What do I change? 3.9/36/thousands of hours of pretty much everything

[forealmannn]

---

Members do not see this ad.

.

 

[Doctorman45342]

This really sucks man I feel bad for you. Obviously your GPA and MCAT are not the problem. Maybe look into that write up that you had freshman year, that may be impacting your application. Check out those LORS too.

 

[gabyoh23]

As the post above said, your GPA and MCAT are great. Your ECs look pretty great too. I've seen people with worse IAs get acceptances, and yours sounds pretty minor. The only things that I can think of are a weak/negative LOR and/or written materials (secondaries, personal statement) not being strong.

Really go over your PS and secondary essays with a fine-toothed comb. Does this answer why you want to be a doctor and why you, specifically, would be a good doctor? Does it really get in-depth, or is it just a rehash of your many experiences? Do your secondary essays address why you want to attend that specific school and why you would fit in well there? Maybe get someone on SDN to read over your personal statement and ask them to be brutally honest with you.

Also think hard about the people you asked to write you an LOR. Are there any that could have potentially written something negative about you? For example, if you got an LOR from a supervisor, did they ever witness you act in a less than perfect way? I understand that stressful things happen, and you're only human, etc., etc., but think hard about this. They may have included it in the LOR if it really resonated with them.

That's my take on it. For all I know, it could be the IA that's holding you back. Just make sure that you are able to explain the situation in a way that doesn't sound too defensive and that demonstrates that you would never let something like that happen again (as minor as it is).

Good luck!

 

[Corvid]

Frankly, I hate this admissions thing. I applied to 30 schools from all tiers. Ended up getting 2 II, both from top ten schools. No other II. Waitlisted at one currently and rejected from my state school. Where the @#$% did I go wrong this application cycle? What can I improve? Be brutally honest please.

Only red flags I can think of:
LOR?? But no way of knowing. Thought I knew everyone very well...
Institutional Action - got written up freshman year cuz my roommate had one bottle of unopened beer in his backpack during a random search by . No alcohol was consumed that night, I had no alcohol whatsoever, no probation, no suspensions, no law enforcement involvement, nothing.

GPA: 3.9
MCAT: 36 (12/12/12)

Clinical Volunteering: 200+ hours in a hospital over 1.5 years. Pointless so I stopped and switched to paid clinical experience.

Other Volunteering: Multiple non-profits. Leadership positions in all spanning 2 to 6 years. Commitment ranging from 1000 hours to 3000 hours. Two of these non-profits focus on the underserved/poor.

Clinical Experience: ~3000 hours in two positions, one as a scribe and one as an ED tech. Promoted to team leader of over 70 in the scribe position.

Shadowing: 125 hours at time of app, now ~250 hours in multiple specialities (FM, EM, Neuro, Ortho).

Reseach: ~1800 hours with two pubs (one first author), national/regional posters, multiple undergraduate research grants, honors thesis.

Awards: Full ride scholarship for undergrad. Multiple research awards. Some other miscellaneous scholarships.

Other EC's: Marathoner, mountaineering, piano (15 years for fun plus some freelance teaching for two years), SCUBA diver.

Thanks all.

With such a strong application, I am very surprised you didn't bag any acceptances.

Some possibilities:

1. Poor LOR
2. Problematic PS/secondary materials
3. Late application? (When did you apply? General consensus is that the later you apply, the lower your chances.)
4. The IA (I wouldn't be surprised if schools callously your application without bothering to see what the IA was -- though I highly doubt this. The IA was really, really minor. Was it ever brought up in your interviews?)
5. You somehow slipped through the cracks at multiple schools.

Honestly, I'm shocked that you haven't had more success this cycle. Do follow up with the schools that rejected you to get some feedback on your app, specifically if you had any major discrepancies or "red flags." On that note, most schools are tight lipped and don't tell us anything, so make sure you find which schools actually provide personal feedback.

Best of luck to you.

 

[QofQuimica]

I suggest that you contact your state school (and maybe some of the other schools that rejected you) and ask what they suggest you do to improve your app. But I'm guessing like the prior posters that it is the soft aspect of your app (LORs and/or essays) that is the problem, because it certainly isn't your stats or your ECs. The IA sounds relatively minor and not like something that should preclude schools from wanting to interview you.

