What do I need to know about coronavirus?

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Vitamin D is helpful!


I have been interested in a Vitamin D connection as well. That being said, Vitamin D levels correlating with any outcome for any disease seems like it is highly susceptible to be confounded by lurking additional variables. Off the top of my head, it would seem that you see higher vitamin D levels in people who spend more time outside and get sunlight. People who spend more time outside are probably younger, healthier, and more active at baseline. This same patient population probably has better outcomes nearly regardless of disease process, but a respiratory virus in particular.

That being said, the mechanistic explanation for how vitamin D could be helpful as an immunomodulator and down-regulator of the renin-angiotensin pathway is very intriguing.

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The rhetoric from the mod is quite alarming in and of itself. "Anti-science" and "consensus" and citing "facts" that are unproven as a means to shut down debate. It's a private site and I get that they have every right to shut down any conversation they deem fit to shut down for whatever reason, but doing so is far more dangerous for our society than any further spread of disease that may happen as a result of such discussions. Administration clearly doesn't see for forest from the trees. Questioning the efficacy of masking = cancelled. What's next? Is discussing the possibility of herd immunity through exposure grounds for cancellation?

Was anybody masking on the Princess cruise ship? Can I even ask that, or is that grounds for dismissal?

I think you are taking that a bit too far...

...nevertheless perhaps we should stop taking about masks so we can actually get together and talk about something. At this rate any thread on SDN that mentions masks is at risk for becoming locked, including this particular one that is the least porn-circle-jerky of all the COVID-19 ones. I would like to keep it that way. The other thread "How long should lockdowns last" is, well, moot because we are not locked down anymore. And that one is full of whitish-spray, filth, grime, and other nasty liquids.
 
I may be old fashioned but I think ANY scientific theory should be able to stand up to even a bit of criticism and scrutiny. There's no such thing as "settled science". If there was, we'd really be stuck in the dark ages in regards to human knowledge.

Janders, I don't think anyone here doubts that surgical masks block droplets from coughs and sneezes. There's a reason surgeons wear them in the OR, and I think they are quite effective in that regard.

Most of my concerns (and others) come from the supposed "Asymptomatic spread", of which there is very little actual evidence. When someone breathes normally, that air still goes somewhere......usually around the mask . So instead of shooting straight out front, the mask makes the virus-laden asymptomatic air squirt around the sides, but it still gets in the atmosphere. The question we've all had, is does this make a difference? I don't know. Ideally we should all walk around with N95s all the time if we really wanted to do something effective.

As a libertarian I generally like their to be broad evidence that something is effective before being subject to rules and regulations. The lockdowns were a total farce, with private property being seized for measures which have been proven to be either ineffective at preventing deaths, or downright harmful as far as the unintended consequences.
 
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I may be old fashioned but I think ANY scientific theory should be able to stand up to even a bit of criticism and scrutiny. There's no such thing as "settled science". If there was, we'd really be stuck in the dark ages in regards to human knowledge.
My favorite kind of 'settled science' is the kind that has "no randomized control trial data to support" and about which all discussion is banned.

"Science!"
 
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I mean are you guys surprised. People who chose to moderate forums/subreddits/any type of power are the same kids that got beat up in high school. Instead of becoming cops they become internet warriors behind a keyboard with pseudopower. I personally could not care any less about the mask thing. If it's required then wear it. If you're symptomatic, you shouldn't be out anyway.
 
I mean are you guys surprised. People who chose to moderate forums/subreddits/any type of power are the same kids that got beat up in high school. Instead of becoming cops they become internet warriors behind a keyboard with pseudopower. I personally could not care any less about the mask thing. If it's required then wear it. If you're symptomatic, you shouldn't be out anyway.

I don't disagree with you in theory. I just have no trust of any politicians because I think they make abritrary, capricious, and often stupid decisions. Any mandate, rule, tax, or regulation imposed by a politician should be fully scrutinized and ridiculed/ignored if there's no basis. We always need to fight back against the petty tyrants. Michigan's governor, for example has just imposed "Implicit Bias" training for all healthcare workers.
 
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I think you are taking that a bit too far...

...nevertheless perhaps we should stop taking about masks so we can actually get together and talk about something. At this rate any thread on SDN that mentions masks is at risk for becoming locked, including this particular one that is the least porn-circle-jerky of all the COVID-19 ones. I would like to keep it that way. The other thread "How long should lockdowns last" is, well, moot because we are not locked down anymore. And that one is full of whitish-spray, filth, grime, and other nasty liquids.

Orwell and Solzhenitsyn would disagree.
 
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So, what you’re saying is, that despite the fact that it’s a !novel! virus, it behaves like pretty much every other virus? Next you’ll be telling me that antimalarials aren’t actually effective.

