What do you do with yourself when spouse is on call?

[Toofscum]

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Just wondering how others deal with this. My hubby is Q4 and it gets to me, always has, always will. He doesn't know this, I try to hide my feelings of complete and utter directionlessness when he's on call. When I lived alone for four years before getting married, I was always so self-sufficient. Now, however, I feel very restless and like I have no idea what to do with myself when he's on call. I have hobbies and interests but it's like I feel too lazy to get into them. I could watch movies, read, or cook I guess but I need something more all-encompassing. Today I spent the day aimlessly wandering by myself all over downtown, reading at Border's for a couple hours and having lunch alone in a nice restaurant, but now that it's 6 pm and I know I have until 8 am tomorrow to go, I feel totally and completely dysfunctional, as I usually do on on-call nights, particularly weekend on-call nights.

 

[lovemydrhubby]

Look into volunteer organizations...doing something to help others might help you feel more productive. Maybe volunteer to be a big sister w/ the local Big Brothers/Big Sisters.

Nothing wrong with relaxing either- I think sometimes we are so used to being on the go, we make ourselves feel guilty for "feeling like doing nothing" for a night.

What do I do on Q4 call... I have the kids to keep me company. Sometimes, I'll invite a friend over to watch a movie or we'll tape a tv show and watch together.

If I didn't have kids though, I'd be volunteering somewhere when my hubby was on call. Or exploring things I love, but he isn't really into...dancing, yoga, acting.

 

[tlew12778]

Get a pet. We have 2 cats. I'd be so lonely without them!

I go to the gym a lot when he's not around. I also cook a lot. I love learning new recipes, reading up on new cuisines I have yet to try my hand at, looking for all the hard to find ingredients. I also do all the house stuff when he's not around (he gets in the way when he's home actually).

Do you have GFs? I go out for drinks with the girls when he can't come with me.

 

[alison_in_oh]

Here's pretty much the same question, couched more dramatically: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=180573

 

[Mistress S]

Hey Toofscum, I have noticed a couple of your posts about not knowing what to do with yourself when your husband is busy with his education. I don't mean to be offensive, so please don't take this that way, but what about getting a job or attending school yourself? I don't know anything about you or your background, but it really sounds like you would benefit from having something in your life that you find personally gratifying outside of your home and relationship. I think that we all need to address both of these aspects of our lives to be fulfilled: it is important to have a home and family, and also something in our lives apart from home/family that we do as individuals which we find meaningful. For many people, this latter part is accomplished through an education and career, but it doesn't have to be--it could be an artistic or creative passion, charitable work, etc. It just sounds like you are looking for something to do with yourself, and there are a world of possibilities out there beyond going to the gym or getting a pet. Take some classes in subjects that interest you, volunteer with an organization whose work you find meaningful, or get a paying job. You will be more fulfilled as a person, and therefore have more to offer in your relationships with others. Good luck!

 

[fourthyearmed]

Don't you have any friends or family or a job? I'm sure your husband would rather be at home too, it's not like he's on call by choice so please don't take it out on him. Get involved in stuff - take a class, organize dinner with friends, whatever. Enjoy having some time for yourself, you're more than just a wife.

 

[Toofscum]

Hello,

My hubby is a resident, and we have no kids. I have a JD, but don't want to practice law. I have been job searching for three months so far, and I have not been offered anything that pays over $7 per hour. It's depressing. And we live in a pretty large city too--I would have thought there would be more job options, but unfortunately, when you have a JD employers view you suspiciously (though I also remove it from my resume when the situation warrants.)

I am spending my days networking, going on interviews, applying to jobs, etc. but I have not found anything. I am a bit tired of school right now so I'd rather wait a year or two before embarking on an entirely new career path--i.e. medicine, PhD in clinical psych, PT, etc. I hate the law and could never see myself practicing it (since realizing this in law school) so that is defintiely out. But all that talk about law being the "ultimate flexible degree" is a load of crap. It pigeonholes you to the point where employers keep saying to me, "you're overqualified; you'll be bored; you'll stay a few months and then leave when you find something better." I can't seem to find a job that would be more at my "level" according to these comments from employers I keep getting.

I am involved in a lot of activities, but when you have no job I basically have 16 hours in my day to fill. I take a fun adult ed class once per week, do yoga, play in a volleyball league, and am in a book club, but these things are in no way enough to adequately "fill" my days. I also volunteer and work out every day. Ususally I end up sleeping in very late (noon), doing my job search, doing my other activities, and going to bed around 2 or 3 am and repeating the cycle. But on call nights, especially, I get VERY lonely and depressed.

We have no family here in the state where we live, and I have only one female friend that I've made since I moved here not knowing anyone, but she's only available once a month or so to hang out. I've tried very, very hard to make friends but it's extremely difficult. I was just complaining about it to my husband today, about how hard I've tried through all my activities, etc., and his conclusion is that people are just lazy, they don't take want to take the initiative to make a new friend, even when I'm doing all the asking (coffee, lunch, etc.)

So as you can see, I feel the need to fill my time when my husband is on call Q4 and already works 12 hour days (not counting the studying afterwards) as it is. I do pretty much everything alone--going to movies, out to dinner, shopping, the theater, etc. and I am getting very depressed about it, since it's been two years of this already. I am already spending my days reading, watching movies, job searching, working out, volunteering, but my nights are pretty empty.

Thoughts?

 

[lovemydrhubby]

Does your husband's school/program have a spouse support group or auxillary group? If not, ask your DH about other residents with wives...maybe you can get together with them and even form a group. Other ways to meet people- well, I've heard good things about meetup.com they have all sorts of interests. I have no personal knowledge though.

You could check into local colleges/community colleges for classes to take. They don't have to be big or even going towards something specific- just something you like. I think I'd probably take a literature class. I love to read and analyze books, but I'm really bad at doing it on my own. Maybe they have some art classes, psychology, computers, etc. that you would like.

I can see where your days would feel so long and get depressing after a while. You can try to rearrange some of your volunteering or working out to do that in the evenings? that way you have more time during the day for job search or to be with your husband when he's off (lol do they really have days off?!) It might break up some of the day too- not sure.

