What happens if a professor writes me a negative recommendation letter and I use it?

[mrh125]

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Is that grounds for rejection? I have one professor who is an absolute pragmatic genius, who gave me an A+ in his class and could definitely write the strongest letter ever for me if he wanted. After he submitted mine I made the mistake of asking him if I could see the recommendation letter and he flipped and told me "if you don't trust your recommender you shouldn't ask" and then gave me a diatribe about how when he writes recommendation letters it's hard for him not to be extremely negative about students. Obviously I shouldn't have asked, but this makes me wonder, what happens if you make the mistake of choosing a recommendation letter that is negative about you? Recommendation letters are confidential so you can't see their content, so it's basically guessing and trust. If medical schools get a negative recommendation letter about a student is that grounds for rejection?

I'm probably not going to use this dudes recommendation letter for this reason which is a shame because he's the kind of guy who may have written the most glowing positive and unique tell recommendation letter ever for students and always used to hang out and talk to me after class about stuff that went over most people's heads.

 

[Pacna]

You should not have asked to see it. It's understood that it's supposed to be confidential. I would only ever look at a letter if it was offered, and then only provide feedback if it was invited.

Also, if he states that he writes negative letters, I would 100% not use his letter. Even if he told you that yours was positive, I wouldn't use it. It's incredibly rude for a prof to agree to write a letter and then write a negative one. I would not trust someone like that. Yes, an ADCOM would likely look extremely poorly at such a candidate.

Do not use this letter.

 

[SPQR MD]

Always remember you can send your letter to your premedical adviser and have them read it. They can keep the content of the letter confidential and tell you whether the letter actually reflects positively upon you.

 

[Pacna]

Always remember you can send your letter to your premedical adviser and have them read it. They can keep the content of the letter confidential and tell you whether the letter actually reflects positively upon you.

Whoa. You can? I didn't know that.

 

[mrh125]

Always remember you can send your letter to your premedical adviser and have them read it. They can keep the content of the letter confidential and tell you whether the letter actually reflects positively upon you.

Great to know 🙂. That's awesome. I will just send them to her.

 

[music2doc]

Is that grounds for rejection? I have one professor who is an absolute pragmatic genius, who gave me an A+ in his class and could definitely write the strongest letter ever for me if he wanted. After he submitted mine I made the mistake of asking him if I could see the recommendation letter and he flipped and told me "if you don't trust your recommender you shouldn't ask" and then gave me a diatribe about how when he writes recommendation letters it's hard for him not to be extremely negative about students. Obviously I shouldn't have asked, but this makes me wonder, what happens if you make the mistake of choosing a recommendation letter that is negative about you? Recommendation letters are confidential so you can't see their content, so it's basically guessing and trust. If medical schools get a negative recommendation letter about a student is that grounds for rejection?

I'm probably not going to use this dudes recommendation letter for this reason which is a shame because he's the kind of guy who may have written the most glowing positive and unique tell recommendation letter ever for students and always used to hang out and talk to me after class about stuff that went over most people's heads.

YES! Post-GPA/MCAT, a negative recommendation letter is probably the second fastest way to a rejection only to making comparisons b/w yourself and Hitler (or yourself and Jesus -- pick your poison on extremes). Negative letters say a lot. You should have asked each person whether they could write you a strong letter and left it at that. No need to ask to see your letters. It's a bit rude, really; your professor is right.

Always remember you can send your letter to your premedical adviser and have them read it. They can keep the content of the letter confidential and tell you whether the letter actually reflects positively upon you.

This is a bit of a grey area but if the advisor is comfortable with it, it's not a bad way to go.

 

[terp720]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...endation-letters-remain-confidential.1049154/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-do-med-schools-evaluate-recommendation-letters.1049977/

@Goro 's responses in your previous two threads answered this question for you

There are several types of LOR. One is the glowing "I'd like this student as my own doctor". That's about as good as you can get.
Then there those that are step below that, which tell about how diligent and intelligent the candidate is.

About once a year, I'll see bad LOR. No writer has ever come out and said "this is a bad candidate", but they do list character flaws that scare us, like constantly late; worked poorly in the lab group; was constantly distracted etc.

Committee LORs can be near lethal is they don't give the highest possible recommendation. Typically the scale is 1-5, with 5 being best (or "recommend as outstanding". A 3 or lower will generally get someone wait-listed.

We fully understand that there are lazy faculty who ask the students to write the LORs. Heck, I've had a Faculty colleague want to do that for me when I was up for promotion. I chose not to use her as a reference.

To that end, if all of your LORs are glowing, we note that, and it's a plus.

If you have one bad LOR, that will probably sink you.

