What do you think of this article "Dubious Aspects of Osteopathy"?

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tarantismnow said:
Psychiatrists are all quacks!!! Can you belive that they use psychotropics to treat illnesses with little to no knowledge or scientific evidence as to how they work? (Hint: Tone = Sarcasm)

I'm not concerned that we don't the mechanism of action of a treatment modality. We may not know WHY lithium works, but we know that it DOES work. There are mounds of research that show that lithium works (you chose lithium so i'm using that as an example). Show me the literature the shows the efficacy of OMT for anything other than musculoskeletal problems. Show me the research supporting cranial therapy's effectiveness in treating ANYTHING.

Again, my argument against OMT isn't that we don't know how it works, rather my issue is that there is little to no research showing that it works at all (besides one or two papers showing that it's effective for LBP, which isn't surprising given that OMT used for musculoskeletal pain is really just Physical Therapy is diguise).

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Has anyone read the article from the professors at UNECOM? If so, what do you think of their research? Interesting that professors from an otheopathic school break rank. It would also be interesting to know how the AOA responded to this research.

http://faculty.une.edu/com/shartman/sram.pdf
 
Nate said:
In fact our Neuro professor, Dr. White wrote the USMLE prep book “Road Map: Neuroscience”, he is awesome.
Does he still say "NOW" before every sentence? :D
He is great though.
 
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BACMEDIC said:
Has anyone read the article from the professors at UNECOM? If so, what do you think of their research? Interesting that professors from an otheopathic school break rank. It would also be interesting to know how the AOA responded to this research.

http://faculty.une.edu/com/shartman/sram.pdf

Thanks for posting this. Here's the conclusion from this paper (again, from professors at a DO school):

CONCLUSION:

There is little science in any aspect of cranial osteopathy:

(1) there is no scientific support for major elements of the PRMl
(2) the only publication purporting to show diagnositc reliability with sufficient detail to permit evaluation is deeply flawed and stands alone against 5 other reports that show reliabilities of essentially zero; and
(3) there is no scientific evidence of treatment efficacy.

We, as a profession, need to start evaluating OMT just as we're trained to evaluate the efficacy of any other treatment: evidence-based medicine. Most of what we're taught in our OMT classes is pure hocus-pocus, and it makes us a laughing stock. Perhaps someday the 90 year old dinasours that run the AOA (and the D.O. schools) will step aside and allow for the next generation of D.O.s to step in and put an end to this madness.
 
The Bottom Line

I believe that the American Osteopathic Association is acting improperly by exaggerating the value of manipulative therapy and by failing to denounce cranial therapy. If you wish to select an osteopathic physician as your primary-care provider, your best bet is to seek one who: (a) has undergone residency training at a medical hospital; (b) does not assert that osteopaths have a unique philosophy or that manipulation offers general health benefits; (c) either does not use manipulation or uses it primarily to treat back pain; and (d) does not practice cranial therapy.

This is his "bottom line." I find nothing at all objectionable about it.
 
Teufelhunden said:
We, as a profession, need to start evaluating OMT just as we're trained to evaluate the efficacy of any other treatment: evidence-based medicine. Most of what we're taught in our OMT classes is pure hocus-pocus, and it makes us a laughing stock. Perhaps someday the 90 year old dinasours that run the AOA (and the D.O. schools) will step aside and allow for the next generation of D.O.s to step in and put an end to this madness.

More fundamental questions come first. Before you begin labeling what is "evidence-based" you need an evidence base. That means that you need to begin with a population-based approach to defining what conditions and diagnoses are amendable to OMT, what factors influence response to treatment, what is the role of placebo, expectancy, and natural history in treating somatic dysfunction, etc before jumping into clinical trials.

Everyone wants to skip to clinical trials, but clinical trials is where scientific inquiry culminates not where it begins. Before a clinical trial can give a meaningful answer about a treatment, there needs to be quite a bit already known and understood about the basic science and biological mechanisms behind the treatment. Jumping to clinical trials without doing more fundamental science is inefficient and potentially unrewarding. To date, the clinical trials in manual medicine have not resulted in any meaningful culmination of an evidence base because of methodological problems and difficult to interpret results given a lack of basic science. Imagine if chemotherapy trials were done this way...

