What dental schools have a reputation for producing good clinical doctors and why?

[LidocaineMane32]

What US dental schools have a reputation for producing good clinical dentists?

what Kind of procedures do the dental students get to perform there that other schools might not let them do?

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[Molar Whisperer]

IMO, it doesn't matter where you go to DS as long as you graduate. Once you graduate, you only know about 5% of dentistry. I also noticed that DS requirements have been decreasing due to fewer patient numbers. For example, I graduated 11 years earlier than my sister at the same school. I had to cement 4 bridges vs her 1. A lot of her classmates did not have enough patients to fulfill requirements. My colleague only had to do 5 crowns. I had to do 30 units including 4 bridges. I actually had to prep 5 bridges since one of them moved out of state with my temp bridge...yeah, I made the temp too good.

When I was a dentist in the USAF, I met many from all over the country. One school, Case Western in Cleveland, OH was on the decline in the late 1990s. They had closed their Pediatric Dept (according to my training partner). I was wondering how that school retained their accreditation. We had various hands on training in San Antonio Lackland AFB (at the time it had the world's largest military hospital Wilford Hall). My training partner was from that school and she struggled with a routine class 2 filling for the longest time. Post grad residencies matter more than DS. In the military, there are 2 yr comprehensive residencies that train dentists to be specialists of everything (OS, endo, perio, prosth, etc) to practice in remote locations. I was so impressed with the comprehensive dentist at my base that I wanted to be one. He trained at a smaller base where he was able to do many complicated procedures. His replacement came from Lackland and the new guy only did amalgam crowns since residents in OS, endo, perio, etc did their cases (there weren't enough molar endo, implants, 3rds to go around).

I met dentists from almost every DS and I think those from UCLA, Washington, and Michigan do solid work. UT San Antonio is great for research due to USAF presence. I don't know anyone from Harvard.

 

[PerioDont]

What US dental schools have a reputation for producing good clinical dentists?

what Kind of procedures do the dental students get to perform there that other schools might not let them do?

If you are looking to be a great GP try going to a school with no specialties.

I am a West Coaster, so I know people from many of those schools. IMO MWU-AZ and Creighton give you more clinical experience than most other west coast schools if you push yourself. They don't have any residencies at either of those schools, students there were doing endo retreats, all-on-4s, impacted wisdom teeth and implant placement. I met a guy who placed 80 implants during dental school, another did 60 crowns.

that being said, I cannot truly recommend going to those schools unless you have military/NHSC as both of those are private schools and too expensive. I agree with @drcobad that it doesn't really matter that much, but if you have those experiences in school where you are doing more advanced procedures you will more likely be able to do those procedures outside with CE etc.

 

[TanMan]

School is mostly useless. The individual student matters more than the school and all you really need the school for is to pass your boards and to get a degree. Pick the path of least resistance and lowest cost. A DDS/DMD is a DDS/DMD, regardless from where (in the US accredited schools).

Even at those "clinically advanced" schools, doing 50-100 crowns is like a month's work in private practice and on top of it, you're constantly reinforcing the "dental school way" of doing things. Officially, the dental school way is almost always the worst way of doing things. Maybe doing more procedures in school is a confidence builder, but what we do isn't exactly rocket science.

Admittedly, my strength is endo and crowns. My weakness is impacted thirds, but I think that stems from lack of motivation to learn (due to poor insurance reimbursements and regulations that don't allow me to sedate multiple patients simultaneously). I did not learn much C&B and endo from school. I find that GPs in the real world have to do more complex/less predictable procedures since some are starving for procedures.

If you really want to perform procedures in dschool that most other places won't allow, pick one without post-grad programs. Post-grad programs tend to pick off a lot of difficult procedures.

Good luck!

 

[oralcare123]

It does matter where you go. Schools, which don't have a problem with patients, have good faculty - usually semiretired dentists are the best
I heard that LLU is good in that matter, but in Covid times every school will have patient problems. They also fired a lot of part-time faculty and now a lot of older ones retired to stay alive. Whatever faculty left is inexperienced and lazy with a few exceptions

 

[HatInTheCat]

Whichever gets you out the fastest and the cheapest is best IMO.