Lastly, there are always online groups to join. Do a search for your favorite TV show, hobby, location etc. Or for Medical Spouses... there are a couple yahoo groups and one website just for med spoouses (there is actually a link on the main SDN page).

 

[fourthyearmed]

What about some of the female residents in your husband's program as friends? I'm a single female resident who's surrounded by married residents who just want to hang out with their spouses. I'd love to make friends with other resident's wives in order to have more people to hang out with. Plus if your husband's on call, they probably aren't.

 

[Toofscum]

My hubby really doesn't know anyone in his program very well...and there is no spousal support group there either. I guess I could join some online groups, but I'd prefer a real person do hang out with.....

I think once I get a job (if, when?????) things will be better. I would like to get one full-time job and one part-time job to help with the lonliness, but I can't find either!

 

[Toofscum]

Well....here's an update on the situation. After three months of looking, I have finally landed a part-time job in......retail. I make $9 an hour, which I guess isn't too bad for a retail job. No benefits tho. It's an ok arrangement.....they could only give me part-time, even though I wanted full-time, but I still have my days free to do interviews, b/c I work mostly at night and on the weekends.

I still have my music classes once a week at night, but even with this new part-time job, I still am totally directionless....I wish I could pick up another part-time or full-time job, but they can't give me set days--my schedule changes from week to week. So without knowing set days, I'd think it would be pretty hard to get another job. I was lucky to get this job....I applied to over 30 retail stores and 20 restaurants--maybe b/c it's summer there's too much competition--or maybe they "sensed" that I am only doing this to bide time until I find a real job.....

I just hope no one I know comes into the store--the other day, after I'd finished my shift, I ran into a girl from my high school and unfortunately she asked what I'm doing now....thank goodness I had already taken my name tag off....I said, "I've been looking for a job for three months," she said, "don't you have a law degree?" I said, yeah, but......it's still hard to find a job even with that.

Anyhow, any advice for other ways to structure my days? The 30 hours they've given me as part-time definitely is not enough, even with all the job searching and informational interviewing I've been doing....I still feel extremely alone and lonely.....I'm so tired of going to nice restaurants and movie theaters by myself!!!! Especailly on the weekends!

Should I get an internship that I could do on different days of the week as my schedule allows? Should I do more medical volunteering? Should I try to meet new female friends at the gym? I really wish I had even one girl friend to hang out with! 🙁

 

[beachsaki101]

Toofscum,

I was in your shoes several years ago re: jobsearching and being lonesome when husband's out. Be persistent. It'll pay off.

I envy you for your free time. I have a family to take care: young child, severely ill mother... I don't know how I will manage everything with my pharmacy school schedule. Enjoy your free time while it lasts.

 

[Toofscum]

I know, I'm trying to be persistent....but quite honestly, I'm burned out by the job search. After sending out 5-10 resumes every day, doing 1-2 informational interviews per day, networking with every alum from both my undergrad and law school, hand-delivering resumes, cold-contacting companies/organizations......I am burned out. Rejection after rejection....well, I get interviews, and sometimes call-back interviews, but every single time they say, "you're overqualified." Argghhhhhh!!!!!

Now that I've been working for a bit in this retail job, maybe I can decrease the job searching from 25 hours a week maybe to 10. I'm just way burned out. I think anyone would be after getting the door slammed in their face over and over again and growing even more bitter by the day that their graduate degree is getting them nowehere........

When I was hired for this retail job (on the spot, too), it was so refreshing. They said, "you have the perfect qualifications for this job." Yes!!!!! Now why can't a job that pays more than $9 per hour say that to me???????

Sometimes free time is a double-edged sword. Of course, I love it, but when every day, day after day is filled with free time....it gets hard to structure your time and truly appreciate it without feeling anxious......when I'm reading a book, or watching three movies in a row, I get to thinking, "shouldn't I be sending out the 20th resume of the week now, or shouldn't I be emailing some more alums...." I do wish I could just relax and have a more zen-like relationship with my oodles of free time, but it's hard. Plus, I just get so darned lonely when I'm home alone day after day, night after night.....with no one to talk to........there are only so many scarves you can knit, movies you can watch, web sites you can surf until you start to get really, really lonely.....Any advice?

As a child, I was so resourceful.....I just have one brother, and he's 12 years older than me, so I grew up playing by myself basically all the time......now, however, as an adult I feel like I'm having trouble doing that now......maybe I just haven't found that all-consuming activity yet........

 

[MoosePilot]

I haven't had that situation in a long time. I envy you a little bit, too, although I'm sure it would get old.

If your issue is largely about filling your time, then consider hobbies. Mine tend to eat my time up very well. Woodworking, metal working, gardening, hiking, backpacking, bicycling, swimming, kayaking... there's probably a million things to do depending on where you live. Some of them are probably very inexpensive and will leave you in better health, ready to tackle whatever you decide to do next.

Learn a language. I've always wanted to learn another language.

Read the classics. Or some new trash. Whatever.

I know you're not very traditional, but is everything done around the house? I'm not saying this because you're female, but because you're the one with extra time, while it sounds like your husband has a shortage. Is there anything you can do for him that he can't do due to lack of time?

You should also consider why nothing seems fun. Are you depressed? Maybe seeking treatment for depression would help. Generally someone in good health with just a surplus of free time will have no trouble filling it. I think you should consider why this isn't the case.

Good luck!

 

[Toofscum]

Yeah, I do everything around the house....it doesn't bother me at all....I think it's only fair since my hubby is a resident while I'm a.....retail worker....so I cook, clean, tidy up...everything except the laundry, which is his chore (and something I absolutely hate to do.) So anyhow, yes the house is always clean and neat and I take pride in that, but really, that only takes up about 1.5 hours of my day, since we live in an apartment.

Next.....hobbies. I do have some hobbies but I could get more. All the things you mentioned sound fun but again, I'd be doing them alone....I'm trying to get into things where I can meet some other females. I take a music class (adult ed center) once a week....no females in the class at all. I take yoga....no one under the age of 40. I work out occasionally--well, that's solitary. I'm in a book club--that's ok, only once a month. I'm in a women's dinner club....again, only once a month. I haven't met any "friends" out of these activities--just acquaintances. No one I'd feel comfy calling up to chat or asking out to lunch (already tried that with little success. People seem very intimidaated when another gal asks them out for coffee, etc.) I read a book a week, which is a good pace for me. And I have a few pets that I play with on a daily basis.