We need to better characterize what it OMT is trying to treat, what are its "active ingreedients" and who potentially benefits the most from it, under what conditions, and what doses and frequencies.

J Am Osteopath Assoc. 2005 Dec;105(12):537-44. Related Articles, Links


Osteopathic manipulative treatment of somatic dysfunction among patients in the family practice clinic setting: a retrospective analysis.

Licciardone JC, Nelson KE, Glonek T, Sleszynski SL, Cruser A.

Please address correspondence to John C. Licciardone, MBA, University of North Texas Health Science Center at Fort Worth-Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine, 3500 Camp Bowie Blvd, Fort Worth, TX 76107-2644. [email protected].

CONTEXT: Relatively little has been published about contemporary use of osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT) in family practice. OBJECTIVE: To provide an "epidemiology" of somatic dysfunction, assessing prevalence and severity of somatic dysfunction encountered in the family practice setting, also characterizing physician use of OMT. Design: Retrospective analysis of Outpatient Osteopathic SOAP Note Form data collected in 1998 and 1999 by 20 osteopathic medical trainee-investigators under the supervision of seven site-based osteopathic physicians. SETTING: Three university-based, osteopathic family practice clinics. RESULTS: The authors analyzed records for 1331 patient encounters and 424 adult patients. The mean (SD) age of patients was 56.9 years (16.2 years), and 71% were women. The median number of days between repeat encounters was 29 days. Somatic dysfunction was diagnosed in 418 (31%) patient encounters, affecting a total of 1199 anatomic regions (2.9+/-1.2 anatomic regions per patient). Investigators used OMT in 335 (25%) patient encounters to treat a total of 952 anatomic regions (2.8+/-1.2 anatomic regions per patient). For women, the odds ratio for receiving OMT was 1.4 (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.0-2.2); for patients using analgesics, anti-inflammatory agents, or muscle relaxants, the odds ratio was 2.2 (95% CI, 1.2-4.1). Immediately after OMT, investigators reported that patients' somatic dysfunction resolved or improved in a total of 747 (96%) anatomic regions and remained unchanged in 32 (4%) anatomic regions (P<.001). The authors used cluster analysis to classify anatomic regions by prevalence and severity of somatic dysfunction. CONCLUSION: Somatic dysfunction was diagnosed in almost one-third of patient encounters. In one-quarter of patient encounters, investigators used OMT.

J Am Osteopath Assoc. 2002 Oct;102(10):527-32, 537-40. Related Articles, Links


Conditions and diagnoses for which osteopathic primary care physicians and specialists use osteopathic manipulative treatment.

Johnson SM, Kurtz ME.

Department of Family and Community Medicine at the Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine in East Lansing, USA.

Data presented in this study were gathered in 1998 through a national mail survey of 3000 randomly selected osteopathic physicians. Of 979 (33.4%) questionnaires returned, 955 (97.5%) were usable for analysis. The use of osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT) was determined for primary care physicians and specialists. Osteopathic manipulative treatment specialists and family physicians provided OMT significantly more frequently than other primary care physicians and non-primary care specialists. More than 50% of respondents (513) administered OMT on less than 5% of their patients. Nevertheless, it should be noted that physicians from 40 of 46 specialties and subspecialties represented in the survey (678, 71%) identified an average of 3.3 conditions and diagnoses per physician that were managed with OMT. The conditions and diagnoses for which OMT is used have been enumerated and codified. More than 50% of conditions (1135) for which respondents treated patients with OMT related to the musculoskeletal system, but extensive overlap among other body systems and body regions attests to the continued incorporation of OMT into holistic patient care by a broad range of osteopathic physicians.


J Am Osteopath Assoc. 2002 Jan;102(1):13-20. Related Articles, Links


Patient satisfaction and clinical outcomes associated with osteopathic manipulative treatment.

