What can a DO do that an MD cannot?

[manfood.com]

I am just curious as to what a DO CAN or CANNOT do that an MD CAN or CANNOT do. I want to know some differences before I actually delve into applying to a DO school. Anything would be helpful. I would love to understand the passion of some of the DO students or candidates so I can enhance my knowledge of the field. Thank you so much.

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[OSUdoc08]

I am just curious as to what a DO CAN or CANNOT do that an MD CAN or CANNOT do. I want to know some differences before I actually delve into applying to a DO school. Anything would be helpful. I would love to understand the passion of some of the DO students or candidates so I can enhance my knowledge of the field. Thank you so much.

-Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine -->
--diagnosis of somatic dysfunction
--treatment of somatic dysfunction
--Better skilled at diagnosis of musculoskeletal injuries before diagnostic
tests
-AOA Osteopathic Residencies, Internships, & Fellowships

-Anything M.D.'s can do (including all M.D. Residencies, Internships, & Fellowships)

 

[Dr Sum Day]

I am just curious as to what a DO CAN or CANNOT do that an MD CAN or CANNOT do. I want to know some differences before I actually delve into applying to a DO school. Anything would be helpful. I would love to understand the passion of some of the DO students or candidates so I can enhance my knowledge of the field. Thank you so much.

D.O. = M.D. + OMM (do a search) is the primary difference

Others can argue philosophy, but M.D.'s can have the same, at the one I shadowed.

I have little healthcare experience, so I'll let others with the experience tell you more. 👍

 

[donvicious]

There are a couple of notable differences.

Besides the obvious extra OMM training we get in school, the DO can bill for this treatment while an MD cannot. This is good to supplement your practice and is most relevant for primary care.

DO can apply to MD residecies, but DOs currently have their own residency programs that MDs are excluded from. The flip side of this coin is that many ultra competitive MD programs are biased and few if any DOs can get into these (integrated plastics).

You'll also find that the vast majority of DO-only residencies are in primary care and the AOA has not even set up programs for some very specialized residencies.

 

[OSUdoc08]

There are a couple of notable differences.

Besides the obvious extra OMM training we get in school, the DO can bill for this treatment while an MD cannot. This is good to supplement your practice and is most relevant for primary care.

DO can apply to MD residecies, but DOs currently have their own residency programs that MDs are excluded from. The flip side of this coin is that many ultra competitive MD programs are biased and few if any DOs can get into these (integrated plastics).

You'll also find that the vast majority of DO-only residencies are in primary care and the AOA has not even set up programs for some very specialized residencies.

This is correct, but many AOA residencies are very specialized, and it is possible to get a residency through ACGME (allopathic) in any specialty that is not included in AOA.

 

[smc927]

I learned recently from a nurse who has a masters and teaches at my school that there is an interesting limitation - at least in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania has a lot of Nurse Practitioners. They can write prescriptions and so some other doctor-like things that "regular" nurses cannot do. However, they must do so in practice under the direct supervision of an M.D. A D.O. will not do, it just isn't legal here, for whatever reason. A D.O. has full medical practicing rights otherwise, just can't supervice a nurse practitioner. It seems to me that the biggest downside to this is that M.D.s in family practice use Nurse Practitioners to relieve some of their burdon. A D.O. in family practice wouldn't have that luxury.

 

[JonnyG]

D.O.'s in PA can have nurse practicioners (my sis-in-law works for one), BUT the AOA of PA refuses to let a nurse practitioner write their own prescriptions. The AOA wants more supervision of the nurse practitioners and its not a question of legality, the AOA just does not endorse its practice for its members.

 

[Old_Mil]

I learned recently from a nurse who has a masters and teaches at my school that there is an interesting limitation - at least in Pennsylvania.

From what I've understood, though, you really wouldn't want to practice in PA or WV due to the malpractice situation in those two states anyway.

 

[dynamicrhythm17]

From what I've understood, though, you really wouldn't want to practice in PA or WV due to the malpractice situation in those two states anyway.

wonder if it is because of the np's writing prescriptions? 😀

 

[manfood.com]

DO's can get residencies in surgery and anesthesiology? Just curious. thanks.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

DO's can get residencies in surgery and anesthesiology? Just curious. thanks.

So you have no clue what an osteopathic physician is? Just curious. thanks.

 

[Dr Sum Day]

DO's can get residencies in surgery and anesthesiology? Just curious. thanks.

I saw a D.O. plastic surgeon on TV, I forgot the channel, but he wore black scrubs.

