What determines your 3rd and 4th year clinical sites?

[Sarahgelatinano]

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[Bring It On]

With AUC you are given a list of multiple sites to do your clinicals...you pick, you contact and you arrange your clinicals....there are clinical sites all over the US....don't know about Ross....also, you have to do it early to get a spot...not guranteed!! good luck

 

[McGillGrad]

With AUC you are given a list of multiple sites to do your clinicals...you pick, you contact and you arrange your clinicals....there are clinical sites all over the US....don't know about Ross....also, you have to do it early to get a spot...not guranteed!! good luck

Please don't answer questions if you are going to give false information.

You are wrong about the way clinicals are set up at AUC.

You do not set up your own 3rd year clinicals. In fact, you are not allowed to call the hospitals for core rotations at all. They are set up (with your input) after you pass Step 1 of the USMLE. The list of affiliated hospitals can be found on the AUC, SGU, Ross and Saba web sites.

 

[McGillGrad]

Basically being away for two years is going to suck, so the really the only way I would want to go to AUC or Ross is if I can be guaranteed a clinical rotation close to my future husband (he might even already be my husband by then).

AUC has some sites in Maryland but none in DC.

Ross has a bunch in Maryland and one in DC.

 

[Sarahgelatinano]

no

 

[McGillGrad]

Maryland, DC or Virginia....basically in the metro area would be great. Even if it's a little bit of a drive (less than 2 hours) he could commute to work.

So, what are the chances that you get the site you want? Is it like a crap shoot or do you have a lot of input?

There are 7 in Maryland affilated with Ross. At least a couple will be ACGME approved. Here is the link.

http://rossu.edu/med/academics/hospitalaffil_051.cfm

You usually let them know your preferences and IF (let me repeat IF) your advisor is good, then you should get your choice as long as it is not a super-popular place with few spots.

Also, you will not want to commute during rotations especially if you have long hours (i.e. surgey). You will burn out quickly. But if he is commuting to a regular job then it could work.

 

[bulletproof]

Maryland, DC or Virginia....basically in the metro area would be great. Even if it's a little bit of a drive (less than 2 hours) he could commute to work.

So, what are the chances that you get the site you want? Is it like a crap shoot or do you have a lot of input?

I know of 2 friends of mine who did rotations in the Maryland/ D.C. area, although admittedly neither covered all their cores in that region. I am unsure as to whether or not this is possible, or will be, by the time your 3rd year rolls around.

McGillgrad is correct in stating that getting a good clinical coordinator/advisor can help matters greatly. Other than that I would advise that if you want to be ahead of the game with respect to clinicals, that you take your Step I exam as soon as possible after the Miami semester in order to be able to beat out the remainder of your classmates in securing rotations. Of course, you must be careful that in so doing, you do not jeopardise your Step score....somewhat of a balancing act.

I was able to set up my entire 3rd year and the early portion of 4th year, Friday to Monday for a year over the phone with one of Ross' liasons in a 15 minute period. All rotations were in the Chicago area. With Ross, if you choose to go to Chicago/NY, then this is possible. Again, I am unsure if you could do this in the Maryland/D.C. area. Perhaps it is possible or will be possible in the future. I think you would need to check and see what core rotations are offered at those 7 sites McGill referred to.

The three main ways you schedule rotations at Ross are:
1. Work with clinical coordinator over phone.
2. Clinical coordinator will give you contact numbers of liasons within a certain area ( Chicago, NY, DC etc.), who are responsible for placing students from various schools. You may call these folk directly and sort out a schedule ( this was the easiest method imho.)
3. You may set up an arrangement between a hospital ( outside of Ross' affiliated hospital list ), and Ross. This will require you to set up the necessary paperwork. Usually students do this for electives, or if they are looking to do an interview/audition rotation at a site they are scoping out for residency.

*keep in mind you should try and stay with ACGME/green book rotations.


Hope that helped. Good luck.

 

[oldpro]

We are able to set up rotations at my school (I have ) and I get to rotate in my home state. But the school has rotations too. (St. James)

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I am seriously considering attending a Caribbean medical school but with all the research I have done, I cannot find out what determines the site of your third and fourth year rotations?

My fiance lives in the Washington DC metro area and I believe AUC and Ross both have affiliated hospitals in the area. Thus, I would really want to get a site at one of these hospitals. How do you choose (or do they place you) into a clinical site? Do they take factors like fiance's and family into account?

Basically being away for two years is going to suck, so the really the only way I would want to go to AUC or Ross is if I can be guaranteed a clinical rotation close to my future husband (he might even already be my husband by then).