Licciardone J, Gamber R, Cardarelli K.

Department of Family Medicine, University of North Texas Health Science Center, Fort Worth 76107, USA. [email protected]

A patient survey was used to measure and explain patient satisfaction and clinical outcomes associated with osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT). Participating in the survey were 459 people who attended an ambulatory OMT specialty clinic from March 1998 through September 1998 and who had received OMT there at least twice previously. Standardized patient satisfaction scores were greatest for overall performance (0.61 +/- 0.29) and interpersonal manner (0.61 +/- 0.24). Satisfaction with finances (0.11 +/- 0.31) was significantly lower than for all other global dimensions of care (P < .001). Subjects perceived OMT to be highly efficacious (0.74 +/- 0.34) and reported significant relief from pain or discomfort (P < .001) and improvement in mobility (P < .001). Of all the respondents, 8.6% attributed an adverse reaction to OMT. Perception of OMT efficacy was significantly associated with all dimensions of patient satisfaction (P values ranged from less than .001 to .003). Relief from pain or discomfort was significantly associated with overall satisfaction (P < .001). Females had greater reduction in pain or discomfort than males (P = .001). Respondents perceived significant community shortages of OMT services through primary care (-0.45 +/- 0.50; P < .001) and specialty (-0.35 +/- 0.54; P < .001) physicians, and reported significant dissatisfaction with insurance coverage for OMT services (-0.09 +/- 0.57; P = .001). These findings suggest the need for greater access to OMT services.


Quality of life in referred patients presenting to a specialty clinic for osteopathic manipulative treatment.

Licciardone JC, Gamber RG, Russo DP.

Department of Family Medicine, Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine, University of North Texas Health Science Center at Fort Worth, 76107-2644, USA. [email protected]

Previous research has found that patients of osteopathic physicians tend to report poorer general health perceptions than persons in the general population or than patients of allopathic physicians. Quality of life and level of healthcare satisfaction in patients referred to a specialty clinic for osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT) at a college of osteopathic medicine were measured in 1997. Data from the Medical Outcomes Study 36-Item Short Form (SF-36) were used to compute standardized scores in the following eight health scales: physical functioning, role limitations because of physical problems, bodily pain, general health perceptions, vitality, social functioning, role limitations because of emotional problems, and mental health. There were 185 patients who returned the survey (mean response rate, 90%), including 22 new and 163 established patients. Patients reported poorer health than the general population on all eight scales (P < .001). Patients frequently reported poorer quality of life than referents with hypertension, congestive heart failure, type 2 diabetes mellitus, recent acute myocardial infarction, or clinical depression. More than 97% of established patients were satisfied or very satisfied with the healthcare received at the clinic. This study suggests that referred patients presenting to osteopathic physicians for OMT may have poorer quality of life than is generally recognized when relying only on traditional diagnostic approaches. Early detection and treatment of musculoskeletal conditions may be important factors in preventing chronicity and its impact on quality of life.
 
Teufelhunden said:
I agree 100%. Most of what jammed down our throats during my 1st two years was complete snake oil -- pure crap.

It really pisses me off that for some reason the whacko, manipulation-will-save-the-world crowd is so unwilling to accept scientific scrutiny.

How odd...one minute I'm at a mandatory lecture on the importance of evidenced-based medicine, and the next I have some weirdo wearing mocasins telling me to feel for the cranial impulse.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that there is a place for some OMM...but crap like cranial...this is the stuff that makes us the subject of criticism. We as the next generation of osteopathic physicians need to decide to embrace evidenced-based medicine...and that applies to OMM.

I don't see why OMM gets a free ride. They're always telling us how OMM is like any drug, i.e. you have to give the appropriate medication, the appropriate dose, etc. So, if its just like a drug, then how come its not scrutinized like drugs are.

Give me a break.

Sore subject.

I start a 2-week OMM rotation tomorrow.

Woo Hoo!

Well Said
 
scary stuff.
 
Just had to take COMLEX Level III -- I think my test was revenge for bashing cranial on this thread - they loaded up my test with cranial questions. The NBOME must monitor this site --- it's a conspiracy!
 