I guarantee Michigan or Augusta University doesn’t teach how to do an extraction or gold crown prep any differently than Columbia or UTHSCSA does.

Same end goal = DMD/DDS

 

[schmoob]

We had various hands on training in San Antonio Lackland AFB (at the time it had the world's largest military hospital Wilford Hall).

No way, man. Wilford Hall is not that big at all. It wasnt even the biggest in San Antonio, Brooke Army is/was bigger. Then there is Walter Reed, Portsmouth Naval, etc.
Lackland’s Dunn Dental Clinic is pretty big, but it’s really old. The new Air Force Dental Postgraduate School on Lackland is absolutely gorgeous though, it’s really nice. And there is a new Wilford Hall facility that is supposed to be really nice but I haven’t seen it.

They don't have any residencies at either of those schools, students there were doing endo retreats, all-on-4s, impacted wisdom teeth and implant placement. I met a guy who placed 80 implants during dental school, another did 60 crowns.

No way. No way. This is very advanced stuff, way beyond that of the dental curriculum. Maybe the FACULTY took over and did the procedures, but there is no way that students were doing this much and still getting the necessary didactics to maintain accreditation. 80 implants is more than a lot of 3 year prosth residency’s requirements.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

No way, man. Wilford Hall is not that big at all. It wasnt even the biggest in San Antonio, Brooke Army is/was bigger. Then there is Walter Reed, Portsmouth Naval, etc.
Lackland’s Dunn Dental Clinic is pretty big, but it’s really old. The new Air Force Dental Postgraduate School on Lackland is absolutely gorgeous though, it’s really nice. And there is a new Wilford Hall facility that is supposed to be really nice but I haven’t seen it.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (unsourced material)

Wilford Hall Ambulatory Surgical Center, formerly known as Wilford Hall Medical Center, is a U.S. Air Force medical treatment facility located on the grounds of San Antonio's Lackland Air Force Base. Operated by the 59th Medical Wing, Wilford Hall is the Defense Department's largest outpatient ambulatory surgical center, providing the full spectrum of primary care, specialty care, and outpatient surgery.

Back in year 2000 when I was there numerous times, people say it was. A few years later, people say a US Army hospital in Germany overtook it. I didn't verify it because I took their word for it. It doesn't matter to me because I don't have any emotional or financial interest in it. I should have wrote, "in the year 2000, it was one of the world's largest military medical ctr." Are we good man?

 

[PerioDont]

No way, man. Wilford Hall is not that big at all. It wasnt even the biggest in San Antonio, Brooke Army is/was bigger. Then there is Walter Reed, Portsmouth Naval, etc.
Lackland’s Dunn Dental Clinic is pretty big, but it’s really old. The new Air Force Dental Postgraduate School on Lackland is absolutely gorgeous though, it’s really nice. And there is a new Wilford Hall facility that is supposed to be really nice but I haven’t seen it.


No way. No way. This is very advanced stuff, way beyond that of the dental curriculum. Maybe the FACULTY took over and did the procedures, but there is no way that students were doing this much and still getting the necessary didactics to maintain accreditation. 80 implants is more than a lot of 3 year prosth residency’s requirements.

Thats fair I am guessing the faculty probably did take over many cases. However I should definitely state these are not the typical students but the real go-getters who are able to do more stuff.

Overall, my point was in schools with no residencies students that want to push themselves will be able to do a lot more variety of treatment as compared to schools with tons of specialties

 

[schmoob]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (unsourced material)

Wilford Hall Ambulatory Surgical Center, formerly known as Wilford Hall Medical Center, is a U.S. Air Force medical treatment facility located on the grounds of San Antonio's Lackland Air Force Base. Operated by the 59th Medical Wing, Wilford Hall is the Defense Department's largest outpatient ambulatory surgical center, providing the full spectrum of primary care, specialty care, and outpatient surgery.

Back in year 2000 when I was there numerous times, people say it was. A few years later, people say a US Army hospital in Germany overtook it. I didn't verify it because I took their word for it. It doesn't matter to me because I don't have any emotional or financial interest in it. I should have wrote, "in the year 2000, it was one of the world's largest military medical ctr." Are we good man?