Take a look at that PS and be brutally honest with yourself. Does it answer "why medicine?" Do you come across as arrogant or entitled? Are there grammatical or spelling mistakes?

For the LORs, did you obtain the right kind and numbers of letters? Did you ask every letter writer whether they could write you a *strong* LOR? That is super important. If they aren't comfortable writing you a strong LOR, you should move on to someone else.

Did you have a good app strategy? Sounds like you applied to enough schools and to a good range of them, but did you get your apps completed early (ideally during the summer)? Did the schools' mission statements match up with your goals?

It's hard to know what to fix unless you can get someone to tell you what the problem is. Hopefully you can get one or more med schools to give you some feedback on this.

 

[forealmannn]

Thanks everyone. I will be scheduling a meeting with my state school as they are pretty good about giving individual feedback. Hopefully nail down the weaknesses. If it is the IA I may go find that roommate and have a beating. Jk. But really.

Do you guys think there is anything I should improve on within the next couple of months activities wise, other than making sure my PS/secondaries are top-notch?

Timing: Submitted for verification by day 3, verified about 3 weeks later. Secondaries all completed by early August. Will shoot for July this year.

LOR: Could be. I thought I knew each of them very well whether in school, work, etc. and asked each to provide a strong letter of rec. Each was very enthusiastic about it, but who knows what they wrote? I did use my alum's committee letter which wrote a cover letter which was pointless. It very well could be that?

PS: Very heart felt about how my father died of cancer when I was young and the hole that left in my life. My family doctor and I connected and I want to provide that unique human connect to others. And so on. Edited by multiple family members and an English prof I'm close with.

Secondaries: Could be. I thought I worked really hard on them and I have great grammar and content. Maybe I just wasn't personalizing it to each school enough.

Thanks for all your help again. This is really useful.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

Have sdn readers go over your ps. Family members are too well intentioned to give you helpful feedback. Good luck!

 

[pietachok]

Thanks everyone. I will be scheduling a meeting with my state school as they are pretty good about giving individual feedback. Hopefully nail down the weaknesses. If it is the IA I may go find that roommate and have a beating. Jk. But really.

Do you guys think there is anything I should improve on within the next couple of months activities wise, other than making sure my PS/secondaries are top-notch?

Timing: Submitted for verification by day 3, verified about 3 weeks later. Secondaries all completed by early August. Will shoot for July this year.

LOR: Could be. I thought I knew each of them very well whether in school, work, etc. and asked each to provide a strong letter of rec. Each was very enthusiastic about it, but who knows what they wrote? I did use my alum's committee letter which wrote a cover letter which was pointless. It very well could be that?

PS: Very heart felt about how my father died of cancer when I was young and the hole that left in my life. My family doctor and I connected and I want to provide that unique human connect to others. And so on. Edited by multiple family members and an English prof I'm close with.

Secondaries: Could be. I thought I worked really hard on them and I have great grammar and content. Maybe I just wasn't personalizing it to each school enough.

Thanks for all your help again. This is really useful.

What is an "alum's" committee letter? Are you a non-trad who went back and used a committee that didn't know you? I would definitely ditch the committee letter if you're out of school. You never know what they wrote, and perhaps they made a mountain out of a molehill with the IA and ended up hurting you. Perhaps they accidentally put something in your letter that belonged in someone else's.

I am an MSIV trying to stay busy to stop thinking about matching next week. I'd be happy to read a PS or secondary responses and give feedback if you want.

 

[forealmannn]

What is an "alum's" committee letter? Are you a non-trad who went back and used a committee that didn't know you? I would definitely ditch the committee letter if you're out of school. You never know what they wrote, and perhaps they made a mountain out of a molehill with the IA and ended up hurting you. Perhaps they accidentally put something in your letter that belonged in someone else's.

I am an MSIV trying to stay busy to stop thinking about matching next week. I'd be happy to read a PS or secondary responses and give feedback if you want.

Yes, sorry. I meant to say that it was my university's committee letter process. I was only a year out from school when I used their process but if I reapply then I will not use them.

I'll PM you. Thanks!