Main factors at Ross to get desired clerkships:

Lack of negative comments on academic file > USMLE step 1 > Ross GPA > Rapport with advisor

In your case, the fiance thing might work too.

 

[Nae614]

How hard is it to get rotations in CA for Ross and AUC??
I noticed that there are only 3 sites in CA for Ross.

 

[Bring It On]

Please don't answer questions if you are going to give false information.

You are wrong about the way clinicals are set up at AUC.

You do not set up your own 3rd year clinicals. In fact, you are not allowed to call the hospitals for core rotations at all. They are set up (with your input) after you pass Step 1 of the USMLE. The list of affiliated hospitals can be found on the AUC, SGU, Ross and Saba web sites.

you are correct, it is only the fourth year that you scramble your a** off to find clinical sites....

 

[oldpro]

Please don't answer questions if you are going to give false information.

You are wrong about the way clinicals are set up at AUC.

You do not set up your own 3rd year clinicals. In fact, you are not allowed to call the hospitals for core rotations at all. They are set up (with your input) after you pass Step 1 of the USMLE. The list of affiliated hospitals can be found on the AUC, SGU, Ross and Saba web sites.

you are correct, it is only the fourth year that you scramble your a** off to find clinical sites....

This is true and few schools even let you set any up, it's not an easy thing to do either, I know.....................

 

[ditch doctor]

Please don't answer questions if you are going to give false information.

You are wrong about the way clinicals are set up at AUC.

You do not set up your own 3rd year clinicals. In fact, you are not allowed to call the hospitals for core rotations at all. They are set up (with your input) after you pass Step 1 of the USMLE. The list of affiliated hospitals can be found on the AUC, SGU, Ross and Saba web sites.

Actually, you're giving the false information. You can contact schools for 3rd year, but you are very, very *strongly* advised against doing that. Regardless, I went to AUC, and every semester there are 1 or 2 people that set up their own 3rd year clinicals. Usually they are students that have a connection at particular medical school, and they start the contract portion very early and work on during 1st and 2nd years. It's a pain in the ass and you have to have a pretty decent "in" at the LCME school, but it can be done. It's been done in Louisiana, Ohio, Indiana and other places. Usually, the rate limiting step is not so much AUC, but it is the LCME school that does not want outsiders at their school using up resources on students from other institutions. Hence why most schools have a 2 month per academic year limit on rotations, unless there is a contract.

 

[McGillGrad]

You do realize that according to the majority of state licensing laws, your school must be affiliated with the hospital that you complete your core rotations. If your school is not officially affiliated with the hospital, then there is a good chance that you will not get licensed.

That is the reason why the school STRONGLY advises against it. That is also the reason why only 2-3 *****s do it. It is a lack of forethought that will screw them in the future. They won’t even know they screwed themselves until the end of residency. That is the worst part.

Actually, you're giving the false information. You can contact schools for 3rd year, but you are very, very *strongly* advised against doing that. Regardless, I went to AUC, and every semester there are 1 or 2 people that set up their own 3rd year clinicals. Usually they are students that have a connection at particular medical school, and they start the contract portion very early and work on during 1st and 2nd years. It's a pain in the ass and you have to have a pretty decent "in" at the LCME school, but it can be done. It's been done in Louisiana, Ohio, Indiana and other places. Usually, the rate limiting step is not so much AUC, but it is the LCME school that does not want outsiders at their school using up resources on students from other institutions. Hence why most schools have a 2 month per academic year limit on rotations, unless there is a contract.

 

[ditch doctor]

You do realize that according to the majority of state licensing laws, your school must be affiliated with the hospital that you complete your core rotations. If your school is not officially affiliated with the hospital, then there is a good chance that you will not get licensed.

That is the reason why the school STRONGLY advises against it. That is also the reason why only 2-3 *****s do it. It is a lack of forethought that will screw them in the future. They won’t even know they screwed themselves until the end of residency. That is the worst part.

First of all, you have to have a license in order to be a resident; you're a doctor and you're practicing medicine; you don't go 3-5 years without a license; that's absurd. It's training license for the first few years (1-3 years depending on the state) but you're still bound by the same criteria in order to obtain state licensure.

Anyways, you're right about affiliation, that's why I said they work on the contract portion 1st and 2nd years, to establish the affiliation. I didn't personally do it, but one of the people that did is a good friend and we actually had this conversation when he told me what he was going to do. His father held some position at a medical school, I won't say where for privacy. He contacted state boards where he thought he might want to practice and California (since they are the most stringent) early in the first year to see what he needed to do in order for things to be copacetic. He's a first year resident now and got his temp state license without a hitch.