I think the issue is not that I'm depressed....I think that it's being overwhelmed with free time. Absolutely overwhelmed.

I think maybe it's rare for others to be in this situation who don't have kids. And maybe it's hard for those not in the situation--those who have kids to keep them company, friends, etc. to know just how lonely it gets when you're home alone night after night. I guess a stay at home mom may have a lot of free time, but she's also taking care of the kids and also most likely an actual house....I have no kids yet I'm a stay at home wife more or less, and we just have a small apartment to tend to....there's really nothing for me to "take care of" beyond an hour and a half or so of tidying per day. I mean sure, I can do a few errands a week, but that takes up like 30 minutes a day maybe. How many women in my age group are stay at home wives--with no kids? Because I guess that's what I am right now and I'm not happy with the situation at all....actively trying to change it, but it's not like you pick the job....the job picks you.

I think free time is great in small blocks--say a few hours at a time...but I have the whole day unstrucutred, that's free time. And the other aspect of why nothing seems fun--though that's not entirely true--is b/c of the lonliness factor. Despite my very best efforts, meeting a female friend to hang out with has not been easy. Well, it really hasn't happened. I'd be a lot happier if I knew I had a friend to call up and go do whatever--movies, eating out, etc.

I had a bitch and moan fest about this to my husband tongiht and I guess I'm not done bitching and moaning......he thinks I've tried everything there is to try and that there's really nothing left to try....except to get even more hobbies. I really feel stuck....and not sure what to do about it. I can only look for jobs in my city--since we're here for residency for a few more years--so not really sure what to do since the jobs aren't exactly materializing.

 

[f_w]

Of all the characters on the 'spouses' forum you are somehow the most interesting one. How can one finish law school and not like to work in law ? I am a physician for a while now, and once I found out that law school is only 3 years I dabbled with the idea to go back to do the MD/JD thing. Not to get away from medicine (I love it), but rather because I want to expand my horizon and maybe carve out a niche between the two fields. (The two forces holding me back are my wife and the the abundance of grey hair on my head, a sign that I have spent way too much time in my life on education).

Don't you want to at least give it a try ? Maybe work for a public interest firm. I know the job marked for attorneys is not that rosy, but particularly for your further career plans it just looks better to be employed in your field of expertise rather than some retail job.

How do you service your school loans ? (or are you one of the lucky people who had a dad who could pick up the entire tab)

 

[Toofscum]

Law school was a bad decision. At age 22, who really knows what they want to do? At age 22, I was a poli sci major with no direction. And what does a smart poli sci major with a minor in international relations with no direction do who had a good GPA and did well on the LSAT? Law school. As a side note, law school is filled with bitter pre-med dropout types. I met tons of them while I was there. Heck, I was one myself!

Before I went to law school I had never met an actual lawyer. Hadn't the foggiest idea of what practicing law entailed. No clue whatsoever. I just did it....because I could, and because it seemed like a responsible path to take. My mother kept telling me, "when you graduate, you'll be a professional. You'll be respected in the community. You'll have a great job and you can get manicures and pedicures every week if you want them." I thought this sounded great. It does sound great. Problem is, I thought law was utterly boring.

I should have known it was a bad sign when a big packet full of cases to read before law school started arrived in the mail a few weeks before orientation, and I took one look at them and stashed them in my closet, never to be looked at again.....

Law school bored me from day one. I hated it. I zoned out in class. My law school class notebooks are all filled with plans for my post-bacc years, and lists of all the EC's I'd do to get into med school--from the second year on I have these. Daydreaming about med school and being a doctor was what got me through those boring classes. I stuck with it, though, because I thought eventually in three years I'd find a specialty that interested me...emplyoment law, personal injury, patent law, mergers and acquisitions..... No such luck. They all equally bored me. In my law school summers, I worked at firms. Hated everything about firms, hated legal work, hated it all, looked at my watch 20 times an hour. As a 3L, I knew I needed to find a new career. So I decided on medicine. But I graduated, got my JD, and here I am today. Looking for a job (JD-preferred or non-JD-preferred, I really don't care. I am looking in 6 specific areas, though, just to better target my job search. One of those areas is the non-profit sector; I am not the corporate type at all.)

Anyhow, I have no interest whatsoever in practicing law. It's a lot of stress, responsibility, long hours, law firm politics, and dealing with annoying anal type-A lawyer types, all of which I don't think are worth it for a career I have zero interest in. There really isn't a single aspect of law that intrests me, except the fact that overall they have good job security. Plus, being out of law school for awhile, I really don't remember anything. So that's another factor.

Many people are surprised that I don't even want to practice for a year or two to see what it's like, but the truth is, I really don't. I do have loans, but they're not that bad. LAw school isn't that expensive comapred to med school. I am paying my monthly loan bills with my hubby's help (and post-bacc loans too.)

 

[Amtekoth]

I joined the housestaff auxillary when my wife started her residency. I was the only guy there (>50 women). I ended up participating in a monthly bookclub that was as much about going out for desserts and gabbing as it was for literature. I made some very good friends there and we were all going through the same issues. If there isn't an existing organization for housestaff spouses at your husband's program, consider starting one.

 

[Cuteasaurus]

Anyhow, I have no interest whatsoever in practicing law. It's a lot of stress, responsibility, long hours, law firm politics, and dealing with annoying anal type-A lawyer types, all of which I don't think are worth it for a career I have zero interest in. There really isn't a single aspect of law that intrests me, except the fact that overall they have good job security. Plus, being out of law school for awhile, I really don't remember anything. So that's another factor.

The law you're describing sounds like the traditional lawyer in a law firm route...but I know lots of ppl who went to law school who are completely different tracks. If you're interested in medicine...couldn't you volunteer at one of those orgs that help homeless people with medical and legal issues? You could be around medical things while still providing a service... And, maybe you could find something similar that would even pay you.