 

[uclabruin2003]

as a DO if you want a MD residency (for most anyways)...you will have to take COMLEX and USMLE.

it may be more challenging for a DO to get a MD specialty residency

MDs can not do any of the cool OMM stuff....

if you want to do research....more MD schools are more conducive to that than DO schools..thats why Im doing MD!

 

[stoic]

DO's can get residencies in surgery and anesthesiology? Just curious. thanks.

Any, absolutely any, residency an MD can do a DO can do.

period.

 

[pratik7]

There are some limitations on practicing international medicine. I have only heard about them and havent really read much into

 

[DrMom]

There are some limitations on practicing international medicine. I have only heard about them and havent really read much into

That is not true.

 

[OSUdoc08]

DO's can get residencies in surgery and anesthesiology? Just curious. thanks.

Well, since I told you earlier on this thread that D.O.'s can do any M.D. residency, then ask yourself:

Can MD's can get residencies in surgery and anesthesiology?

 

[donvicious]

That is not true.

Could you please elaborate. I thought it was widely accepted that the majority of other countries do not recognize the DO as equivalent to the MD, and thus practice rights are limited.

According to the AOA president (who spoke at my school last month) in the UK osteopaths have no wish to become full practicing physicians because they make more money than physicians who are paid by the goverment. There is also a recent thread on SDN about Canada only recently granting equal practice rights to DOs.

Are you refering to practicing under the auspices of Doctors without Borders, WHO, UN, etc?

 

[dynamicrhythm17]

Could you please elaborate. I thought it was widely accepted that the majority of other countries do not recognize the DO as equivalent to the MD, and thus practice rights are limited.

According to the AOA president (who spoke at my school last month) in the UK osteopaths have no wish to become full practicing physicians because they make more money than physicians who are paid by the goverment. There is also a recent thread on SDN about Canada only recently granting equal practice rights to DOs.

Are you refering to practicing under the auspices of Doctors without Borders, WHO, UN, etc?

you both are close but not quite accurate. this question LARGELY varies by country. for instance some countries will only allow MDs from five usa medical schools, if you are a USA MD but not from one of those five schools, you are out of luck.

for the most part, there are countries that will not allow foreign docs to practice there to protect its native docs. the countries that WILL allow USA docs to practice normally let both MDs and DOs practice there. the even fewer countries that allow USA MDs but not USA DOs are the countries that have native DOs that are not currently trained as complete physicians. because of this, the country makes the distinction. and even this is begining to change some. i know austrailia was like this and there have been a few USA DOs allowed to practice there recently.

some countries will give you an honorary MD degree if you actually go there and practice for like a year or something if you are a DO.

essentially, the countries that allow USA MDs will normally allow USA DOs.

there are a number of threads on this topic, you should do a search for them...

hth...

 

[DD214_DOC]

Let's rephrase this question by replacing the degree nonsense.

"What can a physician do that a physician cannot?"

Sounds pretty stupid to ask it now, doesn't it?

With the recent information regarding OMM programs for MDs (and MDs can learn OMM if they are inclined to do so) there really isn't much of a difference between the two anymore.

 

[EMTLizzy]

With the recent information regarding OMM programs for MDs (and MDs can learn OMM if they are inclined to do so) there really isn't much of a difference between the two anymore.

I'd argue there's still a phiosophical difference in the approach to teaching. Maybe it's something that could only be seen if someone attended both schools.

Not to turn this into the ever-hated thread, but if you check out some of the posts on the allo forums, the stress level seems to be much higher during the interview process (one mentioned being referred to by his undergrad school rather than by name in the interview group) and once in school (ie more "hard core" faculty who are not friendly and helpful).

In truth, this is something that will vary by individual school rather than type of school, but I don't see many of these threads on our forums.

 

[EMTLizzy]

I saw a D.O. plastic surgeon on TV, I forgot the channel, but he wore black scrubs.

That's it! That's what we tell people when they ask us what a DO is. We tell them it's just like an MD, but we wear black scrubs.

I always did look good in black. 😎

 

[DD214_DOC]

I think the biopsychosocial model of healthcare, which is essentially what the DO philosophy is, is integrated into allopathic medicine pretty well. With regards to OMM, there really isn't very good research to support it, aside from the recent study regarding its efficacy in treating back pain. I think other aspects of it border on bad medicine. (One of the students a the VCOM interview was talking about, "Cranial CPR", and it took every ounce of my being to refrain from laughing at her)

The only real difference I have observed with my experience with both MD and DO physicians is the personality differences of those who practice, but this has less to do with the school. I love DOs and all, but let's quit pretending there's a huge difference between the two.