 

[hanz504]

The only think that has not been mentioned is school selection/personality. Both or your interviews were at top 10 schools which you definitely are qualified for given your stats and EC's, but did you apply to any "safety" schools? Also, did you perhaps exude any sort of over confidence at interviews given your standing? Both things to think about, but clearly I don't know you, so hard to say!

 

[forealmannn]

The only think that has not been mentioned is school selection/personality. Both or your interviews were at top 10 schools which you definitely are qualified for given your stats and EC's, but did you apply to any "safety" schools? Also, did you perhaps exude any sort of over confidence at interviews given your standing? Both things to think about, but clearly I don't know you, so hard to say!

Thanks for your advice. I applied to schools from pretty much all over the spectrum ranking/prestige-wise. Obviously subjective, but for every Stanford/Hopkins/Penn I also applied to MCW/Rush/Temple and the like.

Somebody read my PS and gave me some great advice. I will be reworking that, be more specific if possible with my LORs, and reapply to DO and MD if I don't get in off a waitlist.

 

[forealmannn]

Aside from tweaking the PS, LORs, and secondary essays, is my app missing anything? Should I have more clinical volunteering? More shadowing? Leadership? Do I need another "unique" EC?

Thanks again everyone.

 

[snowflakes]

Aside from tweaking the PS, LORs, and secondary essays, is my app missing anything? Should I have more clinical volunteering? More shadowing? Leadership? Do I need another "unique" EC?

Thanks again everyone.

No, your experience this cycle is most bizarre and really unfortunate. How many top 20 schools did you apply to? You said you got 2 II's from top 10 schools? Perhaps you should try applying to more next cycle? It seems you would be competitive at them, and I often see people getting into top schools but rejected from lower ranked ones.

Also, try posting the full list of schools you applied to here, and see what feedback you get.

 

[jlescher]

I don't think you need more ECs. I had a very similar cycle last year, but I was lacking in the clinical EC department and my PS was weak from a "why medicine" perspective. I wrote about translational medicine and my desire to work on clinical trials/research without really drilling down to the bedrock of patient care. I had plenty of doctors green light it, but I don't think it was what ad coms were looking for. Take a serious look at your essays. You may have had a similar issue, although it doesn't sound like it.

Also look at your list of schools. the First time around I applied to highly regarded state schools which seemed to be a death sentence. Focus your OOS apps on private schools, if you didn't. Rush gets a ton of applications so you're at a disadvantage from the beginning (GWU and GT are similar). They are also very volunteer oriented.

If you applied to Wisconsin, get feedback. They provided the best of any school in my experience.

Bottom line, it seems like you really got shafted this year. Stay strong, enjoy another year, and reapply. It's a lot easier the second time around!

 

[forealmannn]

Thanks everyone for your help. I'm working on my PS as we speak to make sure it answers "why medicine".

School list:

Albert Einstein
Baylor
Boston U
Case Western
Columbia
Drexel
Duke
Georgetown
George Wash
Indiana U
Johns Hopkins
Loyola
Mayo
MCW
Mount Sinai
NYU
Northwestern
OHSU
Rush
Stanford
Temple
Tufts
U Miami
UA-Phoenix
U Chicago
U Miami
U Penn
U Pitt
UVA
UW
Vanderbilt
Weill Cornell

 

[Goro]

I'm perplexed by your bad luck as well. Yourpacket is stellar, and the IA doesn't seem to be lethal. I've seen far worse in apps. The LOR might be hurting. Did you apply late? Be sure to contact the Admissions deans at the schools that rejected you and see if you can get some feedback.

OR:
is there anything you're leaving out?????

 

[forealmannn]

I'm perplexed by your bad luck as well. Yourpacket is stellar, and the IA doesn't seem to be lethal. I've seen far worse in apps. The LOR might be hurting. Did you apply late? Be sure to contact the Admissions deans at the schools that rejected you and see if you can get some feedback.

OR:
is there anything you're leaving out?????

AMCAS verified 6/14. All secondaries completed by early August. I'm not leaving anything out that I can think of.

I will contact the admissions deans to see if I can get some feedback. Thank you for your advice.

 

[Goro]

Let us know if you hear anything!

AMCAS verified 6/14. All secondaries completed by early August. I'm not leaving anything out that I can think of.

I will contact the admissions deans to see if I can get some feedback. Thank you for your advice.

