What do you call a PA

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Revilla said:
I had a college professor who was a P.A. with a PhD. and he also worked at an ER here in town. I was volunteering there once and I had no idea what to call him since he technically was a "doctor." All the patients called him doctor and his lab coat said "Dr. XXX" so that's what I called him, though I felt it was a little deceptive in a medical setting. On his badge, it did say PA-C.
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See, I don't like that. Only MDs and DOs should be "doctor" in a hospital... Just seems unsafe to me.
 
Bacchus said:
The PA did not go to medical school nor did he or she complete a residency (of the same caliber) that all physicians must complete. He or she is not a doctor.
.
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I dont think its that fact that they didnt complete a residency of the same caliber. They didnt go to medical and earn the doctoral degree, as PA programs generally are just masters programs. No med school.....no doctoral degree....no doctor
 
This is interesting because I went to the health center the other day and the nurse said "Oh, you will be seeing Dr. (so-and-so)". So during my check up, I was like "Oh, what medical school did you go to?" She said, "Oh, I did a PA course..." And I was thinking to myself "Then why is Dr. on my prescription paper?????"

But inspite of that, she knew her stuff and I actually thought she was a doctor...
 
Bacchus said:
Its 2 years and residency.
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I don't think PAs have to do any sort of residency. It's one-year classroom, one-year rotations. That's it, I believe, unless you choose to do additional training. Some schools have a three-year program.
 
cuadrado said:
I dont think its that fact that they didnt complete a residency of the same caliber. They didnt go to medical and earn the doctoral degree, as PA programs generally are just masters programs. No med school.....no doctoral degree....no doctor
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Exactly. I've never actually experienced this type of scenario where a PA introduces him/herself as a doctor. It's ridiculous and deceiving. I agree with one poster above about calling them "PA ___" as an appropriate way to address them.
 
Revilla said:
I don't think PAs have to do any sort of residency. It's one-year classroom, one-year rotations. That's it, I believe, unless you choose to do additional training. Some schools have a three-year program.
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Correct. There's no residency (although for PAs in specialty programs, they will sometimes have additional formal training, or more informal "on the job training"). PA programs are typically 24 month programs. Most PA programs are Masters programs set up separately from undergrad programs, but there are a few out there that are 5 year BS/MS programs where you essentially earn your BS in the first 3 years, then continue the 4th and 5th years in Masters studies.

As was pointed out, PA programs are generally 12 months of classroom didactics, and 12 months of clinical rotations.

I have nothing against PAs, and I am very good friends with 2 of them. The PAs I've interacted with have all been exceptional at what they do. However, they also fortunately know their role in the healthcare system and never make an attempt to present themselves as a doctor. As PandaBear will say, a lot of the stuff that goes on in a primary care office is not rocket science, and a 2 year Masters program is usually more than adequate to give someone the tools to , say, control essential hypertension. But their basic science years are abbreviated compared to medical school curriculums, and while some people will argue that PA programs "cut out the fluff", it's this fluff that enables physicians to competently handle more complex patients at a higher volume. And that doesn't even address the glaring disparity in clinical experience during education (1 year vs. 5-9 years).
 
majahops said:
As a physician, I'm always going to ask that my co-workers, staff and patients call me by my first name. Because my name isn't Doctor <<last name>>, it's Tim... and I want to know them as people and for them to know me as a person, not as a title.

... but I know I'll be pretty unique in that respect, and that's just fine by me 🙂

Many of the best doctors I know happen to have this policy, and it always just made sense to me.
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I agree on the one had, but I do want to be known as "Doctor." it takes a lot of work to earn that title. I think I'll just go by "Dr. Katt" especially if I end up working in Peds. Not to mention I don't like my last name. 😛

(speaking of, to any female premeds, do you plan on changing your name when you get married, or keeping the your maiden name?)
 
There is a HUGE thread about the female physician name change thing. Search it 😀 From what I saw, many female physicians either hyphenate or keep their original last name. (As an aside, I think hyphenation is an all around great idea.)
 
HurricaneKatt said:
(speaking of, to any female premeds, do you plan on changing your name when you get married, or keeping the your maiden name?)
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If he has a better last name than I do, I might take it. My last name is pretty common.

However, if I graduate unmarried and with my same last name, I suspect I will remain Dr. Smith* and not change my name.

*not actual name, but same general variety of common last name.
 
OK, I don't think any other of the forum PA regulars have chimed in, so I will: in general, if you don't know the PA well, it's polite and proper to refer to s/he as "Mr. Lastname, or Mrs./Ms. Lastname". If you're on a first-name basis with them, by all means call him/her by it, although generally when speaking to patients I prefer to uphold a bit of the professional stance by having the office staff refer to me as "Ms. Lastname, PA". Some folks go by "PA Lastname" or "PA Firstname", although that always sounded awkward to me.