 

[Law2Doc]

It's a lot of stress, responsibility, long hours, ... politics, and dealing with annoying anal type-A ... types ...

Note that when I pull out this sentence from your paragraph and add a few "..."s it is a sentence which will totally apply to any professional job - including (especially) medicine. If these are the kind of things that have dissuaded you from law, you will not be happy in your new choice of career, which I would suggest in medicine is going to be even higher stress, more responsibility (you will be responsible for life and death decisions), and longer hours. Type A types and office/administration politics will be found in any professional job, unless you hang up a shingle and set out on your own, which you could have done in law eventually, had you stuck with it.
Honestly, you cannot know whether you would have liked practicing law until you have tried it for a few years. Law school is nothing like practice, and newly minted lawyers don't tend to "get it" until well after their first year of practice anyhow (prior to that it is just piecework, and you are expected to be bored and are paying your dues while learning from the bottom up). But there are a zillion things you can do with a law degree (and many books with titles like this) other than medicine, and as a prior poster indicated, there are a variety of ways the two degrees might ultimately be combined. I think you have a bigger problem -- you have picked up a fantastic credential and yet you are constantly whining on a bulletin board about how it is hurting you. More likely your attitude and mindset are what is keeping you in the state you are in.
Perhaps you should contact brotherbloat and form a support group. 🙄

 

[OSURxgirl]

I think it's sad that you were ashamed to have someone you know see you in your new work environment. How are you going to make any friends if you are ashamed to even tell them who you are or what you do? If you need money, you work. If you are too ashamed by your retail job, then maybe you need to find something to use your JD degree and give it a real chance. I'm just confused about how you actually have so much time left...you say you're working hard on your job search, you're doing post-bacc work, you currently work part-time, do all the housework, read books, belong to a few clubs, etc. I would think these things alone would fill my time. I also agree with the above poster...if you want a job free of stess and long hours, you will NOT be happy in medicine or as a medical student. I think you're afraid to start your grown up life and feel that by constantly changing career directions you can keep yourself from ever having to join the real world. You need to talk to a career counselor and probably a psychologist about your career issues, lack of self esteem, your depression, and your denial of your depression.

 

[Cuteasaurus]

OSURxgirl brings up an interesting point...how much more time do you need to be "taken up" by activities. 30 hrs a week isn't too much less than "full-time" and with all the other things you're doing, it certainly seems like you'd have lots to do. How many more hours were you looking to fill?

 

[samenewme]

Next.....hobbies. I do have some hobbies but I could get more. All the things you mentioned sound fun but again, I'd be doing them alone....I'm trying to get into things where I can meet some other females. I take a music class (adult ed center) once a week....no females in the class at all. I take yoga....no one under the age of 40. ...

I keep looking at this last sentence and imagining the unwritten ending (and women over 40 don't drink coffee because their bladders have fallen out; and they can't walk anymore because they're so old; and they all speak Middle English and I can't understand them...). As I wrote to brotherbloat, who had the same complaint, don't write off the over-40 women. They make great friends and fine mentors.

Letitia Baldrige wrote a great book on making friends and having a social life: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-9571011-5238226?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
which might help you connect with people over coffee or whatever.

 

[Toofscum]

I think it's sad that you were ashamed to have someone you know see you in your new work environment. How are you going to make any friends if you are ashamed to even tell them who you are or what you do?

Working retail is not what I "do." It's hopefully a temporary situation until I find a job that pays more than $9 per hour. I just didn't want to go into all the explaining about my JD, my path that got me here, post-bacc, etc. It's too long of a story and I didn't want some patronizing speech from this person. It's bad enough I get the patronizing speeches from my family.

If you need money, you work. If you are too ashamed by your retail job, then maybe you need to find something to use your JD degree and give it a real chance.

I am trying to find a job that's JD-preferred--I have spent the last few months more or less full-time dedicated to the task. However, I'm stuck to one city since my hubby is in residency. When your job search is curtailed by geographical factors, I think you have fewer options. The important thing is that my retail job leaves my days free so I can keep going on interviews, as I did today (I had two.)

I'm just confused about how you actually have so much time left...you say you're working hard on your job search, you're doing post-bacc work, you currently work part-time, do all the housework, read books, belong to a few clubs, etc. I would think these things alone would fill my time.

Well, I'm not counting hours here....but it just FEELS like I have tons and tons of free time. My job search takes up around 5 hours of my day, I work 30 hours per week, I'm not doing post-bacc work right now, I do all the housework (doesn't take much time in a small one-bedroom apt.), and the rest doesn't take much time either.....what I'm looking for is to hopefully find an all-encompassing activitiy....or a friend or two with whom to hang out.

I also agree with the above poster...if you want a job free of stess and long hours, you will NOT be happy in medicine or as a medical student. I think you're afraid to start your grown up life and feel that by constantly changing career directions you can keep yourself from ever having to join the real world. You need to talk to a career counselor and probably a psychologist about your career issues, lack of self esteem, your depression, and your denial of your depression.

I never said I wanted a job free of stress and long hours. Law has these, yes, but the other thing is that I have zero interest in the subject matter of law. Why put yourself through long hours and tons of stress when you have no interest in the subject matter? However, I have a huge, genuine interest in medicne and science, so the long hours and stress would be worth it. To me, this is a key distinction. I'm not trying to constantly change career directions--I don't think it's worth it for anyone to be miserable in a field they hate, as I do with law, thus I changed careers once and did a post-bacc and have to put off appyling for a year or two while I re-take the MCAT for the third time. That's all. And I need to find a career oriented job b/c we can't survive much longer when I'm only making $9 per hour.

 

[Toofscum]

OSURxgirl brings up an interesting point...how much more time do you need to be "taken up" by activities. 30 hrs a week isn't too much less than "full-time" and with all the other things you're doing, it certainly seems like you'd have lots to do. How many more hours were you looking to fill?

I'm not sure how many hours exactly, per se, but when you never see your husband the time seems to drag on.....all I'm saying is that I'd like to be busier. I feel like I have too much time on my hands right now, I can't say exactly how many more hours I'd like to fill, I'd just like to have another more all-encompassing activitiy, but unfortuantely I can't get another job.