I see. I was confused because it’s an outpatient ambulatory surgical center, so when you said hospital I took it as an inpatient medical center. Anyway the one you remember is gone and there is a nice new facility.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

I see. I was confused because it’s an outpatient ambulatory surgical center, so when you said hospital I took it as an inpatient medical center. Anyway the one you remember is gone and there is a nice new facility.

I just heard "Hospital." I didn't specify in or outpatient facility. One of my USAF colleagues had a masters in dental radiology. Around that time, his predecessor retired and they moved him there to be the USAF consultant for dental radiology. I hate to include inaccurate information so I'll try my best to provide it.

 

[Saddleshoes]

In the last decade I have been in a position to see 40-45 1st year dentists from D schools all over the county. Each one of these rookie doctors has strengths and weaknesses. There has been a clear pattern to me. The recent grads coming from old state university programs had better clinical skills than the ones from new private programs. This is/was especially true in the matter of "lab work" and "cutting skills".

Just the opinion of an old mentoring/supervising/attending/etc. dentist.

 

[2TH MVR]

Overall, my point was in schools with no residencies students that want to push themselves will be able to do a lot more variety of treatment as compared to schools with tons of specialties

I would agree with this. It's no secret. There are some DS like Midwestern AZ that have incredible, modern clinics. As long as they have certified specialists to educate these students with these advanced "specialty" procedures. BUT. Is it worth over 100K per year? That's the question. My answer is an emphatic no. Just attending one of these schools doesn't guarantee that you will be Dr. "SUPER DUPER GP" in the real world. Not every student who graduates DS will be talented in certain procedures regardless of their training. Just imagine graduating DS. Getting an Associate gig or Corp. " Hey ownership. I'm trained to place implants." Yeah. OK. Ownership/Corp/Etc. will take a chance on a new graduate doing advanced procedures day 1. No worries about potential board complaints, lawsuits, reputation issues with the employer who is employing YOU? The Super GP.

Go to a cheap DS to learn the FUNDAMENTALS. With all the money you will have saved ..... after graduation .... attend some quality CE to enhance your skill set. Learning doesn't stop at DS graduation. Learning goes on FOREVER. Start slow. Be proficient at the basics. Find out what you like to do and what you are good at .... and enhance that skillset. BOOM. Done.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

I had this new grad tell me he is "very good at molar endo." He was so excited to have me see his pulpal access. Unfortunately it was so deficient, no one can instr any canals. I was able to show him my example of a good access...one that your DA can stick paper points on every canal including MB2 on a distally tipped 2nd molar. I struggled with my first 5000 cases (there were plenty of easy ones as well) before reciprocating rotaries and Cliff Ruddle and John West's Glide Path videos on YouTube. IMO, dentistry is a lot like Geoff Colvin's concept of Deliberate Practice. For me, doing molar endos make prepping teeth for crown, filling, etc more simple and predictable. DS only train you ~5% of GP scope. I mentored a hand full of new grads and as they shadow me, they hear me say to pts, "Dentistry is like a puzzle. We try to achieve the most desired results with the least amount of trauma." That seemed to inspire them.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

Learning doesn't stop at DS graduation. Learning goes on FOREVER. Start slow. Be proficient at the basics. Find out what you like to do and what you are good at .... and enhance that skillset. BOOM. Done.

I wish I could do "Boom. Done." I hope to be at your level someday just not at ortho.

 

[TanMan]

I would agree with this. It's no secret. There are some DS like Midwestern AZ that have incredible, modern clinics. As long as they have certified specialists to educate these students with these advanced "specialty" procedures. BUT. Is it worth over 100K per year? That's the question. My answer is an emphatic no. Just attending one of these schools doesn't guarantee that you will be Dr. "SUPER DUPER GP" in the real world. Not every student who graduates DS will be talented in certain procedures regardless of their training. Just imagine graduating DS. Getting an Associate gig or Corp. " Hey ownership. I'm trained to place implants." Yeah. OK. Ownership/Corp/Etc. will take a chance on a new graduate doing advanced procedures day 1. No worries about potential board complaints, lawsuits, reputation issues with the employer who is employing YOU? The Super GP.