Anything in between, will not help or hurt. I've seen LORs from Nobel laureates, but they didn't help a lackluster candidate.

 

[mrh125]

Whoa. You can? I didn't know that.

Wow, what prevents you from having recommendation letters just sent to yourself then? Yes I had to ask.

 

[Pacna]

Wow, what prevents you from having recommendation letters just sent to yourself then? Yes I had to ask.

No, I had the same thought!

 

[mrh125]

No, I had the same thought!

Hahaha or just send to a "friends'"
Email? 😛 great minds think alike

 

[WillburCobb]

Hahaha or just send to a "friends'"
Email? 😛 great minds think alike

I did some research on this. Interfolio doesn't take this lightly and will research to whom the letters were sent if it seems suspicious. They will then send a notification to anyone the letters have or will be sent to about the possible breech of confidentiality.

 

[darklabel]

1. Get a PO Box
2. Send letters there
3. ????
4. Profit

I never cared since all my LoR's showed me the letter before sending it and I think it should be that way. You want people who can strongly vouch for you and I feel that if they're comfortable enough to show you the letter beforehand, then they will definitely write a strong letter. But whatever, just a personal opinion.

 

[Goro]

Yes, a negative LOR can sink you... I've definitely seem them. In your specific case, if the Prof had written about your very poor choice of asking to see the LOR, we'd probably wait list you, given a demonstration of some very poor choice making. However, IF you had a stellar interview, it's possible that it might negate the bad LOR.

It is very rare that we see a bad LOR...I see maybe one a year."



Is that grounds for rejection? I have one professor who is an absolute pragmatic genius, who gave me an A+ in his class and could definitely write the strongest letter ever for me if he wanted. After he submitted mine I made the mistake of asking him if I could see the recommendation letter and he flipped and told me "if you don't trust your recommender you shouldn't ask" and then gave me a diatribe about how when he writes recommendation letters it's hard for him not to be extremely negative about students. Obviously I shouldn't have asked, but this makes me wonder, what happens if you make the mistake of choosing a recommendation letter that is negative about you? Recommendation letters are confidential so you can't see their content, so it's basically guessing and trust. If medical schools get a negative recommendation letter about a student is that grounds for rejection?

*sigh* Because you're supposed to send them to the Admissions Dep't of the schools you're interested in, to your pre-med committee, or to, Interfoloio, NOT to "John Smith".


Wow, what prevents you from having recommendation letters just sent to yourself then? Yes I had to ask.[/QUOTE]

 

[mrh125]

I did some research on this. Interfolio doesn't take this lightly and will research to whom the letters were sent if it seems suspicious. They will then send a notification to anyone the letters have or will be sent to about the possible breech of confidentiality.

Wow that's really overdoing it. These people need to chill out. What's the worst thing that happens if you see your recommendation letters? You don't use a bad one or one that is insulting that leads you to get rejected from your school?

 

[terp720]

Wow that's really overdoing it. These people need to chill out. What's the worst thing that happens if you see your recommendation letters? You don't use a bad one or one that is insulting that leads you to get rejected from your school?

why is that overdoing it? that's the purpose of their company. If they can't ensure letters can be submitted confidentially, why would people use it?
If your professor wants to share the letter with you, he can himself. But if he doesn't, then you just have to respect that he wants to keep it confidential as is requested.

 

[mrh125]

why is that overdoing it? that's the purpose of their company. If they can't ensure letters can be submitted confidentially, why would people use it?
If your professor wants to share the letter with you, he can himself. But if he doesn't, then you just have to respect that he wants to keep it confidential as is requested.

You have a very good point, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of a student who has to spend time trying to choose good recommendation letters, who spends all this money to apply to these schools, and ends up picking a crummy recommendation letter or negative one to be rejected once adcoms see it. That's my biggest concern.

 

[dieanotherday]

I used my letters for all sorts of things even though it says recommends Jane Doe to dental program to become a dentist, I used it as reference letters for jobs in teaching where they require character letters

at my interviews with the school district I was shown my letters which were in my file asking me what prof x, y and z was referring to when they wrote I did such and such project and how would it relate to teaching students

though it was supposed to be confidential, the principal of my school didn't treat it as such during my interviews
in fact they had weird looks on their faces when I told them I wasn't supposed to see it and it was for their eyes only

interviewer at school: "you mean you've never seen this before?"
me: "no"
interviewer: "well do you want to read it?"
me:"....uhhh...sure? I guess?"

 

[DrCharlemagne]

You have a very point, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of a student who has to spend time trying to choose good recommendation letters, who spends all this money to apply to these schools, and ends up picking a crummy recommendation letter or negative one to be rejected once adcoms see it. That's my biggest concern.