 

[Toofscum]

Note that when I pull out this sentence from your paragraph and add a few "..."s it is a sentence which will totally apply to any professional job - including (especially) medicine. If these are the kind of things that have dissuaded you from law, you will not be happy in your new choice of career, which I would suggest in medicine is going to be even higher stress, more responsibility (you will be responsible for life and death decisions), and longer hours. Type A types and office/administration politics will be found in any professional job, unless you hang up a shingle and set out on your own, which you could have done in law eventually, had you stuck with it.
Honestly, you cannot know whether you would have liked practicing law until you have tried it for a few years. Law school is nothing like practice, and newly minted lawyers don't tend to "get it" until well after their first year of practice anyhow (prior to that it is just piecework, and you are expected to be bored and are paying your dues while learning from the bottom up). But there are a zillion things you can do with a law degree (and many books with titles like this) other than medicine, and as a prior poster indicated, there are a variety of ways the two degrees might ultimately be combined. I think you have a bigger problem -- you have picked up a fantastic credential and yet you are constantly whining on a bulletin board about how it is hurting you. More likely your attitude and mindset are what is keeping you in the state you are in.
Perhaps you should contact brotherbloat and form a support group. 🙄

Law2Doc, the unfortunate reality is that law is not the "ultimate flexible degree" that we're fed in law school. Those who decide to do something non-traditional with their JD face many obstacles. I'm experiencing this firsthand, and I'm also hearing it from the many alums from my law school I'm informational interviewing with who have a JD but are now in a variety of other fields, either JD-preferred or not.

I am whining about how it is hurting me, yes, but I am also whining b/c I'm annoyed by this fact. I've been on a lot of interviews, and every single time the interview ends with, "you're overqualified." Or, "you'll get bored and leave." No matter what, when employers see that JD, they think these things. It's not like I'm picking the job--the job picks you. I have little control over the fact that my JD is excluding me from many positions. Also, becase I'm not interested in perhaps more of the typical non-legal avenues for JDs, such as investment banking and consulting, I'm also having a harder time. An alum expalined to me the other month why employers are not very welcoming of the JD, and it made perfect sense to me. I'm trying to overcome it, but so far nothing's come through.

Also, with regard to what you said about the stress and long hours....I accept that those are a part of medicne, but I love medicine and sicence....so these negatives become less of an issue.....on the other hand, I hate law, so why would I put myself through stress and long hours for a job I have zero interest in?

In law school, I worked at firms during my summers....hated those. I just really can't see myself practicing law, I really can't. I don't have a litigator's mentality--I don't want to argue in court, or do legal research and write briefs and memos.....all that sounds horribly boring to me. On the other hand, transactional work doesn't sound very interesting either....I don't want to be looking at contracts and analyzing them, or drafting them, or advising clinets on the minutia of a regulation....all this sounds horribly boring as well. My strengths are not legal research and writing. I hate being stuck in a tiny room with tons of papers to go through. I much prefer a people-oriented environemnet, where I'm not chained to a desk job. I love running all over the place, walking from room to room, talking to people, working in a team, working in a cooperative--not an adversarial--environment. So these are some other reasons why law doesn't appeal to me.

I've been looking for a better fit job for months....it just takes time. Problem is, it's very discouraging, day after day, to keep at it.

 

[Law2Doc]

Law2Doc, the unfortunate reality is that law is not the "ultimate flexible degree" that we're fed in law school. Those who decide to do something non-traditional with their JD face many obstacles. I'm experiencing this firsthand, and I'm also hearing it from the many alums from my law school I'm informational interviewing with who have a JD but are now in a variety of other fields, either JD-preferred or not.

I am whining about how it is hurting me, yes, but I am also whining b/c I'm annoyed by this fact. I've been on a lot of interviews, and every single time the interview ends with, "you're overqualified." Or, "you'll get bored and leave." No matter what, when employers see that JD, they think these things. It's not like I'm picking the job--the job picks you. I have little control over the fact that my JD is excluding me from many positions. Also, becase I'm not interested in perhaps more of the typical non-legal avenues for JDs, such as investment banking and consulting, I'm also having a harder time. An alum expalined to me the other month why employers are not very welcoming of the JD, and it made perfect sense to me. I'm trying to overcome it, but so far nothing's come through.

Also, with regard to what you said about the stress and long hours....I accept that those are a part of medicne, but I love medicine and sicence....so these negatives become less of an issue.....on the other hand, I hate law, so why would I put myself through stress and long hours for a job I have zero interest in?

In law school, I worked at firms during my summers....hated those. I just really can't see myself practicing law, I really can't. I don't have a litigator's mentality--I don't want to argue in court, or do legal research and write briefs and memos.....all that sounds horribly boring to me. On the other hand, transactional work doesn't sound very interesting either....I don't want to be looking at contracts and analyzing them, or drafting them, or advising clinets on the minutia of a regulation....all this sounds horribly boring as well. My strengths are not legal research and writing. I hate being stuck in a tiny room with tons of papers to go through. I much prefer a people-oriented environemnet, where I'm not chained to a desk job. I love running all over the place, walking from room to room, talking to people, working in a team, working in a cooperative--not an adversarial--environment. So these are some other reasons why law doesn't appeal to me.

I've been looking for a better fit job for months....it just takes time. Problem is, it's very discouraging, day after day, to keep at it.

I seem to have the same issues with you that adcoms will -- you have a very negative attitude toward something you invested three years into but never tried. You hated law school, you hate having gotten your JD, you hate both litigation and transactional work (without having tried it - summer jobs don't count as you hardly get more than a cursory feel for the job), you hate the non-legal avenues you somehow think might be open to you (consulting and I-banking, you claim) -- you seem to claim to know all the answers and in every case the answer screws you over. Quite the martyr you are. Yet somehow you expect medicine to be different; constantly exciting, cooperative, non-adversarial, non-political. In fact you will find that a lot of medicine is very routine and "un-sexy", a lot of doctors, nurses and patients will be anything but cooperative, and, as in any profession, medicine has its share of administrative politics and jockying for position.
I have personally experienced several lawfirm jobs which involved fairly significant teamwork, human contact and running all over the place (not only within a given office but even to different parts of the country). There are lots of legitimate reasons why law may not be your dream job, but certainly the issues you have indicated are not things you couldn't find to your liking in law.
Truth of the matter is that you are going to have to give a really good reason why you did such a mis-step in going to law school, and why the schools should believe you now when you say that medicine is the right direction for you. "Hating law" (especially without ever having worked in the field) is not the answer that is going to help you (in an interview or frankly, in your current life). So I suggest you figure out a way to change your tack. Embrace your JD as a positive asset, albeit one you don't apparently plan to use, and move on. Best of luck.

