What do I need to know about coronavirus?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
"HAHA I hope this guy DIES!!! LOL!!!".


-You.

A physician.

Hell, why even bother giving Narcan to the next home boy OD drop off? After all they're injecting them it themselves.

This is how you idiots sound when people like you make fun of people who got sick when it's someone you don't like.

I thought the chance of him dying was low?

And is a physician laughing at an individual downplaying the risks of contracting COVID actually worse than the physicians on here who suggest that the elderly dying from this are insignificant because they were going to die in the next 5 years anyways?

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I thought the chance of him dying was low?

And is a physician laughing at an individual downplaying the risks of contracting COVID actually worse than the physicians on here who suggest that the elderly dying from this are insignificant because they were going to die in the next 5 years anyways?


Can you quote the posts that have said this? Or is this just your interpretation?
 
"HAHA I hope this guy DIES!!! LOL!!!".


-You.

A physician.

Hell, why even bother giving Narcan to the next home boy OD drop off? After all they're injecting them it themselves.

This is how you idiots sound when people like you make fun of people who got sick when it's someone you don't like.

If an anti-science policymaker is harmed by refusing to follow medical advice, I'm not sure how that's a net negative for the profession. If anything, it reinforces that patients should only ignore medical advice at their own risk.

Prescribing Narcan is a harm reduction measure, like recommending masks or social distancing. I'm sure you have a point, but it's lost on me. Are you anti-science or something?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
"HAHA I hope this guy DIES!!! LOL!!!".


-You.

A physician.

Hell, why even bother giving Narcan to the next home boy OD drop off? After all they're injecting them it themselves.

This is how you idiots sound when people like you make fun of people who got sick when it's someone you don't like.
Keep in mind you're spending time debating someone who claims to be an MD, and has taken the identity of Che Guevara who shot to death many people he suspected as being disloyal or "spies," reveled in killing by firing squad, is a known communist and avowed enemy of America, helped destroy Cuba's economy and lead it into an decades long dictatorship that continues to this day.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Can you quote the posts that have said this? Or is this just your interpretation?

Great and fair question. I recall posts to this effect but honestly have little to no emotional investment in finding them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Great and fair question. I recall posts to this effect but honestly have little to no emotional investment in finding them.

It’s been written numerous times.




Man there is a little lull in posts and it’s back to juicy poo throwing back and forth.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Interesting look at assessing coronavirus risk, moving forward

"Learning to Live With Coronavirus Risk"-WSJ

By Greg Ip

July 29, 2020 9:00 am ET

The pandemic’s resurgence, including in places where it had been contained, makes it clear that for the foreseeable future the risk of Covid-19 can’t be eliminated, only managed.

That means Americans need to decide how much risk to accept. It isn’t a simple matter, as the debate over reopening schools this fall demonstrates.
Reopening inevitably carries some risk of an outbreak that threatens vulnerable people. Many parents, teachers and local leaders have concluded that risk is unacceptable.

Yet, a hard-nosed look at the evidence suggests that keeping schools closed won’t further the cause of safety much. Covid-19 is less dangerous to children than seasonal flu, and teachers are no more likely to be infected than other workers. Meanwhile, keeping schools closed incurs all sorts of other costs, to children’s education and welfare, as well as working parents’ livelihoods.

Kids’ Coronavirus Risk Remains Uncertain as Schools Weigh Reopening

Schools are racing to make plans for the academic year even as Covid-19 cases surge in the U.S. WSJ’s Daniela Hernandez explores how kids are affected by the virus and if it’s possible to reopen schools safely.

Such tensions permeate the economy. We might have eliminated the threat of infection from many everyday activities by shopping, working and consulting the doctor from home. But in numerous other activities such as flying and dining out, that is impossible. So either risk appetites will have to adjust, or swaths of the economy will remain shut down.

Knowing how much risk to tolerate is complicated by the uncertainty of what the risks of Covid-19 are. The probability of dying if you are infected is 0.5% to 1% (five to 40 times deadlier than flu), but the probability of becoming infected in the first place is a mystery because it depends on the degree of spread in the community, how many in the community are susceptible and what measures are in place to slow the spread.