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

as a DO if you want a MD residency (for most anyways)...you will have to take COMLEX and USMLE.

it may be more challenging for a DO to get a MD specialty residency

MDs can not do any of the cool OMM stuff....

if you want to do research....more MD schools are more conducive to that than DO schools..thats why Im doing MD!

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Let me just briefly say.......You are wrong!

 

[DrMom]

Could you please elaborate. I thought it was widely accepted that the majority of other countries do not recognize the DO as equivalent to the MD, and thus practice rights are limited.

According to the AOA president (who spoke at my school last month) in the UK osteopaths have no wish to become full practicing physicians because they make more money than physicians who are paid by the goverment. There is also a recent thread on SDN about Canada only recently granting equal practice rights to DOs.

Are you refering to practicing under the auspices of Doctors without Borders, WHO, UN, etc?

Needy countries will let US physicians come in and provide free medical care.

If you want to move to another country to live & practice there, the vast majority will allow US DOs to become licensed and a big chunk of those who don't also don't let US MDs to become licensed. In reality, very few of us (DO or MD) will end up living & practicing in another country anywasy, so this is largely irrelevant.

If you want to see a list, there's a sticky in pre-osteo (I belive) that has a link to a list of countries and their licensure policies for US DOs.

 

[uclabruin2003]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Let me just briefly say.......You are wrong!

I am not wrong...well on the most part...

as a DO if you want a MD residency (for most anyways)...you will have to take COMLEX and USMLE.

=> I said for most MD residencies you will have to take both...that should be true...Does anyone have proof otherwise?

it may be more challenging for a DO to get a MD specialty residency

=> It may be more challenging...just bc the system is so f#$%ED that some physicians do discriminate against DO...plus I would say that there are more prestigious MD schools than DO.

MDs can not do any of the cool OMM stuff....

=>I guess I am sorta wrong..I mean an MD can learn OMM....

if you want to do research....more MD schools are more conducive to that than DO schools..thats why Im doing MD!

=> Yes MORE MD schools are MORE conducive to reserach that DO schools. I didnt say that if you were in a DO school that you couldnt do reserach its probably just harder. Less funding than many MD schools, less focus on it, etc.

In all, you have to read what I write more carefully.

Thanks for playing the game.

 

[Dr Sum Day]

That's it! That's what we tell people when they ask us what a DO is. We tell them it's just like an MD, but we wear black scrubs.

I always did look good in black. 😎

First time I ever saw black scrubs, like a pirate

 

[DubZteR]

There are some limitations on practicing international medicine. I have only heard about them and havent really read much into


REPLY: That is not true.

I'm from Canada and my understanding was D.O's are only allowed to practice in certain provinces? Am I misguided in thinking this?

Thanks

 

[tkim]

I'm from Canada and my understanding was D.O's are only allowed to practice in certain provinces? Am I misguided in thinking this?

Thanks

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1230779&postcount=2

 

[DubZteR]

Let's rephrase this question by replacing the degree nonsense.

"What can a physician do that a physician cannot?"

Sounds pretty stupid to ask it now, doesn't it?

It seems like a very fair question to me. There's no need to rude!

 

[DubZteR]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1230779&postcount=2

Thanks 🙂

 

[Docgeorge]

There are a couple of notable differences.

Besides the obvious extra OMM training we get in school, the DO can bill for this treatment while an MD cannot. This is good to supplement your practice and is most relevant for primary care.

Wrong on this one. Our OMM prof says they can learn OMM and bill for it.

 

[manfood.com]

So you have no clue what an osteopathic physician is? Just curious. thanks.

I love it how you have to be a smart ass about it. Is it cuz you are part of the class of 2009 that warrants you to be a smart ass? Sorry, but people like you on forums are the reason why people leave em, and why these forums can get a little unhelpful. Sorry, but I'm a bit tired of the online smart asses.

 

[DubZteR]

Let's rephrase this question by replacing the degree nonsense.

"What can a physician do that a physician cannot?"

Sounds pretty stupid to ask it now, doesn't it?

there really isn't much of a difference between the two anymore.

So after reading the thread on DO's in Canada, it would seem that DO's still haven't received unlimited scope of practice in some of the provinces. Next time, try to do a little more research to make it seem like you do know what you are talking about before you blast off in your negative criticism!