Another person that did it, I just kinda know him, but I know he finished his first year of residency and moonlights. Which means he took and passed step 3 and has an unrestricted license to practice medicine and a federal DEA number, so he is at least licensed in one state.

As for the others before or after those two, I don't know, and while that would be truly unfortunate if they couldn't get a license, they would know up front when trying get a temp license for residency, not when they finish their residency. That doesn't even make sense. You gotta have a license to be a resident. Period.

Heck, I don't even think AUC would let them rotate there without a contract. Do you think AUC would knowingly graduate someone that couldn't get licensed? Please. That person would be all over one of these boards like wildfire. AUC strongly advises it because either it's a tremendous pain in ass and they are already overworked or they lose money when it happens. Or a combo of both.

Are you making this stuff up?

 

[oldpro]

You do realize that according to the majority of state licensing laws, your school must be affiliated with the hospital that you complete your core rotations. If your school is not officially affiliated with the hospital, then there is a good chance that you will not get licensed.

That is the reason why the school STRONGLY advises against it. That is also the reason why only 2-3 *****s do it. It is a lack of forethought that will screw them in the future. They won’t even know they screwed themselves until the end of residency. That is the worst part.

But all the school has to do is sign a contract with the hospital, then there is an affiliation, it's naive to think that any Caribbean school has way more then that, an agreement, sure at times there are things that are more then just students doing clinicals but the norm is just a contract and thats that.

 

[McGillGrad]

But all the school has to do is sign a contract with the hospital, then there is an affiliation, it's naive to think that any Caribbean school has way more then that, an agreement, sure at times there are things that are more then just students doing clinicals but the norm is just a contract and thats that.

The wording in one example of the regulations specifically requires a written affiliation agreement. You can hope that the medical board will not play semantic games to try to weed you out with "temporary affiliations" vs. permanent affiliations.

Ross students have tried the "temporary affiliations" but it has not caught on probably because it did not yield positive results.

 

[McGillGrad]

First of all, you have to have a license in order to be a resident; you're a doctor and you're practicing medicine; you don't go 3-5 years without a license; that's absurd. It's training license for the first few years (1-3 years depending on the state) but you're still bound by the same criteria in order to obtain state licensure.

As a Canadian, you cannot get licensed until step 3.

 

[oldpro]

The wording in one example of the regulations specifically requires a written affiliation agreement. You can hope that the medical board will not play semantic games to try to weed you out with "temporary affiliations" vs. permanent affiliations.

Ross students have tried the "temporary affiliations" but it has not caught on probably because it did not yield positive results.

Whats the difference? I'm not talking about temporary, you sign a general contract like the one my school signed for me, it did not say MR. XXXXX will do clinicals........ It said students of XYZ school.............. really the Hospitals do not care that much, the schools pay them! It seems maybe some Hospitals have a hang up on these things? I guess I'm not doing sought after rotations LOL..................

 

[McGillGrad]

First of all, you have to have a license in order to be a resident; you're a doctor and you're practicing medicine; you don't go 3-5 years without a license; that's absurd. It's training license for the first few years (1-3 years depending on the state) but you're still bound by the same criteria in order to obtain state licensure.

You know I was talking about a full license.

Anyways, you're right about affiliation, that's why I said they work on the contract portion 1st and 2nd years, to establish the affiliation. I didn't personally do it, but one of the people that did is a good friend and we actually had this conversation when he told me what he was going to do. His father held some position at a medical school, I won't say where for privacy. He contacted state boards where he thought he might want to practice and California (since they are the most stringent) early in the first year to see what he needed to do in order for things to be copacetic. He's a first year resident now and got his temp state license without a hitch.

You are only confirming what I said about affiliations. And people will take a chance with these temporary affiliations, (unless of course, your dad knows people.)

Another person that did it, I just kinda know him, but I know he finished his first year of residency and moonlights. Which means he took and passed step 3 and has an unrestricted license to practice medicine and a federal DEA number, so he is at least licensed in one state.

Yeah, one state. I said many states require official affiliations. I am no expert on medical boards, I just read the rules and repeat them so people don't screw themselves.

As for the others before or after those two, I don't know, and while that would be truly unfortunate if they couldn't get a license, they would know up front when trying get a temp license for residency, not when they finish their residency. That doesn't even make sense. You gotta have a license to be a resident. Period.

Full licensure takes months is nothing like a temp license to do residency.

Heck, I don't even think AUC would let them rotate there without a contract. Do you think AUC would knowingly graduate someone that couldn't get licensed? Please. That person would be all over one of these boards like wildfire. AUC strongly advises it because either it's a tremendous pain in ass and they are already overworked or they lose money when it happens. Or a combo of both.