Moreover, each person’s behavior affects everyone else, so an individual’s risk appetite will reflect not just his own fear of the virus, but also his fear (or lack thereof) of passing it to someone else.

Risk appetites vary considerably among individuals. Many young adults are eager to crowd into bars and parties despite knowing they are hot spots for the virus. Others err in the opposite direction. An April survey by Quinnipiac University found 75% of respondents were very or somewhat concerned they or a family member would be hospitalized with Covid-19. Yet to date, the hospitalization rate for the broader population is just 0.1%, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Among lab-confirmed cases, just 14% end up in hospital and 2% in intensive care, according to the CDC.

People tend to be more fearful of risks that are novel, or inspire dread. Thus, they fear nuclear power more than coal, gas or oil which kill far more people. They are also warier of risks they can’t control, so they hold airlines to higher standards of safety than their own driving.
Some of these behavioral quirks might be at work with Covid-19. According to the CDC, three times as many children died of flu between February and July as died of Covid-19. But flu is familiar to parents and Covid-19 isn’t and thus inspires more caution.

Surveys find consumers particularly wary of boarding a plane. But Arnold Barnett, who studies aviation-safety statistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, calculates that two hours spent on a full flight are about as likely to result in infection as two waking hours not spent on a plane. “While flying is more hazardous now, so is practically everything else,” Mr. Barnett said.

Mr. Barnett’s example demonstrates that even when overall risk is high or uncertain, we can use relative risks between occupations and activities to guide us. For example, supermarkets have stayed open throughout the pandemic, yet the death rate from Covid-19 among unionized grocery workers is slightly lower than in the overall working-age population; among food-processing and meatpacking plant workers, it is much higher.
A Swedish study found that taxi and bus drivers were infected at four times the average of all occupations, while teachers, who continued to teach in classrooms in Sweden, contracted the disease at around the average. (The Dutch government says workers in education and child care are infected at much lower rates than other workers.)

This suggests opening stores and schools, with mitigation measures in place such as masks, shouldn’t raise the overall level of risk in the economy, while countering other risks such as unemployment, diminished learning and undetected child abuse.
Nonetheless, this also means that store workers and teachers are assuming some personal risk for the sake of all society—and society should recognize that.

“Police, fire, construction, mining and military personnel work in hazardous occupations but they are paid premium compensation for doing so,” noted John Graham, a professor at Indiana University who vetted regulatory costs and benefits in President George W. Bush’s White House.

“Teachers never signed up to work in such conditions. Our nation should pay a Covid premium for teachers willing to work in the face of infection risks. But teachers should not be forced to work.”
 
Last edited:
I'm putting Che on ignore. Not sure why the mods think using the name of a mass murderer is okay. Ill be back with my Hitler account......
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'm putting Che on ignore. Not sure why the mods think using the name of a mass murderer is okay. Ill be back with my Hitler account......
His poorly concealed giddiness in gloating over Herman Cain's death in an attempt win the internet fits right in with the decision to take the screen name of a sociopath "cuz he took some medical classes" prior to his killing sprees.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Could you be denied life saving Remdesivir because you make too much money and to "redress social injustices"? I don't know, but according to the NY Post, possibly yes, in some states.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
He’s dead now... Cain...was just announced.
I saw that. Hermain Cain was quite an accomplished guy: He grew up poor, but well before the age of 40 was managing 400 restaurants before. He eventually became the CEO of a nationwide restaurant chain (Godfather's Pizza), CEO of National Restaurant Association, Chairman of a Federal Reserve Bank branch, Navy Ballistics analyst, computer systems analyst, syndicated columnist, TV/radio personality, political advisor and Presidential candidate. You name it. The list goes on. Unfortunately, he checked every box for high risk for COVID-19. But he lived a very full life.

R.I.P. Herman Cain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You are so lazy... ;)


NYP is a little over the top in calling them "social justice engineers", looks like a bunch of physicians sat down and came up with this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You are so lazy... ;)


NYP is a little over the top in calling them "social justice engineers", looks like a bunch of physicians sat down and came up with this.
Not really, no. That article does say that if you are disadvantaged you should have a weighted score in determining who receives the medication.