In other positive news, finally some common sense from the govt:

 
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This is good stuff like I wrote and still there has to be something to explain how quickly this moves through the population. Other betacoronaviruses don't transmit this quickly (I don't think). So either those other betacoronaviruses are not as "infectious" as SARS-COV-2, or they are and we have some sort of immunity to them but not SARS-COV-2.

Coronavirus, along with adenovirus, rhinovirus, norovirus, influenza, etc. has been circulating among humans for generations, perhaps centuries. But this particular coronavirus is really doing a number on the world population.
 
I'm sure someone will have some emotions and irrational fear to override the science ("Cuz Science!"), but here you go:

German Study Finds No Evidence Coronavirus Spreads In Schools

“'It is rather the opposite,' Prof Berner told a press conference. 'Children act more as a brake on infection.' These results of the investigation provide evidence that virus transmission in families is not as dynamic as previously thought,” Berner said in a comment within the study."


1- Summary article, CNBC. 2- Yahoo. 3- Study itself

By the way I think this is great....except for two things.

1. The study itself is in German and I can't read German.

2. Germany never really had a big spike in cases like other places...so it's possible that the German cohort will not apply to the USA cohort where the virus is moving around with ease.
 
I'm sure someone will have some emotions and irrational fear to override the science ("Cuz Science!"), but here you go:

German Study Finds No Evidence Coronavirus Spreads In Schools

“'It is rather the opposite,' Prof Berner told a press conference. 'Children act more as a brake on infection.' These results of the investigation provide evidence that virus transmission in families is not as dynamic as previously thought,” Berner said in a comment within the study."


1- Summary article, CNBC. 2- Yahoo. 3- Study itself

What ever happened to the 200 or so kids in NYC that came down with Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome from COVID-19? Are they all dead? Did other countries also have similar pediatric cases?
 
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What ever happened to the 200 or so kids in NYC that came down with Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome from COVID-19? Are they all dead? Did other countries also have similar pediatric cases?

Mostsurvived. Also magically the number of normal monthly Kawasaki cases was down from average but the mysterious MISC was up.
 
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Wear a mask...OR GO TO JAIL

Glad to see we haven't learned anything in 100 years!
 

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What ever happened to the 200 or so kids in NYC that came down with Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome from COVID-19? Are they all dead? Did other countries also have similar pediatric cases?
I'm not sure. My understanding is MIS-C is much more treatable than COVID-19 itself, but I could be wrong.
 
Amazing how that works. Also amazing how diagnosed flu cases are way down too....

It's not flu season.

were the number of flu cases in the winter of 2019-2020 statistically lower than normal?

I do think we will see less flu in winter 2020-2021. might be lowest in recent memory.
 
It's not flu season.

were the number of flu cases in the winter of 2019-2020 statistically lower than normal?

I do think we will see less flu in winter 2020-2021. might be lowest in recent memory.

We arent even allowed to test for flu anymore due to "shortage of viral medium". We do sometimes have a spike in flu symptoms in Summer as everyone is indoors. I havent sent a flu test since March.
 
My hospital's employee health is offering free COVID swabs to all ED employees. I have no symptoms. Should I get tested?
Get checked for the presence of virus? No. 14 days off unpaid is why I won’t get tested unless symptomatic. What if you get a false positive, or are shedding dead viral fragments from a recent infection but no longer contagious? Plus, 14 days of quarantine has to be the most boring thing in the world.

It’s better to get your IgG checked. That way if positive & no symptoms, it was a past infection and no quarantine needed. “Now that I think of it, I did sneeze once a month ago. But I thought it was allergies.”

Plus, if you’re getting checked because, “I have no symptoms but might have been exposed,” then how often do you get checked? Once a week, once a day? Because when it comes back negative, two days later you’re still at, “No symptoms but maybe exposed. Should I get checked?”
 
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Are we allowed to discuss this? If not I can delete?

Nope. You're not allowed to discuss the M-word. It's the worst of the worst of the worst. As bad as all the other blank-words.
 
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You're not allowed to discuss the M-word. It's the worst of the worst of the worst. As bad as all the other blank-words.

Monument? Mexican? Mint Julips? Ahh, Montenegro! Got it
 
The real question (philosophical not directed to you specifically) is who would and who would not get tested if the 14 days were paid.

I wouldn't get it for minor symptoms. The cost of us being off work is so great. Two weeks is about $20K of lost income that's not replaceable.
I would get a test if I felt sick enough to stay home, at which case I'd be home for 2 weeks anyway.

I have a friend who works in the fire department here and he just came down positive (only symptom is loss of taste). He now gets up to 4 weeks paid leave! If I could get 4 weeks paid leave, I'd get tested every day in the hopes that one of the tests was positive.
 