Yes, AUC and the other schools hold your hand all the way through because they care.

Are you making this stuff up?

I should be asking you the same thing.

 

[McGillGrad]

Whats the difference? I'm not talking about temporary, you sign a general contract like the one my school signed for me, it did not say MR. XXXXX will do clinicals........ It said students of XYZ school.............. really the Hospitals do not care that much, the schools pay them!

Temporary means that only a few students go there, whereas a permanent affiliations reserves places for the school takes students every semester.

 

[ditch doctor]

As a Canadian, you cannot get licensed until step 3.

As a canadian, martian or whatever, you have to *have* a license to be a doctor. That includes residency from day one. First is an educational license which means you have to have staff look over your work. To practice *unrestricted* everyone has to have taken step 3. You do that towards the end of your first year as a resident.

I am no expert on medical boards I just read the rules and repeat them so people don't screw themselves.

Then why are you giving advice?? Have you even applied for any type of medical licensing yet? I have a license and I know a lot of the ropes first hand. Where are these rules are you reading? I would like to see them.

Full licensure takes months is nothing like a temp license to do residency.

Temp license takes months to get as well. I personally met with my state licensing board and getting an unrestricted license is neither more or less difficult. Actually, in state where I am it's a little easier, since they already have my information on file. Nice try, though.

Yes, AUC and the other schools hold your hand all the way through because they care.

I don't they they care at all, they just want to protect their investment. Which entails making sure they do their part of the bargain, or at least make sure they don't look like they screwed anything up. These schools are in it for the money and they don't want anything that will negatively affect their bottom line.

 

[McGillGrad]

As a canadian, martian or whatever, you have to *have* a license to be a doctor. That includes residency from day one. First is an educational license which means you have to have staff look over your work. To practice *unrestricted* everyone has to have taken step 3. You do that towards the end of your first year as a resident.

Once again, I am talking about the full license. you conveniently avoided replying to that.

Then why are you giving advice?? Have you even applied for any type of medical licensing yet? I have a license and I know a lot of the ropes first hand. Where are these rules are you reading? I would like to see them.

You have a temporary license. You do not have your full license. Or do you?

Temp license takes months to get as well. I personally met with my state licensing board and getting an unrestricted license is neither more or less difficult. Actually, in state where I am it's a little easier, since they already have my information on file. Nice try, though.

Unless you have gone through the process you don't know any more than I do, so stop pretending like you know what it is like when we both rely on hearsay.

I don't they they care at all, they just want to protect their investment. Which entails making sure they do their part of the bargain, or at least make sure they don't look like they screwed anything up. These schools are in it for the money and they don't want anything that will negatively affect their bottom line.

You should consider Ross and their mess. They are sinking themselves and do not care about the students because people like you and me will always pay the price to become a 2nd chance MD.

 

[ditch doctor]

Once again, I am talking about the full license. you conveniently avoided replying to that.

You have a temporary license. You do not have your full license. Or do you?

Unless you have gone through the process you don't know any more than I do, so stop pretending like you know what it is like when we both rely on hearsay.

You should consider Ross and their mess. They are sinking themselves and do not care about the students because people like you and me will always pay the price to become a 2nd chance MD.

We're arguing in circles. Bottom line is that when I was at AUC you could set up your own 3rd year curriculum if you really want to. Very few people do it. It's a pain in the ass and you need an in. If it's an LCME school and AUC has a contract with that school you can get licensed. You have to do all of the legwork and the administration doesn't like you to do it. The people that I know that are doing it have gotten their licenses no problem. The requirements for a learning license vs unrestricted are about the same except for the Step 3 requirement. Anyone that is a practicing doctor in the US has to have a license, be it learning or unrestricted.

 

[McGillGrad]

Agreed. Plus you would know more since you are a resident already.

We're arguing in circles. Bottom line is that when I was at AUC you could set up your own 3rd year curriculum if you really want to. Very few people do it. It's a pain in the ass and you need an in. If it's an LCME school and AUC has a contract with that school you can get licensed. You have to do all of the legwork and the administration doesn't like you to do it. The people that I know that are doing it have gotten their licenses no problem. The requirements for a learning license vs unrestricted are about the same except for the Step 3 requirement. Anyone that is a practicing doctor in the US has to have a license, be it learning or unrestricted.

 

[ditch doctor]

Agreed. Plus you would know more since you are a resident already.

Hmmm.... This is like arguing with my wife... I don't know what to say when you agree... At least you can't withold sex for a month to make me pay for it....

 

[McGillGrad]

Hmmm.... This is like arguing with my wife... I don't know what to say when you agree... At least you can't withold sex for a month to make me pay for it....

haha... thank goodness for that