Now, I always introduce myself as "Firstname Lastname, Physician Assistant". If patients can't figure it out and insist on referring to me as "doctor" (and I try to correct them twice, and then I let it go, because I've done my part) then that's their issue, not mine. I've NEVER held myself out as a doctor because I am not one and am not interested in a fraud charge. By law I wear a nametag that has my first and last name on it and "Physician Assistant-Certified" spelled out. I'm pretty sure that every state's PA legislation has something requiring appropriate ID of the PA.

For the most part people just call me Lisa though. My medical assistant now is very old-fashioned and to my face will NOT call me Lisa, so I'm Ms. Lastname. It's annoying but I figure what the heck, it's the south, so I've given up with her. Patients are about a 50:50 mix. The younger ones call me by my first name, the older ones by my last name, and some are stuck on "Doctor Lisa", which as I say, I've tried, and I've given up.

🙄
 
pianola said:
The PA I saw in the hospital a couple of summers ago introduced herself as "Dr."
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Maybe this person also has a PhD, and has therefore gone by "doctor", even before he/she became a PA.
 
Revilla said:
I had a college professor who was a P.A. with a PhD. and he also worked at an ER here in town. I was volunteering there once and I had no idea what to call him since he technically was a "doctor." All the patients called him doctor and his lab coat said "Dr. XXX" so that's what I called him, though I felt it was a little deceptive in a medical setting. On his badge, it did say PA-C.
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The D stands for Doctor - he worked hard for it I'm sure.
 
Last edited:
-5 points to you for having a huge signature. +4 points for being a fellow San Antonian.
 
goldenwest said:
-5 points to you for having a huge signature. +4 points for being a fellow San Antonian.
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Only +4 for being from SA? I thought hailing from such an awesome hometown would engender more points than that... oh well, I've been thinking of trimming it for a while, hopefully I'll be able to accommodate your eyes soon 🙂
 
GoSpursGo said:
Only +4 for being from SA? I thought hailing from such an awesome hometown would engender more points than that... oh well, I've been thinking of trimming it for a while, hopefully I'll be able to accommodate your eyes soon 🙂
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+12 points for the trim and +6 bonus for SA being your hometown.
 
MCAT PS question #11

How many points does GoSpursGo now have?
A) 10
B) 13
C) 15
D) 17

:scared:
 
I find it a bit silly to request that people/peers address you by your professional title in a social setting. How is a physician's degree more relevant than that of say an electrician in a non-medical setting? How often do you here, "Hello. I'm J. Bloggs, MBA."? In the UK surgeons are referred to as Mr or Mrs/Miss. Other physicians are referred to as Dr. Another thing I like about their system is that the common medical degree is not a doctoral one, but rather a bachelor's. It makes sense to me that doctoral degrees be given only to those who have contributed scientific knowledge through research/dissertation. The definition of doctor in Latin is "teacher" - which is what researchers/scientists/PhDs do through their research. By that definition, it is somewhat innapropriate to refer to physicians as "doctors". How exactly do physicians teach any more than, say auto mechanics?

I am saying that in a medical/clinical setting only physicians should be called doctors for ease of communication. However, outside of that setting only scientists/PhDs should be called doctors and physicians should either be called "physicians" or "medical doctors". It just is not fair to hijack this title that should be reserved for true academics.
 
njbmd said:
Physican assistants who have earned doctorates (there are more than a few out there) can be addressed as "Doctor" but not in a setting where they are functioning as a physician assistant. All of the physician assistants who have doctorates (Ph.D, Pharm.D etc) have never attempted to introduce themselves as "Doctor" to their patients and quickly correct the patients who attempt to address them as "Doctor".

In an academic setting, if a person has earned a doctorate, (Ph.D, Pharm,D, Ed.D, MD, DO) they may be addressed as "Doctor" but Professor is a far better title and much more respectful. In a clinical setting (outside of psycologists), only physicians should be addressed as "Doctor".
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In an academic setting, the *only* professors I've heard referred to by "Professor <lastname>" were those that hadn't earned their doctorate. (relatively rare, but we do have some registered dietitians that teach nutrition classes and such like that).

Everyone else at my university defaults to doctor. Or, when just talking to other students, no honorific at all. ("How is Smith for chem?" "I was talking to Jones yesterday and he said..."
 
