

Oh man, that's like the ONE thing I'm prepared for in med school. I pee like, 2x/day, even when I'm hydrated. 3-4x tops.
When I'm dehydrated, I can go for 36hrs (albeit in a fair amount of discomfort/eventually pain).
Rubber bladder, steel sphincter?

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

#AgentBpassesOut

I'm screwed for surgery rotation... can't... hold... pee... for... so... long..

Foley cath FTW! ?

 

[DermViser]

That is true...as I said, it breaks down the more specific you are with your goals. If you want to get into the #1 Derm residency in the country (in a pretend world where everyone's personal rankings are the same and this is #1, lol), then yeah, you will be competing against the cream of the crop. I was merely pointing out the gross difference between med school admissions, as a whole, where the number of slots is <<< than the number of applicants, and the match as a whole, where that is less true.

Once again it depends on the specialty you're applying to. Tell that to those who didn't match into a particular specialty.

 

[XmedBarney]

#AgentBpassesOut

I'm screwed for surgery rotation... can't... hold... pee... for... so... long..

Uz not tryin, if u gotz no folez.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Ismet]

I think this thread has been derailed enough. Closing.