"One strategy to accomplish this is to use a metric like the Area Deprivation Index1 to identify patients from disadvantaged communities, then give them somewhat increased chances to receive treatment in a weighted lottery (see appendix A)."
 
You are so lazy... ;)


NYP is a little over the top in calling them "social justice engineers", looks like a bunch of physicians sat down and came up with this.
They clearly state that if you're only a "general community member" you'll have a 25% (25 in 100) chance of getting the drug, but if you're poor ("From an area with Area Deprivation Index score of 8,9, or 10") then your chances are bumped up to 31% (31 in 100). The difference being 6%. So if 100 people face this conundrum of needing Remdesivir during a shortage, 6 out of 100 of the "general community members" are deprived of the medication, strictly because they live in a higher income zip code.

That sounds a hell of a lot like death panel to me, coming from left wing, Democrats trying to settle "social justice" grudges.




Source



Poor.GIF
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
If we agree that wealth vs poverty should not play a role in access to healthcare then @GeneralVeers and @VA Hopeful Dr , in order to be consistent, must also oppose things like concierge practices, no?

If it's immoral to give any sort of preference to the poor it's also immoral to give preference to the wealthy.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: 1 user
If we agree that wealth vs poverty should not play a role in access to healthcare then @GeneralVeers and @VA Hopeful Dr , in order to be consistent, must also oppose things like concierge practices, no?

If it's immoral to give any sort of preference to the poor it's also immoral to give preference to the wealthy.
You're smarter than this.

In areas with a very limited supply, the wealthy don't get preference. Its why outside of making sure you can afford anti-rejection medications (either with insurance or without depending on circumstances), transplant allocation doesn't take wealth into account.

In 2004 when there was a huge shortage of flu vaccine, being rich didn't get you a flu shot over someone on Medicaid. It was done based on need: health care workers, cancer patients, lung disease patients, you get the idea. Heck, you might have been a doctor then (I have no idea how long you've been in practice) and so saw that first hand.

There are finite number of beds in any given ED. If the ED in my town is full, offering to give the hospital 50k won't magically get me a bed over the guy who can't get his oxygen level over 80 on room air. This should use the same basic triage idea that we've always used when resources are an issue - severity, likelihood to improve, resources likely to be needing to fix the patient.

The number of PCPs doing primary care is still quite small, if you put all of them back into regular practice it wouldn't make a noticeable difference in access to care.

For the record, I don't really like concierge practices but it has nothing to do with access to care.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 2 users
You're smarter than this.

In areas with a very limited supply, the wealthy don't get preference. Its why outside of making sure you can afford anti-rejection medications (either with insurance or without depending on circumstances), transplant allocation doesn't take wealth into account.

In 2004 when there was a huge shortage of flu vaccine, being rich didn't get you a flu shot over someone on Medicaid. It was done based on need: health care workers, cancer patients, lung disease patients, you get the idea. Heck, you might have been a doctor then (I have no idea how long you've been in practice) and so saw that first hand.

There are finite number of beds in any given ED. If the ED in my town is full, offering to give the hospital 50k won't magically get me a bed over the guy who can't get his oxygen level over 80 on room air. This should use the same basic triage idea that we've always used when resources are an issue - severity, likelihood to improve, resources likely to be needing to fix the patient.

The number of PCPs doing primary care is still quite small, if you put all of them back into regular practice it wouldn't make a noticeable difference in access to care.

For the record, I don't really like concierge practices but it has nothing to do with access to care.

I can't help but wonder if we've misunderstood each other, possibly because I was not sufficiently clear. I wasn't trying to upset you. It sounds like we agree - more money shouldn't buy you better health care. I was simply trying to point out that, if it's to be consistent & fair, the argument needs to cut both ways. If one should not get better access to care simply by virtue of being poor, others should not get better access to care simply by virtue of being wealthy.
 
Last edited:
Not really, no. That article does say that if you are disadvantaged you should have a weighted score in determining who receives the medication.

