How can a med school find out if you previously attended a medical school? Those files are confedential and a med school can never find out. So what can happen if you lie on re-application about previously attending a medical school and dropping out? It's better to lie because they have no way of finding out.
What happens if you lie on a med school application about previously attending
- Thread starter michaelmd
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Bad idea.
I am familiar with a situation where a student was dismissed 4th year because one of the lies that he told on his application came to light. Do you really want to spend your entire med school career paranoid that you'll be found out and dismissed? Besides, your AMCAS ID is consistent through the application cycles. If they pull up your AMCAS ID, it will be reflected that you matriculated (if it's a US school in which you previously matriculated).
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njbmd
I guarantee that we can find out if you previously attended a medical school dropped out or not. It's been tried by a few stupid people who quickly found out the extent that we go to check on applicants. While your grades may be confidential, your attendance is not. They even let us know if you left in good standing or not. If you fail to list a school and we run you through the schools registry, that's an automatic dismissal/rejection for fraud. In addition, once you sign your name that the information in your application is true to the best of your knowledge, you have committed fraud which can be prosecuted.
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confidential*
this always confused me....i know it happens that students have gotten kicked out, but i always wonder why such lies aren't caught by the schools earlier, or why they would wait until 4th year to check everything....would you mind sharing what he/she lied about?
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njbmd
We don't wait until 4th year to check but we often wait until you have paid most of your 4 years worth of tuition so you end up not being able to practice and we don't lose as much money on you.
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Have you really done this at your institution?
If so, I find that more unethical than lying on your app.
You could easily fill the seat with a transfer student.
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+1
In this particular case, I was working at a top 10 (at the time) med school in the research lab. A very well known 4th year privately divulged information to a fellow med student about something that he'd lied about on his app. The student he disclosed this information to took it to the dean. They investigated and then expelled him. I don't know what he actually lied about. The deans, administrators, and president of the school sent confidential e-mails to the med school faculty and PI's. The PI's disclosed this information to us researchers. Due to confidentiality, they never disclosed the 'lie'.
that is unbelievable....not only dumb enough to lie on his app but then he talks about it...wow absolutely ridiculous
.....also from above posts, i can't believe the schools actually catch the lies and then wait until years later to expel the student, that just seems so cruel
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How serious of an offense would you have to commit to be thrown out of medical school due to lying/omitting something on your application?
I would have to imagine that there would be very few things that could get you kicked out based on lying on your application that they couldn't verify before the student matriculates.
I would have to imagine that there would be very few things that could get you kicked out based on lying on your application that they couldn't verify before the student matriculates.
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Once they verify it you're gone, especially since you probably have to sign your app verifying everything is true and correct to your knowledge. Why would you be so stupid as to lie on a med school application anyway? I doubt he/she will get into another one after being kicked out.
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Man, I know one chick currently in med school that lied about founding a mentoring org that I certainly wouldn't mind getting the boot in a year or two...
I don't know if that's worthy of dismissal, but the medical community would be a much better place without her.
I don't know if that's worthy of dismissal, but the medical community would be a much better place without her.
Man, I know one chick currently in med school that lied about founding a mentoring org that I certainly wouldn't mind getting the boot in a year or two...
I don't know if that's worthy of dismissal, but the medical community would be a much better place without her.
that is out of control....it is one thing to exaggerate some of the ec's that they were a part of, but to blatantly make up something, it is so ballsy i can't even imagine hah
Yeah, it was really dumb. To this day I wonder what he lied about that warranted his expulsion in his 4th year. That's the thing about lying though... you have to keep up the lies. He was probably talking with a med school buddy in a relaxed setting thinking that they had enough camaraderie to open up. Unlucky for him, they did not. Someone who lives their lives lying can never relax, they can never let loose... because the truth will come out. It sounds exhausting actually.
It's so not worth it.
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That is seriously underhanded 👎. Its not your place to put a person hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt as a punishment.
Does your institution also give patients sugar pills instead of treatment so that when the patient becomes sicker you can then bill for more expensive treatments?
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+3. Open up the slot, take the hit, and hope for a transfer. Lying on your app warrants dismissal, not theft of your money.
it would be awesome if njbmd would come back and comment....i don't know if it will happen though
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njbmd
Oh babies, unknot your knickers, it usually takes a year or two for us to get our legal department into complete investigation mode. By that time, many people are third or fourth year, facing charges and loss of money (tuition) because we don't throw folks out without a complete investigation. Usually the person winds up paying our costs of investigation of this too. Bottom line: you can be kicked out fourth year with no means to practice and facing legal charges of falsification. Those will follow you from place to place. Don't lie in the first place. It gets expensive and it's your doing but our investigation.