 

[f_w]

"when you graduate, you'll be a professional. You'll be respected in the community. You'll have a great job and you can get manicures and pedicures every week if you want them." I thought this sounded great. It does sound great.

What great advice to base a career decision on. Wow.

It's a lot of stress, responsibility, long hours, law firm politics, and dealing with annoying anal type-A lawyer types,

I guess medicine is out then. In medicine you deal with:
- responsibility
- long hours
- office and hospital politics
- dealing with annoying anal type-A colleagues and administrators


I hate being stuck in a tiny room with tons of papers to go through. I much prefer a people-oriented environemnet, where I'm not chained to a desk job. I love running all over the place, walking from room to room, talking to people, working in a team,

Become a physical therapist. Sounds like the description for your dream job. The ones I know are happy, the training is shorter than medicine. And yes, it does pay more than $9/hour.

Believe me, medicine is too long of a training track to then find out that you don't like it either. Just wait for your hubby to finish residency and start spending his money. (Having too much time on your hands only sucks if you don't have money to burn. I know enough happy doctors wifes, they just re-decorate the 5 bdrm house q 6 months and plan parties for the weekends.)

 

[alison_in_oh]

Just wait for your hubby to finish residency and start spending his money. (Having too much time on your hands only sucks if you don't have money to burn. I know enough happy doctors wifes, they just re-decorate the 5 bdrm house q 6 months and plan parties for the weekends.)

Now that's just freakin' obnoxious. Ugh. Rubs me wrong in ALL kinds of ways. Ugh. I can't even begin to address how offensive this statement is to me, both personally and philosophically. Hm, this board does have the appropriate emoticon.

I'm sorry, but the entire concept of "money to burn" is so bloody inconceivable in a world where so many do without. 🙁

 

[Toofscum]

I agree with alison on that one. Why is it that tact so often goes out the window here on SDN? That was offensively obnoxious.

But the sad thing is, I can't tell you how many times I've heard this, from old men like f_w and female friends too! They think that just because you've married a doctor, as soon as he's out of residency, that you'll want to stay home eating bon-bons and shopping 24-7. My own MOTHER has even said such an offensive thing. Can anyone imagine someone saying this to a guy whose wife is a Dr.??????

🙁

 

[f_w]

I guess sarcasm and irony only work if the object understands it.

The thing with (some) doctors wives spending their day redecorating houses is a simple observation. Just this past saturday we had a nice dinner at the house of one of these couples. He is an interventional cardiologist and works day and night, she is an ex-respiratory therapist who spends her days with public service and redecorating. Works for them.

 

[OSURxgirl]

I guess what I'm confused about is....
a) how you can know for sure that law is awful when you haven't truly tried being employed in the profession,

and

b)how you can know medicine is the answer if you haven't worked in this field either?

 

[Toofscum]

The only jobs I have held since graduating from law school are medical (in a hospital, full-time for pay.) So that is one way I have experienced healthcare, and also I think it will help my case with adcoms when I can show them that a) I have never worked in law and b) I have spent my years post-law school working in a hospital environment in direct patient care (except for now, when I'm in retail.)

As for the practice of law, I ask you all, why spend time in a profession that you know you'll hate and will make you miserable? Can't people change career directions when they know something isn't right for them? I have a friend who got an MD--now she's a high school English teacher, never practiced medicine or went to a residency. I have another friend who got a BA in nursing; then immediately went to law school. Both of them knew that their previous fields were not a good fit. They didn't want to waste any more precious time or money figuring out otherwise, even though they didn't work a day in their fields. They did internships and whatever other practical experience was required in their educational programs like I did, and that was enough for them. How do people know on a first date that their date isn't the man of their dreams, that there's no chemistry? Do they have to marry the guy to figure this out? Sometimes you just know, without having to make a long-term committment to your date. I just knew that the law and I had no chemistry.

People change their minds when they know a career isn't right for them; sometimes you just KNOW. I trudged through three years of law school, hating every single minute of every single class, spent my two summers working at firms, shadowed countless lawyers, talked to probably 40 lawyer alums, all in the hopes that I'd find something about the law that interested me. No such luck. Do you think I wanted to "throw away" three years of hard work and a lot of money? Absolutely not. I tried my hardest to find a specialty in the law that suited me, but it was like forcing a round peg into a square hole. After enough forcing, you realize that there is just not a fit.

I think you guys are being quite harsh, self-rightous, and extremely unrealistic. Someone asked how can you know you hate law so much when you haven't even worked in it? Well, conversely, how can you know that you love medicine just by the typical pre-med volunteering, when you haven't "worked" in it? That's one reason why adcoms consider "clinical experience" to be so important--so you can tell as much as you can whether or not medicine is right for you, however, everyone knows that the clinical experience many pre-meds get is usually pretty negligible, and often done just to put something on the AMCAS form. But at the same time, adcoms let in pre-meds who just have the bare bones clinical experience, they don't expect anyone to "work" for pay in the healthcare field. My college roommate was accepted to med school after having spent two weeks shadowing at a podiatrist clinic. That was her entire clinical experience.

I ask you: how can a pre-med tell that medicine is right for him or her just by doing the often sub-standard and very pointless volunteering that most eager to please pre-meds do--doing paperwork in a hostpial, pushing patients around in an ER? How is this experience really going to tell them whether or not medicine is right for them? It usually can't. It can give them a small glimpse, but that's it. I doubt taking a urine cup to the lab is going to result in a life-changing epiphany about how medicine is now suddenly their life's calling when it wasn't five minutes before when they were making beds in the ER.