This is usually handled by asking your potential letter writer if they could write you a strong letter of recommendation, and then trusting that letter writer to be honest with you.

I believe I had to give my recommenders a form with instructions on where the send the letter and some indication whether I waived my right to see the letter's contents. I know this is the case for my undergrad's LOR service. Are such forms not common?

 

[theseeker4]

This is usually handled by asking your potential letter writer if they could write you a strong letter of recommendation, and then trusting that letter writer to be honest with you.

I believe I had to give my recommenders a form with instructions on where the send the letter and some indication whether I waived my right to see the letter's contents. I know this is the case for my undergrad's LOR service. Are such forms not common?

I had the same thing, I had to waive the right to see the letter, and could have chosen to view the letter if I wanted to. Not sure if it is a state thing, but I was told that by law I had a right to review everything in my application; the fact that I had that right, however, doesn't mean med schools couldn't judge me negatively if I chose to exercise that right, so I waived my right to review.

 

[mrh125]

I used my letters for all sorts of things even though it says recommends Jane Doe to dental program to become a dentist, I used it as reference letters for jobs in teaching where they require character letters

at my interviews with the school district I was shown my letters which were in my file asking me what prof x, y and z was referring to when they wrote I did such and such project and how would it relate to teaching students

though it was supposed to be confidential, the principal of my school didn't treat it as such during my interviews
in fact they had weird looks on their faces when I told them I wasn't supposed to see it and it was for their eyes only

interviewer at school: "you mean you've never seen this before?"
me: "no"
interviewer: "well do you want to read it?"
me:"....uhhh...sure? I guess?"

Wow that's funny. I mean everyone makes a big deal about confidentiality of recommendations and then you get an adcom that's shocked about it. Id definitely write your adcom a recommendation letter 😛

 

[dieanotherday]

Wow that's funny. I mean everyone makes a big deal about confidentiality of recommendations and then you get an adcom that's shocked about it. Id definitely write your adcom a recommendation letter 😛

it wasnt an adcom

I applied to be a teacher at a school district
the principal at the high school I was applying to showed me my letters during my interview

 

[darklabel]

why is that overdoing it? that's the purpose of their company. If they can't ensure letters can be submitted confidentially, why would people use it?
If your professor wants to share the letter with you, he can himself. But if he doesn't, then you just have to respect that he wants to keep it confidential as is requested.

Truthfully, I thought people used the service because you can keep your letters and have multiple copies sent out. AMCAS deletes your letters at the end of the cycle and its annoying to ask each letter writer for a new LOR. Also, AACOMAS forces you to use it (or your school's letter delivering service).

 

[terp720]

idk, we had to use a similar service to get a letter from my pre-health committee.
but yeah storing your letters is helpful, but I would assume it's still implied they are kept confidential if that's what is requested by whoever you're sending them to (med schools in this case)

Truthfully, I thought people used the service because you can keep your letters and have multiple copies sent out. AMCAS deletes your letters at the end of the cycle and its annoying to ask each letter writer for a new LOR. Also, AACOMAS forces you to use it (or your school's letter delivering service).

 

[La Presse]

You need to exercise heavy discretion when you ask for letters and from whom. All my letter writers give me the privilege of seeing my letters beforehand. Incidentally, when I was applying for summer research programs this year, a new reference I started using for extra programs was flabbergasted at the idea of allowing me to preview his/her letter. I thought this was odd, especially since her colleague gave me hard copies of his letters.

H/She then started giving me this BS about how confidential letters were supposed to be sacrosanct. Just for that charade, I will never approach him/her again. Sometimes, I think I should only use letter writers that will let you see the letter after they've written. It's definitely a sign of a strong relationship. However, if you know you are on good terms with them, it's best to follow your heart and believe deep down they won't screw you over. 😛

 

[music2doc]

You have a very good point, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of a student who has to spend time trying to choose good recommendation letters, who spends all this money to apply to these schools, and ends up picking a crummy recommendation letter or negative one to be rejected once adcoms see it. That's my biggest concern.

Frankly, your perspective here is entirely irrelevant. Yes, you need to choose wisely who you ask to recommend you. That doesn't mean you have a right to violate someone else's privacy just to uncover whether or not you made a good decision. Your argument is like saying, "I should get to look at the answer key because I need to get a good grade on this exam."

Let me put this to you straight: if the faculty you interact with are all so borderline in their opinion of you that you're actually afraid of a bad LOR, you need to be a lot more self-aware and work on your relationships with other people. Sure, no one gets along with everyone, but if you can't find at least a couple faculty members who've taught you after 2-4 years at an institution that you know really like you then either you haven't been particularly engaged in your dept or you likely lack the self-awareness to know people's opinions of you (which is also a big problem for medical school). You shouldn't need to read LORs to determine whether or not someone seems to like you. If you believe they like you, ask whether they can write a strong LOR. It's really that simple.