 

[deleted271537]

Thanks for your advice. I applied to schools from pretty much all over the spectrum ranking/prestige-wise. Obviously subjective, but for every Stanford/Hopkins/Penn I also applied to MCW/Rush/Temple and the like.

Somebody read my PS and gave me some great advice. I will be reworking that, be more specific if possible with my LORs, and reapply to DO and MD if I don't get in off a waitlist.

I found in my app cycle that most schools with MCATs greater than or equal to 3 points lower than mine didn't interview me. I've heard that they don't bother interviewing applicants who they don't think will matriculate. Is it possible that you applied to too many reach schools and too many "ultra-safeties" but not enough match schools? I personally spent a whole lot of time strategically coming up with my school list. I applied to about 10-12 schools that matched my MCAT or were 1 point below mine. Another 6-8 or so that were 2 or more points below my MCAT. And another 6ish that were above my MCAT. I'm not sure how you came up with your school list or if your school list was even the problem, but just my two cents. I sincerely hope you get off of your waitlist (have you reached out to this school with an update/letter of interest?) or have better luck next time.

 

[forealmannn]

I found in my app cycle that most schools with MCATs greater than or equal to 3 points lower than mine didn't interview me. I've heard that they don't bother interviewing applicants who they don't think will matriculate. Is it possible that you applied to too many reach schools and too many "ultra-safeties" but not enough match schools? I personally spent a whole lot of time strategically coming up with my school list. I applied to about 10-12 schools that matched my MCAT or were 1 point below mine. Another 6-8 or so that were 2 or more points below my MCAT. And another 6ish that were above my MCAT. I'm not sure how you came up with your school list or if your school list was even the problem, but just my two cents. I sincerely hope you get off of your waitlist (have you reached out to this school with an update/letter of interest?) or have better luck next time.

I sent in a letter of intent over the weekend, but they do not start looking at the waitlist until May so it will be some time before I hear back.

Thank you for your advice regarding school selection. Certainly worth looking at.

 

[QofQuimica]

Your list of schools is very east-coast heavy. I suggest if you end up applying again that you apply to more schools in the Midwest, and I don't mean just Chicago. But beyond that, there is something that is turning people off about your app. Your stats and ECs are competitive for all the schools you applied to, so that's not the issue. Until you hear back from your state school about what the problem is, it's going to be hard to advise you on what to change.

 

[forealmannn]

Your list of schools is very east-coast heavy. I suggest if you end up applying again that you apply to more schools in the Midwest, and I don't mean just Chicago. But beyond that, there is something that is turning people off about your app. Your stats and ECs are competitive for all the schools you applied to, so that's not the issue. Until you hear back from your state school about what the problem is, it's going to be hard to advise you on what to change.

Appreciate the advice. Thank you. I'll let you all know what my state school says when I meet with them.

 

[BillrothI]

It is bizarre that you only got 2 IIs. Your application is one of the most impressive I have seen on SDN. It's truly shocking that you don't have at least three or four acceptances.

Would you be willing to post your AMCAS with all of the personal information redacted? Perhaps one of us (or an adcom member) can pick up on something that you missed.

-Bill

 

[solitarius]

Definitely work that wait list school. They'll see you have zero admits, and I think that should favor you. Does that school have WL movement? Where did you go for undergrad?

I'm doubtful that your LORs are bad simply because you have 2 II's from solid schools.

Okay, I think your app is outstanding, but I think there are some factors working against you. First, you applied to some less competitive schools that were going to auto-reject you. Like us, med schools have fragile egos and want a serious LTR rather than a ONS so to speak. Second, you're a T-20 caliber candidate, but the double-edged sword here is that the pool is absurdly fierce. Something like this is possible unfortunately. Third, your state school is U Washington, notoriously fuzzy and holistic in its selection. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they decided to take a 3.6 / 32 who made them feel fuzzy and warm during their ExCom meetings. Fourth, there's a tangible geographic bias in this process. Being a Western states applicant is very challenging. I think you should consider Keck, some UC's, UA Tucson, and Colorado as well if a reapp cycle becomes necessary. Best.

 

[forealmannn]

Definitely work that wait list school. They'll see you have zero admits, and I think that should favor you. Does that school have WL movement? Where did you go for undergrad?