Just as I had a form of "clinical experience" in law school--full-time paid work in summers at firms with significant responsibility, all the other stuff I did above, etc. My "clinical experience" showed me that law is absolutely not right for me. I've heard from a couple of pre-meds whose clinical experience showed them that medicine was NOT right for them say that their pre-med advisors praised the usefulness of their clinical experience, saying, "well, now you know 100% that medicine is not for you." And these same pre-meds also feel that they saved themselves a lot of mental anguish, time, and money by doing their clinical experiences, to figure out that med school is not for them after all, because they hate the sterility of the hospital environment, or they don't like the sight of blood, or they don't like sick people, etc. Like me (in law), they've invested a signficiant amount of time into being pre-med--taking the science classes, the MCAT, moulding their entire college experience up until that point around being pre-med, etc. By the same reasoning, I should be able to also say that law is not for me. But somehow, most people don't react to that fact by saying, "Congratulations! Now you know 100% that law is not for you. Now you can let that go, with the peace of mind knowing that you've fully explored that avenue." This has always puzzled me.

 

[f_w]

> So that is one way I have experienced healthcare, and also I think it
> will help my case with adcoms when I can show them that a) I have
> never worked in law and b) I have spent my years post-law school
> working in a hospital environment in direct patient care (except for
> now, when I'm in retail.)

Having never worked in law will count against you. Having worked successfully in law would count for you.

In medicine you will find plenty of ex-engineers, ex-computer guys and some ex-journalists. Everyone I have met who had a career before medicine had exactly that: a career before medicine.

 

[Toofscum]

Like I said above, I don't have to "marry" law to know that there is no chemistry. Adcoms will understand this when I explain that as soon as I knew in law school that the law was not for me but that medicine was my new path, I _wasted no time_ practicing law, and instead immediately got a job in the hosptial upon graduation and started my post-bacc. Once I knew in my third year of law school that I wanted to explore medicine as my new calling, I didn't want to deviate from that path to pursue something I had no passion for.

 

[Law2Doc]

Like I said above, I don't have to "marry" law to know that there is no chemistry. Adcoms will understand this when I explain that as soon as I knew in law school that the law was not for me but that medicine was my new path, I _wasted no time_ practicing law, and instead immediately got a job in the hosptial upon graduation and started my post-bacc. Once I knew in my third year of law school that I wanted to explore medicine as my new calling, I didn't want to deviate from that path to pursue something I had no passion for.

No - you previously said you hated every minute of law school and knew from first year of law school classes and each year's summer jobs that you hated it. Thus you wasted three years of law school's worth of time. As f_w said, if you had worked in law, and given it a chance, you would show up as a career changing applicant. I can tell you from personal experience that adcoms do not perceive this negatively -- there is a lot of experience and skillsets other professionals can bring to the table. But because you never did work in another field and set your sights on med school right from law school you come off as someone jumping from school to school - hence you might get pegged as flighty, a professional student, not well thought out, etc. That makes your dedication to medicine suspect, and makes adcoms think you are just as likely to go through med school and become an English teacher like the friend you cited previously. All I can say is if you are in a bad situation now, don't blame law -- it didn't put you there and probably gave you an avenue out.

 

[gwb]

I think you guys are being quite harsh, self-rightous, and extremely unrealistic. QUOTE]

i think you're being defensive, self-righteous, and unrealistic. several people have given you quite sound and completely reasonable advice (especially law2doc and fw) about why you may give adcom's the impression that your career choices have been flighty or superficial. i don't think they and other posters were trying to be critical or attack you in some nasty personal way; i think they were sincerely trying to offer you some insight as to why you are having difficulty achieving admisison to med school. i don't think it's your law degree or your mcat score that is necessarily hindering you, as you seem to believe.

as i've said before, you're clearly an intelligent person but you seem to lack the maturity to accept constructive criticism without feeling like people are trying to tear you down. there are plenty of people who have decided to switch careers and pursue medicine (i can think of several lawyers, dancers, professional athletes from my own class) but all of these people had invested considerable time in their alternate careers before making the switch. i agree that the time they spent developing other skills and experiencing the "real world" most definitely made a positive impression on their application. if you truly hated law school from day 1, you should have dropped out and pursued your dream from the get-go. this would have demonstrated true passion for the field.

just my opinion, but you will probably think i'm being harsh.

 

[Toofscum]

Well all I can say is that had I jumped ship and quit law school in the first year, adcoms would have perceived that as someone who can't commit to something and follow through. I have been told by adcoms and pre-med advisors that that would have been the worst thing I could do--b/c it would show that I have no follow through and couldn't "handle" a rigourous academic program.

I did hate law from the first day. But it wasn't until my 3L year that I realized that medicine was my new path. Before that I was doing some serious soul-searching with no definite ideas about what career was the best fit. Once I realized as a 3L that medicine was right for me, I started taking science classes and volunteered.

I didn't want to work for a couple of years in law and just delay doing the post-bacc and getting started. I was married, and ready to "start my life," and really wanted to dive in and not wait a couple more years to get experience in a career that I had no interest in. Taking the bar exam, searching for a legal job, and getting aclimated in that job all take up a tremendous amount of mental energy. It didn't make any sense to me to expend this energy, when I had zero interest in the subject matter, and wanted to spend my time instead on biology and physics. Why would anyone advise someone to work in a field they have no interest for? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

I realize adcoms may think I'm flighty and a professional student, but that's the way the cookie has crumbled. There's nothing I can do about that now. I did the post-bacc first, then the hospital work, and now am looking for something relatively decent paying as my interim job so I can continue taking post-bacc classes at night while re-studying for the MCAT and reapplying next year. I really don't think all of this sounds that unreasonable. I'm doing the best I can with what's available to me at this point. The fact of having a JD on your resume but applying to non-legal jobs is a very real problem, and I'm working with a career counselor to try to work through it by re-working my resume. Many, many people have this same problem. I've heard it from the countless non-practicing law school alums I've contacted over the past few months. All of them said that their JD was a barrier they had to get employers to overcome when searching for non-legal jobs, whether or not they had practiced law already. I'm just burned out on the job search after so many months of trying to leap over this barrier.