You need to exercise heavy discretion when you ask for letters and from whom. All my letter writers give me the privilege of seeing my letters beforehand. Incidentally, when I was applying for summer research programs this year, a new reference I started using for extra programs was flabbergasted at the idea of allowing me to preview his/her letter. I thought this was odd, especially since her colleague gave me hard copies of his letters.

H/She then started giving me this BS about how confidential letters were supposed to be sacrosanct. Just for that charade, I will never approach him/her again. Sometimes, I think I should only use letter writers that will let you see the letter after they've written. It's definitely a sign of a strong relationship. However, if you know you are on good terms with them, it's best to follow your heart and believe deep down they won't screw you over. 😛

Seriously? Most people who write a confidential letter will keep it confidential. Sure, some might choose to show it to you, but to expect that and not ask in the future just b/c they don't is a bit ungrateful. Sure, if you don't trust them then don't ask, but not showing you their letter means they were able to write it without any consideration for how you would feel about it. That means it may come off more intimate and detailed than it would have had they planned to show you.

 

[nolentem]

My school has our letters sent to the pre-medical advising office of our career services department. I've been told by our pre-medical advisors (that write the committee letter for applications) that if we have many letters/are having difficulty choosing which to include in our application that they can often give us an idea of which of our letters of recommendation were the strongest and that they would recommend that we use.

 

[Quizlet04]

This is why I have been told and tell my students to say to their potential writers, "Do you feel you can give me a strong, positive letter of reference? I understand if you don't feel this is the case." Get it out there!

 

[QuantumJ]

A negative LOR is a great way to be rejected quickly. It was a rookie mistake to ask to read the letter but that's in the past. I can't say whether you should use it or not but if you are questioning it don't. The adcoms wont care if it's some delicate genius prof who's only ever written one letter that's slightly positive and it's yours. Go get the best letter you can.

 

[terp720]

You need to exercise heavy discretion when you ask for letters and from whom. All my letter writers give me the privilege of seeing my letters beforehand. Incidentally, when I was applying for summer research programs this year, a new reference I started using for extra programs was flabbergasted at the idea of allowing me to preview his/her letter. I thought this was odd, especially since her colleague gave me hard copies of his letters.

H/She then started giving me this BS about how confidential letters were supposed to be sacrosanct. Just for that charade, I will never approach him/her again. Sometimes, I think I should only use letter writers that will let you see the letter after they've written. It's definitely a sign of a strong relationship. However, if you know you are on good terms with them, it's best to follow your heart and believe deep down they won't screw you over. 😛

maybe it is a sign of a strong relationship that you know your letter writers will write you a strong LOR and therefore don't need to ask.
Also... why would you ever ask for a letter from someone you aren't on good terms with? You should be on good terms with all of them.

 

[La Presse]

maybe it is a sign of a strong relationship that you know your letter writers will write you a strong LOR and therefore don't need to ask.
Also... why would you ever ask for a letter from someone you aren't on good terms with? You should be on good terms with all of them.

What's that saying about the difficulty of pleasing everyone?

I feel this may be only specific to me, but I tend to be wary of a lot of people I interact with. I feel that many individuals have their own agendas that may not align with my own. I've seen it and tried not to step on toes, but in situations that may be benign to me might be exigent to the receiver. You know what I'm saying?

Better safe than sorry, I always say. I never explicitly ask to read letters, but if I smell a rat, I call the exterminator.

 

[terp720]

What's that saying about the difficulty of pleasing everyone?

I feel this may be only specific to me, but I tend to be wary of a lot of people I interact with. I feel that many individuals have their own agendas that may not align with my own. I've seen it and tried not to step on toes, but in situations that may be benign to me might be exigent to the receiver. You know what I'm saying?

Better safe than sorry, I always say. I never explicitly ask to read letters, but if I smell a rat, I call the exterminator.

assumed when you said this "flabbergasted at the idea of allowing me to preview his/her letter" that that mean you had asked to see it..

anyway, in my experience it would be difficult to find any people to write letters if I only used ones that offered to let me see the letter lol

 

[moisne]

It's very bad to "ask to see a recommendation letter", putting him in an awkward position , especially if he wanted to say no. Several times, my recommended gave me a copy or went over it with me.

One professor, I actually edited the letter and asked him for a new copy. (He wrote too many ideal careers he thinks I should pursue - which I feared would make med schools think I wasn't serious about med school - and we were on great terms).