I'm doubtful that your LORs are bad simply because you have 2 II's from solid schools.

Okay, I think your app is outstanding, but I think there are some factors working against you. First, you applied to some less competitive schools that were going to auto-reject you. Like us, med schools have fragile egos and want a serious LTR rather than a ONS so to speak. Second, you're a T-20 caliber candidate, but the double-edged sword here is that the pool is absurdly fierce. Something like this is possible unfortunately. Third, your state school is U Washington, notoriously fuzzy and holistic in its selection. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they decided to take a 3.6 / 32 who made them feel fuzzy and warm during their ExCom meetings. Fourth, there's a tangible geographic bias in this process. Being a Western states applicant is very challenging. I think you should consider Keck, some UC's, UA Tucson, and Colorado as well if a reapp cycle becomes necessary. Best.

Went to a large public university. The school seems to have WL movement only on some years, but they changed their admissions process significantly this year and accepted less students so they could take more off their waitlist.

I will consider my school selection. Thanks for those suggestions!

 

[caffeinemia]

Is there any way to discuss an expunging of the alcohol citation from your record? Perusing through this, I see an ethical/professional/citizenship red-flag as something that would get my attention the most. No matter how much you downplay it, as a previous reader of applications, I am always skeptical and when supply is limited, those types get struck first.

 

[forealmannn]

Is there any way to discuss an expunging of the alcohol citation from your record? Perusing through this, I see an ethical/professional/citizenship red-flag as something that would get my attention the most. No matter how much you downplay it, as a previous reader of applications, I am always skeptical and when supply is limited, those types get struck first.

I fought this thing for years with my school but they won't drop it even though it's only on their school record. I understand what you are saying but that is ridiculous. I did nothing wrong. I hope that ***** RA suffers someday for ruining my career.

 

[krogers21]

Truth be told, that RA didn't have the power to make you get that mark on your school record - it was the RA's supervisors. However,...

I'm shocked you haven't gotten IIs. Indiana allows IS students with a 28 MCAT a guaranteed II. While you seem to be OOS, I am still in awe that you didn't get an interview. Have you heard back from all the schools that you didn't get IIs from? Maybe you could send LOIs to them to let them know your desire if they haven't rejected yet.

Good luck! You seem like you'd be a great candidate.

 

[hughnguyen22]

Your school list has some mid-tier schools, but these are very competitive mid tier. They might be even more competitive than the top 10 since they get a lot of apps. On top of that, you have great stats and ECs, but you might not present them well in your personal statement and written materials. Being rejected from your state school indicates bad interviewing skills. Even a lukewarm interview yields a wait-list.

 

[forealmannn]

Your school list has some mid-tier schools, but these are very competitive mid tier. They might be even more competitive than the top 10 since they get a lot of apps. On top of that, you have great stats and ECs, but you might not present them well in your personal statement and written materials. Being rejected from your state school indicates bad interviewing skills. Even a lukewarm interview yields a wait-list.

Thanks for your advice. Not sure if I agree about the interviewing thing. Maybe my interview did sink me there, but my state school is U Washington which is a top ten med school. Out of the 15 people I knew applying, all got rejected post interview (no waitlist) except for one. I find it hard to believe that us 14 just all happened to be bad at interviewing.

Aside from all that, my PS was a problem. Didn't quite reflect what I wanted it to and a couple of SDN readers have pointed that out. I'm in the process of a complete rewrite right now. Thanks again!

 

[hughnguyen22]

Maybe that is how UW rolls. Good luck on your wait-list. Faint hope is better than no hope.

 

[forealmannn]

Maybe that is how UW rolls. Good luck on your wait-list. Faint hope is better than no hope.

Thanks!

 

[cabinbuilder]

There is a reality it sometimes is simply just the applicant pool, the year, the dynamics, etc. But I have advised several re-applicants who had really outstanding stats and really it came down to presentation, both in written PS/EC and Interview. It seems that there is a fine line between in confidence/achievement and arrogance. Have some people who reread your PS and see if there is perhaps a subtle drift, maybe it just doesnt sell, etc. It is a really coherent, concise, and compelling narrative showing your motivation, commitment and achievement. Presentation here is the key.

You are absolutely correct. The PS falls flat on so many levels, doesn't sell. Am assisting.