 

[OSUdoc08]

I love it how you have to be a smart ass about it. Is it cuz you are part of the class of 2009 that warrants you to be a smart ass? Sorry, but people like you on forums are the reason why people leave em, and why these forums can get a little unhelpful. Sorry, but I'm a bit tired of the online smart asses.

What's funny is that he isn't even in medical school yet to know what he is talking about.

 

[Kevbot]

OK, here are the facts:

A D.O. can be accepted to any allopathic residency type

Internationally, there are places where D.O. does not have the same status as M.D. such as a few provinces of Canada (ie Vancouver). This is gradually changing.

In the US there is completely equal status.

Potential salaries of M.D. and D.O. in the same field are equal.

As to the question of whether D.O.'s are more likely to get residencies; check out one of UMDNJ-SOM's recently graduated class residency lists. It's actually quite impressive.

http://www.acofp.org/state/Match ...20of 2002.htm

 

[docbill]

Update... Almost all provinces in Canada including BC accepts DOs, Sask and one other doesn't.

BC, ON, ALB, MAN, ON, QC, NB, the teritiories do for SURE.

 

[bigbassinbob]

As to the question of whether D.O.'s are more likely to get residencies; check out one of UMDNJ-SOM's recently graduated class residency lists. It's actually quite impressive.

http://www.acofp.org/state/Match ...20of 2002.htm

The link doesn't seem to be working, could you check to see if that's the right url? I'm really interested to see it.

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

I am not wrong...well on the most part...

as a DO if you want a MD residency (for most anyways)...you will have to take COMLEX and USMLE.

=> I said for most MD residencies you will have to take both...that should be true...Does anyone have proof otherwise?

it may be more challenging for a DO to get a MD specialty residency

=> It may be more challenging...just bc the system is so f#$%ED that some physicians do discriminate against DO...plus I would say that there are more prestigious MD schools than DO.

MDs can not do any of the cool OMM stuff....

=>I guess I am sorta wrong..I mean an MD can learn OMM....

if you want to do research....more MD schools are more conducive to that than DO schools..thats why Im doing MD!

=> Yes MORE MD schools are MORE conducive to reserach that DO schools. I didnt say that if you were in a DO school that you couldnt do reserach its probably just harder. Less funding than many MD schools, less focus on it, etc.

In all, you have to read what I write more carefully.

Thanks for playing the game.

Actually....in all seriousness.......you are still very wrong. But that's ok.
I won't get into a discussion about this mainly because you haven't even started medical school.

One of the main problems for pre-med students is that you hear one thing and you run with it. Next thing you know, word gets around and everyone believes something to be true. In all actuality, the reality of many of the "pre-med myths" are unfounded and completely false. I was guilty of believing many of them myself.

You have to understand that at least 50% of DO students end up going into allopathic residency programs. And the number of DO students who sit for the usmle is less than that.

As for the research......it is not more difficult for a DO student to do research. That is so far from the truth.

I wish you well in school, and I hope you do very well. But you will soon realize that there is not a lot of MD's who discriminate against DO's. That is one of the biggest pre-med myths around. No one has the time or childish energy to concern themselves with a ridiculous issue like that.

 

[Philo Beddo]

Lets face it, DO school is all about getting your sensual massage on.

A 45 y/o DO with "man-hands" came up behind me in the computer lab last year and started rubbing my neck. Thoughts, evil thoughts crossed my mind. When she was done, I got nauseous over it.

Philo

hippocritis.com <-----medical satire site, run by residents for YOU!

 

[manfood.com]

Hey SMLU, Thank you so much for the explanation. It really helped me out. thank you.

 

[docbill]

I'm from Canada and my understanding was D.O's are only allowed to practice in certain provinces? Am I misguided in thinking this?

Thanks

True! Tkim's post is correct.

However.. these things are changing fast and I would not be surprised it by the time you finish the rules are completely different... easier.

So far in Canada the problem is underexposure. When you only have 8-12 practicing DOs it makes it low key. But with media, www this will change fast. I think Canada should have a US style DO school (we do have one, but it is OMM school only). THis would complement our requirement for a healthier way of life and push for prevention.

 

[OldManDave]

Marvel at the ineptness & the magnitude of how out of touch with the real world is for the AOA. Of course, our MD colleagues have the AMA to wonder about as well. So, it gives us all something to lament.

Oh, we (DOs) can join both AOA & AMA giving us loads of cocktail-party ammo to banter about & make jokes.


😀 😀 😀 😀