JeanLuc said:
I find it a bit silly to request that people/peers address you by your professional title in a social setting. How is a physician's degree more relevant than that of say an electrician in a non-medical setting? How often do you here, "Hello. I'm J. Bloggs, MBA."? In the UK surgeons are referred to as Mr or Mrs/Miss. Other physicians are referred to as Dr. Another thing I like about their system is that the common medical degree is not a doctoral one, but rather a bachelor's. It makes sense to me that doctoral degrees be given only to those who have contributed scientific knowledge through research/dissertation. The definition of doctor in Latin is "teacher" - which is what researchers/scientists/PhDs do through their research. By that definition, it is somewhat innapropriate to refer to physicians as "doctors". How exactly do physicians teach any more than, say auto mechanics?

I am saying that in a medical/clinical setting only physicians should be called doctors for ease of communication. However, outside of that setting only scientists/PhDs should be called doctors and physicians should either be called "physicians" or "medical doctors". It just is not fair to hijack this title that should be reserved for true academics.
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In the UK the medical degree is a bachelors you earn straight out of high school. In the US the MD is a professional level doctorate that you earn after you already have a bachelors degree. Theres your difference...

MDs have substantially more training than mechanics, especially when you consider the human body isn't designed by an engineer and made, in a uniform fashion, by a factory. I think thats a reason for the higher degree of respect...
 
Raryn said:
In the UK the medical degree is a bachelors you earn straight out of high school. In the US the MD is a professional level doctorate that you earn after you already have a bachelors degree. Theres your difference...

MDs have substantially more training than mechanics, especially when you consider the human body isn't designed by an engineer and made, in a uniform fashion, by a factory. I think thats a reason for the higher degree of respect...
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You're right in saying that an American "professional level doctorate" in medicine is equivalent to a bachelors in medicine in the UK. The point I was trying to make is that the academic title "doctor" is too easily thrown around. Refer to doctors of pharmacy, optometry, podiatry, physical therapy, chiropractic, and all the other self-proclaimed doctors for further examples of the American "professional level doctorate". Also, in the UK (and most other Commonwealth countries), an MD is a research-based doctorate similar to a PhD and acquired post-MBBS.

The part that bothers me with the manner in which "doctor" is used in social settings is that it suggests to the other person that he or she is somehow required to give you a higher level of respect than what he or she would give for another person. It is the conveying/promoting of a message of assumed superiority that bothers me. In the social setting, the higher degree of respect is something that should develop on an individual basis (for physicians and non-physicians) and should not be assumed in either direction. E.g. it should not be assumed that a given auto mechanic is not worthy of equal respect/recognition as a given physician.

You've made your point. I just wanted to say why it bothers me.
 
JeanLuc said:
By that definition, it is somewhat innapropriate to refer to physicians as "doctors". How exactly do physicians teach any more than, say auto mechanics?

I am saying that in a medical/clinical setting only physicians should be called doctors for ease of communication. However, outside of that setting only scientists/PhDs should be called doctors and physicians should either be called "physicians" or "medical doctors". It just is not fair to hijack this title that should be reserved for true academics.
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Clinical research, teaching students.
 
dazed1980 said:
Not really. All this person has to do is clarify that they are The PA, not the MD.
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Patients have enough trouble trying to understand that medical student are not doctors. How do you think they'll handle "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, and I'm not a doctor"?

The people who have a "non-medical" doctorate but insist on being called "doctor" in a clinical setting are frauds. And more importantly, they're idiots.
 
No no no, I mean, when a patient calls in to the phone room and says hey, I've got a rash I need checked out, the phone room person should say "OK, Ms. Lastname, our PA, would be happy to see you at 3 o'clock..." "Great".
Something like that. I don't appreciate it when the phone people or front desk people say "Lisa can see you". I think that sounds too informal.

Now, my nursing staff calls me Lisa for the most part, except for my MA, who insists on calling me by my last name even though we've been working together for a year. It's annoying but it's just the way she is. Patients call me whatever they call me. Docs call me Lisa; it's cool, at least here I get to call them by their first names too, although when speaking to a patient I make a point to say "See Dr Lastname for followup next week...." I try NOT to refer to docs by their first names to patients.

Get it? Confused? It's not that big a deal.

Oh, and for PAs with earned doctorates, I agree that in the academic setting it's OK to say "Dr. so-and-so", but not in the clinical setting. Most of us PAs see it this way, even those who've got that hard-earned Ph.D. Perhaps it's because we're relatively anti-title people.

And as far as being referred to as "Assistant" Lisa, please, no, thank you. There is very little in my job that I do that "assists" anyone other than the patients I take care of.

L.

shaggybill said:
So when a nurse asks a question, you make her say, "Ms. Davis, PA, should I give patient xyz a dose of abc?"

That's quite a mouthful, and a little awkward.
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Depakote said:
So if I came to medical school with a PhD in economics and I hit M3 knowing absolutely nothing about clinical medicine, it's ok for me to tell patients I'm a doctor?
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Well, it would be important for him to distinguish. He mentioned that the guy had a tag on with PA on it. It's the duty of everyone in the health field to clear up ignorance and ambiguity for the patient.