Go to a cheap DS to learn the FUNDAMENTALS. With all the money you will have saved ..... after graduation .... attend some quality CE to enhance your skill set. Learning doesn't stop at DS graduation. Learning goes on FOREVER. Start slow. Be proficient at the basics. Find out what you like to do and what you are good at .... and enhance that skillset. BOOM. Done.

Not all DSOs are as risk averse, some will throw you in there and tell you to make it work and make money for them.

What you say is true though. DS for the foundation/knowing what contributes to success and build upon that in your professional career. Doing what you like to do is probably the best way not to burn out and hate your job. Unless of course your favorite thing to do is make money, then sticking to highly profitable low maintenance/follow up procedures would probably be your best bet.

I had this new grad tell me he is "very good at molar endo." He was so excited to have me see his pulpal access. Unfortunately it was so deficient, no one can instr any canals. I was able to show him my example of a good access...one that your DA can stick paper points on every canal including MB2 on a distally tipped 2nd molar. I struggled with my first 5000 cases (there were plenty of easy ones as well) before reciprocating rotaries and Cliff Ruddle and John West's Glide Path videos on YouTube. IMO, dentistry is a lot like Geoff Colvin's concept of Deliberate Practice. For me, doing molar endos make prepping teeth for crown, filling, etc more simple and predictable. DS only train you ~5% of GP scope. I mentored a hand full of new grads and as they shadow me, they hear me say to pts, "Dentistry is like a puzzle. We try to achieve the most desired results with the least amount of trauma." That seemed to inspire them.

LOL, if they were very good at molar endo, they wouldn't have to show you anything except the intermediate films (if they take any) and final result in a timely manner.

 

[PerioDont]

I would agree with this. It's no secret. There are some DS like Midwestern AZ that have incredible, modern clinics. As long as they have certified specialists to educate these students with these advanced "specialty" procedures. BUT. Is it worth over 100K per year? That's the question. My answer is an emphatic no. Just attending one of these schools doesn't guarantee that you will be Dr. "SUPER DUPER GP" in the real world. Not every student who graduates DS will be talented in certain procedures regardless of their training. Just imagine graduating DS. Getting an Associate gig or Corp. " Hey ownership. I'm trained to place implants." Yeah. OK. Ownership/Corp/Etc. will take a chance on a new graduate doing advanced procedures day 1. No worries about potential board complaints, lawsuits, reputation issues with the employer who is employing YOU? The Super GP.

Go to a cheap DS to learn the FUNDAMENTALS. With all the money you will have saved ..... after graduation .... attend some quality CE to enhance your skill set. Learning doesn't stop at DS graduation. Learning goes on FOREVER. Start slow. Be proficient at the basics. Find out what you like to do and what you are good at .... and enhance that skillset. BOOM. Done.

Definitely not worth 100k a year. I think if you are military, NHSC etc though I would choose a school like MWU-AZ where you can have broader experiences.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

LOL, if they were very good at molar endo, they wouldn't have to show you anything except the intermediate films (if they take any) and final result in a timely manner.

He couldn't get past his deficient access. I had to do the full procedure for him.

 

[PerioDont]

I had this new grad tell me he is "very good at molar endo." He was so excited to have me see his pulpal access. Unfortunately it was so deficient, no one can instr any canals. I was able to show him my example of a good access...one that your DA can stick paper points on every canal including MB2 on a distally tipped 2nd molar. I struggled with my first 5000 cases (there were plenty of easy ones as well) before reciprocating rotaries and Cliff Ruddle and John West's Glide Path videos on YouTube. IMO, dentistry is a lot like Geoff Colvin's concept of Deliberate Practice. For me, doing molar endos make prepping teeth for crown, filling, etc more simple and predictable. DS only train you ~5% of GP scope. I mentored a hand full of new grads and as they shadow me, they hear me say to pts, "Dentistry is like a puzzle. We try to achieve the most desired results with the least amount of trauma." That seemed to inspire them.

do you ever refer anything to endo? sounds like you have done as many as a beginner endodontist

 