"One strategy to accomplish this is to use a metric like the Area Deprivation Index1 to identify patients from disadvantaged communities, then give them somewhat increased chances to receive treatment in a weighted lottery (see appendix A)."

Or what about this: we treat everyone equally without regard to race, religion or background?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I can't help but wonder if we've misunderstood each other, possibly because I was not sufficiently clear. I wasn't trying to upset you. It sounds like we agree - more money shouldn't buy you better health care. I was simply trying to point out that, if it's to be consistent & fair, the argument needs to cut both ways. If one should not get better access to care simply by virtue of being poor, others should not get better access to care simply by virtue of being wealthy.
The point was clear from your first post. Or I guess I should say this post is what I thought your first one was saying.

For immediate life saving care, wealth absolutely shouldn't factor into it. Its why most of your ICU doctors (and I've heard y'all say here that in the ED its similar) have no idea what someone's insurance/financial status is. You wouldn't refuse to send someone to the cath lab emergently just because they're homeless, for example. Nor does having lots of money get you to the emergent cath lab any faster.

Similarly with something that's very finite. There's no need, for instance, to ration aspirin. But if you have something where demand is much higher than supply and is life saving, it should be rationed based on the usual criteria - how can we get the most benefit for the most people. Health status, age, severity, you probably know this stuff better than I do as I imagine the ED literature is has guidelines for things like mass casualty events.

Primary care is neither acutely life saving nor especially finite.
 
Will you include wealth in that, or do you want to exclude it?

I see what you did there....you want me to endorse single payer. My point was more that doctors shouldn't be giving treatments based on race or any "scoring system". My understanding is that even if you have no insurance now, and get admitted to the ICU, doctors "do everything" regardless of the out of pocket expenses incurred.

The Nazis used a racial scoring system too.
 
I see what you did there....you want me to endorse single payer. My point was more that doctors shouldn't be giving treatments based on race or any "scoring system". My understanding is that even if you have no insurance now, and get admitted to the ICU, doctors "do everything" regardless of the out of pocket expenses incurred.

The Nazis used a racial scoring system too.

I am NOT endorsing a racial scoring system. I think the goal of the referenced program (shown below) is honorable, but the devil is in the details of #5.

1. To safeguard the public's health by allocating scarce treatments to maximize community benefit.

2. To create meaningful access for all patients. All patients who meet clinical eligibility criteria should have a chance to receive treatment.

3. To ensure that no one is excluded from access based on age, disability, religion, race, ethnicity, national origin, immigration status, gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity and to ensure that no one is denied access based on stereotypes, perceived quality of life, or judgements about a person's worth.

4. To ensure that all patients receive individualized assessments by clinicians, based on the best available objective medical evidence.


5. To proactively mitigate health disparities in COVID-19 outcomes.

That's going to be very hard to do fairly. It may even be impossible. And if it can't be done fairly, it probably shouldn't be attempted as it could lead to some very undesirable downstream effects.

But you never answered my question. If "we [should] treat everyone equally without regard to race, religion or background" then should we also treat everyone equally without regard to wealth?

My answer is yes.
 
Just an observation....
I've seen a lot of COVID over the past few weeks in the ER. Probably 3-5 / day. None of them are "sick." I've admitted two and those two were not that sick. I've discharged the rest. The vast majority are < 50. Even the 70 year olds are not that sick. Surprisingly almost every single one is Hispanic. A few black and a few white otherwise. I don't know what's going on, how the hospitals are getting full in other areas like Houston and Miami. Do we have a different strain of COVID-19 out here in NorCal?

I'm starting to think this is a super duper wimpy virus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Just an observation....
I've seen a lot of COVID over the past few weeks in the ER. Probably 3-5 / day. None of them are "sick." I've admitted two and those two were not that sick. I've discharged the rest. The vast majority are < 50. Even the 70 year olds are not that sick. Surprisingly almost every single one is Hispanic. A few black and a few white otherwise. I don't know what's going on, how the hospitals are getting full in other areas like Houston and Miami. Do we have a different strain of COVID-19 out here in NorCal?