I am hoping to offset the profesional student thing by the fact that the only paying full-time jobs I've held since graduation are in the healthcare field. I'm hoping to show them that while I made a very un-thought out mistake as a directionless 22 year old college senior by choosing law school, when I had never even met a real lawyer up close or knew the first thing about what law entailed, now, with more insight and world experience, at age 25 I have not repeated my directionlessness twice, by researching the medical field to the best of my abilities, by doing all sorts of volunteering, shadowing, research, and paid hospital work, and now have come to a well-thought out conclusion that medicine is definitely the right fit for me. People make mistakes; if adcoms can't see that I realize this and have amended my ways, by being now much more thorough in my research on this new profession, then I don't know what to think.

 

[Law2Doc]

I didn't want to work for a couple of years in law and just delay doing the post-bacc and getting started. I was married, and ready to "start my life," and really wanted to dive in and not wait a couple more years to get experience in a career that I had no interest in. Taking the bar exam, searching for a legal job, and getting aclimated in that job all take up a tremendous amount of mental energy. It didn't make any sense to me to expend this energy, when I had zero interest in the subject matter, and wanted to spend my time instead on biology and physics.

This whole med school application process is about showing you have a ton of "mental energy", can excell at things, and can accomplish things even if it wasn't your primary interest. That's why true career changers tend to do relatively well -- they proved themselves in one area, but for a variety of reasons are moving to the medical arena having already shown they can tackle another chalenging discipline, often with significant carry-over skills. The rush to "start your life" and "dive in" as a postbac student instead of working at a field you just spent three long years training for has to give people pause. You may (hopefully) be able to overcome it, but just be aware that it was your own poor decisions, not your JD that is the culprit. The JD is a degree that you could have made work for you, and even actually help you get into med school (or at least finance it), rather than the horrible hurdle you have made it into in your rushing to distance yourself from it. But good luck to you.

 

[Cuteasaurus]

I'm sorry...I'm still confused. There are plenty of people with JDs working in health policy. Why does your JD have to be a burden to doing what you want to do? If you have to be an MD to do the kind of healthcare work you want, then so be it. But, in the meantime your JD could be used to help you get a job in a healthcare setting.

 

[Toofscum]

Sure, I'd love to get a job in health care policy. But I'm in a city where such jobs are not plentiful (and will be here awhile for hubby's residency.) Competition for jobs is fierce. I'm just hoping to find something health-related soon.

 

[Mom2five]

I know you've said you don't have kids but I wasn't clear if you plan to in the future? I think it's great you have a professional degree...makes me even a little jealous. I just wondered if you have thought about the whole Mom/going to med school path? It seems like it would be such a long commitment (med school) and if you want kids, who will take care of them? I just didn't know if you've thought about all of that?

I've always wanted to go to law school but we sent husband to med school since he had a degree (I'm currently a senior...working to graduate sometime in the next 20 years...just kidding...hopefully!)

Women can have it all...just not necessarily ALL at the same time. It is such a hard balance parenting/career and it is hard for couples that both are in Med field. It can be done...I was just wondering if it was worth it for you?

I hope this is coming across in the right "tone"...I feel no ill towards you and say this with NO opinions on what you should do...just a little concern that down the road, who knows, you could decide that you LOVE being a Mom and then regret all your education.

 

[beancounter]

"you could decide that you LOVE being a Mom and then regret all your education." - Mom2Five

The above quote is an interesting comment. Of all the mothers I know, I don't know one who regrets her education. There may some out there, but I have yet to meet them. However, I know of 2 mothers who regret not advancing in their educational pursuits. My sister (a mom) loathes paying her student loans, but without them she wouldn't be chairperson of the life sciences department at a univ. I don't think that "loving being a mom" correlates with any specific educational background. Yes, I believe it would be more challenging to be a medical student/resident mom than a mom who chooses a less time-consuming career. However, the physician moms I am friends with, love both being a mom and love their career (as an aside: the above mentioned M.D. mothers all work part-time).

I didn't mean to hijack this thread, just wanted to point out that whatever path Toffscum chooses to take, I don't think it will affect her "love" of being a mother.

 

[Mom2five]

"you could decide that you LOVE being a Mom and then regret all your education." - Mom2Five

The above quote is an interesting comment. Of all the mothers I know, I don't know one who regrets her education. There may some out there, but I have yet to meet them. However, I know of 2 mothers who regret not advancing in their educational pursuits. My sister (a mom) loathes paying her student loans, but without them she wouldn't be chairperson of the life sciences department at a univ. I don't think that "loving being a mom" correlates with any specific educational background. Yes, I believe it would be more challenging to be a medical student/resident mom than a mom who chooses a less time-consuming career. However, the physician moms I am friends with, love both being a mom and love their career (as an aside: the above mentioned M.D. mothers all work part-time).

I didn't mean to hijack this thread, just wanted to point out that whatever path Toffscum chooses to take, I don't think it will affect her "love" of being a mother.

I was more addressing the fact that she went to law school and hated it and hates the fact that she "wasted" that education. I was addressing her...not getting into a Mom/working fight. If Toofscum decided after going to Medical School that she wanted to stay home with the kids, then yes it is very possible she would regret all the hard work she put herself thru. It was more a "thought" for her..."had she thought about her parenting plans etc"...it wasn't what you are saying. I am not a proponent of staying home or working...every individual situation deserves to be looked at.

 

[AmazonLass]

Can anyone imagine someone saying this to a guy whose wife is a Dr.??????

🙁

They have said that to my husband. They nudge and wink about him marrying a future doctor. People also wonder why he married someone who will (eventually) earn less than him. Good thing he's got the cajones not to care too much about other people's negative opinions.

As for new hobbies, you may like getting certified in Yoga or any fitness class instruction (try www.afaa.com). I teach an early morning boot camp fitness class and people always come up to me after class to chat.

I don't remember who mentioned yoga being full of 40+ women (and someone mentioned they make the best mentors and I whole-heartily agree), but you may find that a martial arts class has a more diverse age group while still being a good way to relieve stress. If you're lucky enough to have a capoeira group in your area (Brazilian martial art), it tends to be just as hard physically and very social at the same time.