Changing the subject for a moment. The first DO school I interview at was Kirksville, MO. Driving through the town you can see A. T. Still's old office, burial site, old psych hospital, and of course the first O school. Yeah, it was a little scary. The statue and the wall painting of him... What MD is glorified to such heights of enlightenment? But, beyond that KCOM is an awesome school, just too far away for me.
 
Teufelhunden said:
Just had to take COMLEX Level III -- I think my test was revenge for bashing cranial on this thread - they loaded up my test with cranial questions. The NBOME must monitor this site --- it's a conspiracy!
:laugh: :laugh:

Big Brother is listening. :laugh:
 
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Well, since he was an MD, he was!
that's funny because, for a group that despises MD's so much (after all, they never look at a pt as a person...just a bunch of unrelated symptoms...) they ALWAYS say AT Still MD, DO...as if the MD degree adds credibility to his status as our founding father.
 
ajanedo said:
Changing the subject for a moment. The first DO school I interview at was Kirksville, MO. Driving through the town you can see A. T. Still's old office, burial site, old psych hospital, and of course the first O school. Yeah, it was a little scary. The statue and the wall painting of him... What MD is glorified to such heights of enlightenment? But, beyond that KCOM is an awesome school, just too far away for me.

Ironically, I made the exact same assessment of the school.

They aren't all like that.
 
We need more research in the field but there is some decent studies that have been done. I am tired of people stating that "there is no research". It may not be overwhelming research but don't insult the efforts of our mentors and teachers that have put forth the studies they have worked hard to complete (especially given the difficulty in attaining funding). Also, lets not forget the invaluable field of physical therapy, which has derived and expanded on many techniques of Osteopathy.

I am sorry to break the whole "evidence based theme" here but you know what? It is not dangerous (no where near the potential danger that pharmacological therapy has). It has been around for a long time and over the years has made people feel better (I am sorry but it has to be good for something to have survived this long). It has made me feel better. So while we wait for that all impresive study......I will consider the risks versus benefits (which are favorable) and look on my profession with pride while treating my patients.

Furthermore, lets focus on pushing the research ahead, supporting our profession and looking at other topics such as the explosion of schools, which pose a different danger to our profession.

Justin Markow, DO
KCOM-Class of 2006
 
Stephen Barret is exactly right.

Instead of ignoring the truth, why dont you guys fight for reforming your curriculum. YOu are spending thousands of dollars to learn snake oil therapies.

And before the haters come out, let me just say that MD programs do the same kind of nonsense by force feeding us this "complementary/alternative medicine" classes. Its a bunch of BS
 
jhug said:
that's funny because, for a group that despises MD's so much (after all, they never look at a pt as a person...just a bunch of unrelated symptoms...) they ALWAYS say AT Still MD, DO...as if the MD degree adds credibility to his status as our founding father.

It was a joke, who cares really? I find it disturbing that you feel DOs as a group despises MDs, I feel nothing but respect for all physicians and colleagues and I certainly don't judge people by letters, do you? I ask in all seriousness because I wonder if the mentality is different in other parts of the country. I have said over and over the holistic crap is nonsense, this is an individual philosophy, and the only difference in the two degrees is political (discounting the added course in OMM which is really no big deal). This political difference is important though; why not have two governing bodies influencing decisions over the medical profession? No one group should have a monopoly over policy in something as important as human life. We are all working towards the same goal in the end, helping the patient the best way we know how.
 
MacGyver said:
Stephen Barret is exactly right.

Instead of ignoring the truth, why dont you guys fight for reforming your curriculum. YOu are spending thousands of dollars to learn snake oil therapies.

And before the haters come out, let me just say that MD programs do the same kind of nonsense by force feeding us this "complementary/alternative medicine" classes. Its a bunch of BS

I will assume you are not trolling and bite. I will also not waste too much of my energy.

because most of us believe OMM has at the least some value and place in medicine
because it doesn't take much effort to learn above all of the other classes and it feels so good, why not do it on each other and our families?
because it tradition

Have you had OMM or know about its conecpts on which you have based your opinion?
 