[Molar Whisperer]

do you ever refer anything to endo? sounds like you have done as many as a beginner endodontist

I've done about similar amt as 9 yr endodontist (I did 9 yr full time endo at about 950-980 cases/yr). There are many reasons I don't desire going thru endo residency. I refer a lot. Crown and bridges with no pulp chamber, bi-or tri-furcated, failing/retreats, MB PARL, extreme dilacerated root, dens invaginatus, anything I can't do in less than 45 min. When I was doing full time referrals, there were many critics of GPs doing endo. I was determined for my RCTs to not fail, but I'm sure I get my share and I try to learn from them. They were mostly fractured teeth and needed to be extracted. I had encountered many MB2 cases done by endodontists that did not resolve and I'm glad my name is not on them. There was a question to a GP if he would rather have an endodontist or a GP do his RCT. If I can clone myself, I can comfortably work on my own teeth if it were not those that I would punt and if I have everything I needed such as ultrasonic, Sys B, Calamus, Microscope, BC sealer, Wave One, Root ZX II, pulp shaping burs, and standard RCT instr kit.

That said, I struggled on #14 yesterday and took me 50 min when it should had been 35. The rotary was shared by others and wasn't working properly and the Calamus refill was a dud and I had to wait for it to cool before I can separate, reload and wait for it to warm. There are no excuses for my RCT tx.

 

[TanMan]

He couldn't get past his deficient access. I had to do the full procedure for him.

That's terrible. Hopefully you having to finish it for him brought great shame and made him a better dentist by feeling that shame everytime he does endo until he can do it well.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

That's terrible. Hopefully you having to finish it for him brought great shame and made him a better dentist by feeling that shame everytime he does endo until he can do it well.

I try not to bring any shame to anyone. I was once like him and fortunate to have a 30 yr endodontist mentor. I was working on a heavily restored amalgam lower molar RCT and have no land marks. I couldn't find the pulp and canals so he came and accessed more buccally and located them for me. Lower molars tip slightly lingual so inexperienced dentists tend to access more lingual. I had no orientation and I had a great lesson that day. Another colleague had unsuccessfully struggled to remove a root tip for 2 hrs according to his DA and she asked me to help so she won't have to stay too late. I took a periapical x-ray, removed some bone, got lucky and it came out instantly (I had other pts waiting). He thought I was trying to show him up but I don't want to stay later than I need and I can't hold his hand to comfort him. Again I was on the other side and if he would learn what I did, then he would be better for it.

 

[TanMan]

I try not to bring any shame to anyone. I was once like him and fortunate to have a 30 yr endodontist mentor. I was working on a heavily restored amalgam lower molar RCT and have no land marks. I couldn't find the pulp and canals so he came and accessed more buccally and located them for me. Lower molars tip slightly lingual so inexperienced dentists tend to access more lingual. I had no orientation and I had a great lesson that day. Another colleague had unsuccessfully struggled to remove a root tip for 2 hrs according to his DA and asked me to help so she won't have to stay too late. I took a periapical x-ray, removed some bone, got lucky and it came out instantly (I had other pts waiting). He thought I was trying to show him up but I don't want to stay later than I need and I can't hold his hand to comfort him. Again I was on the other side and if he would learn what I did, then he would be better for it.

I remember having to bailed out once early in my career. It was an awful feeling and I made sure it never happened again by trying to be iteratively better. That horrendous feeling of shame and failure is a strong motivator to become better. From then on, I always try to see it as no way out except to complete the procedure. We were all noobs once and I see two potential ways to improve. First is to have that feeling of incompetence if you need to be bailed out and as a motivation to always be better. Second is to understand how to become better by knowing what went wrong and how you can improve at every cycle. This is why I don't subscribe too much into the mentor model. Mentors are also flawed and can limit your way of thinking to theirs. Also, you have someone to rely on as a crutch which reduces the stakes in our minds. The downside here is that you think you have someone to bail you out and you may not be giving 100% of yourself to the procedure.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

I remember having to bailed out once early in my career. It was an awful feeling and I made sure it never happened again by trying to be iteratively better. That horrendous feeling of shame and failure is a strong motivator to become better. From then on, I always try to see it as no way out except to complete the procedure. We were all noobs once and I see two potential ways to improve. First is to have that feeling of incompetence if you need to be bailed out and as a motivation to always be better. Second is to understand how to become better by knowing what went wrong and how you can improve at every cycle. This is why I don't subscribe too much into the mentor model. Mentors are also flawed and can limit your way of thinking to theirs. Also, you have someone to rely on as a crutch which reduces the stakes in our minds. The downside here is that you think you have someone to bail you out and you may not be giving 100% of yourself to the procedure.