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School attendence is not entirely confidential. For example, "The Registrar of XXXX is only able to verbally confirm the name, subject area and date of an earned degree," and www.degreeverify.org .
Don't lie, but at least know what your school's policy is.
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Not even similar to what you implied in your post. Should just say it was tongue in cheek if that's the case.
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I agree 2 wrongs don't make a right.
It is wrong for a student to lie on an application, but I think it is wrong for a school to take 2-3 years of tuition before throwing out a student. I feel like the student should have been confronted with the potential lie, and then asked to leave if he/she couldn't deny it. If denied, then the student should be told an investigation will be done, and if found guilty that he/she will be thrown out and be out all that tuition money...then the student can decide to withdraw or not. But I feel like schools should be able to check things out before the student matriculates...but it's really bad to lie on a med school application in the first place...if you can't get in then improve your application so that you CAN, or go abroad or something.
It is wrong for a student to lie on an application, but I think it is wrong for a school to take 2-3 years of tuition before throwing out a student. I feel like the student should have been confronted with the potential lie, and then asked to leave if he/she couldn't deny it. If denied, then the student should be told an investigation will be done, and if found guilty that he/she will be thrown out and be out all that tuition money...then the student can decide to withdraw or not. But I feel like schools should be able to check things out before the student matriculates...but it's really bad to lie on a med school application in the first place...if you can't get in then improve your application so that you CAN, or go abroad or something.
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Just don't lie! I previously matriculated, reapplied and am at least being interviewed. Take the high road and fix your problems, because it's easier to address your own issues than to deal with a ticking time bomb like that.
If you don't mind sharing... what happened? I'm glad that you are at least being interviewed and still have a chance at your dream, but am curious to know what warranted a dismissal. If you're not comfy sharing that info, I completely understand.
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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=665422
.....his story is in this thread....i read it all lol.....if you don't want to read it all basically nycom has a very strict policy of 2 systems failed = dismissal, and his struggling with anatomy/cadavers brought his 2 system grades to below passing, and he along with a bunch of other students were dismissed
....i figured bones wouldn't mind me sharing since he is rather famous on the pre-osteo and osteo boards....we are all routing for you bones!
thanks for the link! I thought he was dismissed because he lied about something... but I see that he wasn't. That policy sucks. I thought most med schools help struggling students through, not leave you out to dry😱
I wonder what the school you're affiliated with would think of that statement...
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njbmd
They are quite aware of our policy about lying on application materials. As I stated above, we do a thorough investigation of every student who matriculates. In most cases, there are no problems but there have been some that lied about previous medical school attendance and other things. They are dismissed and since we do a thorough investigation, they are subject to criminal prosecution. In short, there is a zero tolerance for lying in these matters.
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So....you lied on your application and your penalty is several years of hard labor and a hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. It's like committing a violent felony AND a while collar crime.
Two great messages in this post:
1. don't lie
2. some schools "rescission" policies are brutal.
Two great messages in this post:
1. don't lie
2. some schools "rescission" policies are brutal.
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a 3 year investigation? sounds worse than a double homicide.
If there is something in your app you think you HAVE to lie about, then you might as well go Caribb. They don't care where you matriculated beforehand and if you work hard, you can still get a decent residency.
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Just FYI, when you apply via AMCAS they automatically report any and all acceptances/matriculations with your re-application, whether you lied about them or not. Med schools and AMCAS do not disclose this, but they all get a report detailing your past med school experiences. Sorry. I agree with the above post, go Carib if you think you have to hide something.
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This sort of case-law would be public record and I find it very hard to believe. Show me a single case where someone was actually prosecuted for lying on a med school app.
NJBMD, what registry are you referring to? There is a national registry of medical students compiled by the AAMC but I am not aware of med schools having access to this for screening purposes. In fact, as I posted elsewhere, I ma currently a 3rd year and I went to discuss my MSPE with my dean of students regarding my previous matric hx and he had no idea.
I don't doubt there is a way for schools to find out michaelMD, so unless you have enough $$ to blow, I would not risk it. In fact, to avoid this Q from coming up again and again. Here is a list of ways to get busted.
1) Financial aid checks your loan hx. Even if you went Carib, the money never lies
2) Your new school checks a registry (elabration here would help NJBMD) and discovers your previous matric
3) A residency program discovers your previous matric when you submit your ERAS application
4) The licensing board of the state your interning discovers your previous matric.