Nate said:
It was a joke, who cares really? I find it disturbing that you feel DOs as a group despises MDs, I feel nothing but respect for all physicians and colleagues and I certainly don't judge people by letters, do you? I ask in all seriousness because I wonder if the mentality is different in other parts of the country. I have said over and over the holistic crap is nonsense, this is an individual philosophy, and the only difference in the two degrees is political (discounting the added course in OMM which is really no big deal). This political difference is important though; why not have two governing bodies influencing decisions over the medical profession? No one group should have a monopoly over policy in something as important as human life. We are all working towards the same goal in the end, helping the patient the best way we know how.
I agree with most of that, though I challenge the "one governing body would hurt us" assumption. We only have "one" federal government, and it's in charge of..well, basically everything. The 'monopoly' argument suggests that one can do it better than the other...that's not a route I'd go down. We're not competing with MDs for 'patient business,' we're working with them to accomplish the same goals.
 
MacGyver said:
Instead of ignoring the truth, why dont you guys fight for reforming your curriculum. YOu are spending thousands of dollars to learn snake oil therapies.

Careful or I will put a D.O. hex on you. All I have to do is think about your face while holding a disarticulated skull.

Doo dee doo doo
 
MacGyver said:
Stephen Barret is exactly right.

Instead of ignoring the truth, why dont you guys fight for reforming your curriculum. YOu are spending thousands of dollars to learn snake oil therapies.

And before the haters come out, let me just say that MD programs do the same kind of nonsense by force feeding us this "complementary/alternative medicine" classes. Its a bunch of BS

Typically pre-med mentality.

I bet you don't think saw palmetto helps with BPH or St. John's Wort with depression, either.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Typically pre-med mentality.

I bet you don't think saw palmetto helps with BPH or St. John's Wort with depression, either.

If you were being sarcastic, then ignore the following:

Effectiveness of St John's Wort in Major Depression

A Randomized Controlled Trial

Richard C. Shelton, MD; Martin B. Keller, MD; Alan Gelenberg, MD; David L. Dunner, MD; Robert Hirschfeld, MD; Michael E. Thase, MD; James Russell, MD; R. Bruce Lydiard, MD,PhD; Paul Crits-Christoph, PhD; Robert Gallop, PhD; Linda Todd; David Hellerstein, MD; Paul Goodnick, MD; Gabor Keitner, MD; Stephen M. Stahl, MD; Uriel Halbreich, MD

JAMA. 2001;285:1978-1986.

ABSTRACT


Context Extracts of St John's wort are widely used to treat depression. Although more than 2 dozen clinical trials have been conducted with St John's wort, most have significant flaws in design and do not enable meaningful interpretation.

Objective To compare the efficacy and safety of a standardized extract of St John's wort with placebo in outpatients with major depression.

Design and Setting Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial conducted between November 1998 and January 2000 in 11 academic medical centers in the United States.

Participants Two hundred adult outpatients (mean age, 42.4 years; 67.0% female; 85.9% white) diagnosed as having major depression and having a baseline Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) score of at least 20.

Intervention Participants completed a 1-week, single-blind run-in of placebo, then were randomly assigned to receive either St John's wort extract (n = 98; 900 mg/d for 4 weeks, increased to 1200 mg/d in the absence of an adequate response thereafter) or placebo (n = 102) for 8 weeks.

Main Outcome Measures The primary outcome measure was rate of change on the HAM-D over the treatment period. Secondary measures included the Beck Depression Inventory (BDI), Hamilton Rating Scale for Anxiety (HAM-A), the Global Assessment of Function (GAF) scale, and the Clinical Global Impression–Severity and –Improvement scales (CGI-S and CGI-I).