I'm starting to think this is a super duper wimpy virus.

I'm discharging about 80% of who I see. Those who get admitted are >60 or have severe chronic medical problems.
Our hospitals are full and on diversion, but what people don't get is that this was the normal state of affairs BEFORE COVID. Now we are just having our normal, almost-disaster census, and throw on the extra COVID patients. We did not use the 2 months of lockdown to increase our hospital capacity, and in fact decreased it due to nurse firings.
 
Just an observation....
I've seen a lot of COVID over the past few weeks in the ER. Probably 3-5 / day. None of them are "sick." I've admitted two and those two were not that sick. I've discharged the rest. The vast majority are < 50. Even the 70 year olds are not that sick. Surprisingly almost every single one is Hispanic. A few black and a few white otherwise. I don't know what's going on, how the hospitals are getting full in other areas like Houston and Miami. Do we have a different strain of COVID-19 out here in NorCal?

I'm starting to think this is a super duper wimpy virus.

I wish I knew man. Volumes are dropping here again, so the floor beds are emptying out. ICUs have been at capacity for weeks. Don't think there's a single ICU bed open anywhere in Houston, and the ED has become an extension of the ICU with all the boarders. Plenty of non sick covid patients, but lots of sick ones. Either that or the few that do get sick just stay on the vent for a long long time.
 
Just an observation....
I've seen a lot of COVID over the past few weeks in the ER. Probably 3-5 / day. None of them are "sick." I've admitted two and those two were not that sick. I've discharged the rest. The vast majority are < 50. Even the 70 year olds are not that sick. Surprisingly almost every single one is Hispanic. A few black and a few white otherwise. I don't know what's going on, how the hospitals are getting full in other areas like Houston and Miami. Do we have a different strain of COVID-19 out here in NorCal?

I'm starting to think this is a super duper wimpy virus.

I wish I knew man. Volumes are dropping here again, so the floor beds are emptying out. ICUs have been at capacity for weeks. Don't think there's a single ICU bed open anywhere in Houston, and the ED has become an extension of the ICU with all the boarders. Plenty of non sick covid patients, but lots of sick ones. Either that or the few that do get sick just stay on the vent for a long long time.


I think BTZ's bolded part has a lot to do with it. Working in the ED, my perspective skews towards @thegenius view but when I see ICU patients it's like "OMG this virus is terrible!" How can I get two so very different anecdotal impressions of the same virus? It's because the vast majority of patients with this virus do fine, but the small percentage who don't have a long & miserable disease course (paralyzed prone ventilation, CRRT, etc).

Strange to say, but a disease that killed quickly would be a much lower burden on our system
 
Just an observation....
I've seen a lot of COVID over the past few weeks in the ER. Probably 3-5 / day. None of them are "sick." I've admitted two and those two were not that sick. I've discharged the rest. The vast majority are < 50. Even the 70 year olds are not that sick. Surprisingly almost every single one is Hispanic. A few black and a few white otherwise. I don't know what's going on, how the hospitals are getting full in other areas like Houston and Miami. Do we have a different strain of COVID-19 out here in NorCal?

I'm starting to think this is a super duper wimpy virus.

Not surprising about the high Latino prevalence. Here the Latino community has very low mask use and very high resistance to wearing masks due to dizziness and concerns about "carbon dioxide."
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
Not surprising about the high Latino prevalence. Here the Latino community has very low mask use and very high resistance to wearing masks due to dizziness and concerns about "carbon dioxide."
Wait, you mean they're wrong? I thought CO2 is poison that's going to "make the planet uninhabitable in 9 years"?
 
Wait, you mean they're wrong? I thought CO2 is poison that's going to "make the planet uninhabitable in 9 years"?

Lol. Our CMO was doing outreach to the Latino community and there was huge resistance to masking. You would think as members of a community that has been devastated by this people would be more interested in prevention. But no.
 
Lol. Our CMO was doing outreach to the Latino community and there was huge resistance to masking. You would think as members of a community that has been devastated by this people would be more interested in prevention. But no.
Agree.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top