I'm sorry you don't like the mentor model. I like being a mentor and it makes me better. I'm of a different generation and culture than you and see things differently. I agree that mentors can be very flawed. My DS mentor was 2 yrs ahead and he had bad skills. I tried looking him up and he lost his Nevada license in 2012 ish and is now in Tacoma. You seem to do really well at your practice so your views are legit.

 

[2TH MVR]

I wish I could do "Boom. Done." I hope to be at your level someday just not at ortho.

C'mon. Pretty obvious you are already there with your endo treatments. And as you said ..... look at how many RCTs you have done BEFORE you felt comfortable and proficient with rct. It takes time, trial and error, and experience. Yes. It makes common sense that students exposed to advanced technology, equipment, etc should have an easier time in practice. But I don't see it. Young dentists just out of DS are still in training mode. It takes yrs and yrs to be proficient. I'm covering for a young orthodontist. This ortho has been out in the real world for 1-2 yrs. As I treat his patients .. I've been quietly observing how he does things. Checking his notes. All I can say is he has alot to learn. But that is normal for a young dentist/ortho. It takes yrs of practice (esp in ortho) to gain proficiency.

So piling on implants, aligner tx, wisdom teeth exos, or any advanced dental procedures on a soon to be dentist seems like overkill.
As they say: Learn to walk 1st before attempting to run.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

I have some observations of younger docs. It seems the schools are less hands on than 20 yrs ago. Obviously they are exposed to more advanced technology and they are way smarter than when we went to school (more competition, access to internet info, advanced education materials, etc.). With less hands on at school, the new grads are really crippled with lack of experience. Fortunately many of them are really accepting of mentorship and absorbing a lot of advice.

When I was a new grad in the USAF, my day was always ruined every time I see RCTs on my schedule. My school taught us a really frustrating way to do RCTs so that we will refer them. We learned warm vertical obturation packing increments of Gutta Percha and you get voids at each increment. I had to learn cold lateral obturation on the fly. I asked an endodontist how she could get to the 2nd molars and she uses 21 mm instr and she smooths the pulp and canal orifices with the pulp shaping bur. After using pulp shaping burs, I don't need to hunt for each canal as the instr will slide in. As I started my first DMO, I did a few cases. 6 months later, they wanted to close my GP position, but they wanted to keep me as full time GP endo. They provided everything I needed and I get to learn from a 30 yr endodontist. He was the best mentor I ever had. I thought great, I'll get better with RCTs as I will transition to PP but I ended up staying for 15 yrs. As I did more endo, my crown preps and fillings became easier (I did a few just to keep them fresh). Back in 2003, the technology wasn't as efficient. I was doing molars very slow at 90 min down to 60. I used reciprocating Wave-One for the first time in 2017 and it cut my instr time in half. As mentioned before, I do start to finish molars in 35 min going slow mo. I could go faster but I want to take my time on making the access perfect to minimize any iatrogenic events.

 

[dentistrydmd]

A school with the fewest specialty programs. You will end up doing a lot of work that many other dental schools wouldnt be able to do.