Results The random coefficient analyses for the HAM-D, HAM-A, CGI-S, and CGI-I all showed significant effects for time but not for treatment or time-by-treatment interaction (for HAM-D scores, P<.001, P = .16, and P = .58, respectively). Analysis of covariance showed nonsignificant effects for BDI and GAF scores. The proportion of participants achieving an a priori definition of response did not differ between groups. The number reaching remission of illness was significantly higher with St John's wort than with placebo (P = .02), but the rates were very low in the full intention-to-treat analysis (14/98 [14.3%] vs 5/102 [4.9%], respectively). St John's wort was safe and well tolerated. Headache was the only adverse event that occurred with greater frequency with St John's wort than placebo (39/95 [41%] vs 25/100 [25%], respectively).

Conclusion In this study, St John's wort was not effective for treatment of major depression.

-------------------------
Abstract hasn't been posted yet on PubMed, but...


Saw palmetto ineffective for benign prostatic hyperplasia.

J Fam Pract. 2006 May;55(5):378. No abstract available.
PMID: 16722007 [PubMed - in process]
 
Red Beard said:
If you were being sarcastic, then ignore the following:



-------------------------
Abstract hasn't been posted yet on PubMed, but...


Conclusion In this study, St John's wort was not effective for treatment of major depression.


For major depression, sure, but studies have shown favorable results with mild to moderate depression.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/330/7500/E350
 
Red Beard said:
If you were being sarcastic, then ignore the following:



-------------------------
Abstract hasn't been posted yet on PubMed, but...

as658 said:
Conclusion In this study, St John's wort was not effective for treatment of major depression.


For major depression, sure, but studies have shown favorable results with mild to moderate depression.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/330/7500/E350

I didn't say treat, I said help.

It's not necessary to "disprove" everything people say with studies.
 
If something helps, doesn't that make it a treatment?

Posting studies isn't tool-ish; it's useful to those of us who want to practice evidence-based medicine.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
I didn't say treat, I said help.

Posting studies shows what a tool you are.

Studies of your posts show what a tool YOU are.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
I didn't say treat, I said help.

Posting studies shows what a tool you are.
Hey OSU,
I think my post may have been confusing. Anyway, I posted a link arguing St' John's Wort was helpful. The part with the "conclusion..." was from the previous poster and was what I was responding to. I had pasted that incorrectly. In short, many studies do show it is helpful for mild to moderate depression.
 
Highway said:
Studies of your posts show what a tool YOU are.

Can we kill this thread now? Its going nowhere fast.
 
as658 said:
Hey OSU,
I think my post may have been confusing. Anyway, I posted a link arguing St' John's Wort was helpful. The part with the "conclusion..." was from the previous poster and was what I was responding to. I had pasted that incorrectly. In short, many studies do show it is helpful for mild to moderate depression.

10-4
 
In the past hour I skimmed through this thread and played some online poker so please excuse me for any repeated ideas, etc....but here are my thoughts/questions:

First, I feel as if this profession, or the future of this profession...judging only from SDN posts...is going in the direction of MD/DO amalgamation. Please forgive me if this post takes a tangent from this thread, but for all those posting who believe that OMM is a waste of time, how do DOs differ from MDs? If there is no difference, why did you come to DO school? To be honest, it seems like a great deal of the posters (aka the OMM detractors) who like to get rid of the DO profession and just have one medical profession...a better question might be: for those who believe OMM is crap and that DO philosophy is somewhat universal for MDs and DOs, why do you want to be in this profession? Why do you break the legs of the profession...or better yet, we are too smart to break our own legs, what do you think the legs of this profession are that keep it seperate from MDs?

Second, the burden of proof has been brought up multiple times in this thread and the response has been that it is the claimant's responsibility. I cannot accept that response. I believe as DOs and DOs-to-be, it is our responsibility to prove OMM. If you are a DO and think it is crap, then do the profession a favor and disprove it experimentally. If you are a DO and believe in OMM, then do the profession a favor and show that it works.

You see as long as we are divided between OMM, our profession will not evolve as quickly.

I would like to take the road that makes the DO shine and to be frank, shows the benefits of OMM such that insurance rates will change to make it a more feasible option.

Sometimes when you keep typing, things stop making sense; I hope this post can be understood.
 
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