If there are any I missed, please add. I'd rather have this issue done once and for all. Not that you should need reasons to be honest, but hey people are people.
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Just don't lie on your app. We had an undergrad here kicked out for it. Zero tolerance period, the school and the cops sanctioned him.
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Couple things:
1. http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/
2. I can't speak to the Caribbean issue, but for US schools, private loans are WAY harder to get than they were before the economic meltdown. Good luck finding one that a) doesn't require you to certify through your school and b) doesn't require you to have a cosigner.
1. http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/
2. I can't speak to the Caribbean issue, but for US schools, private loans are WAY harder to get than they were before the economic meltdown. Good luck finding one that a) doesn't require you to certify through your school and b) doesn't require you to have a cosigner.
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I know someone who re-applied this year to medical school after leaving an allopathic school in his 2nd or 3rd year. He's actually had success at gaining multiple interviews. He must've lied about previous application, right? Are schools nice about interviewing candidates who previously matriculated? Or does it depend on the circumstances behind leaving that school?
He's a good storyteller...
He's a good storyteller...
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I would be cautious about making assumptions regarding someone lying or not unless you have reasonable proof. You haven't seen his application, and don't know what is on it (or have you?).
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Forget it.
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News flash: There are lots of unethical docs out there. If you have the idea that all doctors are health care angels with their top priority being service and good patient care and high morality. . .well its time to wake up.
Super sleazy. Post #1 definitely implies that you purposefully wait so as to squeeze all the juice out of the orange before tossing it in the trash. And post #2? Give me a break. How does your investigation, no matter how thorough, take "a year or two?" You find out someone lied about attending another school. You make one or two phone calls to confirm that they attended said school. Investigation over. Okay, I understand its a little more complicated than that, but not two years more complicated. And taking "a year or two to get into full investigation mode" is completely unacceptable. If you know there is an issue serious enough that you might kick a student out, get your asses in gear ASAP and address it scumbag.😡
Unless your institution is the VA, in which case I understand, that is the one institution which can make something that should take 2 hours take 2 years.
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Njbmd: I apologize for the scumbag comment. I've been looking at your posts and it seems in general you are a very positive contributor to SDN and probably aren't actually much of a scumbag 
. I still find your institution's practice reprehensible if they truly are milking students they later intend to expel. Maybe you yourself don't really have much to do with that process and are just commenting on what you've seen. I'm going to choose to give you the benefit of the doubt, and apologize again, I don't usually resort to personal attacks.
. I still find your institution's practice reprehensible if they truly are milking students they later intend to expel. Maybe you yourself don't really have much to do with that process and are just commenting on what you've seen. I'm going to choose to give you the benefit of the doubt, and apologize again, I don't usually resort to personal attacks.
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I call B.S. on this one. Prove that your school does any of this? Not only is it unethical, the student would know about the investigation. Also, there is no registry for non-med schools that can be accessed without submitting specific requests, aka. clearinghouse, unless one uses financial aid, which is illegal and incomplete (e.g. never took a loan).
You may not even be an adcom guy.
You may not even be an adcom guy.
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Because sometimes its fun to see what people are worried about and are talking about. I am way out in a rural place right now where the clinic is really slow. I enjoy seeing what folks are concerned about in my field. Not every attending is super busy. I do a lot of pre-med advising work as well and help pre-meds with their essays. Reading this website keeps me in touch with fears and the journeys of students trying to reach the dream. The life on an attending is not all busy - seriously. Depends on where you practice.
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There is a resident from my resdiency who lied about having sanctions against him with regards to his nursing license (he was a nurse in the previous life) Anyhow, when he went to apply for his medical license for that state, their initial inquiry found sanctions/lawsuit he was involved with during his nursing years that wasn't disclosed. As a result of that he was fined many $1000's of dollars in addition to the $2000 is cost to get licensed to practice.
Bottom Line: If you lie, you will get caught eventually.
Bottom Line: If you lie, you will get caught eventually.
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How was that "verified?" Is there a thread which posts a copy of his/her medical license and/or his/her contract at the hospital where s/he is an attending? Just curious.
We've all heard stories on the news about people who actually practice medicine without a medical degree/license - sometimes for a number of years - before they get caught. Usually people who did attend med school, but either dropped or flunked out.
Not saying njbmd is not an attending. But armed with a little knowledge about the subject matter, anyone can be anything they want to be on an anonymous internet forum.
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