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Hah its so interesting reading through this thread as an ER/ICU doc who survived this covid pandemic
 
The real question (philosophical not directed to you specifically) is who would and who would not get tested if the 14 days were paid.

with the stimulus laws I could pull out 100k from my retirement and my wife could do the same without penalty. I think we’d do that. most of my coin is tied up there and I’m not super liquid. Can always pay it back if I want to later.
 
Are we allowed to discuss this? If not I can delete?


Do not post this **** because this thread will be shut down.
 
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Lancet 6/27/20

Infection risk reduction:

-Distancing >1m: From 12.8% to 2.6%
-Masks: From 17.4% to 3.1%
-Eye protection: From 16.0% to 5.5%

Screen Shot 2020-07-18 at 12.29.06 PM.png
 
I've always heard that the goggles do nothing...

If we've gotten to the point where we believe that Coronavirus literally wafts through the air, enters your eye membranes and causes infection, then we are doomed. Yes, I do understand there's a potential risk with droplet-generating procedures like intubation, but that's not what I'm talking about.
 
If we've gotten to the point where we believe that Coronavirus literally wafts through the air, enters your eye membranes and causes infection, then we are doomed. Yes, I do understand there's a potential risk with droplet-generating procedures like intubation, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Not much of a simpsons fan I see.

'The googles, they do nothing! MY EYES!'

- Rainier Wolfcastle.
 
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If we've gotten to the point where we believe that Coronavirus literally wafts through the air, enters your eye membranes and causes infection, then we are doomed. Yes, I do understand there's a potential risk with droplet-generating procedures like intubation, but that's not what I'm talking about.

It will crawl up your peehole if you are not careful.

You better wear a condom all the time.
 
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Wa Wa We Wah! What do we have here?

BloombergNordic Study Suggests Open Schools Don’t Spread Virus Much


Nordic Study Suggests Open Schools Don’t Spread Virus Much



Scientists in a Nordic study have found that keeping primary schools open during the coronavirus pandemic may not have had much bearing on contagion rates.


There was no measurable difference in the number of coronavirus cases among children in Sweden, where schools were left open, compared with neighboring Finland, where schools were shut, according to the findings.

The study compares two countries that share similar societal models, including access to universal health care, but that adopted very different strategies to tackle Covid-19. Sweden avoided a proper lockdown, while Finland imposed tougher social distancing.

Indicative data show there is no difference in the overall incidence of the laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 cases in children aged 1 to 19 years in the two countries; contact tracings in primary schools in Finland found hardly any evidence of children infecting others, according to the working paper by the Public Health Agency of Sweden and the Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare. What’s more, there’s no increased risk for teachers, according to a Swedish comparison of cases among daycare and primary school staff, compared with risk levels in other professions.

a narrow city street: Swedish flags fly from a tourist souvenir shop in Gamla Stan in Stockholm, Sweden, on Thursday, March 26, 2020. Sweden is starting to look like a global outlier in its response to the coronavirus.
© Bloomberg Swedish flags fly from a tourist souvenir shop in Gamla Stan in Stockholm, Sweden, on Thursday, March 26, 2020. Sweden is starting to look like a global outlier in its response to the coronavirus.
It’s not the first time researchers have raised questions about the merits of shutting schools during the pandemic. A French study last month found that school children don’t appear to transmit Covid-19 to peers or teachers. That investigation established that kids seemed to show fewer symptoms than adults, and to be less contagious. But the authors also said more research was needed.

Hanna Nohynek, chief physician at the infectious diseases unit of Finland’s health authority and a co-author of the Nordic research, said that “children get sick with Covid-19 much more rarely and less severely.” She also cautioned that more data is needed, and that “children’s role in the transmission needs further study.”

But for now, “it would appear that their role in transmitting Covid-19 isn’t at all as big as with other respiratory infections, such as influenza,” Nohynek said. After two months of remote learning, Finnish children returned to school in May, and national infection rates have continued to decline since then.

Israel
But some countries have had dangerous outcomes when reopening schools, albeit for older children. In Israel, bringing students back to the classroom accelerated the spread of Covid-19 among middle and high-school students.

Israel’s example underlines how countries’ varying circumstances on the ground can make all the difference, Nohynek of Finland said.

“The situation in Israel is very different, with a worse outbreak in society, but also bigger classes in schools and smaller rooms,” as well as larger families, she said.

Sweden’s strategy for fighting Covid-19 is among the most controversial in the world. Its decision to leave much of society open, including primary schools, has coincided with a considerably higher death rate than in the rest of the Nordic region. About 95% of those who have died are over 60.

Swedish health authorities say they’ve managed to stabilize the spread of the virus, thanks to citizens’ voluntarily adhering to social distancing guidelines. In a recent interview, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said recently he remains “convinced” that his country has chosen the right strategy.
 
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