On a lighter note, what do you call a PA with no arms and no legs?
 
dazed1980 said:
Maybe this person also has a PhD, and has therefore gone by "doctor", even before he/she became a PA.
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even still, ABSOLUTELY inappropriate in a clinical setting. could you imagine the lawsuits if someone with a PhD in art history went around your local ICU calling him/herself Dr. ____? In fact, im pretty sure there are already laws reserving the title of "Dr." in a clinical setting for MDs/DOs.
 
NJDIF said:
even still, ABSOLUTELY inappropriate in a clinical setting. could you imagine the lawsuits if someone with a PhD in art history went around your local ICU calling him/herself Dr. ____? In fact, im pretty sure there are already laws reserving the title of "Dr." in a clinical setting for MDs/DOs.
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Honestly I don't see a problem with it until someone begins giving medical advice. If a patient asks Dr. So-and-so (PA) a question he should respond with "Well I'm not a medical doctor I'm just a physicians assistant, but..." and so on.
 
goldenwest said:
Honestly I don't see a problem with it until someone begins giving medical advice. If a patient asks Dr. So-and-so (PA) a question he should respond with "Well I'm not a medical doctor I'm just a physicians assistant, but..." and so on.
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It's a good thing PA's never give medical advice then.

And you are giving patients WAAAAAAAAAY too much credit. You'll see.
 
rogerwilco said:
It's a good thing PA's never give medical advice then.
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Umm, that's why I said that's when a problem would begin.

rogerwilco said:
And you are giving patients WAAAAAAAAAY too much credit. You'll see.
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What do you mean? That they'll ask questions? If you're saying they won't know what a PA is then I agree which is why I said he should explain it.
 
goldenwest said:
Umm, that's why I said that's when a problem would begin.



What do you mean? That they'll ask questions? If you're saying they won't know what a PA is then I agree which is why I said he should explain it.
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Patients have a difficult enough time delineating what a "medical student" is. In clinical settings, we wear white coats. Hell, even if we wore a clown suit, if we had a stethoscope around our neck and tried to act intelligent, they're gonna peg us as a doctor half the time.

Now you're expecting patients to interact with someone in a whitecoat, dispensing actual medical advice, who refers to him or herself as "doctor", and not get confused?

The midlevels who insist on being referred to as "doctor" in any type of setting are not the kind of people who are going to go out of their way to say "I'm not a doctor, I'm a PA . . . "
 
goldenwest said:
Honestly I don't see a problem with it until someone begins giving medical advice. If a patient asks Dr. So-and-so (PA) a question he should respond with "Well I'm not a medical doctor I'm just a physicians assistant, but..." and so on.
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that is what is implied in "clinical setting." just because i will hold a doctorate that happens to be in medicine, does not make me a qualified expert to dispense advise in any other field that degree granting institutions award doctorates for. there is a time and place for everything, and someone without an MD/DO in a clinical setting who calls themselves "doctor" is just asking for it.


Roger Wilco: The midlevels who insist on being referred to as "doctor" in any type of setting are not the kind of people who are going to go out of their way to say "I'm not a doctor, I'm a PA . . . "
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q4t.
 
rogerwilco said:
It's a good thing PA's never give medical advice then.

And you are giving patients WAAAAAAAAAY too much credit. You'll see.
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PAs definitely give medical advice to patients. In fact, 90% of a physician's duties can be done by a competent PA. That being said, the PAs in my practice group would NEVER introduce themselves as "Doctor" in a clinical setting even if they hold a doctorate of some type. They are just not interested in representing themselves as a physician but more interested in getting the work done which allows me, the physician, to do that other 10% that they are not able to perform either by law (or by training). This really isn't that much of a deal.

I can also distinctly remember that as a medical student, no Physician Assistant ever referred to themselves as "Doctor" in my presence or required that I address them as such. I addressed them as "Mr" or "Ms" in the clinical setting and "Professor" in an academic setting if they held that position.
 
I shadowed a doctor who was really social with the nurses, and when he called on the phone for one of the (male) nurses he was good buddies with on his unit, he would ask for "Nurse <last name>". It was the first time I heard someone refer to a nurse that way... but the doctor in question also seemed to respect the nurses more than average and had been married to one in the past. So...

Also worth mentioning that the nurse in question is a guy, and I don't recall hearing the doc refer to female nurses in that fashion, for what it's worth. Yeah... this is tangentially related to the OP 😉
 
What do you call a PA?
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A) Someone that regrets not going to med school.
B) Someone that wishes he earned the Dr. title they use
C) Hey you
D) All of the above

D.
 
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