 

[TXftw]

I can understand why the access your associate made was deficient. If you knew the way dental schools teach endo accesses now you’d realize it’s far too conservative. But they drill into your head that if you extend your access within 1 mm of the first maxillary molar oblique ridge it’s clinically unacceptable and the tooth is ruined. Same thing in every direction of the access. A millimeter or 2 overextended you can’t restore the tooth. It’s pretty sad actually

 

[Molar Whisperer]

The deficient access on #19 only partially opened ML and DL canals. MB and DB canals were not uncovered. If one would introduce any rotary, the instr would get impeded and since many inexperienced dentists apply more pressure that will break a pencil lead, snap! I spend about 5 to 10 min opening the canals with light passive rotary instr pressure and smooth with pulp shaping bur such as Brasseler Endo Z. On maxillary molars, the DB canal is mesial to the oblique ridge. Many inexperienced clinicians access mesial to distal destroying the ridge instead of accessing Buccal & Palatal. However, when caries are involved, it doesn't matter about text book access, all caries must be removed. A lot of times I take out the caries and restore them first to prevent leakage and then access textbook (less efficient way). I still get it done in about 35 to 45 min.

 

[PerioDont]

C'mon. Pretty obvious you are already there with your endo treatments. And as you said ..... look at how many RCTs you have done BEFORE you felt comfortable and proficient with rct. It takes time, trial and error, and experience. Yes. It makes common sense that students exposed to advanced technology, equipment, etc should have an easier time in practice. But I don't see it. Young dentists just out of DS are still in training mode. It takes yrs and yrs to be proficient. I'm covering for a young orthodontist. This ortho has been out in the real world for 1-2 yrs. As I treat his patients .. I've been quietly observing how he does things. Checking his notes. All I can say is he has alot to learn. But that is normal for a young dentist/ortho. It takes yrs of practice (esp in ortho) to gain proficiency.

So piling on implants, aligner tx, wisdom teeth exos, or any advanced dental procedures on a soon to be dentist seems like overkill.
As they say: Learn to walk 1st before attempting to run.

In your experience is there much difference in GPR/AEGD trained dentists vs fresh grads?

Do you feel the same about ortho or other specialty residencies, just go to the most affordable one and then start practicing and always be growing as a clinician? Or does it matter more where you go for specialty assuming your end route is private practice and not academic?

 

[2TH MVR]

In your experience is there much difference in GPR/AEGD trained dentists vs fresh grads?

Do you feel the same about ortho or other specialty residencies, just go to the most affordable one and then start practicing and always be growing as a clinician? Or does it matter more where you go for specialty assuming your end route is private practice and not academic?

In my opinion. What really matters for future dental success starting with the most important factor and ending in the least important.

1. Your future DS debt
2. Location - Location - Location
3. Business acumen/marketing skills
4. Being a likeable, personable doctor with leadership skills
5. GPR/AEGD
6. Where you attended DS

 

[TanMan]

In my opinion. What really matters for future dental success starting with the most important factor and ending in the least important.

1. Your future DS debt
2. Location - Location - Location
3. Business acumen/marketing skills
4. Being a likeable, personable doctor with leadership skills
5. GPR/AEGD
6. Where you attended DS

I'll probably rearrange your list a little and say that debt isn't as important for future dental success. Some of those on the list are related to each other.

1. Location (don't practice in a saturated area). It costs more to reach a higher populated area due to increased marketing/media costs and more competition (more docs fighting for less patients). Your variable costs of attracting patients increases in a more saturated area.
2. Business Acumen (common sense) + marketing. You need to know how to get patients, how to process them, reduce your overhead costs, retain patients, recall, etc. We are essentially a service-based assembly line with different queuing theories.
3. Being a likable doctor is important for retention and patient treatment acceptance. I think this should be part of no.2, but this is ranked lower since you need to get patients in the door first. Being likable doesn't matter if you couldn't get patients in the door or couldn't run your office efficiently.
4. DS debt (or all debt load). Essentially, your debt load cannot be too high where you couldn't start your practice, but I don't see this as much of an issue as there's many options such as IBR to reduce debt payments as much as possible during startup phases. Once you grow logarithmically, the debt doesn't seem so bad anymore. It might stifle long term growth, if you look at it from a potential income/savings standpoint, but it shouldn't drag you down too much if you start cheap and quick.
5. GPR/AEGD - This at least gives you some training "in theory" v. dental school. Might help clinically.
6. Where you went to school. No one cares where you went except as part of a fleeting conversation. Those that do care and chose you for it are patients that will probably give you more trouble than anything else. Like those that choose you due to good reviews.

I'd say 1-4 are all related to each other.